Safe room/Tornado shelter

[Larry]

Were building a new house on a slab.  Got the Fema book with plans for a safe room/shelter.  Think I going to use the plan with SYP covered with plywood and metal.  Has anybody built one or have a better alternative?

[Fla._Deadheader]

Fiberglass "Igloos" were becoming popular, when we still lived in Arkansas. Left there in '86.

  Supposedly, there is nothing for the wind to "grab", and a concrete footing will hold them down. ???

[Patty]

We put a tornado room in our basement when we built the house; it is solid 6" concrete.

For above ground, I know they manufacture "tornado shelters"  the walls and door of the "Two-Person" Tornado SafeRoom™"' are manufactured from 10 gage, galvanized steel panels, reinforced with 2 1/2" x 2 1/2" x1/4" angle iron The top is manufactured from 1/4" steel plate.The door, when closed, is secured by three of our patented "Saf-T" latches.
            
The "Two-Person" TornadoSafeRoom™ is 60" long x 30" deep x 55" high   It includes a bench on each end giving space for two large adults (or 4 small adults) and room for your lovable pet on the floor space between the benches or under each bench.
            
This room is manufactured with a low profile which, because of its' low height, catches less wind load, makes it much stronger and safer than taller rooms.

You can google tornado rooms and get lots of ideas.

[rebocardo]

I think the safest thing is to have a room below ground level, at least as big as 8x10 with an exit on two opposite ends, with an exit inside the house you can reach without exposing yourself to windows and with an exit six feet beyond the house in case the house caves in.

The steel doors open in and are barred top and bottom from within.

Inside the room keep bottled water, food, lights, batteries, CB, and basic hand tools such cross cut saw, hammer, screw driver, high lift jack, and a six foot piece of 4x4x1/4" steel. Along with clothes suitable for your climate (rain jacket etc.).

[Don_Papenburg]

10 Ga. is not in my opinion safe for a tornado  I would also call that sheet metal not steel plate   .  A week 22 could penetrate 10Ga.   I would only use something that Norms 50cal would not poke a hole into.

[ScottAR]

A friend of mine built one in his last house.  Filled 8x8x16 blocks with rebar
and a 6" cap for a ceiling.  He said if he had to do it again, he would have poured
the whole thing before the blocks on rest of the foundation were laid.

AR has a grant program for storm shelters.  Might look into it.  It's a big
selling point for a local dealer of the underground models. 

[Larry]

Sounds like your friend built something from the FEMA plans.  They have four different plans for a slab.  It does appear to be easier to build something if started before the slab is poured.

I've heard of the grant program but not sure of any of the requirements or details.

[Engineer]

I'm not in tornado area, although we have had a few come through and they are actually predicting them for tonight.  I would build a concrete underground room and use it for a root cellar when you aren't hiding from the weather.

[TexasTimbers]

underground has advantages and disadvantages. The ideal situation of for the saferoom to be both a saferoom and a useable space, preferrably more than storage space.

It's oaky to add a saferoom on a slab as an afterthought. Just pin it with min 5/8" rebar every 18" and make sure they extend up into the concrete walls at least 8". An F5 is not going to sweep it off the foundation if pinned properly.

I would (and in fact we are) use ICFs if I was not going to go underground. You can see our saferoom below. I'm running a little behind schedule as usuall. :

Ours is 8' x 14' long, attached to the kitchen, and doubles as the walk-in pantry. Those are 8" thick ICFs. Well, the i.d is 7.5" and the styrofoam forms are 11" thick o.d. If you do use ICFs, or any other means to form concrete, ensure that you do not allow someone to tell you it's okay to pour the cap (cieling)seperately. Insist on a monolithic pour.

I do not cotton to anything in a saferoom less than concrete. the saying down here is "If you are going to build it, build it for an F5." Texas A&M University has done more research on safe rooms than any other single entity I believe, so go to their website.

But FWIW, I don't agree with any type of plywood saferoom even the one on the Texas A&M site. I know that they can stop a 2x4 traveling at 100MPH, but I'm not convinced they can resist that old Oliver tractor, or that 20 ton Live Oak traveling at the same speed . . . . .




Hopefully I will get it erected prior to actually needing it. I don't think it would help us much in its current configuration.

