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Input for an aspiring timber framer.

Started by Mainecoast, April 15, 2020, 08:49:30 PM

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Mainecoast

Hi all, I have been reading on this forum for a few years now. I really enjoy following the rustic builds Fred in Montana posts. So I have finally joined the forum to try and seek a bit of guidance...I will tell you a bit about myself.

I have been working in the construction trade for the better part of 10 years. I turned 31 Monday! 5 years of the 10 I specialized in finish carpentry and custom cabinetry. For years I have been enamored with timber framing. I have a growing family and am currently self employed. Most projects that I get are general construction but with the idea that I build to last and to the best of my knowledge always..I have gone around the state (Maine) and interviewed a few professional timber framers. I try to gain information on how they did it and what it is they do. Most have been helpful and a few have let me know the market is too saturated and there is only enough work for them and the others established. Then they offer a job. I am not interested in a job mostly because i believe job stands for Just Over Broke. I have a rather large library of timber framing books and have a decent grasp of the concept. To gain knowledge I designed/cut/raised and donated a 12x12 (Jack Sobon Garden shed inspired) pavilion to a local school when they were rebuilding their playground. It was a great time and I learned a lot. When the rush was over I realized there was no real challenge in that project. It took just about 100 hours. I loved it though. I went on to build a pergola for a display and a sign for a business in town. But the is where business stopped with timber framing. I got more and more caught up in normal carpentry to pay the bills.

So here I am 3 years later....2 of the local timber framers closed up shop..one started working for a local GC and one went bankrupt. There are still two more locally that are doing well. I live  in an affluent community and I would love to cut one frame at a time and ship it around the world..I am ready to make a go at timber framing full time. I would like to focus on cabins and barns..maybe houses but I'd like to learn more before that sized commitment.

I am not sure what I am missing. Do I just need to market myself more as a timber framer and stop with the construction section listed on my website and card? Or maybe i do not know enough yet and that's why.... Maybe I am in the elimma of a Writer or Artist..they have to us the title them selves and practicing before people take them serious?

So I am trying to get the ball rolling. I was considering splurging the cash and going to Fox Maple's back to back class this summer and get more hands on experience and knowledge.

Or I can use that money to buy timbers and cut 2 small frames and set up at a fair/ farmers market or two. I would also revamp my website/cards and shirts to be very clearly timber frames...maybe I could land a few smaller projects from GC's and start that way. I currently work solo but am looking to have one apprentice maybe...I met a few framers who work mostly solo or with one. I don't want crews I want to be the joiner and assist with my clients.

PLEASE READ RULES ON POSTING


I realize this is a huge amount of text and thank you all who read and reply. So this is my story and I am excitedly waiting some feed back.

Thanks again,
Andrew

swmn

I don't think we are allowed to post links to other websites.

Can you put in another building somewhere for potential customers to walk around in?  If you send a enough adults to checkout the school playground someone will call the cops someday.  Maybe a gazebo in a public park?

Pictures, reviews and stuff of past projects are fine, but being able to walk around in a building made by the guy/team/company I am thinking about hiring would make a huge difference to me.

Good luck.

Mainecoast

Sadly you may be correct about sending the adults to the school. This being said on off hours the playground serves as a community play area for all. I am friends with the members who organized the whole thing and they also own a restaurant I assumed the more frames I got out into the world the better. 

This all being said thanks for the input and while building a small house is out of the question currently I am leaning more towards using my funds to build more frames rather than schooling even though Steve Chapplles book are fantastic! Building another pavilion or gazebo would be a good idea. That and on barn to use as my shop. 

Also I suppose I missed the section about not being able to link to my website.. It makes total sense that people would join just to advertise and that's not my reasoning. Lesson learned.

Thanks

swmn

Well what about a shop?  If you built yourself a timber framed shop to cut timber frames in you could have potential customers snoop around in there when ever you wanted.

Mainecoast

I am thinking building a shop and another possible display piece would be the ticket. That's a lot of throwing things out there though...the hard part is keeping income coming in, spending time with the family while working on our cabin/property and building the shop/display...but I suppose that's why there are so many days in a year right? I suppose the quote " Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like hard work" Thomas Edison...

This all being said does anyone else have any advise on how they start out? Did they invest in their own buildings first or did they study and try and land the first paid project? 

