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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: Redhorseshoe on October 21, 2021, 11:09:38 PM

Title: Skid steers
Post by: Redhorseshoe on October 21, 2021, 11:09:38 PM
My tractor with loader I've been using around the mill is no end to handy but just doesn't have enough muscle for lifting packs of lumber.  As such I'm looking for a skid steer but don't know how big of one to get.   My tractor has a working limit of about 1,200 lbs on the forks.  I know one guy who uses an 80hp terex around his mill but don't know if I need one quite that big.  I know bigger is always better but what's big enough to get the job done? 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on October 21, 2021, 11:59:06 PM
I have a Case 1845c, it is around 6500 pounds I believe. It is very handy, 60 hp I think. I can lift packages of 100 finished dimension pine 2x4x8 without any issue. 16' of the same will stand it on it's nose unless I have the over the tire tracks on, which give a lot of counterweight.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Crossroads on October 22, 2021, 12:13:19 AM
I believe my 65hp Gehl weighs about 7800. The working capacity is 2700 and the light in the tail end is 4200. Itís been a while since Iíve read the specs so forgive me if Iím off on anything, but I think Iím close. Itís a track machine and is a bit hard on the ground, but I like the stability. Itís not a fair comparison to judge it against my 18hp Kubota, but thereís really no comparison. For log handling and lumber handling the 65hp is plenty, but when it comes to moving dirt, I wish I had more power. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: ladylake on October 22, 2021, 06:08:10 AM


 You cant beat a Volvo or JCB with the side door around the mill. No getting out under the arms which is dangerous . My Volvo mct125c will lift a 870bf green stack of WO , and have picked up a log over 5000#.  Steve
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: SawyerTed on October 22, 2021, 06:43:46 AM
Itís overkill at 99 hp for just around the sawmill yard but because I use it for so many other things the Cat 299D works well here.  Itís a heavy machine at + or - 11,000 pounds.  But it handles big white oak logs without groaning. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stanmillnc on October 22, 2021, 07:23:46 AM
I've got a 68hp Bobcat T550 and it's perfectly sized for my operation. Can pick up about any log that I would want to have on my mill. Moving around stacks of lumber are not a problem. Also the T550 is a radial path lift machine, which I prefer to the vertical lift loaders. The radial lift path allows for greater reach, which is beneficial when loading and unloading logs from the mill. And they have greater pushing power. The vertical lift machines are more common as they are better for reaching high as opposed to outwards (loading dump trucks, dumpsters, etc.). You can quickly observe the difference in machines by looking at how the arms are setup - there is pivot joint linkage in the vertical lift machines.

My previous loader was 49hp and it was a little undersized. Had to make smaller lumber stacks than I wanted and couldn't load some logs without help of the hydraulic loader arms on my mill. I would think 80hp or greater would be overkill for most small sawmill operations.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: nativewolf on October 22, 2021, 07:31:46 AM
Also a track vs no track question , debated to death on lots of forums but basically cost of tracks and wear parts vs the options a track system gives (lift more, bad ground advantages, etc).  Not wanting to go down that rabbit hole but something you should consider.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on October 22, 2021, 08:16:06 AM
I'm actively looking also, more at a Compact Track Loader (CTL).  I've decided that the more hp the better considering every single time I try to buy a piece of equipment, I keep trading up until I get to the top limit.  

That would be my piece of advice to the OP, go big, and pay for it once.  It has happened to me with sawmills, tractors, trucks, etc.  So I'm focused on the 100 hp class.

Dealer proximity and practice is a major issue.  For example, I looked at the JCB side entry and they are nice.  However, the nearest JCB/Volvo dealer is in Chatanooga, more than a couple hours away, and after in depth discussions with him, even a warranty call is $500 for mileage (they charge both ways) and $500 for labor for the mechanic team to travel to service the machine here in Alabama, as his dealer warranty doesn't cover mileage, nor does it pay for the mechanics time while he is driving.  ?????????  The warranty only covers the cost of the warranty while he is on site and on the clock.  Ain't that a kick in the pants??  So if my $100 doo dad on my brand new $90K machine fails under warranty, they will gladly fix it and I'm out a grand anyway. Nope, not me.  That's a non starter. 

