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Black Cherry

Started by Pete and Jesse, September 10, 2019, 03:50:18 PM

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Pete and Jesse

I have 1500 bf of black cherry logs that were cut in March. Can they be used for anything besides firewood. DBH is between 20-25".

doc henderson

throw them on a mill and see what you got.  are they solid?  
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Pete and Jesse

Yes they are solid. Any suggestions on length/thickness of boards. Just measured one and it is 19" at end of 50' log.

Resonator

Few tips from my experience with Black Cherry:
Buck the logs to straight lengths (cut long as manageable), Anchor Seal the ends.
Saw 4/4 boards as wide as possible, box the pith, and edge the boards to remove as much sapwood as possible.
After drying plan to re-rip boards to straighten any split, crook, cup, bow, etc.
Black Cherry likes to dry fast, which can be bad because it causes defects, but good for air drying to get MC down.
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

YellowHammer

Cherry is a high value wood.  Trim the sap off and cut them.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Woodpecker52

The heartwood stays good forever don't waste them as firewood.  They are a great wood used for smoking meat.  I have a kitchen table I made of cherry years ago still beautiful, I think I used a linseed finish.  A definite good wood to sell.
Woodmizer LT-15, Ross Pony #1 planner, Ford 2600 tractor, Stihl chainsaws, Kubota rtv900 Kubota L3830F tractor

WV Sawmiller

   I cut them into 4/4 boards and 8/4 live edge slabs. If you have a real sharp curve cut on both side of it and make a set of curved benches. I had a good sized butt log with a lot of sweep so I cut it into 3" thick live edge slabs for fireplace mantels then I squared off the back so I had a curved, live edge front about a foot wide in the middle and 7-8 inches on each end and sold a pair of them to a guy with 2 fireplaces who fell in love with them. Save your short boards for cutting boards. People like to cut them into narrow strips and alternate the dark red color with white like ash or maple and dark brown from walnut. So yes, save them from becoming firewood.


 These are oak but an example of what you can do with curved pieces.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

Turn the logs so that when you "saw through" you are sawing parallel to the pith check, otherwise every board in the center will split and look like a banana peel.


 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Pete and Jesse

Quote from: Resonator on September 10, 2019, 05:43:35 PM
Black Cherry likes to dry fast, which can be bad because it causes defects, but good for air drying to get MC down.
Would it be best to dry this in the hay mow or greenhouse?

YellowHammer

It's best to dry stickered cherry in an unsided shed, no sun, no rain, very little wind.
Put another stack of wood on top as weight or the top few layers will bow badly.  Saw it as @Magicman says, isolate the pith check.  Remove the sapwood as much as possible. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Brad_bb

I'll reiterate, trim the sapwood (the white part) of the boards.  It tends to pull boards into potato chips as it dries and shrinks much faster than the heartwood. 

You could make 4/4 boards (rough saw 1.125 thick), or 5/4 boards (1.375 thick).  
You could make beams.  I mill cherry beams 1/2 inch oversize and plane them later.  I mill cherry live edge branches 1 inch oversize as they will move more drying.

You could cut slabs 1.75, or 2.25 thick without removing the sapwood (for table tops later).  

Often Cherry will have curl - curly grain, which is really nice.  You're likely to have some in that pile.



 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Resonator

x2 what Mr. YellowHammer said. (He knows way more about lumber making than I do). smiley_thumbsup
I wouldn't stack green lumber in a green house unless its converted into a solar kiln. The other thing I'll add is after drying and planing, I spread the boards out inside a building. After a while the top board face gets more light and air, and gains a much richer, darker reddish color than the bottom face. This is the side I present when selling. $ ;D $
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

Chuck White

Good ventilation and no sun are key to storing and drying lumber!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Pete and Jesse

Quote from: YellowHammer on September 10, 2019, 08:02:57 PM
It's best to dry stickered cherry in an unsided shed, no sun, no rain, very little wind.
How large of a shed will it take to dry 1500-2000 bf?  Would it be ok in my haymow, or should it be outside?

Pete and Jesse

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 10, 2019, 06:32:20 PM
  I cut them into 4/4 boards and 8/4 live edge slabs. If you have a real sharp curve cut on both side of it and make a set of curved benches. I had a good sized butt log with a lot of sweep so I cut it into 3" thick live edge slabs for fireplace mantels then I squared off the back so I had a curved, live edge front about a foot wide in the middle and 7-8 inches on each end and sold a pair of them to a guy with 2 fireplaces who fell in love with them. Save your short boards for cutting boards. People like to cut them into narrow strips and alternate the dark red color with white like ash or maple and dark brown from walnut. So yes, save them from becoming firewood.
<br
I never seriously thought about getting into wood working, but so many ideas.

