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Woodland mills clutch upgrade ??? bigger engine, but what clutch?

Started by mattyo5, February 28, 2016, 07:20:35 PM

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mattyo5

So, lets say, for argument sake, I'd like to have a little more oomph from my WM hm126.  I've sawed quite a few BF with this thing, but I've the tinkering bug. 

So, anyone know what centrifugal clutch is on it stock?   because right now I think its slipping a bit.  the bandwheels stop sometimes and the engine isn't even boggy


2nd thing.  what if I manage to upgrade the motor, to say... 18hp -20hp.   what centrifugal clutch to buy?  I've been spending a PILE of time searching, and a 1" bore 20hp centrifugal clutch seems to be elusive.  what product, from what distributer?   (yes I know cooks mills have a belt engagement etc etc and that I should upgrade to that, but thats WAY more work than my tinker bug is gonna take me right now). 

ideas?  am I just not searching in the right places?

-Mattyo
Woodland Mills HM126 Sawmill - modded
Husqvarna 385xp rebuilt and ported
Husqvarna 372xp rebuilt and ported
2x Husqvarna 350 ...rebuilt and ported
Hitachi CS33etdb top handle saw

losttheplot

My Lumber mate 2000 has a centrifugal clutch.
It is the same clutch 13 up to 23 hp.
When I needed to replace it, I google searched the brand name and part number I think it was rated for around 8 hp.
I ended up getting a replacement from Norwood as it was the most cost effective here in Canada.
The new ones don't have any markings on them.

My clutch will slip if the RPM's drop. I put a tiny tach on it and keep the rpm's up and the clutch does not  slip with a 20hp motor.

DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

fishfighter

Will be watching this thread with interest. ;D Tinkering mines want to know. :D

btulloh

Also curious about this.  I'm wondering if the wheels and such will take more hp.
HM126

mattyo5

Ok...so this is what I've come up with.   I can find the 8hp rated ones no problem. ...for about $80 or so.  But to get one rated at up to 18hp, I'm looking at $300 for a Noram 1800 series....which are not easy to find btw. 

I'm going to call Woodland Mills today and see what they say.  Seems to me there is a gap in the market here somehow. 

SOMEONE has to know what the OEM is in the Norwood, or Woodland Mills or any of the others that use centrifugal clutches.   
Woodland Mills HM126 Sawmill - modded
Husqvarna 385xp rebuilt and ported
Husqvarna 372xp rebuilt and ported
2x Husqvarna 350 ...rebuilt and ported
Hitachi CS33etdb top handle saw

21incher

Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

mattyo5

Again, sorry to the mods.  The links were posted for reference, not for leverage to or for anything/anyone else. 

If anyone else has something add about finding sources for centrifugal clutches for mills I'd love to hear it.

anyone take apart a woodland mills clutch?   I may have to do it asap, as mine is slipping. 
Woodland Mills HM126 Sawmill - modded
Husqvarna 385xp rebuilt and ported
Husqvarna 372xp rebuilt and ported
2x Husqvarna 350 ...rebuilt and ported
Hitachi CS33etdb top handle saw

mattyo5

So my summation post got deleted.  I will repost w/o ebay links.  So far, I have come up with the Hillard Extreme duty available from:

http://www.mfgsupply.com/gomini/gominiclutch/gominiclutchutility/gominiclutchutilityhilliard/h1p3.html

rated to 13hp, 1" shaft.  For $69, seems the one to get.   $80 for the one from Woodland Mills, and they said theirs IS rated for their 9.5hp engine. 

If I want to go bigger, then there is one on ebay, search for 24hp centrifugal clutch.   its blue.  $199+ship. 

or an 18hp rated one which is made by Noram, 1800 series.  https://www.jsesc.com/catalog/product.aspx?CODE=NOR180007

If anyone has anything else I'm all ears.   Thanks!
Woodland Mills HM126 Sawmill - modded
Husqvarna 385xp rebuilt and ported
Husqvarna 372xp rebuilt and ported
2x Husqvarna 350 ...rebuilt and ported
Hitachi CS33etdb top handle saw

NeilB

Hi Mattyo5,

If the blade or band wheels are stopping/slowing down during the cut, but the engine is still at full RPM, there is a good chance your drive belt is loose or worn. You may want to just take a quick look at it firstly and either tighten it or replace it. If the belt isn't tight and it starts slipping on the clutch, you can wear out a belt (possibly the clutch) quite quickly. Just something you may want to look at first...

Neil
Neil B
Woodland Mills

mattyo5

Good point.  It is quite worn.  I'll replace it, then see if I still have the issue. 

I have an extra couple of belts for the single bandwheel, somehow I bought bx58.   too big.  bx57 is what I want right?   I have bx77 for the drivewheel.
Woodland Mills HM126 Sawmill - modded
Husqvarna 385xp rebuilt and ported
Husqvarna 372xp rebuilt and ported
2x Husqvarna 350 ...rebuilt and ported
Hitachi CS33etdb top handle saw

NeilB

The BX77 is the drive belt for sawmills before 2015. BX58 is the right size, but a BX57 will fit, it's just tight to get on. It would be the BX77 drive belt that would cause you the most grief regarding the blade slowing down, but the other one is important to check for wear also...
Neil B
Woodland Mills

mattyo5

The bx58 that I have is WAY too loose.  I'll get a 57 and see what happens.  Thanks

the bandwheel measures 18.75" across btw...  18.75x3.14 gives an circumference of 58.75"   a bx57 belt has an outer circumference of 60" and a 58 has 61" ... 