Brad_bb

So, I'm wondering why you want to do this.  I mean, I understand loving the craftsmanship, but there are a lot of issues too.

From what I've observed, the guys who are successful in the timber framing business don't end up working in the shop cutting timber frames.  They end up having to be the salesmen, working to get new jobs to keep the work as steady as possible.  It's not easy either.  They also end up doing logistics and all the work of running a business.  They have to manage employees, hire, keep up with all the state and tax paperwork, get material in on time, keep clients happy, help with design changes, have the tools needed, have the workspace needed and the list goes on and on.

The successful ones seem to make a living, but don't appear to be getting rich by any means. There are more lucrative businesses for sure with less headache with more reward. I think you have to really love it and accept all that. But the problem is you're kind of in love with timber framing, and the irony is that owners of timberframe shops usually don't have time to do any of the actually framing.  

The best way I see to get insight into this is to go work for a timber frame company for a year.  You'd learn a lot, both about being more efficient when it comes to cutting a frame, and how the process actually works and what the owner does.  If you did start your own company, especially if it's just you or you and one other guy, I think you'll find that your income could be quite unsteady.  Hopefully you're wife would have a good steady income to help support you for the years it would take to get established and build up.    And also hopefully the economy wouldn't downturn during that time and put you out of business.    

The business you're currently in I'm sure has a lot of competition and it subject to the economy also, but it's a little less specialized and therefore might be a little easier to find jobs and less learning curve for new guys.

Regardless of the issues, learning good timberframing practices, and all the tips and tricks you'd learn from working in a timberframe shop would help you become more versatile in what you do and what you could offer.  For example, if you were doing regular framing on a job and saw an opportunity to offer extras to the owner or GC- like a timber framed porch or shed roof over a door, or timber stairs, or faux braces or trimber frame(fake timberframe inside a stick built house).  Those types of jobs could help give you a fix, and be easier jobs to get without too large of a commitment.  It would allow you to float between the two worlds.  Almost two years ago I learned to hew.  I've hewed about 30 beams(for myself).  I start with a sawn beam and can get the same result.  It's a great skill to have and if you were floating between the two worlds and could offer - a hewn walnut mantle, hewn beams etc, it's another great skill in your toolbox that very few others will have.  It's not as hard as you might think if you are shown good technique.  Timberframing skills will make you so much more versatile.  You'll be able to offer things others cant.  

Take every thing I've said with a grain of salt as I have never owned a timber frame business or worked in one.  I have hired and worked with them a bunch and have been a guild member for a dozen or more years.  I took my first timber framing class in 2007 (Fox Maple).  Along with mallet and chisels we used circ saws, and chain mortisers and we got a lot of the engineering and material selection in that workshop.  I took a second workshop in 2009 that was all hand tools - hand boring machine, hand saws and proper technique for getting a square cut, bit and brace.  Very eye opening. That's where I found out I didn't know what I didn't know.  Learning proper old school technique for hand tools will make them a pleasure to use, build confidence that you didn't have and make you better with power tools.  I've since learned to hew, got a woodmizer and saw a lot of natural curved material and am learning how to scribe it and continue adding to the skill set.  Wood is so much easier to work with all the added skills, and it opens up so many possibilities. 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

flyingparks

Without a portfolio its hard to get a timber frame only business going. What I've done is taken on conventional projects and convinced clients to add timber frame aspects. Some are receptive and are really happy when they see the final product. It's going to be hard to compete with the big guys right off the bat but it's certainly possible to down the road after you have a bunch of projects under your belt. I'm just finishing a house in my neighborhood where I built a timber frame front and back porch. The clients got it at a discounted price because thats what I offered. Now a lot of people in the neighborhood are asking about it and even wants me to build a sizable house all timber framed. None have manifested yet, but the word is out. 
My two cents is that you really need to start small and acquire the expensive tools when you can afford them. I cant tell you how much I wanted a chain mortiser. It really made it special when I was able to purchase one and shelf my Snell boring machine. It took time and work though. A lot of people go big right off the bat but get hosed by a recession or something like a virus. 

