please help...hire forester or not?

Started by rank, June 07, 2021, 12:43:39 PM

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ehp

for this area , if the land has been put in the govt tax program it has to be marked by a forester , if land owner has not owned the land for 2 full years it has to be marked by a forester, if the trees were planted which we have lots of it has to be marked by a forester but they are trying to see if they can change the rules as we donot have very many foresters BUT remember your cuts will be walked by the by law so if you think your going to cut whatever you want you are WRONG

rank

Quote from: Jeff on August 01, 2021, 12:09:40 PM
Quote from: rank on July 31, 2021, 10:47:43 AM
Hello everyone I thought I would stop by and give you all an update.

Told Logger 1 (who I believe is reading along here)
What leads you to believe this? If he is, it should be a really good way
For him to learn the error of his ways.
Pure speculation on my part but his demeanor changed a few posts back

rank

Quote from: ehp on August 02, 2021, 04:14:23 PM
for this area , if the land has been put in the govt tax program it has to be marked by a forester , if land owner has not owned the land for 2 full years it has to be marked by a forester, if the trees were planted which we have lots of it has to be marked by a forester but they are trying to see if they can change the rules as we donot have very many foresters BUT remember your cuts will be walked by the by law so if you think your going to cut whatever you want you are WRONG
All the Foresters agree that there is no tree cutting bylaw in Prince Edward County.  They all say that's why the Loggers are here

rank

Quote from: so il logger on August 02, 2021, 12:55:31 AMI'll put it this way, if an honest logger harvests the tract then the landowner would be better off short term "financially" without handing over the 10%  and long term due to forest health and the effects of high grading.
This is what Logger 1 said.  Said the Forester should have marked more trees.   If it gets logged too often you do more damage to the young stock.  Better to log heavier and less often.  I see his point and I suppose it's a balance and every bush is different but I am deathly afraid of the buckthorn taking over if too much sunlight gets in there.

mike_belben

Let the light in and selectively balance the regen with a brush saw. 
Praise The Lord

rank

Quote from: mike_belben on August 02, 2021, 05:46:06 PM
.... selectively balance the regen with a brush saw.
I haven't got time to mow my lawn LOL

mike_belben

Yeah but no one wants to mow lawn.  Everyone wants to cut trees. 

;)
Praise The Lord

gspren

I am a believer in foresters! Selection of a forester isn't all that different than selecting an auto mechanic or dentist, start asking people that should know who they recommend and why, you can also talk to more than one forester. The forester I used and would recommend in my area did a brief walk through with me and then asked what I wanted out of the woods and what I wanted it to look like after the cut and a few years down the road, he made it happen.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

chep

Rank

Seems like your ash is gonna die/already is heading in that direction. Logging your own property is a huge undertaking.  You say you are to busy to mow your own lawn. 
Why dont you get your forester to recommend a logger and have that logger do the work. Yes you wont make as much money as doing it yourself, but it will get done and you will be able to get a return on your assets. 
 Everyone seems to think logging is easy and can be DIY. But go fire up a saw and cut for 6 hrs then tell me how ya feel the next day.... it's not 6 hrs on the firewood pile. Its 6 hrs of bending, running, pounding wedges, wading thru tops etc. Not a cakewalk by any means. 
I have been following this thread and  early on advised to take up a reputable logger on his offer.  If you wait to long your ash wont be worth squat. And if you wait to long your regen will get spindly and fall over when released. Good forestry is all about timing. Make hay when the sun shines. Move past your ego and the big $$ signs that you think you can save by doing it yourself.  Find a good logger and trust them to do right by your forest. Its sounds like its marked, tallied and ready to go. Markets are strong. Dont wait till the corn falls over.

Good luck

dustyhat

Chep, thats some good sound advise.

Hogdaddy

yep, got to shave while the water is hot...  Honestly, I would have lost interest a long time ago if I were the loggers. Don't mean to hurt anyones feelings, but I think hes talked to 3 loggers and 2 foresters over the last 2 or 3 months.. and then decides to cut it himself? Loggers need to make a living...
If you gonna be a bear, be a Grizzly!

Jeff

The loggers will never lose interest as long as there are marketable trees
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

mike_belben

They will when the price crashes. 
Praise The Lord

John Mc

Quote from: mike_belben on August 05, 2021, 08:39:21 AM
They will when the price crashes.
How have prices been in your area? I've not researched it in any depth, but from what I've heard through the grapevine, they are doing OK here in VT.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

mike_belben

Probably still pretty strong but i really have no idea.  I go against the grain at all times.  While everyone is cutting them i am growing them. 
Praise The Lord

mike_belben

So for gits and shiggles i called the tie mill i know best from my adventures in high graded timber.  

