Building a Kiln Chamber

[Paul_H]

Close the door,it's cold 8)

That was a great poem,I've got a Robert Service collection around here somewhere.

Frank,
I hear you.I was half fast looking for a reefer like that but then thought,I've got the lumber so why not use some of it.Can you tow your kiln up here so I can have a look? ;)

[Frank_Pender]

That sounds like some of that good ol' English humor I am use to dissing out to people, myself.   Sure I can toe it up there.   :D Then What?  ??? You would have me leave it there for the season, ya right?   It would not pass the inspection stations along the way.  I have one not more than ten miles away. That  is about as far as I would get the thing.  It is better you come here.  You have already lost the planer to Loren. 8) (Oregon_Sawyer) You had better get down here before I lose something you you might have to take back home, duty free. We could classify it as a gift from your Southern neighbor.   ;D 8) 8) 8) 8)
  Besides  what are you doing up so late?

[Paul_H]

I've got a "town" day tomorrow so I'm not out of here till 9:00 am.It sounds like the planer has found a good home,and it's close enough for you to check up on,maybe put some wood through it.

If we make a Motorhome trip this Summer,both Carla,and our son Tom want to head down your way and drive the coast.

[Neil_B]

Hey Paul, did you look into that Roxol insulation? The stuff that is made out of rock wool. It's supposed to be excellent stuff and able to handle moisture, if any, without degrade. I'm considering using it and it's usually not a whole lot more expensive than pink but still cheaper than foam comparing R values.

The other reason I'm looking at the 300, Brian, is I'm planning on 6000 to 8000 bdft per load. I should have mentioned that earlier. The 200 would probably do it but would have to run constantly and therefore burn out quicker?? It's a good thought to turn the unit off when going to the higher temp as you wouldn't really need it running anyway, would you.
May still consider 2, 200s then if that's all I have to do when heat treating.
As far as the interior, could one call someone like Alcan to get some kind of lining. I think they make most of that aluminum sheeting anyway. What about 50 tubes of aluminum foil?? ;D

[Brian_Bailey]

Paul  -  

Nyle doesn't recommend fiberglass for insulation because it loses its R value if moisture gets into it.  I've used both and believe me the rigid ( I used blue Dow board) is far superior. If you're seriously considering running the kiln year round go with the rigid insulation!  

I used 3/8" cdx plywood with 6 mil plastic vapor barrier between the plywood & insulation.  The plywood was attached to the studs with stainless screws.  In 13 yrs. I have coated the plywood twice with the mobile home tar.  It must do something as I have had no delaminations due to moisture.
The first coat was with the thin stuff,  the 2nd was with the porridge stuff.  I prefer the thin as it gets into the crevices better.

New_Sawyer -  

Sounds like the L-300 should do you well at that production level.  

[Paul_H]

The kiln chamber is coming right along,but I don't think we will make June 11th Things are going well though and we will finish back framing and hopefully some wiring tomorrow.

The tin for the roof  will be here Monday.

[Brian_Bailey]

Looking Good, Paul !    8) 8)

[biziedizie]

Very nice looking work Paul, I like the way the floor is laid out. I should be up in the next few weeks. Will the kiln be done by then?

   Steve

[hawby]

Paul_H,

How's the kiln coming? I called WM yesterday to order my DH4000. They had told me a couple of months ago that they keep 'em in stock. Guess what? That's unless I order one, then they are out of stock. Was a little putoff by the lack of phone skills as well.

Can somebody shoot me the Bailey's website? I had it, but then it got lost. I tried www.baileys.com, but they just recommended safe driving, while drinking :D

I told WM to put my name on one of the four that supposedly are coming next week, but... as I said, the phone skills... and the promise to call right back....some 4 hours later, after I had left work... kinda gave me a sour taste.

Also, if I remember right Bailey's was running a special on shipping and the moisture meter. WM wasn't talking any deals, or as far as I was concerned, weren't talking. Compared to the Service Dept. at WM, well, let's just say, I am glad I bought used. I wouldn't have wanted this guy to get a commission on what I wpuld have had to pay. Guess customer relations aren't important in this booming economy  :( >:( ??? :-/  On the other hand, the service guys are real easy to talk with and are very helpful and conversational. ( I actually had to say, "Hello" again after 25 secs of silence at the beginning of the call. As my teens say, "Whassup with that?)

