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Staying Busy and out of trouble, 2020-21?.

Started by Old Greenhorn, May 17, 2020, 09:40:32 AM

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Old Greenhorn

Well, as promised, I am closing out the thread the precedes this one The Greenhorns' Initial Sawing season 2019-20 because it has grown to 20 pages and that is more than enough. I had thought to end it there, but some have mentioned that like reading of my mis-adventures from time to time, and I confess I enjoy writing about them most times. It also allows me to go back and relive my mistakes or remember how I did something or watch the growth and changes in direction. Very often we forget where we started or notice the progress we have made. Always an issue for me.
 I chose today to make the jump to a new thread because it is a special day of sorts, for me anyway. Today is Norwegian Constitution day. (You can refer to that whole conversation in the previous thread, on this same date last year.) Coincidentally this is also my birthday as a few of you have already made note of in PM's (Thank You). Being my 65th means I am finally of legal retirement age and most of you know I am actively pursuing that option. ;D It's not so much that I need to retire, but that I need to get out of the corporate world and get my head straight. (We explored this in the waning pages of the previous thread also.)

 So without much more blathering, in so far as is possible...

 Yesterday was a lovely day so I mixed it up. I ripped some square edges on some oak slabs and an Ash piece, Thought I would try a glue-up and see if I could get the edges flat enough to take with just the table saw and hand planer (no jointer here yet). So I set about doing that.



 

It sits drying up now and I will go un-clamp it in a little while. Then I wanted to get outside, and the mill area never did get set up for a proper work flow last fall when I hastily moved it behind the shop. Piles of slabs building up and in the wrong place, a poorly located workbench, and a general mess. It was a lot of work, so I started tackling that. I cut up all the pine slabs and filtches in the junk pile and made a stack of campfire wood, the hardwood I loaded into a garden trailer to get stacked in the firewood pile for either the house or shop. (I have to clean or clear those areas soon too.) Then I moved the bench along the fence to open the work area up a bit, I trimmed some low hanging branches and laid down a 6" pine that was growing all wrong, not healthy, crowded in and generally in the way. It was heavy work with a lot of slabs to cut and stack, but the junk pile is gone. Hopefully now I can keep up with it as I mill. Today I will be cutting up the usable slabs into working sizes which will generate more firewood. I am trying to figure out how I want to gain access across the little drainage creek into the swamp area. I might build a bridge, but need more logs. It would only be 12' long and about 7' wide, but I would like to put 10x10's under it (x3) to handle anything I might drive over it. I will keep thinking on that. I came in the house a couple of times during the day to sit and rest my back and watch the cats try to figure out what they thought of the new screen door that gives them an upfront seat to watch the chipmunks run back and forth. Apparently one of them could not contain himself and charged out after 'something' then turned and realized he was locked outside. My wife heard some banging and came to find him 'knocking' on the door to get back inside. :D So I had to put a hook and eye on the door to helps prevent that. They are really enjoying it and have even managed to sit peacefully next to each other and enjoy the view which is new for them.


 
 They are both very competitive, so this is a nice change.

After dinner, I started a little campfire and just loafed. The Grandson's stopped by to see if they could talk me into fishing today, but I declined. Too much to do now that the weather is breaking.
 Speaking of which, I had best get to it. Here goes nothing.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Ljohnsaw

 :P Will be following along on your adventure!

Nice oak slabs, there. 6/4 or 8/4?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Nebraska

Glad to see the new start. Happy Birthdy and many more.

doc henderson

I know you will stay busy, not so sure about the trouble... :D  congrats on birthday and retirement.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

thecfarm

Just about to till the garden, if I can get the tiller going. We was doing the no till for 2 years. So the tiller has not been started for a while. Probably a load of rocks will be hauled into the woods road. Than a few load of branches. That should bring me into night fall.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Hilltop366

Not sure how someone can stay busy and out of trouble at the same time, maybe it could be staying busy or out of trouble.   ;D

samandothers

Sounds like a busy birthday!  It is your day do whatcha want!  Another happy birthday wish, birthdays are good to have!  I mentioned in another thread you share the birthday with my daughter, though the year is off by ..... 37.  Hope you get to do the things you wanna do and do them safely.

WV Sawmiller

   Happy birthday from WV too. Did you ever come up with a name for your business yet? I'm with the others on the "staying out of trouble." I suspect that us largely wishful thinking.

   I'm still thinking something like "Old Noggies Wood Noodle factory" or  such for a name. :D
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on May 17, 2020, 02:11:35 PM
  Happy birthday from WV too. Did you ever come up with a name for your business yet? I'm with the others on the "staying out of trouble." I suspect that us largely wishful thinking.

