Introduction and my 1st timber project in Belgium

[velpenox]

Hello everyone!

I'm Filip 32yrs young, married happily to my darling bride that I know for 14 yrs now (she's still here apperanty :D, uh oh ...), from a small town in Belgium. I worked in different industries over my short career as car mechanic, staircase builder, CNC/conventional metalworker, 3D printing and robotics.
When I'm not at work I'm that kind of nutjob you can find tinkering on all sorts of stuff and it's time for me to build a workshop with lean to porch!

I've been to the Michigan area for work over the last couple of years (Sterling heights, Plymouth) and fell in love with the barns over yonder, the craftsmanship and quality of some is just amazing!
After a few decades of hard work, I've finaly saved enough smackeroos to build a timber frame workshop.

Where I live there are only a few companys that know how to build small timber frames (poolhouses, garden sheds), bigger frames as I would like is far from their comfort. Besides that, the timber provided by the majority of lumber yards is good for general roofing construction, but lack the quality and view of most timber frames I've seen in the US. The mindset of most people here is just different on wood.
That's why I've embarked on a mission to fin Belgium's golden gooses! gees, goos', geese, smiley_tom_dizzyguy01... whatever :D



Here are a few sneek peeks of my first layoutif I can find how to upload pictures. Enjoy!
Thinking of using European Douglas, Siberian Larch or Nordic Red Pine for framing, siding is probably going to be Canadian Poplar (this last one is found alot in Belgium).
All questions and comments are offcourse welcome! Jokes are too :D.

46'x26' with a 10' lean to
Red parts are doors and windows

[D L Bahler]

Your neighbors have very good timber resources that you can access, as well as rich timber framing traditions that you might want to connect to. Both France and Germany have long-standing timber framing traditions, and I know there are many German companies that do work all over the EU. They have their own unique styles of course. Southern Germans especially (Bayern, Baden-Württemberg, as well as Austria and Switzerland) have a deep love of wood and building with wood even today, and in Switzerland wooden building is undergoing a massive revival (I think this is also true in Bavaria) 
I know there are a few Swiss companies as well that are familiar with America style timber frames and have built a few of them (though something from the north of Germany or northern France might be pretty similar)

Unfortunately I know you can't do it right now, but I would definitely recommend a trip to southern Germany and Switzerland for inspiration when such things are permitted again, maybe get in contact with a few companies. (I'm pretty sure Germany is the same, but right now you as a foreigner cannot get into Switzerland. per the Swiss embassy : "As of March 26, the Swiss entry ban now applies to all countries except Liechtenstein. It also applied to air and land entry points.  Any foreign nationals who wish to enter Switzerland and do not hold a valid residence or work permit will be refused entry.")

[samandothers]

Welcome!  I look forward to hearing about your journey.

[velpenox]

Thanks for the tip DL Bahler! Exactly, everyone has to stay put in this crisis situation, it is a good time in terms of having time off to design stuff and get a bit deeper into framing.
We're not allowed here to go outside of our homes any other than work and food/medicine stuff.


Thanks samandothers! I hope to learn a lot and have loads of fun doing so!

[velpenox]

I was thinking to have a go at Fusion360 instead of sketchup while I'm at it.

Foundation with 8x8 half lap sill's, thinking about even making them 6x8.
Didn't design the mortises for the posts yet and also door openings.
Next step is how to get the design program to automatically change the mortises if I decide to redesign the post tenons.

[Nebraska]

Welcome, I will watch for more of your project. Looks like fun project.

[velpenox]

Last week was kinda busy, could not get much done for the barn other than having my soil checked  for the foundation.
Turned out kind of a party pooper...

Got some rich grey and light-brown clay soil and terrain sloping 1' high by 14' length, to make things worse they drilled up to 65' deep with 10 and 20kN and the guy was not optimisticsmiley_furious3.
At least I can build the barn 8" off ground by making my very own clay bricks (sarcastic note).

I'm now waiting on the report they're going to make where they'll advise to use a certain type of foundation.


I know some of you might think: Why go thru so much effort knowing what soil you have.:
Thing is, If you want to build anything larger than 430 sq ft. in Belgium, you are forced to call in an architect (most architects don't have stability engineering backgrounds).
The architect needs a verification on what type of soil you have by having an engineer check and verify so he doesn't get into trouble if the barn decides to fall apart in a few years time because of poor foundation.
So yeah, a lot of money spent before starting the build. 
I might add it's also nice to know what goes into all these stability researches.


It's just waiting on the results of my soil (feels like having a pregnancy test but for my soil, get it...).
Might have to change the overall design dimension-wise if it turns out my foundation is going to be super duper expensive.


