tree stands and tree damage

[OneWithWood]

I have had a running discussion with my brother on what damage certain tree stands and climbing steps may do to a tree.  We both use portable stands that do not break the bark of the tree.  I use a collapsable ladder for entry.  He uses the type of steps that screw into the tree and he screws a couple of hooks into the bole above his stand to hang stuff on.  I make sure he never puts up a stand in one of my oaks.  I contend that the screw in steps and hooks provide an easy entry for insects and thus may degrade the tree.  What damage if any do the screw in steps do to a tree?

[Ron Scott]

If you want to have quality sawlogs or veneer trees, you "do not" put screw in tree steps in to them, especially in the first 16 + feet area.

Screw in tree steps have been "outlawed" on public land in Michigan and on all National forest system lands for several years now. Only portable tree stands are permitted with no "screw ins".

[OneWithWood]

Ron,
Thank-you for the reply.  I agree with you 100%.  Could you be more specific about the damage the screw in steps cause. My bro always wants some factual data befroe he acquieces in one of these discussions.

[Tom]

Ask him if he would pay top dollar for a dining room table that had holes in it every few inches.

If he bought a buffet for his wife's anniversary present and it had holes and stains from a hunter's screw-in steps, would he consider it a degrade and try to get money knocked off of the price or would he offer more money because of its novelty?

[Brian_Bailey]

I've got a maple tree in my woods that is ruined because some thoughtless hunter screwed some lagbolt climbing steps into it and didn't take them out. Now they're imbedded enough so you can't get them out. I'm not too happy about it >:(.  

[Tom]

I have some water oaks that someone put steps in and I can't get them out. The metal they are made from is brittle and breaks off inside of the tree if you try to loosen them.  They were put in the trees the morning after I cut a trail with my tractor back in 1985.  I wonder who's place he thought he was on?  Luckily they aren't sawtimber but it still makes me angry.  I'll use them for firewood one day so that they don't make it to a pulp mill and ruin their chipper.

[Noble_Ma]

I've noticed a lot of wood steps nailed to the trees in the woods behind my house.  My kids thought that someone was building a tree fort!   It's not my property so I can't say much about it other than it does damage the trees.  I don't think these guys are really thinking about the damage it does.  Most people aren't malicious by nature.

[Ron Wenrich]

A screw in step would leave some sort of a hole in the wood.  Any hole is considered a defect when grading.  Too many holes would drop that board quality, and also the price.  

Depending on the quality of the steel and the type of wood, you can also leave a stain in the wood.  Tannic acid will react with iron and leave a really nice blue spot.  That is also a defect.  Sometimes it doesn't take a real long contact time, since some small bits of iron will remain in the wood when you back the screw out.

The biggest problem I see is that eventually, either a step will be forgotten or it will break off in the tree.  That is trash metal and trash metal is the bane of any sawyer.

I am cruising a woodlot and I really get ticked at all the junk hunters put in trees.  One guy went and put lags all the way up a tree to make a ladder for a tree stand.  He doesn't even own the property!

I often wonder why they take the nicest tree in the woods to make their stands.  

[Bibbyman]

We have a constant fight with unknown tree stand builders.  Son Chris came in one time with a double handful of the screw in step thingies.  Said he'd found them in a tree along the creek on our place and removed them.  

Then we were scouting one area of the farm that borders on the backside with a bunch of "ranches" of 5-10 acres each.  We found one cobbled up stand build in a cluster of maples.  Not far away was another stand quite substantially built out of new cca lumber with a staircase, rails and all.  It was nailed to a nice white oak tree about 12"dbh.

Then one spring we found a hunter's bucket seat (like a plastic five-gallon bucket with a padded top).  It came home with us.  Later in the fall deer hunting season,  in the same spot we found a camouflaged folding camp stool with accessory bag under it.  It had been there for a while.  

[Tillaway]

I find them from time to time and they are one of my pet peaves.  Out west tree stands are exclusive to archery hunters.  Needless to say archery hunting and hunters are not welcome on some large timber land owner property.

The value reduction from screw in steps nails spikes and the like will turn a $200 export log into $50 utility log in a hurry.  The hunter does not realize his steps just cost the landowner $150.  

[Ron Scott]

I guess you all answered with reasons why  "not to use" screw in steps, bolts, spikes, etc. for tree stands. Other that ruining the tree's quality, and yes they always seem to pick the best tree which becomes trash.

It's hard to get these trees cut due to  the safety hazards of trash metal left behind.

Sugar Maple trees (other maples also) that have been taped for maple syrup also cause a loss to the tree quality due to the tap hole. One needs to decide if their objective and economic value of the sugar maple is for quality hardwood logs or maple syrup, or some of both by not tapping all the trees.

Holes in trees are just not good for grade lumber as stated. They also provide prime infecion areas for some of the serious tree diseases such as oak wilt etc. that we are now encountering.

[Ron Wenrich]

Or you can go and turn those trees with tapholes into furniture.

http://www.moosemaple.com/Gallery.html

Some defects can be made into art.  But, not screw holes!

[Ron Scott]

Ron,

Thanks for the link on "Sugar Bush" trees as specialty wood for furniture. We now need some of the timber buyers and sawmills back here to get interested in such a market when "tapped" trees are available on a sale area.

[OneWithWood]

Thank-you all for the information.  If I wasn't dealing with family I would just say I do not allow hunting on the property.  In fact it is all posted very prominently with white posts and 'No Tresspassing" No Hunting' signs.  I enjoy my brother and he is really a great guy but sometimes I have to show him proof beyond just my say so that my demands are justified.
As for those folks who have no respect for another's property let's just say I have quite a collection of deer stands I have liberated over the years ;D.  I be hunting in comfort these days 8)

[DonT]

In Ontario it is illegal to construct a permanent stand on crown land.We do not allow permanent stands on our property and have tried to dismantle a couple of old ones.The older guys I hunt with do not like the looks of some of the portable stands.We have opted to build free standing stands.Four 4x4's  with a platform on top, make for comfortable stands that can be moved with an ATV,do not damage trees,and  are more comfortable for older hunters as the walls break the wind nicely.It was -18 degree's before wind chill one day last week and that can make for hard sitting if you can't get comfy.I use a ladder stand and find it works quite well.I agree that alot of hunters just do not realize the damage they are doing when they pound things into tree's,or maybe some just don't care  DonT