I'd like to be able to mill some longer logs on a regular basis, so I could use an extension. Do you think it would be more cost effective to buy direct from WM or bring one of my bed extensions to a welder/fabricator and have him build me one?
They are about $100 per foot for the WM ones, but I know it would fit perfect the first time- then again, it isn't exactly rocket science either ???
I wish I could find a couple WM extensions used but not too many show up on CL.
-Matt
Matt,
I am also looking for a used 12 foot extension for my LT40HYD and not having much luck, I don't need a new one but it may be my only choice as used ones are rare.
I don't think you will save much by paying a welder to build one. If you can build it yourself, then yes it's about a 50% savings. I built my 16' extension for $500-ish and that was buying all new steel..no scrounging.
Motorseven,
I could possibly find the time to build it myself, I no longer have a welder but could borrow one. Did you use the same size steel for the track as WM does, or did you go with your own design?
Do you have any pictures you could either post or email me? i'd love to see the one you built. I'd actually really like a rigid 16-20' extension rather than multiple short sections bolted together.
Splinter,
If I see any LT40 extensions for sale in my searching I'll let you know. I'm not in a huge hurry to order one so I'll give it a month or so, and if I don't find anything, or decide to build, then I'll probably buy one new next month or so.
I guess I'll start searching the forum for homemade extension pics now ;D
Does anyone know what size steel woodmizer uses for the bed extensions? I think it's 4x6 but I don't know what thickness it is.
I'd like to look into how much the steel would cost to build my own.
Here are a couple pictures of an extension I made for an LT15 I had. I have posted these earlier in another post.....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18700/2253/IMG_0010.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18700/2253/DSC02702.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18700/2253/DSC02571.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18700/2253/DSC02660.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18700/2253/DSC02657.JPG)
That looks great, thanks for posting.
Do you remember what thickness steel you used?
What is the jig for in the last picture?
How did the extension work? Any problems with accuracy or the saw head moving smoothly on it?
I just emailed a steel company near me to see if they sell steel to the public, and if there is a minimum.
I reached out to Woodmizer when I was shopping for a mill. Asking for thickness of mill supports.
Was told by "Archey", at woodmizer that the supports were 6" x 2" x 1/8 gauge, on the lt15. I would check with the larger steel yards. They are cheaper than the middleman. The one I priced at and went to was in Detroit around 6 mile. They sold in 20' lengths standard. And they would cut it down for you for a fee. If it was me I'd just cut it down with a cordless sawzall just enough to get it home.
Is it just a couple bolts holding it together through the steel bar? Seems like it would shift?
I would think you'd use the bolt idea and also have a custom fit steel insert welded up to fit inside the 2 tubes to keep it from shifting up or down.
But, I've never seen a woodmizer in person, though I'd like to. :)
Dave S...
Piston, As lazyguy stated, the side rails are 2X6X1/8 steel. The bunks on
the one I had were 1-1/2X3X1/8 inches. WM changed the bunks a couple
times since the earlier ones so yours may be different. The jig in my last picture
was what I used to level the bunks with the side rails before welding. The
extension worked great. I made it line up perfectly with the mill bed so
couldn't tell when I went onto it.
Lazyguy, the bunks were all welded in so there was no racking or shifting.
Here is a link to Motor Seven's detailed account of the extension
that he built for his LT15. A lot longer than the one I built. Looking at his pictures
let me know I could probably build one also. His was precisely like the original,
I changed the ends of the bunks on mine to save a little angle cutting......
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,38107.msg549287.html#msg549287
Motorseven, Slingshot, and Lazyguy,
Thanks a lot for the information, that should be pretty much everything I need to know if I decide to try and build one. I called a local steel yard for pricing but of course it's a weekend and their not open, I'll check back on Monday and see what it would cost me. There is a good chance that for now, I'll end up purchasing one bed extension from Woodmizer, and try to borrow a couple when I really need to mill something long, but I do prefer to build one, single extension that would be 16'-20' long.
24hrs in a day just isn't enough sometimes :D
Quote from: Lazyguy on June 15, 2013, 12:44:51 PM
I reached out to Woodmizer when I was shopping for a mill. Asking for thickness of mill supports.
Was told by "Archey", at woodmizer that the supports were 6" x 2" x 1/8 gauge, on the lt15. I would check with the larger steel yards. They are cheaper than the middleman. The one I priced at and went to was in Detroit around 6 mile. They sold in 20' lengths standard. And they would cut it down for you for a fee. If it was me I'd just cut it down with a cordless sawzall just enough to get it home.
Is it just a couple bolts holding it together through the steel bar? Seems like it would shift?
I would think you'd use the bolt idea and also have a custom fit steel insert welded up to fit inside the 2 tubes to keep it from shifting up or down.
But, I've never seen a woodmizer in person, though I'd like to. :)
Dave S...