On the other hand, my New Holland dealer, who only sells Kubota CTL's, (tells something about NH machines) doesn't charge a dime for labor or transport on warranty calls but they are only a few miles away.

I have also found there is a difference on the details of the warranty and also the extended warranty.  Some have extended warranty coverage on the DPF systems, some have a reduce warranty, or some don't warrant some critical parts at all (like the EGR valve). 

So another piece of advice:  do the research.     
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Patrick NC on October 22, 2021, 09:25:52 AM
I use a cat259d ctl  almost every day at work. Great machines and will lift a lot. Only complaint that I have is getting in and out. I'm a fairly big guy (6'3, 260lbs) and if I'm in and out a lot during the day it can get tiresome. I've used the same machine around the mill and it will pick up way more than it should.  Visibility can be a little tough sometimes if you have a large log or stack of lumber on the forks. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Satamax on October 22, 2021, 11:04:53 AM
Guys, just one question, over here in the french mountains; huge tractors are unsellable.

Stuff in the 120/200 hp range, nobody wants these.

Are these cheap where you are? I guess in the great plains, they're not. But in more hilly places?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Tom the Sawyer on October 22, 2021, 11:16:46 AM
Other than my personal car, dealer warranties have never been a consideration for any of my equipment (all bought used).

When looking for something to move things around the mill, my first criteria was the capacity of my mill.  It was manufacturer-rated for logs up to 36" diameter and loads not to exceed 5000 pounds.  I figured that anything I bought should be able to manage those parameters.  Anything more would be overkill, and even those at the limits weren't that common.  I figured that if a client brought me a log that was within my capacities (for practical purposes I have limited that to 30" and 4000 pounds), that I better be able to handle it. 

I ended up with a piggyback forklift (Princeton Teledyne D-5000), lifts up to 5000 pounds, flotation tires, turn on a dime, great visibility, and doesn't tear up my gravel lot.  I also have a skid steer to back up the forklift (Bobcat S250).  It has a tipping load of 5750 pounds but I hardly ever use it for logs.  It has a heated cab but the door limits your ability to get out if the load is more than a few inches off the ground, it tears up the ground, and the visibility is horrible.  Other than doing some grading or moving the mill out from under cover for mobile jobs, it gets no use.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: scsmith42 on October 22, 2021, 11:36:11 AM
I have a John Deere 270 skid steer.  It weighs 8500 lbs, has 82 gross hp and an operating load rating of 2,800 lbs.  I would not want anything with a lower lifting capacity (but I work with a lot of large diameter logs).

If I was in the market for a new CTL today, my top two choices would be a large Kubota or Takeuchi.  The JCB's with the side door would be worth looking into as well, but the Takeuchi and Kubota both have a great reputation for quality and have some very powerful machines.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on October 22, 2021, 12:51:02 PM
Guys, just one question, over here in the french mountains; huge tractors are unsellable.
Are these cheap where you are? I guess in the great plains, they're not. But in more hilly places?
Not that I've seen, they are are bank breakers, big payments here in Alabama.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: boonesyard on October 22, 2021, 12:52:33 PM
We have a Kubota slv95, big machine, but never have an issue moving anything around the yard, wonderful rig. What I also like about the Kubota is they are still pilot controls. Very smooth and not jumpy like our other fly-by-wire machines which most newer machines have gone to.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on October 22, 2021, 02:42:31 PM
Stan, I think you are mistaken regarding part of the comparison regarding vertical vs radial lift. Iirc, there may be a point in the lifting arc of a radial machine where it reaches farther- but at just that point. The whole vertical part of the vertical lift machine refers to the fact the the bucket pivot point travels up in a vertical plane. The radial machine's pivot point follows an arc, so it reaches the farthest horizontally from the pivot of the loader arms. On the ground, I can say from personal experience that vertical lift machines reach both higher, and farther out. The drawback is all of the extra linkages and such. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on October 22, 2021, 02:51:15 PM
I'm currently looking at the Kubota SLV97-2 (Big entry door, not a ton of legroom and near 100 hp and the Deere 333G (more cab room, smaller door, more hp, reversing fan, better lifting).

Actually I'm looking at all of them, and I'm big on buying new, with full warranty and dealer service ("Come get this thing, it ain't running") and versatility away from the mill, on the farm or property, for use as mulching, road and fence maintenance etc.