  I'm still thinking something like "Old Noggies Wood Noodle factory" or  such for a name. :D
Here's a hint:


 
The county offices have been closed for 2 months now so I can't make it legal yet but as soon as they reopen I will get the paperwork done.
As far as staying out of trouble while staying busy, I suppose I could settle for doing them consecutively, if not concurrently.  ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

thecfarm

The tiller started. Took 6-7-8 pulls but it came to life. Just came in for a late supper.  Had to take down a support for the dill, clean up the garden some. 
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

sawguy21

I'm staying out of trouble but it s incearisingly difficult. Too many distractions.

old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

WV Sawmiller

  Oh yeah - I almost forgot. Happy Constitution Day. Hope you remembered to wear your little shiny buckle shoes and your little knife.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Old Greenhorn

Well I did in fact stay out of trouble AND got some work done today. SO that makes 1 in a row! ;D
I did some chores so the wife wouldn't yell at me, then went and checked on the glue-up, it is 8/4 by the way. Looked good, so I removed the clamp and flipped it. There were just a few teeny holes where the glue did not make it, so I put a bubble on those spot and left that to dry. Then I walked around the mill for a while working out what to do to increase my work area or make it more usable. I have little drainage creek running through the property, it keeps things wet most of the year. It is mostly parallel to the mill and about 30-40 feet away and sort of cuts off part of my yard. That part is very wet almost all year because of the high water table and I would love to add some fill and bring the level up, but I would need an awful lot of fill!  So over the years, I have taken a few trees that died for firewood, but no much else has been done with it. I could put in drying racks, up on stilts, or at the very least pile my junk waste out there to help fill it in. But there is a barrier of little trees dead stuff and it is pretty inaccessible. So today was the day to start at least cutting out the garbage brush and dead stuff so that I can walk through there. I did not take any before photos, I should have but didn't think I would be doing as much as I wound up doing. It is hard to tell in these 2 photos, but if you can see where the creek is, just to the other side I took out about 30 stems, trimmed lots of branches, and did general cleanup up. I still have more to do and a few diseased or damaged trees that have to come down, but it is opening up. I hope this cuts down on the mosquitoes and lets it dry up quicker. I laid all the branches out as matting so I can at least walk across them.



 

It's a good start anyway, Took most of the day.


 

In the middle of all this I got a text from a good friend asking if I was relaxing and enjoying my birthday. I sent him back a text that said "OH Yeah, I even have my party clothes on" with the attached photo:


 

He just sent back a note saying that he should have known. ;D

Once I had all that cleaned up I went back in the shop and planed out the bottom of the center section on that slab glue-up. Then sanded it to level and match. The wife bought me a new 4x24 belt sander for my birthday and it rips pretty good, but MAN it throws dust. Gonna have to add a vacuum to it.


 
 
Tomorrow I should get to the other side, rain is coming in, so it's a shop day.
 Yes, it was a good day, thanks for all the good wishes.
 CFarm glad you got some stuff done too. I bet everyone was out trying to catch up or get ahead today. Pretty decent weather is this region anyway.

WV you can see in the prior photo what I was wearing. I don't even own a bunad, but I did have a knife on my belt, as usual. ;D :D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Old Greenhorn

OK, so now I am soliciting opinions. I did some more work on that glued up slab today, sanded both sides flat, trimmed the ends, did the smoothing and shaping sanding, then poured a little epoxy in one knot hole and a few tiny imperfections so it all finished up smooth. I set that on the side to cure.


 
 Then I started thinking about legs and I wanted to make something different (for me) and lighter and not so clubby looking. I wasted the better part of the day planing wood and working on some legs at a 2.5° angle in both directions. No matter what I did, it didn't look right and kept getting too complicated. So I trashed that idea and made a simple frame with 4 legs about 1-1/2" square. Here are the parts just laid out.


 
 Obviously that is upside down. My plan is to cut a half lap on the tops of the legs for the frame to rest on. Then put one screw in for each frame piece into the legs and glue everything when it is assembled. I will then have a frame. I will put 4 blocks screwed to the under side of the table that will square the top up on the frame. I could leave it that way so it is easy to lift the top off to move it, or secure it with a few screws. The frame is white oak and the legs are RO.
 So my stupid question #1 is, can I just glue this whole thing, or are screws more the way to go along with the gluing?
 Should I plan on screwing it to the bottom straps, or is a removable top more desirable?
 Do you think I need something to connect the legs lower down for support, or can I just leave them stick out? (planned overall table height is 19" but I might wind up as low as 17")
 I kind of like this concept of making lighter leg structures that do not require putting large holes in the top at the risk of getting an angle wrong and having everything messed up.  Not sure how this will appear when finished so I wanted to test out the concept and see how it plays out. Any input is welcome and invited.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

doc henderson

for any furniture, I glue everything but the top attachment.  to add pizzaz to the legs and lighten them up, look at a tapering jig.  can taper just the inner 2 sides or all four.  can do the whole length, but easier to leave a square area to attach IMO.  plans and video online, and done on the table saw.  the top will really POP!  i like a little flare angle but you can figure it out.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Ljohnsaw