Almost forgot, Welcome to the forum Dave. ;D
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Lazyguy. :)
Piston my 16' has worked very well. I did have a problem with a "dip" in the cut 5-6' into the extension. My rail that the head rolls on was tack welded wrong, somehow it had slipped when clamped and had a 3' very slight "bow" in it. Looking down the mill from ground level you could see the dip. I had to cut a dozen or so spot welds, move the rail up 1/8th of an inch then re-spot weld it.
Other than my own mistake, I have not had any other issues with the extension. I successfully loaded sawed and turned 26' x 25-6" diameter Hemlock logs. They were so big 3 of us with cant hooks could not turn them, so I did the chain wrap trick and turned them with the tractor FEL. I cut a whole logging truck full of long logs for my rafters and the extension withstood it all. I did catch a back stop when turning a big log and bent the rail(again, my fault no the mills) so get some long pvc pipe to slip over the backstops to prevent that from happening.
Motorseven,
Thanks for the additional info on your extension. Did you use 1/8" thick 2x6? I'm going to call the steel yard tomorrow for a price on materials, hopefully they sell to the "little guy" and not just big businesses. I still haven't decided if I'm going to purchase an extension or try to build one myself. I really want to build one but the time factor is holding me back at this point.
I may very well hold off on buying one, and build my own once fall rolls around and I have more 'free' time. I will certainly post pics of any progress!
I've also had to use the "chain/cable" technique for rolling the big logs. This white oak was just shy of 4,000lbs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17127/pice00034.jpg)
Quotehopefully they sell to the "little guy" and not just big businesses.
You may find that, but also may find that they will sell from their stock on hand, and in the std. lengths. i.e. not cut the pieces to the lengths you need. Runs in my mind that 20' is std. length.
We have some local fabricating shops that carry an inventory of steel, and have found they will cut to length (but may charge for the full length they are getting it from).
That's okay, the longer the better! ;D
I don't know if I'm in dream world or not, but I figure if I can build a 20' extension for about the same price as a single WM one would cost me, I'd be happier than a (insert favorite saying here).
I can't remember, but it's exactly the same as what WM uses. I still have a stick left over so I'll measure it.
Go 20'.....everything you buy is in 20' lengths, so chopping off 4' is just a waste. Just don't call me for help when you want to saw out that 36 footer :D
Quote from: MotorSeven on June 16, 2013, 06:26:01 PM
Just don't call me for help when you want to saw out that 36 footer :D
:D :D :D Aw c'moooon!
The nice thing would be that I could load two decent sized logs on the track at once, maybe be a bit more productive that way. I always said I'd never mill another monster log, but I'm getting closer and closer to doing it again :D
I guess what they say is true, memory fades.... ;D
I'd almost use it to put the flitches on. I think that might work better. But you are doing it too. :D
All I have for a welder, is a cheapo 110v wire feed from Home Depot that cost about $400. It can supposedly weld 1/4" but I think that's pushing it.
Do you think it would be good for welding the 1/8" thick steel of the extension? I'm worried it wouldn't be due to the heavy logs banging around on the bed. I think what I may do is tack everything together with my toy welder, then have a welder friend come over with his equipment and weld it together for me.
Any opinions regarding this?
Quote from: Piston on June 17, 2013, 11:50:35 AM
All I have for a welder, is a cheapo 110v wire feed from Home Depot that cost about $400. It can supposedly weld 1/4" but I think that's pushing it.
Do you think it would be good for welding the 1/8" thick steel of the extension? I'm worried it wouldn't be due to the heavy logs banging around on the bed. I think what I may do is tack everything together with my toy welder, then have a welder friend come over with his equipment and weld it together for me.
Any opinions regarding this?
That welder will do fine for what you will be welding, assuming that you know how to weld well. I have a similar machine and I have welded all sorts of much heavier material. Just make sure you get even pentration on both pieces of metal. If you think you need to, you can make multiple passes to increase the weld size.
I got a quote from the steel supply store.
1/8" thick 2x6 is $105, whereas 3/16" is $156.
They only come in 24' lengths, so 24' it is! 8)
My question is, is there any reason I should NOT go with 3/16"? I know WM uses 1/8" thickness but I am thinking that 3/16" would be better, as it is a bit thicker/sturdier.
I'd like to go a little heavy on the thickness because I may try to add a "trailer kit" to this extension down the road, then I'd have a mobile LT15 with a 24' track on it. ;)
If the only negative to going thicker is cost, then I'll go with the 3/16" thickness.
I will order 3 of the 24' long sections, using 2 for the tracks, and 1 to be cut up into smaller lengths that I'll use for cross bracing. I'll certainly not get to this project over the next few weeks but I may purchase the steel soon. I figure it will probably cost right around the same price for the 24' extension by building it myself, than it would for a 7' section from WM.