I have found that one of the biggest obstacle to sitting in one is actually getting to sit in one.  Most dealers are out of stock.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on October 22, 2021, 04:14:23 PM
Lots of guys in my area run ASV and like them alot.
The cabs look very small to me.
Guys on u tube like the Takeuchi machines. 
I looked at a wacker/newson it had a lot I liked about it.
My friend runs one of their compact wheel loaders for the highway department and likes it.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on October 22, 2021, 04:31:51 PM
Go big.  Bobcat s300, cat 299, kubota 95, case 90XT, new holland LS190 etc.  If you are a holder-onner id go with rubber tires and OTT tracks as needed.  


Long term track frame ownership gets spendy.  Someone just mentioned only getting 200hrs from an $1800 track. Then theres frames, idlers, tensioners, final drives, rollers..  Forget all that. The skid steer was invented to GET AWAY FROM undercarriage expenses.  4 tires is under a grand and lasts for years if youve got a plug kit. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on October 22, 2021, 05:43:21 PM
Case has some giant skid loader coming out this fall
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on October 22, 2021, 06:40:03 PM
DL550B?   Ive been waiting to hear about those.  That and the kobelco bladerunner are some real impressive crossovers.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 230Dforme on October 22, 2021, 07:29:37 PM
Good evening
In response to your post, you mentioned only lifting
of material. Skid steers have many other uses 
obviously 
From a previous business, I have a Gradall 524
forklift, 6000#, extendable boom, 4WD
It is extremely useful across the board
I would like to have a skid steer too, but the
prices asked for used are steep, and they are tough
to maintain / repair
I am a bit surprised that rough terrain fork lifts
are not mentioned more on the forum 
I bought mine used 30 years ago and still going 
strong 
I have a number of very good pieces of heavy equipment that have been purchased for less
than than I can buy a skid steer of questionable 
value and condition for
Just my observations 




.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: btulloh on October 22, 2021, 07:40:38 PM
Yes, rough terrain forklifts are great. You give up some versatility but get a better functioning forklift. Around here I donít see them for a reasonable price for a decent used one. I keep looking though.

What type is yours?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 22, 2021, 08:06:36 PM
Case has some giant skid loader coming out this fall
Itís a TV 620B itís weight is 16k and only 114 hp. Way under powered and will sink like a rock in soft ground. Bobcat has a big T96 coming out. But the King of the hill ASV 135 Forestry will be Released in December itís weight will be 12990k and 132 hp with the MAX cab 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Larry on October 22, 2021, 08:53:59 PM
A couple of guys that I saw for have CTL's.  One is a Bobcat T650 and the other is a new, but little smaller Kubota.  I really like the AC and stereo on the Bobcat!  Both max out between 500 and 600 board foot.  The guy with the Bobcat hires a helper to stick and stack as I saw.  With 600 board foot of 8 or 10' lumber on the forks the driver is completely blind.  A second person must walk alongside to guide the driver.  By the end of the second day the work site is either a dust bowl or a mud pit.  The Bobcat is really loud with high flow on, one must crank the stereo a couple more notches.

I have a 6,000 pound lift Moffett truck mounted forklift.  It can get off road but not as good as a 4 wheel drive pickup.  Side shift and the forks extend.  It can do most of the work around a sawmill except for two things.  No grapple to pick logs out of trailers with sides, and sometimes its tricky dumping slabs.  Oh, and no stereo!  I got my lift about 10 years ago for $7,500 and haven't put a penny in it for repairs.  My friends are both in the skid steers for close to 50 grand.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: btulloh on October 22, 2021, 09:03:21 PM
7500 is a great price for a moffet like that. Nice.  If I could find one for $10k around here Iíd be all over it. Not finding one though. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stavebuyer on October 23, 2021, 02:42:50 AM
Good evening
In response to your post, you mentioned only lifting
of material. Skid steers have many other uses
obviously
From a previous business, I have a Gradall 524
forklift, 6000#, extendable boom, 4WD
It is extremely useful across the board
I would like to have a skid steer too, but the
prices asked for used are steep, and they are tough
to maintain / repair
I am a bit surprised that rough terrain fork lifts
are not mentioned more on the forum
I bought mine used 30 years ago and still going
strong
I have a number of very good pieces of heavy equipment that have been purchased for less
than than I can buy a skid steer of questionable
value and condition for
Just my observations