[Don_Papenburg]

Tex Timbers ,  Those form in the picture will have too many" holes" in the concrete . What you will end up with is a concrete  waffel of sorts.  I would look into AArx (sp) or Reward ICF .  They give you a solid full concrete wall . 

[Handy Andy]

  A friend of mine built a house in OK for his daughter to live in and go to school. He built a saferoom from the styrofoam forms and poured it.  They have built in tabs to screw sheetrock to the outside, he just put a steel door in it, and a concrete top on it and it is a storage room otherwise.  You could just build the whole exterior from the forms, and screw siding on the outside, and SR to the inside.  They are kind of expensive though.  I checked cost once, and it was cheaper to have a basement contractor pour a basement than to use the forms and do it myself.  But in a basement, it doesn't have to be insulated, so it makes more sense to do this on a house exterior walls. 

[florida]

Have you seen the videos of the 2" x 4" going through the plywood wall? I believe it takes 4 layers of 3/4" ply  to stop a 2" X 4" at 50 mph. Concrete block isn't much better. Poured concrete, pre-cast slabs or blocks with the voids filled would be my choice.

[TexasTimbers]

Don,

Polysteel homes and safe rooms have survived dozens of tornados and hurricanes. There has never been a failure of a polysteel structure, and they have led the industry for 30 years. There may be a better wall design I don't know, but I will feel quite safe in the polysteel saferoom.

I love the Reward design too. It's funny you mention ARXX. Today, Polysteel and ARXX became one company. I don't know who bought whom, but they announced their official merger today according to my Polysteel dealer. He's a buddy of mine and i got the forms free of charge basically. otherwise I may well have gone with reward as I do love that design.

But AFA Polysteel being "weak" or anything, I don't agree with that even a little bit. There has been way too much engineering put into them, and a well-proven track record on top of it to try and make an argument that the forms are in some way lacking.

[zopi]

Being me, I'd build a partially underground root cellar out of concrete, and bunker it over..pretty much of nothing is going through several feet of clay earth and reinforced concrete....

heh..in keeping with my current dome kick...concrete geo dome, partly earthed over...<G>

[Don_Papenburg]

Tex ,  The only problem s I see with the poly steel is that some people do not do a good job of working the concrete into the cavities .  the other problem I see is the thermal bridge with the steel tiesystem .  It might not be a problem for you but up in the somtimes fridgid sub north contry  ,that would be a problem . I prefer the plastic ties .

[TexasTimbers]

Yes, on paper I guess it maths out to an actual number on the bridging, but I doubt you'd actually see it on a elec bill.

What you have is the sum surface area of the fastener heads, but you have to consider the loss of conductivity through the galvanized alloys. It just don't amount to a hill of beans really.

Not arguing that you don't have a valid point you do, just that i think it's mostly on paper.

Re the voids, if the slump is off then even reward will have them. Plus the upside to the Polysteel is that it doesn't cost as much to fill them and concrete is what . . . pushing $80 now? Yikes. 

The way I look at it is, F5 proof is F5 proof is F5 proof . . . .

[Don_Papenburg]

I did not know that they had Tornado ratings  for ICF foundations .  My 8" wall aught to hold up to a big one then .   One of the other things I like about the reward type form is that regular concrete can be used .  Pumpmix has to be used on the postand beam type . that adds to the expense. Concrete here is in the 80 to 95 dollar mark. But you have that covered with the deal on your forms. Build and be happy ;D

[TexasTimbers]

I don't think they do have ratings Don. That was just silly 'ol Kev saying he thinks it will hold up to an F5. Hope I never have to find out!

On a related subject, I bet you have seen the same thing, a weekend DIYer will go to the expense and trouble to contract the building a saferoom, and then consider skimping on the door when he sees the price tag on one.

"Can't a guy just make his own storm-proof door?" :

"*I* can fabricate my own steel door because I have the experience, knowledge and skills to do it,  but you are a stockbroker. Why don't you stick to selling electronic paper and just buy the door. It'll be way cheaper in the long run." 

And just for the record, as high as steel is, and as relatively inexpensive as a door is now, I would not use my time to build one either.

[Larry]

Texas Tech built this really cool gun to shoot 8' long 2 X 4's at shelters to test em.  Wish I had a gun like that...whata ya think it would do to a silo? :D :D :D

[TexasTimbers]

Yeah I said A&M but of course Tech is what I meant.