Pete and Jesse

Quote from: Brad_bb on September 10, 2019, 08:59:21 PM
I'll reiterate, trim the sapwood (the white part) of the boards.  It tends to pull boards into potato chips as it dries and shrinks much faster than the heartwood.

You could make 4/4 boards (rough saw 1.125 thick), or 5/4 boards (1.375 thick).  
You could make beams.  I mill cherry beams 1/2 inch oversize and plane them later.  I mill cherry live edge branches 1 inch oversize as they will move more drying.

You could cut slabs 1.75, or 2.25 thick without removing the sapwood (for table tops later).  






What do you do with cherry beams? 
I have seen oak beams move in many directions after several years in a house.

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: Pete and Jesse on September 11, 2019, 07:54:15 AM
Quote from: YellowHammer on September 10, 2019, 08:02:57 PM
It's best to dry stickered cherry in an unsided shed, no sun, no rain, very little wind.
How large of a shed will it take to dry 1500-2000 bf?  Would it be ok in my haymow, or should it be outside?
To help visualize 1,000 bf think of a 5X10 utility trailer stacked tight 20" high or 20 rows/layers of 1" boards. So if you have 2,000 bf you'd have 2 trailer loads. Double the height when you add 1" stickers between the rows. Less height if 8/4 lumber.

   I find people can visualize a utility trailer load of wood easier than any other way.

Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Tom the Sawyer

Pete and Jesse,

Generally, a stickered stack of 8', 4/4 boards, with layers 4' deep; 1000 bf will be about 5' tall.  Add your foundation height.  And at 16" spacing, you'll need about 230 stickers.
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

moodnacreek

Quote from: Magicman on September 10, 2019, 07:00:10 PM
Turn the logs so that when you "saw through" you are sawing parallel to the pith check, otherwise every board in the center will split and look like a banana peel.



Is this woodmiser language?  I have been sawing since 1980 and don't understand this advise.

WV Sawmiller

   Sounded clear to me and certainly what I try to do.I understood it as Pith check/heart check being the normal crack found in many if not most hardwoods and certainly in cherry and by placing the cant so you are sawing parallel when sawing through the cant to make finished boards the boards will not have the crack in them while if the crack is vertical it will show up in every board.

   BYW - I bet you have done this for years but maybe called it by different terms.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

doc henderson

look back at the pic in reply 8 by MM, the blade is parallel to the crack in the center of the tree.  it might ruin a board or two, but not 8 boards if you had rotated the log 90°
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Magicman

Nothing Wood-Mizer about it.  Every Cherry log that I have ever sawn has had a "natural" pith check.  Saw vertical to it and every board toward the pith will split apart, sometimes before you can remove it from the sawmill.  Saw horizontal to it and the pith check will be contained within a couple of the center boards.  I have seen the pith check run nearly to the bark and the opening and third face boards split.

Here is an example of one and how I set it up to be sawn:  LINK

Scroll down to Reply #11 in the attached link for another example.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Don P

Another case of taking bow over crook.
Cherry beams can also move considerably as they dry but can be interesting and cherry often forks and has some neat curves. This is one idea I mean to get back to, some naturally braced posts. I was in a honey hole of locust a week or so ago getting firewood, old pasture, and it is also full of nicely forked cherry.


 

Larry

Sawing parallel to the pith crack definitely results in the highest recovery of wide boards. Unfortunately as one gets closer to the heart, the boards have flat sawn, rift sawn, and quarter sawn grain all in the same board. There is a special name for those boards.

Saw with the pith crack at 45 degrees and it edges out. Takes more time. The boards won't be as wide, but the grain will be consistent flat sawn with a centered cathedral grain pattern.  

I saw both ways, but always get the most pleasing grain patterns out of big logs the second way.  Quality or quantity?

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

moodnacreek

M.M. , You certainly have your own language to describe log sawing. For at least 100 years terms like heart, heart center and tapering have been used in books describing hardwood grade sawing. Most hardwood and spruce logs that I saw have a big check and get turned to try to get as much of the defect in the last board or cant as possible. Your banana peel warning, what is this? Do you mean from not tapering?

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