.
Excellent point especially since the OP has a tractor that would work just fine for handling sawdust and grading the yard. Skid steers are a very versatile platform but in no way compare to a machine like yours for sawmill chores. Yeah its fun to turn on a dime but the fun stops when you realize half the machine needs to be taken apart to find and tighten a leaky hose. Its also dangerous to be underneath frozen/muddy/debarked logs with only a piece of plexiglass to keep it out of your lap. Yeah you can swap to grapple and fight the hoses and trying to work around bolsters. Been there and done that. Grapple brush or drill post holes and a million other chores they are the got to machine. Many better options for logs and lumber. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Satamax on October 23, 2021, 03:00:23 AM
Guys, just one question, over here in the french mountains; huge tractors are unsellable.
Are these cheap where you are? I guess in the great plains, they're not. But in more hilly places?
Not that I've seen, they are are bank breakers, big payments here in Alabama.
Ok, thanks a lot. I was talking about secondhand. Not new. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on October 23, 2021, 07:30:13 AM
I have a NH 230L skidsteer, it's 90 HP with tires. It will pick up around 4000-4500 LBS. It was fine around my mill until this past winter and everything got so wet that I could barely go get logs. I went and got a JD 333 track machine. Paperwork says it has a tipping load of 10570 LBS. I think that is a lie and it will lift about 8500 LBS. Based on what my 10000# forklift will pick up. I know I put 1280 bf in a stickered pack of 16' pine lumber and the forklift will pick it up and walk off. The JD CTL will walk up to it and say nope. I know that the CTL is faster around my mill due to the fact that the tire machine seems to spin its tires a little when changing direction, a lot more the wetter it gets. When you are in production mode it is never a good thing to spin your tires.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on October 23, 2021, 09:10:31 AM
What kind of scheduled repairs and maintenance do these machines require?  I understand that they generally need new rubber tracks at 1,000 or 1,500 hours, which isn't much different than the tires on my tractor, for about the same price.  What about undercarriage parts, rollers, drives, pumps, etc?  The dealers I have all talked to say about the same thing, that the commercial users sell them any about 2,500 hours before they have any real problems, which would indicate they are pretty reliable up to then?  That doesn't seem to be much different than anything else I've owned, 2,500 or more hours and things start breaking.  Is this accurate?

My Deere dealer sells a $2.5K warranty that covers the bulk of the machine for 4 or 5 years (not wear items) but I don't remember the hours.

In my case I have a strong tractor/skip loader hybrid machine, a Cat forklift, but am looking for a CTL for its versatility to fill the gaps where the other pieces of equipment aren't optimized.

For example @customsawyer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1861) who has both a wheeled skid loader and a track loader told me that just changing to a tracked unit for the exact same task of emptying bins of sawdust and loading trailers decreased his time a surprisingly large amount, for the exact same task.  Maybe he can fill in the details.  

That's why I'm interested in a unit, to speed up my process in certain areas, and also for its versatility around the farm.     
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on October 23, 2021, 09:55:56 AM
Jake, do you like to screw around?😂

I'd like to try out that new Case, it looks like an animal!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on October 23, 2021, 12:24:06 PM
The skid steer I have has been much better than the tractor I had for work around the mill yard.
I do miss some things with the tractor.
I have a kubota L series lined up to buy when my Uncle moves West year round.
Skid steers are fast at moving logs and lumber around.
If you can get in and out of them.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: farmfromkansas on October 23, 2021, 09:11:35 PM
I bought a new Case 60xt in 05.  It was the last one that came from the factory to my local Case dealer.  Got a 2000 discount for buying the old model.  It is 75 hp, and will lift most of what I do, but not all.  Find it very handy around the farm for small dirt jobs, piling manure, loading truck and spreader, lifting totes and such.  Really helps to add a little weight on the rear. Almost forgot building fence, really is great for digging post holes, and lifting posts into the hole.  You have power down digging holes, and with a hydraulic powered digger, if you get it stuck in the ground, just unscrew it, and go a little slower.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: forcemac on October 23, 2021, 10:47:21 PM
I started out looking for a skid steer and stumbled on an older Willmar Wrangler compact loader.  Came with pallet forks, a bucket, and universal quick attach.  Found a nice Faver brush fork grapple elsewhere.  I am lifting 3000 lbs logs no prob.  With the Pallet forks maybe let a little more, the Faver brush fork is pretty stoutÖheavy.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/63897/52C8A20E-D6E6-4304-B83C-B0AADE6B26B0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1635043729)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on October 24, 2021, 07:02:30 AM
Part of the time savings I get from the track machine is the speed that it goes from one direction to another. I never realized how much the rubber tire machine slipped its wheels in loose or wet soil conditions. The other time savings has nothing to do with the tracks. It is that the joystick direction control has a lighter touch. The NH machine tends to leap forward more when you push the joystick forward, this might contribute to the tire spin. If you have a pallet of lumber and are putting it on top of another pallet it is very difficult to easy forward or backward a half inch. I rarely move full packs of lumber with the skidsteers anymore since I have the forklift. I do use the skidsteer or lull when loading trailers as lots of customers have sides on their trailers and the forklift don't tilt far enough forward. Like this customer yesterday had me put 25' lumber on a 16' trailer. I think it bent his tailgate a little just getting out of the yard.