I'm not exactly sure of how belts are measured, but for sure the bx58 is too loose on the bandwheel. 
Woodland Mills HM126 Sawmill - modded
Husqvarna 385xp rebuilt and ported
Husqvarna 372xp rebuilt and ported
2x Husqvarna 350 ...rebuilt and ported
Hitachi CS33etdb top handle saw

NeilB

Yes, the BX58 will run loose, but will not cause any issues. Using a BX57 or BX58 is fine.
Neil B
Woodland Mills

btulloh

NeilB - Do you see any problems with adding more hp to the hm126?
HM126

NeilB

I know others have done it and not had issues in doing so. We have not tested a larger engine on this saw head ourselves, so I couldn't give you direct advice on doing so. You may be able to ask one of the Woodland Mills owners on the forum who have done it to see what their experience has been though...
Neil B
Woodland Mills

mattyo5

Out of shear curiosity, do you have any experience glueing a belt to the bandwheel.... like say with super77 , or contact cement? 
Woodland Mills HM126 Sawmill - modded
Husqvarna 385xp rebuilt and ported
Husqvarna 372xp rebuilt and ported
2x Husqvarna 350 ...rebuilt and ported
Hitachi CS33etdb top handle saw

47sawdust

Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Magicman

Quote from: mattyo5 on March 03, 2016, 05:53:32 PM
Out of shear curiosity, do you have any experience glueing a belt to the bandwheel.... like say with super77 , or contact cement?
I am curious as to why you would ask.  See Reply #12 above, and as just mentioned; WM runs loose belts.   ???
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

mattyo5

I have crazy random thoughts, thats all.  seems silly to have a loose belt.  the original one isn't that loose.  but whatever, i'll post my results when I get the mill fixed up. 
Woodland Mills HM126 Sawmill - modded
Husqvarna 385xp rebuilt and ported
Husqvarna 372xp rebuilt and ported
2x Husqvarna 350 ...rebuilt and ported
Hitachi CS33etdb top handle saw

btulloh

The belt on the non-drive wheel runs loose by design.  It helps keep sawdust off the blade and bandwheel.  This is referenced in the 126 owners manual.
HM126

btulloh

Check the drive belt tension on regular basis.  It's easy (for me) to overlook.  New belts will stretch initially and then settle in and run for a while.  The original belt stretched pretty fast and I didn't notice until in started slipping.  Slipping makes the belt fail a lot quicker.  By the time it starts slipping, you've already been running too loose for a while.  These clutches hold up pretty well and I would think it's the last thing to cause slippage.   The drive belt will build up sawdust which also causes slippage and vibration. 

On an unrelated subject, the throttle cable will stretch and gradually reduce max rpm's.  It's easy to miss (initially for me anyway).  Losing rpm's with a 9.5 hp mill is not useful.  Grab the throttle lever on the engine when you have the handle fully depressed and see you can make the engine speed up.  If so, the throttle cable needs to be adjusted. 
HM126

mattyo5

Woodland Mills HM126 Sawmill - modded
Husqvarna 385xp rebuilt and ported
Husqvarna 372xp rebuilt and ported
2x Husqvarna 350 ...rebuilt and ported
Hitachi CS33etdb top handle saw

SpyderGreen

My experience with the HM 126 so far...

The stock clutch is horrible. I burnt through the one that came with the mill cutting some pine. Wore the clutch pads out, went metal to metal and the clutch was slipping. I realized this only when at full throttle, I could barely run the blade through the log.

Contacted Woodland Mills and customer service was great. Figure it was the clutch and they sent a replacement one since it was still under warranty.

Problem solved? Nope.

The same outcome. Clutch wore down to metal in less time than the first. Figure it was inferior clutch assembly that Woodland Mills contracted.

On my quest to fine a better clutch, I came across the Hilliard Extreme Duty Clutch...for go-carts of all things. There were some fancier clutch, but for the price and application, the Hilliard clutches were the perfect fit.

Get the one with the bearings and not the bushings. I got mine from northern tool Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company, by no means I am endorsing them...it was the only place I could get a hold of one. Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200415729_200415729

And no...
I did change the belts, all of them.
Adjust the tension, and the RPMs of the motor. I got a tach for the engine and idle it back to like 900 RPMs, but the stock clutch kept on ringing like a bell, sign that the clutch was engaging and causing premature wear.

So far so good. I've only saw a few 6x6s and 2x6s for a barn build, but I'm not having the same clutch engaging issue. Instead of traditional springs, Hilliard clutches use different style springs and seem to have better results. Spec PDF
http://www.northerntool.com/images/downloads/manuals/233517.pdf

And if you are going to change the clutch...be prepared to do some work. Definitely get a set of bearing pullers. The best way to get access to the clutch is to take the engine completely off. If you leave it on, you have to pretty much disassemble the head unit to gain access to the pulley. Trust me, take off the four mounting bolts and take the engine off the mill.

When you go back to putting the engine back on, I would leave that stupid clutch guard off...that's the reason why you have to take the engine out in the first place.

Other than that, the mill is still cutting good.
Woodland Mills HM-126
MX5100, KX121-3, Old Dump Truck

fishfighter

Green

About how many board foot you sawed when the clutch went out? With my 126, I done went thru around 30 blades which I get about 500 bf per blade, sometimes more. Mostly oak. My clutch is still good.

goose63

SpiderGreen

Thank you for that info after 3 years mine locked up Sunday the blade keep's turning when I idle down  I can still cut with it just keep finger's away

Called Lori yesterday new one is on the way at no charge
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

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