I just need to make sure I don't screw it up :D
I'd go heavier, it just costs a little more. Like Philngruvy said, you can weld with the little welder, just make sure you are getting penetration. If you are really worried, then tack it and have your friend finish it like you said. Can't wait to see the first 38' white oak on there. ;D
Quote from: Dave Shepard on June 18, 2013, 08:34:25 PM
Can't wait to see the first 38' white oak on there. ;D
Dang it Dave! I'm gonna NIGHT MARES tonight just thinking about that!
I don't mess with those big boy species, I stick with the pine :D
At least I have a way to get the log to the mill now.....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17127/2875/P1000614.JPG)
Ouch! I just used the calc's to figure log weight of a 38' white oak, right around 5-6k lbs. :o
I don't think I'll be moving one of those :D
I sawed up load of 29' wo last month. The 16" tips I could pick up with the L48. The 20" tips I winched in front of the mill and used the loading arms and the L48. :D
As Philngruvy said that welder will be fine for that project. Now if you was making a woods trailer and wanted to put almost a cord of wood on it,well,that would be a differant story. I use to have one like that,but started to get more and more into toys and needed a bigger one.
Quote from: thecfarm on June 18, 2013, 10:05:00 PM
I use to have one like that,but started to get more and more into toys and needed a bigger one.
Ya that's my problem Ray. I really could use a new welder with more "capacity"
I'll give it a go with this welder, I just worry about the heavy weight of huge logs on the mill. I am careful not to "drop" a log onto the mill, but you can't help it when your turning a large log, it eventually just comes crashing down after being turned far enough.
If your welder is rated to 1/4" you should be fine. I welded my headrig with a 105 amp welder that was only supposed to go up to 1/8". Most of my material was 3/16"! I wouldn't recommend this, infact, I might have to rebuilt a few pieces now that I have a Hobart 210. But if your welder says it goes to 1/4" you'll be perfectly fine with 3/16 or 1/4. If you ever want to upgrade your welder look for a reconditioned Hobart Handler. I bought my 210 from Amazon last month for $550 free shipping and it was literally new. I LOVE this welder 8)
For $50 extra I'd use the 3/16" in a heart beat!
Many years ago my brother-in-law welded up some 2" x 5" x 1/8" stock to hold a small lathe for me.
He did this with a small Miller mig 110 unit. It was supposed to weld up to 5/16" if memory serves.
That bench is strong as HE--!
You should v-grove at joints to help with the penetration.
But, unless you're a Experienced welder. I'd just tack it up and let you're buddy finish it with his equipment.
You can swap favors, later.
A 30" log's HEAVY, and you're safety's on the LINE.
Dave S...
Ps: thank's for the welcomes.
Quote from: Timberline on June 18, 2013, 11:18:43 PM
If your welder is rated to 1/4" you should be fine. I welded my headrig with a 105 amp welder that was only supposed to go up to 1/8". Most of my material was 3/16"! I wouldn't recommend this, infact, I might have to rebuilt a few pieces now that I have a Hobart 210. But if your welder says it goes to 1/4" you'll be perfectly fine with 3/16 or 1/4. If you ever want to upgrade your welder look for a reconditioned Hobart Handler. I bought my 210 from Amazon last month for $550 free shipping and it was literally new. I LOVE this welder 8)
I like mine too :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22511/DSCN2978.JPG)
How thick can you weld with the Hobart?
I'd like to upgrade, someday. ;D
Piston,concerned about your welds? Weld 2 scarp pieces together,take a big hammer and whale on the son ,well you know what I mean. If they don't come apart,you are all set.
I brought a Lincoln,uses 220. I have my on a dolly with about 50 of thick and I mean thick wire. It told me in the manual what size. Think I paid $100 for that 10 years ago. I do all my welding outside. I just unwrap what ever amount I need. I built a cabinet right on the dolly. I never finished it,but it has one draw and all my cutting wheels and grinding wheels are on a bolt on the bottom. My clamps are there and eveything I need. If someone pulled in and needed my welder all they would have to do is wheel it out and go. Everything I need is on that dolly. There is also a 110 with 2 outlets with 50 feet of wire on that too.
Quote from: Piston on June 18, 2013, 11:00:39 PM
Ya that's my problem Ray. I really could use a new welder with more "capacity"
Well, if that's the case let us spend some of your money for you :D
Really, sell the smaller one, and get a 210-ish......you will never be sorry you did this. My Millermatic 210 has just been flat out awesome.
Here are some good options for bed extensions
I bought 4 extensions for my LT15go. Could I have built them? Yes. Could I build them as effeciently as Woodmizer? No. Do I have the set up table to make sure the cross bars are all at exactly the same height? No. Would I rather spend my time fabricating extensions or milling, and doing the other things I'm efficient at? The latter. Would it be cheaper to build them myself? Probably not. To be fair, you have to include your time and resources, which I'm not sure most do. At the value of my time, I probably can't do it cheaper. But that's not the real question. Can I do it cheaper at such a savings to make it worth while? No. So I bought them.
Now....If they are not available for a year and you need them sooner, then you have a case to build time in my opinion.