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Author Topic: Sticker Co-op .......  (Read 6628 times)

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Offline TexasTimbers

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Sticker Co-op .......
« on: March 11, 2006, 05:56:16 PM »
It's probably a dumb idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there anywho. Say if 20 of us bought 10,000 each or 50 of us smaller time types wanted to get a couple thousand each I wonder if the price break would make them more affordable. Some of those man-made ones that last for eons. Anyone ever checked in to that?
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Offline Dan_Shade

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2006, 06:06:37 PM »
I'd be game for that.  I never have enough stickers :(  of course it depends on my funds at the moment and how much they are!

(I was rich before I bought a house :) )
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Offline getoverit

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2006, 09:05:12 PM »
I'm interested in a couple of thousand of them if the price is right.

I went to a box store last week, and checked out the 3/4" square by 48" grade stakes.... they wanted $.97 each for them..... ouch!

There has to be a better way! Count me in!
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

Offline Radar67

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2006, 09:12:05 PM »
Kevjay, have you considered a company yet?

Breeze-Dried is one http://www.breezedried.com/contactus.html

And another is Greenwood http://www.kilnstickers.com/contact.asp

Don't know how much they charge or where the price break might be as they are selling to hugh operations. Guess someone could check into it and see what kind of deal could be made.

Stew
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Offline DanG

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2006, 11:05:07 PM »
Ain't you guys got sawmills? ??? ::)  Whenever I'm cutting 1x material and get to where there ain't a whole board to cut, I just cut 1x1 strips.  I throw'em into a little trough affair with slots cut at sticker-length intervals, and cut them up with the chainsaw when it's full.  This yields anywhere from 40 to 100 stickers at a time, along with a bit of kindling wood. :)
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Offline TexasTimbers

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2006, 11:12:32 PM »
I don't know why but my stickers are never consistent. Besides, you persiflaged me. We was talking about buying stickers like any self-respecting lazy sawyer and you go and start talking about ..... MAKING  them! ;D
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Offline Radar67

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2006, 11:29:07 PM »
I've been making them to sell, and IMO if the price is right, it would save money to buy them. My material cost is 10 each, add in my time and the cost goes up. I figure I have a quarter tied up in each one. And that's not including maintenance on the mill and blades.

Stew
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Offline chet

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2006, 12:50:52 AM »
I'm with ya DanG.   :)   Dar ain't not way I'm payin' some udder dude ta saw me some stickers when I gotta mill. Not ta mention tryin' ta explain it ta da wife.  :o
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

Offline oakiemac

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2006, 08:13:08 AM »
If you cut them on your mill then you should kiln dry them before use and use a species like hard maple that will minimize any stain.
I bought a bunch from Breeze Dry (could use more) because they are fluted and minimize any stain. I could of sawed a bunch of hard maple but it seems to take forever on the mill then dried them then ran them through a router or shaper to get the shape need but by time you do all that it is cheaper to buy them.
If you are using them green off the mill then the color can leach into your lumber. Might not be a problem with darker woods but for woods like maple or aspen I do everything I can to keep the color as white as possible. That sticker stain goes real deep into the wood and often can't be planed out.
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Offline Radar67

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2006, 09:18:32 AM »
Oakiemac,  what did the stickers cost you?

Stew
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If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

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Offline TexasTimbers

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2006, 12:02:48 PM »
In truth I don't have enough experience to know what side I'll eventually land on. In a year or two I may be thiking it's rediculous to buy them. But as for now I know I don't want to spend any more of my time cutting stickers that I'm not happy with. Even if I could get them consistently the same dimensions (and my tolerances may be unreasonably strict) and be satisfied I still have too much to do. Everytime I cut them I have this feeling that I'm wasting my time when I could judt pick up the phone or get online and place an order.
It would be a HUGE help if I could just buy several thousand no matter if it costs me more in money. I wouldn't be buying stickers - I would be buying time in the form of stickers. Heck I'm skipping church today just to catch up around the house. Thankfully Salvation isn't dependent on attendance. But I digress.
Anyway, for those interested - I will do some price checking. If any of y'all already have some research done feel free to share it too.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Offline TexasTimbers

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2006, 12:25:41 PM »
I know this thing is still way up in the air but I thought I should get it out there now that if we do actually put a deal together I think we should add 5% to the total cost and donate it to the FF.
I just think everyone ought to know that going in.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Offline Brad_S.