Now that I have vented.... Does anyone know what type of sensor the humidistat is using. If it is a polymer film type, Brian is absolutely correct. Calibration will shift over time, especially being exposed to outgassing from the lumber. The sensor would also require replacement on a periodic basis.

SO, if any of you happen to know that answer, "Thanks!"

Sorry to dump.... been hot, tired, overworked, under-appreciated, and had to deal with a , "used car salesman!" I'll get over it.

hawby

So anyway, let's just say

[Neil_B]

Hey Hawby, try this
http://www.baileys-online.com/

Good luck

[hawby]

Thanks New_Sawyer. I actually found it once the blood flow slowed a little. Just kinda grinds me a little wrong. Don't wanna rag WM to much, cause I know they are a good company, but I'll tell ya, I don't care much for rudeness, especially in a salesperson.

Bailey's is $132.95 cheaper. That's delivered to my site. Gotta go to Indy to get it at the price they quoted, ( I guess. Ol tightlips didn't say. I just told him I could go to Indy if it was worth my while.) Gonna call 'em in the morning to see when they would be able to deliver. Moisture meter included in both quotes. Don't know about service, but ya know, I can't imagine that there is gonna be a lot to it.

My reefer is gonna be here early next week, so I'd like to get it ASAP. Ready to dry some wood  8)

hawby

[Norm]

I bought my kiln direct from Nyle, nice guys to work with, give em a call. www.nyle.com

[hawby]

Thanks Norm, but they are $300 higher. That'll go a long ways toward my wiring costs.

But its nice to know they are nice to work with if the need arises.

Golly Bailey's must by large quantities to discount it so much.

hawby

[Brian_Bailey]

hawby -  The unit is made by Nyle, so you shouldn't have any problems getting parts right from Nyle. Give them a call if you need any info. -  good folks to deal with.

I'd like to pass this along.  

If you've been running your DH kiln for a while.  It might pay to have a refridgeration mechanic check your system for leaks or do it yourself if you know how.  

Mine delevoped a slow leak around a couple of fittings.  It was so slow that I did not notice that it was taking longer to dry a load of lumber. I was keeping records, but I wasn't paying much attention to them  :-[ . Does that make sence?  I had the system recharged and what a difference it made.  The mechanic said it would be a good idea to check it once a year.

Paul H  -  Yeah,  how about an update?    

[Paul_H]

I keep records too,but I don't know where I put them ???


The kiln chamber has been coming along pretty well.But I can only work on it after work and on Saturdays,so it has slowed down.The roof is on,most of the exterior plywood,all insulated& polyed and sheeted inside.The unit is sitting in a box waiting to be installed,but first I have to put on the kiln coating.
I will have most of next week to work on it so it should be much closer to being up and running.I'll take some more pics and post them in a couple of days.

Hawby,
It sounds like you found a weak link at WM(theres always one :-/) I had better luck with all the different companies I talked to regarding the kiln and WM has been good for following up.
I always figured a nice feature to have on a phone would be a button that would deliver an electric shock to the offending party.Of course that could work both ways ;D

[Norm]

Geez you'd think if ya bought direct they would be cheaper than who they sell to. When I bought mine WM wasn't selling em yet and I hadn't heard of Baileys. Sounds like you found the best deal out there. I will say that Nyle is real nice to work with if you have any questions no matter who you buy it from. Good luck.

[Neil_B]

Hawby, from my latest experience, I have found that it's not always a good idea to go the "cheaper" route especially if it may sacrifice the service end of things. You could easily lose that $300 while waiting for someone that's not service oriented to come up with a solution if a problem arises.
Does Baileys themselves troubleshoot and service this kiln unit or would you have to wait for them to get ahold of someone at Nyle?? With not buying directly from Nyle, will they still help you out if you called them directly instead of going through Bailey?? May be something to check into before making the purchase.