(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/20211023_102123.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1635073125)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Oliver05262 on October 24, 2021, 08:34:23 AM
Boy Howdy, I hope he didnít go very far or very fast with that load! The tail would be wagging the dog pretty hard. BTDT and it wasnít funny at all.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on October 24, 2021, 09:09:27 AM
Its all fun and games until you joust a sign or pole in a tight turn
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: SawyerTed on October 24, 2021, 12:23:37 PM
Yikes!  No front braking power and limited steering!  Thatís just not something I would try!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on October 24, 2021, 12:36:10 PM
I forgot to mention that this past Tuesday I was down at the Ag show in Moultrie, GA. I got to climb in a lot of different machines. They wouldn't let you run them due to all of the folks around. I still don't fit in a Kabota very well but I couldn't find out if it was the new larger cab or not. The Case and NH were basically the same machine on the inside, same buttons, same screen. I didn't do much comparing of the outside of the two machines. I know Case and NH merged several years back so they are probably coming off the same line. The JD was the same as the one I have so no need to crawl in it and look around. There was a Cat machine there but I didn't look at it as I'm not interested in them.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: luap on October 24, 2021, 01:04:57 PM
my son just took delivery of a brand new kubota slv92 The dealer only is allowed one machine a month and has a waiting list. Fortunately it was a short list so only had a two month wait. ordered with a 60"disc mulcher, grapple bucket,forks, forestry rated front door. Just a few thou over a 100 grand with tax. We are very pleased with it so far and are mulching brush piles left from old grown up pasture clearing and we did with a small excavator last year and  was two dry to burn with burn bans in place. practically no construction machines of any kind on his lot. Said he would buy back the excavator he sold me last year.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Patrick NC on October 24, 2021, 04:09:05 PM
I forgot to mention that this past Tuesday I was down at the Ag show in Moultrie, GA. I got to climb in a lot of different machines. They wouldn't let you run them due to all of the folks around. I still don't fit in a Kabota very well but I couldn't find out if it was the new larger cab or not. The Case and NH were basically the same machine on the inside, same buttons, same screen. I didn't do much comparing of the outside of the two machines. I know Case and NH merged several years back so they are probably coming off the same line. The JD was the same as the one I have so no need to crawl in it and look around. There was a Cat machine there but I didn't look at it as I'm not interested in them.
If you ever run the cat machine you'll never look back at the other brands. Sure there are some that are faster,  some lift more, etc. But cat puts it all together  better and more comfortable. The company I work for has 25 CTL's and there all cat. We've tried several  brands,  but cat always seems to come out on top.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on October 24, 2021, 05:13:01 PM
Cat machines have become very popular on construction sites, I'll say that much. I haven't been in any of the newer ones. My "daily driver" was Cat's original MTL, the 287. It was sent up to ASV in Grand Rapids, MN (where I worked) to be outfitted with an ASV undercarriage. It was a great machine, I'm sure it had seen some torture testing as the tracks sat skewed, as if a massive amount of weight had been sat on the machine. It didn't affect anything and the tracks didn't wear to one side or anything. Now this has been quite a while ago, so I don't know how many things on them are different now. For one, I don't think they are available with the ASV undercarriage anymore. Second, that machine had true pilot controls, I think they have switched to electro-hydraulic now. One thing peculiar to that machine, which was different than the Case machines I had always ran prior, is the Cat had load sensing hydraulics. On the ground, that meant that at first I thought it had very little power both pushing and lifting.  The problem was I was running it like a Case, if you were going into a pile hard and started to drag the engine down, you better back off the controls quick or you'll kill the engine. The Cat needed the sticks full forward apply the power to it. Once I realized that I started going right through tri-axle piles of gravel😁 If I was buying a newer skid tomorrow, I would take a look at Cat machines for sure.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on October 24, 2021, 06:47:59 PM
@luap (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=44791) 
Did you have a mulching head on the mini excavator?  So the CTL with disk mulcher was good enough that you stopped using the mini?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: luap on October 24, 2021, 07:10:12 PM
We are still using the mini but it does not have a mulching head, basically pulling each stem out and then the root balll with bucket and thumb. If you try and grab too much you end up pulling stems up and hitting the cab-don't want to break  any glass. One thing is there are no root runners left  to resprout. There is nothing left after the mulcher grinds it up, so it is much faster. Time will tell on how much resprouting we get.









Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Patrick NC on October 24, 2021, 07:17:12 PM
Cat machines have become very popular on construction sites, I'll say that much. I haven't been in any of the newer ones. My "daily driver" was Cat's original MTL, the 287. It was sent up to ASV in Grand Rapids, MN (where I worked) to be outfitted with an ASV undercarriage. It was a great machine, I'm sure it had seen some torture testing as the tracks sat skewed, as if a massive amount of weight had been sat on the machine. It didn't affect anything and the tracks didn't wear to one side or anything. Now this has been quite a while ago, so I don't know how many things on them are different now. For one, I don't think they are available with the ASV undercarriage anymore. Second, that machine had true pilot controls, I think they have switched to electro-hydraulic now. One thing peculiar to that machine, which was different than the Case machines I had always ran prior, is the Cat had load sensing hydraulics. On the ground, that meant that at first I thought it had very little power both pushing and lifting.  The problem was I was running it like a Case, if you were going into a pile hard and started to drag the engine down, you better back off the controls quick or you'll kill the engine. The Cat needed the sticks full forward apply the power to it. Once I realized that I started going right through tri-axle piles of gravel😁 If I was buying a newer skid tomorrow, I would take a look at Cat machines for sure.
Yep. Cats are made to be run like you think you should.  The farther you push the control,  the more power you have. As it should be.   
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on October 24, 2021, 10:12:38 PM
A conventional hydrostatic system makes peak torque at minimal flow, thus minor swash plate angle has max torque, and you are the compensator.  



I will take a guess that the compensating systems, whether pressure or flow compensating, probably have the means to pull back the swash plate for you so that they dont stall the engine out under peak load.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on October 25, 2021, 06:11:57 AM
I like some Cat equipment. My backhoe is a cat. I've just heard several stories around here of problems with their skidsteers and telehandlers. Maybe they have the problems fixed.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on October 25, 2021, 07:46:35 AM
I've got at Cat forklift.  It's been very reliable, but I don't see very many Cat CTL's locally on job sites, although Cat has two big dealerships here locally.  I see mostly Kubota and Deere equipment when I drive around.  

I went to the Cat dealer a couple weeks ago and when I asked if they had one for me to look at and sit in the guy just laughed, and said he had not seen one himself for awhile.   
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: luap on October 25, 2021, 10:34:23 AM
The dealer called us and had arranged  a demo with one of his previous customers so we could actually try the machine. Relationship and distance from dealer was a prime consideration in brand of machine to buy. Whatever the dynamics of the market are and availability of a machine mean a lot. I don't see that changing any time soon.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Ventryjr on October 29, 2021, 06:23:24 AM
GET A KUBOTA. only brand you can open the door with the loader arms up.  Very important if you like having a cab.  I was using a combo of tractors. Compact 30hp Deere. A 8n and a Ford 555 backhoe.  This setup worked good. But I just bought a svl-75 CTL. I can pick up 4-16íx18Ē green hemlock logs at once and easily maneuver onto my log deck.  Also makes short work of making a driveway.  Hydraulic quick attach. radio. Cab. 2800lbs working capacity but it will pull the machine right into the pile of millings before it runs out of power. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: thecfarm on October 29, 2021, 06:49:49 AM
Kubota, can you get parts for it? I had a Kubota, had to wait 2 weeks for parts!!  ::)  :o :(  >:(  In that order too. This was from 2 different dealers here in Maine.  Notice the "had" word too.  ;D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on October 29, 2021, 07:28:44 AM
I'm still looking at everything I can in person, including articulated wheel loaders, metal track loaders, backhoes and mini excavators.  