Jim_Rogers

When I took my second timber framing class the instructor was asked by another student: "how can I get into the timber framing business?"
His reply was cut a small frame, like a garden shed. Either 8x12 or 12x16.
Erect it somewhere where people will see it. (I did this with two different size frames.)
Don't push the pegs in all the way so that you can remove them when you disassemble it to move to the buyers site.
Take pictures of it and put them on flyers to hang on bulletin boards with pull off phone numbers.
Track your flyer every week and replace it when the tags are gone.
Offer it as a studio for artists at a store that sell artist supplies.
Offer it as a one horse barn at feed and grain stores.
Offer it as a guest cabin at other places.
Someone will call you and say: "that's great but I need....." "Can you do that?" and you say yes I can. And you'll be in the timber frame business.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Hilltop366

Mainecoast carpentry now offering timber frames!

Porch, covered entry ways, gazebos, fire pit shelters, out door bbq kitchen/ dining areas, cabins, man caves, she shed, garden shed, play house, hen house........

Mainecoast

I just wanted to say thank you again for the helpful responses.

Jim, Flysparks, Hilltop, logman- These were the words that helped the most..I will rebrand, look for a public location to set up a great display with business information attached, and I won't buy any tools with debt.. I have just about everything (tools) I need to cut a modest size frame now..I could use a 16" saw, chain mortiser..Jim I bought a nice chisel mortiser from you about a year ago...I used it a few times and cleaned it up a bit and sold it to a contractor who has been on the look out for years now..he's helped me so i passed on the favor..I am thinking euro chain mortiser is what will serve best. 

Brad I mean no disrespect but reading your post really took the wind out of my sails momentarily...I had a business owner tell me the number one factor in success is persistence...day in day out..I am the sole provider for many mouths and have made that work out well..or well enough for now...switching to timber framing may actually help raise the income!! They say get rich in a niche...Thank you for your time and thoughts though..

I added some photos to my gallery. I'll post a few of my first projects!


 



 

 

 

The pergola I know look at in my backyard...I would consider it to be a work of folly and I don't know if i'd ever do it again..it doesn't serve anything or anyone..but I adzed/spokeshaved the curves! burned and oil the rest.

Brad_bb

Quote from: Mainecoast on April 18, 2020, 09:30:57 PMBrad I mean no disrespect but reading your post really took the wind out of my sails momentarily...
Well, I'd rather you consider the realities, or at least thoroughly investigate them for yourself up front before over- committing yourself and having your wind taken out along with a lot more damage to you.  I'm only telling you what I've observed, but my suggestions to further your skills and incorporate timber frame projects into your current clients projects are a way to further your skills and make more money, and satisfy your creative itch initially without over-committing your money or resources - a conservative approach. It's how I would start If I wanted to go that way.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Walnut Beast

Quote from: Mainecoast on April 18, 2020, 09:30:57 PM
I just wanted to say thank you again for the helpful responses.

Jim, Flysparks, Hilltop, logman- These were the words that helped the most..I will rebrand, look for a public location to set up a great display with business information attached, and I won't buy any tools with debt.. I have just about everything (tools) I need to cut a modest size frame now..I could use a 16" saw, chain mortiser..Jim I bought a nice chisel mortiser from you about a year ago...I used it a few times and cleaned it up a bit and sold it to a contractor who has been on the look out for years now..he's helped me so i passed on the favor..I am thinking euro chain mortiser is what will serve best.

Brad I mean no disrespect but reading your post really took the wind out of my sails momentarily...I had a business owner tell me the number one factor in success is persistence...day in day out..I am the sole provider for many mouths and have made that work out well..or well enough for now...switching to timber framing may actually help raise the income!! They say get rich in a niche...Thank you for your time and thoughts though..

I added some photos to my gallery. I'll post a few of my first projects!


 



 

 

 

The pergola I know look at in my backyard...I would consider it to be a work of folly and I don't know if i'd ever do it again..it doesn't serve anything or anyone..but I adzed/spokeshaved the curves! burned and oil the rest.
Good for you. Follow your dream and never give up!

Mainecoast

I had one more question maybe a few of you could shed light on...Joining the Guild as a business member...the price isn't to steep but it's not insignificant either. I would be listed on the TFG business directory and that could help bring in a few leads...I would guess one project would easily pay for the membership. Does anyone have experience with that bringing in business? I really want to go to a conference just need to commit to it one of these years! 

Thanks
Andrew

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