W/O and R/O switch tie have gone from 450 and 400 to 550 and 500 respectively.  She said prices are going up next week because theyre empty, theyve only sawn 3 weeks this summer and only have 2 weeks of wood.  The two mills are short by 18 crew members and only one can run at a time with the crew they have.  Between old loggers retiring and a few weeks of rain it is looking dire.  There is a part of me thinking i better contribute a trailer load of logs to help keep them afloat or i will regret it later.  That can buy me poles and high tensile wire before it goes up.

They stayed running all through covid.  Weather was all that altered production, not sickness.  Now the entire state or tennessee is having a huge phantom leap in cases but its all BS.  Everyone knows everyone in the rural south.  We hear about the slightest minutia in peoples lives and theres not one so n so got the covid story on the grapevine.  
Praise The Lord

metalspinner

I have nothing to really contribute other than... I just read this entire thread!😂

But, I appreciate that Rank has taken his time and asked lots of questions from lots of people. He learned a lot along the way that can only be a benefit to him in the future. 
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

OH logger

Depends how many other fish are in these loggers seas. If they have other prospective jobs I imagine they'll give up. I've had landowners tell me "for that price I'll cut em up myself". Makes me laugh every time. Never once has that happened.  Only had a few try never had ANY succeed or finish. I've found the jobs that I've fought the hardest for I wish I'd have let em go. Just get put through the ringer and no PROFIT to show for it. 
john

OH logger

I've alwYs believed in trusting  your gut. That goes for both parties in a timber sale: logger AND landowner 
john

AndyVT

I am a landowner who  has been managing and harvesting my 50 acres of pine, oak and hemlock for 35 years and have always sold direct to the mills.
.85/bd ft seems like a decent price for stumpage if the stumpage count is accurate.
I only get .30-.40/bd ft for white pine and hemlock sawlogs and maybe .60/bd ft for red oak and that is direct and I still make a profit after trucking and sawing expenses.

ppine

I like loggers and used to be one. 
They typically don't know anything silviculture. 
Foresters know a lot about it, so the smart thing to do is hire one if it is your land and you are going to stay there. 
Forester

ehp

He will not get .85 a ft stumpage across the board if scale is accurate unless is good hard maple  white oak or walnut . Not much else pays that well up here. But if your getting paid for every other tree cut then I can see it . If your cutting by good forestry in ontario so that means your also cutting the junk and you do not get to cut the best as its left to grow you should average .50 per ft stumpage so about $1000 to $1500 an acre is pretty average here . If you cut more trees per acre then you will not be able to come back and log again in 10 years

rank

UPDATE:

Hello again everyone.  I've been in there two weeks now taking the ash only.  I've got 42 trees down out of the 118 ash that were marked.  Just a WAG I'd say I have about fifty five 15" x 8'-10' ft logs....about 4675 bdft international x $575 = $2700 CDN.  

Observations:
-Skidding them out from way, way in there is time consuming.
-Taking only the ash is time consuming.
-Bucking straight sections from crooked trees is time consuming.
-A 60 year old tree should be worth more than a $50 saw log
-There is no such thing as a straight tree.
-The foresters estimated 22,000 bdft of ash in 118 trees....not even close.  Maybe half that.  Trees aren't straight enough.
-There's going to be more revenue from firewood than saw logs
-I think when I'm done I'll have less money than the logger offered



OH logger

I'm sorry to hear that for you. But I'm not too surprised. If it were easy everyone would wanna do it. Not to be mean but if the loggers that looked at your woods would read this post they'd sure have  a good laugh. Thanks for the update. Your honesty and openness is commendable 
john

rank

Quote from: OH logger on February 28, 2022, 08:25:14 PM
I'm sorry to hear that for you. But I'm not too surprised. If it were easy everyone would wanna do it. Not to be mean but if the loggers that looked at your woods would read this post they'd sure have  a good laugh. Thanks for the update. Your honesty and openness is commendable
No worries.  I'm sure the one logger would laugh for sure.  And he should.  That's OK I said from the beginning it was never about the money but about the uncertainty of what my forest was going to look like afterward. I'm sure it will be in better shape when I'm done due to less skidder damage.

For the price he offered up front, his overseas buyers are obviously paying much better and tolerating more sweep than my buyer.  I might even call him to see if he wants to buy them off the landing area.