My initial thought on how to get your legs canted a bit:

Take the legs like you have set up in your mock-up.  Set your table saw to a small angle (2.5-5°?).  Using a tenon jig would make it easier but clamping an extra tall temporary fence to you saw fence will work.  Then pass two adjoining sides of the leg between the blade and fence to make a dovetail like cut.  Make this cut longer than the table skirt is high.  This will enter the edge of the leg and the cut will lean into the leg.  You will have to trim off the slivers and do a little bit of a fancy true up at the shoulder.  As the leg leans out in one direction, the shoulder is not square on the adjoining face.  Both those shoulder cuts should be the same angle off of perpendicular as the angle of the dovetail.  Hope that is clear.

The way I would do it is cut the wedge-like sliver out on both sides.  Clamp to your skirt (or a working mock up of one corner).  Then have a ½" to 1" spacer on top (the "bottom" of the skirt) and use a flush cutting/undercutting saw to cut the compound angle.  That would give a very good fit that can be trued up with some sharp chisels.

Next, I would fit it to the skirt, marking where it extends beyond the upper edge of the skirt - trim to fit.  Once all the legs are attached, trim  all to length with your band mill!

As Doc suggested, I would also taper the legs to make them look nicer.  If you tapered the inside faces about ½" and then did a 2½° angle, I think it would look pretty cool.

I might try this for some cedar slabs I have...
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

doc henderson

here is a pic of my cheap store bought one, it is better to make one with a hinge and an L bracket or piece of angle iron, and 2 boards.  



 
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Old Greenhorn

Ah, you guys are great! I didn't even finish reading both your suggestions before I understood what you were telling me and it made perfect sense. SO inspired I was that I just went back out to the shop and did one sample leg to make sure I had gotten it right.
 This is the quick and dirty setup I made for making the 2.5° cant cuts. Everything is square and the blade is set at the angle.



 
Two simple cuts then I laid it flat and kicked the square over at 2.5° to trim off the chip. The cuts are short and don't blend well, but this is a proof of concept thing right now. I just wanted to prove the plan out in my head. I am not concerned about matches yet.
 So here is that end.


 

Next I made a quick large angle which I clamped to the t-square and set at a 5° angle. I didn't take any pictures of this, it's just as well, pretty ugly, but it worked. I decided on a 5° taper angle that does not run the full length to the leg. This may have had to do with the poor 5 minute jig I made (and finger safety), but it does not look too bad.
 Detail photos don't really show much you don't already know, here is the leg on the mock up.



 

Glad I made a 5th leg for this thing so I had something to mess with. :D Tomorrow I will set it up proper with careful measurements instead of eyeballing everything and make 4 legs all the same.
 Thanks guys, I had a feeling you would set me right. Guess I was tired at the end of the day and needed somebody to look at it clearly. Gonna be fun to see how this comes out now.
 You never know, someday you guys may make me into a woodworker. ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Ljohnsaw

Looks great!  Just a heads up.  Make sure all your blanks are the same length.  Depending on how you made your taper jig, your register may be the same or opposite end as the angle cuts at the top.  Making sure they are all the same starting will help negate any difference when cutting/registering from the same or different ends.  Also, mark what sides are being cut for each leg so you don't suffer a senior moment at a crucial time! ;)
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: ljohnsaw on May 18, 2020, 10:30:40 PM
Looks great!  Just a heads up.  Make sure all your blanks are the same length.  Depending on how you made your taper jig, your register may be the same or opposite end as the angle cuts at the top.  Making sure they are all the same starting will help negate any difference when cutting/registering from the same or different ends.  Also, mark what sides are being cut for each leg so you don't suffer a senior moment at a crucial time! ;)
Hah! been there, done that, 3 or 4 times today on the first concept. Check my burn barrel if you don't believe me. ;D Yes, blanks are equal length and registering all from the same end anyway. Marking the sides is a necessity these days. The phones rings, and bang you have more scrap.
 I am liking this leg setup, the frame is scale-able, and although the legs appear of a modern furniture design I think they look good. I just have to see how it looks when finished. This may be a winner going forward.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Ljohnsaw

Those cross cuts that released the tenon, so to speak:  That is a complicated compound cut, right?  The blade is angled the same as you made the cheek cut and the miter guide is angled that amount as well, correct?  You would just need a stop block at the fence to get them all registered the same.  The only gotcha is the miter angle changes between the faces.  A little blue tape on the uncut sides to clue in which angle you should be cutting on the opposite (bottom) side on the saw.  OR, you could use the off cut from the cheek to use as a shim on your square miter gauge - if it is big enough.  There will still be a little clean up with a hand saw and/or chisels.