Bare with me, lit some candles, say some hail mary's, write me a check...


More news to come!

[velpenox]

Ok, Finaly got the results and they are not in favor for a traditional slab.

• Traditional slab could move up to 2" over time, not ideal for having a porch attached to the workshop and might get water flood issues if garage door drops by 2" (terrain sloping towards building).
• Other option would be to dig out 8 - 1/2 feet for wall footing...
• Started searching on the web for some other solutions, turns out helical post foundation looks like a vaible option! Those posts could take up to 80kN a piece at 32feet deep. Added bonus = Dont need to excavate a heap load of dirt 

I was wondering tho on how to Frame upon these helical posts, Building would come it at 1.02kN/ft² and add up all additional heavy machines (without furniture, hand tools, things) around 60kN

• Having a concrete slab on top of metal I beams on top of the helical posts
• Not sure If wood would be an option, not wanting to treat all beams underneath in a crawl space over time.
• Suggestions are welcome!

I'll try to upload the soil report in the next days. 

[velpenox]

Have to put project on hold

[velpenox]

Allright, 
Back on track for the barn build!

Eventually I have a foundation of "19 wide with some interlocking concrete blocks on top that will be filled up.
Once that's done it's time for the last non-timber step: the slab.

I was looking to source some timbers locally (Belgium) but it seems I cannot sort out the one's i'd like to use, it's more like a "you take what you order" kinda deal.
Anyone here that might know someone/company in Europe where I could go get quality timbers, would be appreciated? 

[velpenox]

Hi all,
It's been a while but time for the next steps !
The concrete slab is poured and ready to start construction.

Since my previous computer died on me and I didn't have backups I had to start from scratch.

Design is a bit more simplified than the original because I could use the indoor space.
I've roughed out post and beams, but before I continue I'd like to have some input on beam size, especially the 21' span rafter plate which holds both roofs.
Currently the rafter plate is 8x10 but I'm afraid it won't be enough.
I'd like to keep this open design if possible.
The plan was to have an engineer calculate this, but all engineering companies in Belgium steer clear from timber framing.
Apperantly none of them do this type of calculations anymore for a private person or they're too far away (In Belgium it is mandatory that the engineer visits the jobsite).

So I hope I could get some input here



 

 

[Don P]

If you want to build anything larger than 430 sq ft. in Belgium, you are forced to call in an architect

Was this designed by a registered design professional?

[velpenox]

Hi Don,

The architects that I could find do not design timber frames.
That's why I was looking into hiring a structural engineer (which I cannot find).

I am currently reading books and this forum to figure things out, but can't find much on this (specific) rafter plate that joins 2 roofs/side loads.

[Don P]

OK, we're not in the middle of a working relation, fair game 

There isn't sufficient thrust restraint in that roof. A better way would be to use a ridgebeam that the rafters are basically hanging from. The horizontal reaction to the load goes away, It also reduces the roof area tributary to the beam in question. Which, yes, I believe will be undersized. Let's see what we're dealing with, what is the design snow load where you are?, Wind?( the site looks nice for "Exposure" not a barren plain) Species and grade of the timbers? 

I'm proposing a post in each gable end to support the ridge as well as one at the edge of the loft. That 21' span ridgebeam section will be the heavier of the two.

The rafter foot notch is doing its best to split the rafter, there's gotta be a better way. Get the heel of the rafter supported up on the beam. Sobon's "Historic American Timber Joinery" is online if you don't have a copy.

The gable end post at this end needs to run one piece to the ridge beam, or, that tie needs to be better built. Under load it has to stay in plane, its a hinged weak mess right now. Here's a few illustrations from another book online "Light and Heavy Timber Framing Made Easy", Hodgson, 1909, around pg 185 here;



 



 



 

[velpenox]

Hi Don,

Snow and wind loads are both about 20 lb/ft2.
Winds perpendicular to the (future ) ridgebeam on the opposing side of the lean-to.

A picture of the site with concrete slab poured on the left


The drawing was just a quick sketch of how I'd place the beams disregarding any joinery/lengths/braces.
Thanks for pointing it out tho, probably will end up using scraf joints.

Perhaps a bit of a far stretch/bad idea here, but was thinking perhaps of doing something like this to divert the load to the posts.
Probably the posts would have to be sized properly, in need of rafters in between and I'd need some rather beefy bracing , but just curious about the idea of something like this just to divert the load to the posts and making the roof more resilient to lateral loads.
Looks a bit like novice stereotomy if you ask me.

[Don P]

That's an interesting solution. At first sight I thought you were getting ready to add dormers and these were the valleys.