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2006, 12:49:01 PM »
I've found that taking the cull boards that no one seems to want to buy, planing them to a uniform thickness after they are dry, cutting them to length then ripping them on the mill will get me a pretty good supply of stickers fairly quickly.  A two sided planer really speeds up the process, but even a single sided surfacer run at top speed goes through a pile rather quickly.
Yes, it takes time, but I think of it as paying myself. If I had used that time to saw an order, I would just turn around and payout that same money to buy the stickers and be no further ahead than if I had done it myself, plus I got rid of some marginal lumber that was tying up space and assets. Admittedly, it is not an enjoyable process, and if you want to sub it out for that reason, then thats a whole different ball of wax! :D
On occasions where customers want to buy stickers, I send them to another guy who is better set up for the process (he makes them for Ballie Lumber, a large milling/drying operation). One customer reported back that bought straight, unprofiled 1"x1.25"x4' stickers for 30 each, it would probably be less for large quantities.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Offline Coon

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2006, 01:17:11 PM »
When I am milling lumber there is always a mix of 1 and 2 inch material being sawn.  When we edge the 1 inch material we take those edgings that won't make a full board and run them through the edger again using the narrow blade span on the edger.  Keep in mind I have a multi blade edger that we built that has fixed blade widths.  We had the room on the arbor for a 1 1/2 space between the outter 2 blades on the right hand side of the infeed. So needless to say we just re-edge the pieces as we are sawing and place these strips of sticker material into a bunk that is marked for sticker lengths and use the chainsaw for bucking to length.  Another thing we do is ONLY use aspen stickers w/aspen lumber and spruce stickers for spruce lumber.  Seems to minimize the sticker stain for us with any species we have tried w/ white birch being the exception.  For white birch we still use white birch stickers but we have to use ONLY dry birch stickers.
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Offline oakiemac

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2006, 03:02:40 PM »
If I remember right the profiled or fluted stickers cost $.48/sticker.  These are the Breeze dried ones-I had to go up to Canada to get them but it was near Niagra Falls so I took the wife and made a good weekend out of it.
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Offline flip

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2006, 04:11:20 PM »
I've been kicking this around for some time now.  We have a plant behind us that does plastic and fubber molding, maching and extruding.  Have you ever seen the Dura-Sticks?  I can get an extrusion mold made for about $500.00 and have as many made as I want.  The cost per 4 foot unit is about .40.  I threw tis out on WW a couple years ago and kinda got laughed off so it went to the back burner.  If I knew I could get em marketed and have some good outlets on a consistant basis I'd do it.  It's not really worth the trouble just for me, I got a ton of wood stickers from a local plant, I'll never run out.

Flip
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Offline TexasTimbers

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2006, 08:52:20 AM »
What;'t the minimum than you need to get made or that makes sense. This is something I wanted to look into also but seems you've already done it. That seems quite reasonable price wise. I'd be willing to participate. Anyone else?

If 10 of us bought 5000 stickers each it would cost each of us roughly $2200 - 2300 after tax/shipping/mold cost/FF%

Even if it got up to $2500 because maybe shipping is more that I figure, that is 10,000 24" stickers or 20,000 12" stickers that will last, what, thousands of cycles? How long does it take to cut 5000 4' stickers out of a wood that will not yield 100% and will not last but a few years? I know you more proficient ones could cut them in a day but it would take me all week on my manula mill and I have crap for product. What am I missing here.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Offline flip

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2006, 05:14:21 PM »
I believe there are price breaks depending on how many hundred pounds of material I buy from them, what composition(different uv additives, flexor additives, pigments etc..)  I havn't talked to em for about a year so I better call and check current prices.

Flip
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Offline getoverit

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2006, 08:50:12 PM »
I actually looked into this a while back myself. I contacted a plastics extruder company, gave them a rough drawing of what I wanted, and never heard from them again. I didnt tell them what I was using them for, but I did tell them that there was 3 requirements for the material they used:

1. It had to have a load bearing  rating of 50lbs/sqin
2. it could not leech any oils or pigments
3. it had to withstand temperatures (under the load bearing of #1 above) of 200F

I actually suggested making a 3/4" square , filled with styrofoam, and on the square having 1/8" "wings" on all 4 corners so that there would be room for air movement. The wood would only touch the 1/8" wings, so the chances of sticker stain would be greatly reduced.

I didnt even think about UV additives, but that is an excellent idea. I had calculated the weight load based on a stack of 1" hickory wood that was stacked and stickered 8 feet tall, then added 20% more just in case. You have to figure that the sticker could be the bottom one on the pile, and would hold up all of the weight of the entire stack of lumber (wet).

I doubt I would ever use 5000 of them, but a couple of thousand would be nice to have on hand. I had also figured I could sell them to customers when I do custom cutting jobs. If it is a special tree that is being milled, the customer would rather spend the money to have what it takes to dry it perperly than to waste the wood they are cutting to make stickers.

If someone wants to check into this, I'm game for a couple of thousand of them...if the price is reasonable.
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

Offline flip

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Re: Sticker Co-op .......
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2006, 09:54:22 AM »
They will have to act just like a wood sticker.  Must flex and bend some and not break when -10 degrees.  I think an I- beam type design would work great but I must look at the Dura stick and make sure the design I have in mind won't infringe on their patent.

Flip
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