[hawby]

Well. I did it. Called Bailey's when California opened up today. (They sleep late, it was 10 AM EST :D)

Talked with Nick Bailey there, one of THE Bailey's I take it. Great help, lots of friendly advice. Called the factory to see how quick they could get one ot me. Ships Monday. Free moisture meter. They are out of stock on them, so I went ahead and ordered one of the micro pin-type ones as well.

Totaling it all up, I save $200 AND got it shipped. NOW, that may be due to the controller package, but that does not concern me. I don't have any spec sheets to base my opinion on, but technically, I am thinking that I like the time based controller better than the humidistat.

Humidity calibration is expensive and needs to be performed often. For critical processes in our pharmaceutical plant, we calibrate every three months. To do a calibration with an accuracy of ± 2.0 %RH takes about three hours. That's on a $40, 000 instrument for a standard.

I will check the calibration of the two different meters after I get them and report back to you guys about the results. I won't be able to check them below 10%RH as that is a $60,000 instrument we don't have. I may be able to borrow something though that would give me some confidence in their accuracy. (Or, I have a good friend that owns the company that builds the standard instruments, maybe he'll do me a favor ;))

Anyway, we're on course in the business plan. Now if it just wasn't 90°F and 90 %RH outside :-/

hawby

PS: I phoned WM and told the salesguy to take my name off the list.

[Furby]

Hawby, I know what you mean about the 90/90, whew!!!!!!!!

[Brian_Bailey]

hawby -  I use the oven dry method to check my meters.  An accurate scale and a microwave oven with a turn table to dry your wood samples in, will let you know if your meters are giving an accurate reading.  Some species need to have a corrective factor added to the meter reading.  Just remember that electric moisture meters aren't ment for wood over 30% MC.

[hawby]

Brian,

Thanks. I'll give that a try as well. Over the past 13 years of doing humidity calibrations, I have just found that there is considerable inaccuracy, even in NEW meters. We have a major global manufacturer that consistantly is off by 3-5%.
For an extra $200 they will calibrate them correctly  :-/

I am looking forward to doing some testing.... and some wood drying.

Nick Bailey did tell me that I actually have two chambers. He said I should divide my reefer in half. What do you guys think? Its a 28 footer. He said that by using just 14' it would dry a lot faster. Makes sense to me.

What size chambers are some of you using that have the same unit?

hawby

[Brian_Bailey]

Fourteen feet isn't going to work if you're looking to dry sixteen footers  :D :D.  

Nick is right.  The smaller the chamber, the more efficent the kiln will be.  

Just keep in mind that the compressor is 2 hp. and the rule of thumb is 1mbf / hp.  You certainly can dry more than 2mbf / charge, but your drying rate will suffer and this could cause problems with a species that should be dried as fast as possible, such as maple.

If I was you, I'd make up some moveable baffles and adjust the chamber size to fit the lenghts that you're working with. Build you pile in height rather than lenght.

The meters that I use measure the electrical resistance of the wood between the probes,  so humidity isn't much of a factor.

[hawby]

Brian,

Thanks on both issues. Moveable walls would make sense and would help in keeping my 16' boards from becoming 2 - 8 footers  ;D

Electrical resistance - makes sense as each species will have different cellular makeup and a different resistance for the same moisture content. Resistance is also a FUNDAMENTAL parameter and can easily be referenced. As long as the mfr. provides some values for calibration of zero and span. Good I am relaxing a little on that count.

I am still thinking that down.... ok, way down the road, I would like to get another unit to use in the second chamber.OR I could always dry some 28 footers  

hawby

[Furby]

Let me know when you are gonna cut them 28 footers. I'll make sure I already have plans! ;D :D :D :D

[Fla._Deadheader]

I've been readin and studyin the plans and brochures for a solar kiln, all weekend.
  Question; The directions state that, water will condense on the inside walls. Is it necessary to have a way to channel this excess moisture away from the walls and floor?  I have to build off the ground, with a complete frame construction, including the floor. Anything I really need to pay close attention to??  This project will take a few weekends, so, don't expect pics very often. What I really need is "Tech Support". : : ;D :D :D :D