I'm going to be buying the 2 in 1 sharpening tool that Percy mentioned in a recent thread but that has been discussed numerous times according to my search. But the volume of chains we're going through cutting firewood has me wanting a bench grinder for when their beyond a touchup. I see several Chinese versions available and the Oregon. Anyone have comparisons or experience to share? I've looked at a couple of 12v ones but I'd like one to use in the shop. I had one in my sawshop back in 99-01 but don't remember the brand name. All I know is I liked it and made money with it. But now this is for us.
I finally got out to the shop and saw the 30 dull chains hanging their waiting for me to "fix". This old broken body won't hold up doing that by hand. And so I ask so that I can be part of the job out there.
I had a HF and also a Northern bench chain grinder. I looked at others trying to get one that was fast and accurate and didn't burn teeth. I was at the Stihl saw dealer a few years ago, and casually watched them sharpen a few chains with a Stihl brand sharpener bench grinder, and it was so easy and accurate compared to my previous experiences, the next thing I knew, I owned one. It's a great machine, I'm glad I got it as it will sharpen with the 10° top angle most Stihl chains have. The rock is a black one, and rarely burns a tooth, and there is absolutely no slop in the machine.
Do you have any more info Yellowhammer? According to Stihl's website they do not have a sharpener. Or I can't see!
Quote from: Grizzly on December 07, 2017, 02:48:14 PM
According to Stihl's website they do not have a sharpener.
That's what makes it more interesting, Stihl has their dealers use the good stuff, but they don't openly advertise or sell it. I asked my dealer how long he had it, he said he'd couldn't remember, but many years and then I asked him how many chains it had sharpened, and he shrugged and said that it was "thousands" and I started examining it and immediately noticed the pivot arm joint was still tight. His wife looked at me and deadpanned "you must have to sharpen a lot of chains." That was the end off the research phase :D and all it took to sell me. He opened a big dealer catalog and ordered me one.
I know some people don't like grinder sharpened chains, and I've had my share of burned ones with other sharpeners. I can sharpen fairly good by hand with a file, but when a chain has been rocked, or I need a bunch of long chains sharpened in a hurry (like for my 52" bar when I'm going big log splitting) I will fire this up and knock it out. I does a real good job.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/F0577DF8-3894-4ADC-B9C1-C287E223A4BB.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1512699578)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/EBF24CFF-532C-462C-AC5A-98C86ED73B9D.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1512699582)
There are at least two 110V Chinese grinders that abound. One is a small plastic unit that should be avoided and the other one is a 511 Oregon clone. I have the 511 clone, it happened to come from a non-sponsor retailer but is sold many places. It needed about 4 hours worth of tweaking to get it working correctly, mainly vise issues but has worked well since. The modifications needed have been written up by several people over the years but not sure if on this forum? Search "Chinese chain grinder mods" or similar and you will find threads on the subject. Although mine now works well I suggest you dig a bit deeper go with the real deal, especially if you want out of the box performance.
No matter which grinder you choose it will not do a good job on your chains if you dont keep the stone properly shaped and dressed. The Chinese issue stones are not very good, I use Oregon brand on mine. Most high volume users solve that issue by using a diamond wheel instead of a stone but the costs add up. A new Oregon grinder and aftermarket Diamond wheel will a good deal of cash as compared to a Chinese clone running a stone.
I get laughed at for this, but I use one of them cheap harbor freight chain sharpeners. Works fine for me. Yeah, its cheap flimsy plastic, but used within it's limitations it is adequate. Comes with a pink wheel, they last a long time, and yes you can burn a tooth with it, but that's an operator problem. Does the rakers also...
Quote from: pineywoods on December 08, 2017, 10:20:47 AM
I get laughed at for this,
Well I wont laugh at ya,
If you get along with it that means your a step ahead of most people cost wise including me. I looked those cheaper plastic grinders over and knew they are just too flimsy for me to get consistent results with them. I kinda slam the chains through my grinder vs taking the time to be careful about it. Actually I hand file 95% pf the time and the grinder only gets used when the chains needs major metal removal from hitting non wooden objects.
YH - that looks better than the one I had in the shop!
Butch - that was what I was picking up from the reviews. My problem is that me and low quality just don't seem to get along. My problem. I know. But I now take Dad's advice and always buy the best I can afford. It has taken much frustration out of my life. :D
Piney - you and father-in-law would get along good! He was always happy with cheap and did well. I'd grab his wrenches and have skinned knuckles and he'd just chuckle grab the wrench and do it with no harm. How????? >:(
So I'll take a look at the Oregon unless I get to a Stihl dealer and see what they can offer.
I might get a few laughs for my grinder too :D
This is what I use for my rocked out chains. Brings the cutters back to square corners real quick with just a light touch.
Then I finish just as quick with the round file.
I always tell my self "Never lose the feel for free hand filing."
