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Getting ripped off??? ...He went and did it...

Started by flip, March 22, 2006, 04:00:46 PM

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Ron Wenrich

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Cedarman

I know this doesn't address the logs on the ground situation.  But it does show a good reason for timberland owners to be members of IFWOA (Indiana Forest and Woodland Owners Association)  There is a tremendous wealth of information available about timber harvests, TSI, timber sales etc.

To help with the downed logs call a district forester and they may have some direction.  If white woods have laid in this heat, they are probably tie or pallet logs now.

I do not know which district you are in but you can call Steve Brandsasse, the district forester who covers Dubois, Martin Daviess and Knox counties. His number is 812 789 2789

If Perry or Spencer county, call Earl McCleerey at 812 547 7029

These guys should be a world of help. 
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

flip

The guy I'm refering to is on the border of Dubois county he is actually in Crawford. 

Yes, he does have a contract and I just skimmed over it to see if there were any obvious red flags.  Looked like pretty standard stuff, but did not specify a time frame or minimum amount of bids he would get, just that he and the seller would agree on a sale price.

Looked like a bunch of stuff to protect the logger but give no absolutes or guarantees for the land owner.  He is a one or two man operation, very small time, one skidder. 

I'm not faulting the logger here, but since I have some  :D knowledge  ::) about milling he's running to me for answers.  I feel bad Mike is losing $$ but I think he should have lined some of this stuff out BEFORE cutting started.  Now I know, I learned a little today.  Thanks guys!

Flip
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Phorester


Yep, FLIP, most loggers have developed a contract over the years that protects themselves and deals little with landowner protections.  That's entirely understandable.  It's up to both parties in a business deal to protect themselves.  They should not rely on the other party to do it for them.

Most landowners sell timber only once or twice in their entire lifetime.  They aren't aware of how timber sales work or what they need to be concerned about until the skidders start through their woods.  Usually too late then.  As you say, things need to be lined out before they sell.  Interesting how they contact me after they begin having second thoughts or problems, but not before... ::)

Bill

With out having a whole lot of selling buying experience I hate to muddy things up  - but I did see maybe one or two good things

1> both the owner and logger have to agree on the selling price - should help to keep the owner/logger working together.

2> sounds like the owner doesn't owe money ( anything ? ) if the logs don't sell - could also mean that owner doesn't "owe" some logs to the logger for his trouble if they don't sell either

3> sounds like the logger ought to be out trying to find buyers with a passion and the owner should contact the district forester PDQ for ideas

I'm guessing that since no one has mentioned it the area must be pretty safe that nobody has come around to claim some free high dollar firewood  ???

Since this is new to me please correct any misconceptions I have.

Good thing these guys are not in the city as if these guys were in the big city - like near phila with all its "starving"  ;D  lawyers . . .   well the lawyers would find a way to make money   :(

Good Luck to your friend -

Ron Wenrich

I'm not sure that the owner and logger have to agree on the selling price.  The logger should be the one doing the marketing.  The owner only agrees on the split and the title, not the destination of the logs, in most cases.

In share cutting, the owner never owes money to the logger.  Its usually the logger gets the check, and then owes the landowner.  Sometimes the owner never gets money, but that's a different story.   ;)

Most of the logs that I saw have been sitting in the yard for several weeks.  We usually wait until we have enough for a full load in most species.  End checks can be trimmed off in the mill.  Normally, they don't go very deep, except in hickory.  Right now I have red oak logs that have been sitting in the yard for at least 6 weeks.  The ends look black, and I know that there will be some stain in the sapwood.  But, for the most part, the logs will be OK.  Ash can sit a long time without staining.

But, if I'm buying logs, I'm harder on logs that have sat for awhile.  Most buyers stipulate fresh cut, and veneer buyers will turn their noses up at old logs.

I'm curious if there is a time limit on the contract.  Most have a certain date that the work has to be finished.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Cedarman

It is my understanding that if time is not included in a contract, then it is not a valid contract.  Set me straight if I am wrong on this.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

hondo

40 % is not out of hand on a job, especially on a small job like that. The logger has the cost of moving his equipment in and out, I pay $75/hr for a lowbed to move my equipment here in NH. When I do a small private job like that I want 50%. Logging equipment isn't cheap, if he does a good job he's well worth 40%.
hondo

Tom

Could be worth the money, but, if he wants any of it, he better get out there and sell some wood. :D

David_c

Quote from: Tom on June 28, 2006, 02:48:19 PM
Could be worth the money, but, if he wants any of it, he better get out there and sell some wood. :D
Yup not worth anything if he dont sell wood and make both some money.

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