I bet you could lob a potato from Nob Hill all the way to Arky's sawmill shed with that thing. ;D

[ElectricAl]

2 years ago we started building a 32 x 72 slab on grade house with a 9 x 15 (6x12 inside) attached Safe Room.

The Safe Room is attached to the house by a 4' breezeway. We did not want the Safe Room to interfere with the building of the house. When the house was closed in we connected the two structures.

The Safe Room was constructed using EcoBlock ICF. The footing contains 10 cubic yards or 40,000lbs of concrete. The sides and top are 12" of 6000psi concrete, 20 yards, 80,000lbs. We doubled the recommended rebar amount just for.....Well, just in case
The top and sides were pumped at one time to eliminate a cold joint.
Then we had a custom steel door made that swings in.

The floor for the house is at the same level as the floor of the Safe Room. This is so everyone can be moved to safety regardless of their mobility status.  In fact the house is connected to the Saw Shop by a side walk and concrete road (450').
So it is possible to go from the sawmill building to the Safe Room in a wheelchair.

[TexasTimbers]

Great job. You made a good decision doing a monolithic pour.

Have any pics of the finished project?

[ElectricAl]

We covered the ICF with 1/2" dry wall. The trim is not done yet.

The Breezeway was a good place for the Central Vac Power unit.

We are still working on the landscape.

[Norm]

You know if I didn't know better I'd say that siding looked suspiciously like vinyl. ;D

[ElectricAl]

Norm,

You are correct. It's vinyl.

We needed to get closed in before the fall rains. Linda did 90% of the siding.


My 10% effort was up at the peaks.


Later on in a few years we may change to something else.
We really wanted the whole house covered in stone. But that would have taken a long time.
There are doors to make and all the trim, plus more dirt work.

I'm not giving up on the stone idea though.  ;D

[TexasTimbers]

Looks great. Thanks for the pics. My wife wants a central vaccum. If I'm going to do one I need to do it now.

Are y'all happy with it?

[Norm]

I'm only teasing Al. We tore off the WRC siding on our old house my son lives in now and put on vinyl. I don't care how much I love wood, up here it was a pain to care for and did a lousy job of protecting the outside of the house. Brick or stone may cost more and take longer but if you can they are the best choices for exterior finish in the great white north.

By the way your house is a beautiful! We're going to have to take a break, burn some evil ethanol and visit.

[ElectricAl]

TexasTimbers,

We are thrilled with the central vac system. There are lots of attachments available.

A couple things to remember....Get the muffler to quit it down, and put a 2x6 wall in between the living area and where the vac power head hangs.  Ours is quiet enough that someone could sleep while the vac is being used. It might be tough for some to fall a sleep while it's going. But give them a half hour to start dreaming about logs and lumber, and your ready to go.




Norm,

Linda and I talked about a mix of rock and wood siding, but the maintenance would be a killer. I have trouble getting stuff done that needs to be done now. Plus after fussing with wood at the mill all week the last thing I want to do is fuss with more wood on my half day off.
We have two loggers over this way who built log houses. 5 - 7 years ago they are continually hiring contractors to fix or refurbish the houses.

We caught the siding on sale at Menards. It was the best stuff they carry and still cost less then $2000.
I had a customer offer $1000 for the siding when it comes off. I bet it would cost $3000 to side the house now.

[TexasTimbers]

Thanks for the info Al. We have a great place for the unit behind a foam filled wall.

I'll Google up some brand/feature comparisons.

[ElectricAl]

This is why we have a Safe Room.

07-02-08  5:15pm CST

This shot was grabbed from our place looking NW.
What you see is the contents of a pond nearly sucked dry
Sheriff's Deputy reported the water was 600-800' in the air. ;D

[Don_Papenburg]

I have a Vacumaid  CVS . It is made in Nebraska.   Realy like it . I would not spend money on the floor vac pans or what ever they are called set by the floor to sweep dirt into . I think that useing the vac hose works better because there is less dust created.  I saved a lot of money useing 2" schedual 40 pvc insted of the thin vac pipe.  The wall conections(inlets) that I used slip into the 2" snug .  the thin wall fits inside the wall connections.   8' vac pipe cost almost twice the price of 10' pvc
pvc provides fittings that will let you install cleanouts ,and has longer sweap turns.