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20140327_110718.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1395937713)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20140327_110549.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1395937625)
Yellowhammer, you're correct of ordering from Stihl dealers for certain equipment.
Years ago I saw a brand new Stihl bench mount chain breaker and spinner sitting on my dealers counter. I asked him "I want to buy those". He said "Only authorized Stihl dealers can buy those, their for my shop".
Next day I had to go back to this dealer for some chain and saw the breaker and spinner were still sitting there on the counter.
Only his wife was working the counter so I asked her if I could buy them.
She did and today they still work perfect, still on only the 2nd replacement anvil punch. ;D
Quote from: HolmenTree on December 08, 2017, 12:47:31 PM
Yellowhammer, you're correct of ordering from Stihl dealers for certain equipment.
and today they still work perfect, still on only the 2nd replacement anvil punch. ;D
They seem to give the dealers access to "pro grade" long lasting equipment for their dealership use, but have heartache advertising it to the public. The clamp system is very precise and secure, and pretty much a no brainier, which I need. For some reason, when I'm sharpening chains, or sawmill bands for that matter, I'm always in a hurry. :D.
Grizzy
I have a pair of old foley 308 grinders that I bought at a estate garage sale for $25.00 for the pair the person having the sale didn't know what they were. You could see they hadn't been used in years. Cleaned them up replaced the cords and have been using them for years. They work great. One is set for cutter the other for raker I would look at a Oregon with a hyd vise so you don't have to loosen the vise to move the chain ahead they look like a nice set up.
And even available on Amazon!
Stihl will sell a sharpener to anyone that has $699.99. Its a sellable item, i mean its not dealer item alone. Primary reasons its not advertises is its income for dealers and no one wants pay the 700 bucks.
Quote from: Texas-Jim on December 08, 2017, 08:00:16 PM
Primary reasons its not advertises is its income for dealers and no one wants pay the 700 bucks.
I was happy to pay the money if it meant the end of me ever fighting with chainsaw sharpening again. Its a matter of perspective, and everybody's situation is different. Like many people on this Forum, we run a sawmill business, lumber kiln and retail store front. After paying $1,900 for a sawmill band sharpener, (and another $1,800 for a previous one of lower capability that I later got rid of), $1,600 for a bandsaw setter, $1,200 for my last chainsaw, several others for $900 and up before that, over $200 for my last 48"+ bar, and about $60 per chain just that one saw, $30 for the other chains for the other saws, the price of a professional grade sharpener that sharpens the compound angles of the Stihl chains, and does a very good job, seems reasonable to me. All expensive equipment isn't good, but usually good equipment is expensive.
I can sharpen decent by hand, and do it routinely throughout the day, but I'm not great at it, and occasionally have to true the chains back up. Or sometimes, with several saws working on the log deck, bucking dirty logs, we get dull chains stacking up pretty fast.
It cost about $400 over the Oregon. That's a decent chunk of change, but I look at the cost of getting a very capable chainsaw sharpener as a worthwhile, long term investment. So far, its been exactly what I wanted, and I'm glad I did it. To each his own (old saying).
Robert now you look at a cbn wheel for it. Pm me and I'll give you a site to look at. Not sure I should put it on here.
Quote from: xlogger on December 09, 2017, 05:43:00 AM
Robert now you look at a cbn wheel for it. Pm me and I'll give you a site to look at. Not sure I should put it on here.
Ditto the advice for a cbn wheel.
Yellow Hammer a quality sharpener once you consider what it can do, its not a liability. It sharpens them right and exactly the same, i have tree folks here that i sharpen a dozen chains a week. 6 bucks isnt a lot but it adds up, i tried talk him into getting one but he said no. plus on those days you cant cut, stick a sign up for sharpening chains, it pay for itself.
Quote from: scsmith42 on December 09, 2017, 12:26:08 PM
Quote from: xlogger on December 09, 2017, 05:43:00 AM
Robert now you look at a cbn wheel for it. Pm me and I'll give you a site to look at. Not sure I should put it on here.
Ditto the advice for a cbn wheel.
+3
You won't regret getting a CBN wheel. No dressing to maintain the profile. No worries about a shrinking wheel (from dressing it) changing side to side adjustment to maintain equal tooth length, and best of all cbn cuts so much better it is difficult to "burn" teeth.
Do you have to use oil on the CBN or will it be OK when when used dry?
Yellowhammer
No oil is needed when using the CBN wheels. I have the 1/8" and 3/16" D.W. name brand.
My main sharpener was the Green one named Timberland or something like that, sharpened hundreds of chains for people with good results. I found the Oregon with hydraulic clamp feature on FleeBay a few years ago that a pawn shop had so i made them an offer of $200 and they took it, it looked like new when it arrived.
I kept the green one with a pink wheel just for cutting down rakers. I just sharpened 9 chains last night for a guy and made $50.