Look at some old tables and you will see a piece of steel (could be wood) that makes a 45 angle across the corner.  Then a screw is run through the mid point in into the leg to stiffen it up.  The inside corner is knocked off for the brace to land on it.  If steel, it is bent on the ends and sits in a saw kerf in the skirt boards.  If wood, it would need to be screwed in.  Just a thought to stiffen them up.  Or just glue and screw them in from the inside into the skirt.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Old Greenhorn

That issue may be less of a problem than you think. The angle is so small and the distance so short that the saw kerf pretty much takes care of itself and I just need to clean the corner a bit with a file. But we will see when I get back to it in a little bit.
 I might look into that corner brace idea, those brackets are available but I forget what they are called and can't find them in a google search right now. Baby steps for now as I figure all this stuff out.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

doc henderson

such a small angle, you can play with the idea of cutting the splay angle for the legs, on the backside of the aprons.  just run it through the table saw, and have the legs splay out, and skip the half lab on the leg.  The outside is square but the inside has the 2.5° angle.  or with leg taper on the inside 2 sides, the leg will look splayed but is really perpendicular.  making it look more refined.  I have called my stuff elegant rustic.  bark on one side, but a kid cannot scrape or cut themselves easily.  sounds like a traditional wood worker problem.  so much wood with so many ideas, and so little time, and never enough tools.   :D
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: doc henderson on May 19, 2020, 07:57:06 AM
such a small angle, you can play with the idea of cutting the splay angle for the legs, on the backside of the aprons.  just run it through the table saw, and have the legs splay out, and skip the half lab on the leg.  The outside is square but the inside has the 2.5° angle.  or with leg taper on the inside 2 sides, the leg will look splayed but is really perpendicular.  making it look more refined.  I have called my stuff elegant rustic.  bark on one side, but a kid cannot scrape or cut themselves easily.  sounds like a traditional wood worker problem.  so much wood with so many ideas, and so little time, and never enough tools.   :D
Another neat idea! But I don't want to test that here. The skirt is WO and I have precious little on hand. I used a lot of it building the shed and these pieces were supposed to be battens for that, but they bent like bananas coming off the mill and have laid in the shop ever since. I planed them, cut them short and got the edges trued up into some nice pieces with a bit of effort. 
 Next time I will look into that. Now I am off to the shop to get this done, or screw it up, whichever comes first. ;D ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Old Greenhorn

Well I am afraid  may be too tired to keep my eyes open after the evening session, so I am doing the daily report now. This morning I went out and got started on jigging all the cuts for the legs and didn't too too bad, in spite of marking everything I still managed to do one cut on the wrong side and lost a leg, so I used the spare. Then I put it together and glued it and put a single bronze screw in each leg side. 


 

I set that on the side to set up, put the top back up and sanded off the little epoxy pours. There was some settling in the knot hole one deep bug hole, so I had to mix and do another tiny pour. Then I set the top on the legs and there wasn't much I could do but wait on that.


 

 The weather was nice so I went out and looked for the next thing to do. After the swamp cleanup over the weekend it was looking better, but there was a snapped off maple with a remaining 10' trunk that came down many years ago. It was 'dead' for a long time but now has two volunteers coming out of it and they are about 6" diameter and 20' tall. This will not end well, given the rotten condition of the stump.  Time to take care of that and let some sun in on this wet ground. SO I got the gear on and took that down. The stump was about 28" in diameter so it was a bit more than a simple 'knock 'er down' job and it didn't fall as I wanted, but I got it down, cut everything up, limbed it and spread all the limbs for matting in the swamp and also took out a little hemlock and EWP while I was at it. Everything all nice and clean and I was pooped out. I put all those tools away and went back in the shop. 
 The glue had dried but not the epoxy. So I took all the clamps off and set up a large fence (or what I thought was a large fence until I saw @EOTE 's super fence) and used that to trim the legs. This worked a lot cleaner than using the sawmill, by far.



 

It stands pretty neat and I think those leg ideas I was given really make it look a little sexy, if that is possible.


 

I sanded it all over and just before I came in for dinner I gave it a coat of tung oil. I plan to go out after dinner and flip the top to pour some other small holes in the top side, or is it the bottom? I don't know yet, lets just call it the other side. Then by tomorrow maybe I can do the final sanding and oil it up. This one seems to be coming along faster than previous ones, maybe I am getting better at this? I dunno. I do know I have to start thinking again what is next. Usually I have a long time between projects, but they seem to be getting closer together. I might have to go and look at my notes and sketches. :D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

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