I have one customer that brings me 15-20 chains at a time and he pays me around $8 per chain, he usually rounds up the price to an even number and also brings a 12 pack of beer when he picks them up!!
Mn cutter
Does hyd clamp work good? I have two old foley 308 I use and kept looking at the ones with the hyd clamp and think I need to buy one with a hyd clamp.
I think an electric grinder is very useful for someone that has a lot of chains to sharpen. It doesn't eliminate chain filing, just is one component of chain maintenance. I've had several different brands of sharpeners and the Oregon 511AX is the best one but also the most expensive by far. The Oregon clone I have works well and if I were starting over, I would have settled for it. I even have the $30 Harbor Freight version. On the HFT version, the one they sell now with the bicycle brake chain clamp is nearly worthless in my opinion. I have an earlier one and still use it on my small chains.
The clone is set up just for rakers and the Oregon I use for .325 and 3/8 chains. I don't have to switch stones this way...
I had a Foley Belsaw grinder but never used it. Sold that one.
Hedgerow
Mn cutter
Does hyd clamp work good? I have two old foley 308 I use and kept looking at the ones with the hyd clamp and think I need to buy one with a hyd clamp.
[/quote]
Yes, the hyd clamp does work well. It takes a little bit of getting used to, you need to make sure you have your cutter pulled back against the paw/stop before you start bringing down the handle as the locking psi starts as the handle is lowered.
I tried to use the Oregon with hyd clamp for doing rakers and it was a PIA as i had to lift the handle up every time i wanted to move the chain slightly forward or back.
Sorry my bad.
Will the Stihl machine do the narrow pico (I don't remember the size) on the pole saws too? or just .325,3/8, and .404?
has anyone used a foley grinder? as far as the 511 oregon being the best i have one and i say no. its ok its assembled in Italy with the parts made in china
Quote from: ScottAR on December 17, 2017, 06:41:52 PM
Will the Stihl machine do the narrow pico (I don't remember the size) on the pole saws too? or just .325,3/8, and .404?
Here is a link to the sharpener setup and it lists all the chains, angles and wheels required to duplicate the factory sharpening geometry. The angle "B" is the one that few sharpeners can match.
https://www.stihlusa.com/webcontent/cmsfilelibrary/instructionmanuals/usg_sawchainangles_chart.pdf
The machine as zero slop. It is offered with a foot clamp accessory, step on the pedal and the clamp closes on the chain. I didn't purchase it, the hand clamp is good enough for me.
The thing about this sharpener, I spend a lot less time sharpening a lot more chains. Thats the way its supposed to work.
YH-perhaphs i missed it but did you purchase the stihl grinder? Im currently looking for something to replace grandpas old neilson grinder. i was considering the 511ax and possibly upgraging to the hydraulic lock.
i searched the forum for input if the hydraulic lock was useful/worth the extra $ and came across this thread. everyone please correct me if im wrong but the hydraulic lock seems favorable?? thanks
Yes, I've had the Stihl grinder for a few years now and it has turned chain sharpening into a non event. I didn't get the foot pedal clamp accessory, the hand clamp works fine. Here is a lengthy but interesting video that shows the USG Stihl Grinder that I have, which shows how well it grinds and the foot pedal usage. I don't know the guy in the video, but it shows how easy it is to fix a badly damaged chain. Of course, for a normal, in service chain, the sharpening process goes much faster. Either way, no burn. BTW, I hand file the rakers with the Stihl File Guide, I don't use the sharpener for that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nfMQWXDURA
No doubt, its expensive, and there are other sharpeners out there, but I would never buy another type after having this one. I don't expect it to ever wear out. :D :D :D
YH, thank you for the reply. I got mixed up and now see that it was grizzly who was looking to purchase a grinder. I hadn't considered stihl but I might look harder at them.
Grizzly have you pulled the trigger on a grinder?
Now I have a question for you guys, what size wheel do you use on a .325. I have seen both 1/8 and 3/16 recommend. Who has used both and what does a better job on it ?
Quote from: crazy4saws on January 08, 2018, 05:42:13 PM
Grizzly have you pulled the trigger on a grinder?
No. I seem to search out my stuff well ahead and then dream on it for a bit and then after a while I'll go ahead and buy something. So in a while I'll be back to report. My children say I'm good at talking myself out of buying what I need. :)
On another note. Some of you are using diamond or a hard wheel to grind chain. I'd like to find a hard wheel to put in my Cook's Cat Claw but so far no luck at all. One supplier will custom build one for me at a cost of over a thousand so I opted to not buy. Anyone know of something?
Hard wheel?
CBN I think is what there called. All i have is the standard abrasive wheels from Cooks and Suffolk.
There used to be a guy from Ireland that made some but I haven't heard anything from him in a long time. I had one and it was ok but I recently broke it so am now using the AO stones again.