I'm not in a big hurry, and its interesting that I still haven't found anything quite as versatile as a CTL for such a variety of jobs around the sawmill and the farm.  I've seen specs that a CTL it will handle slopes up to 35į without issues (Cat is rated for 45į as far as I can tell), it will move dirt (I move a lot of that), cut ditches and maintain fence lines (I maintain several miles give or take), move logs, run a bush more or mulcher, and other tasks.  A CTL will do these fairly easy.  

While mowing some of our roadsides and hill sides this weekend where I was sliding down the hill and leaving skid marks, I pulled out my cellphone and measured the slope angle and it was 18į.  I went to my tractor manual and its tip over angle was listed at 20į.  I felt better, because at least I was smart enough to stop and head to the barn.  I'm too old for that.  

However, as people have stated, I haven't found anything with as cramped a cab and as high maintenance as a CTL.  Locally, in Huntsville, I have a Deere, Cat, and Kubota dealer.  

I noticed while I was driving yesterday that a rental shop in town had an ASV CTL, so I would assume they are dealers for them, but I didn't stop to ask.  I haven't heard a lot about them, but from what I've read, they are nice machines, with a very good reputation, but high maintenance and expensive track system.  I would appreciate any feedback on them.  I'm also debating my decision on 100hp machines.  I have since learned that machines in the 70 hp class don't have to deal with lots of the EPA Tier 4 equipment, which is a bonus.  Thats one reason why some brands use the 70 hp class as a cutoff (Volvo).    
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: nativewolf on October 29, 2021, 08:27:34 AM
I have an SVL 95-2 and while it is a nice machine buyer beware- they have massive DEF fluid regeneration issues.  Huge.  

The 75's might have different engineering, not sure, but with the 95 it is so bad that they have so many recalls in place that they won't tell you it is recalled, they wait for complaints.  Like you have a tractor trailer scheduled and all of a sudden, out of the blue, it won't maintain power because the fuel system can't supply the huge supply of extra fuel it wants to regen and it wants to regen all day.  So you have a truck that takes 5 hours to unload, and one *pithed OFF truck driver.. and are out the other 3 loads he should have hauled...and then you spend all day on phone with Kubota and ...like magic you receive a recall notice in the mail.  Oh, and you cant drive it...oh and it takes them 1 month to get a service truck out there. Oh and they still want their check.  Oh and it is a 5 hour repair.  But yes a nice machine when it is working.  I'll be filing a small claims court issue on the recall on complaint problem I had.  I didn't know that was a thing, recall on complaint.  Cost us over a thousand in trucking and a month of lost machine time.  

Another common fail point- the fuel system line gets clogged because the fuel line  does a hard 90 just before it gets to the fuel filters - debris clogs there.  You can remove the debris with a narrow long screw.  Better yet install a screen (not a filter) in line on the fuel line before it gets to the main filter housing.

  
I have not seen so many complaints with the bobcat skid steers and they have the same power.  Bobcat is owned by one of the Korean conglomerates but they mostly leave it alone to make great equipment.  Today I'd probably look at a bobcat instead of a Kubota.  I like the Kubota power- the 95 is a big heavy skidsteer but the tracks keep it from being too problematic.  The suspension is hard- look into that.  It is not the best solution for everyone.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: nativewolf on October 29, 2021, 08:29:06 AM
@Nebraska (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=45256) I think you know about he ASVs that YH has just seen. I'm also curious as to the current status of them.

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on October 29, 2021, 09:39:30 AM
price out tracks, track frames, idlers, tensioners, final drives, bogeys on some of them and a wheelbarrow full of bottom rollers before you buy a track machine.  then price OTT tracks on rubber carriage.  before you pay it off, its gonna need UC work.

id rent a rubber track.  id own long term a rubber tire. and i will never own a regen.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: luap on October 29, 2021, 11:29:07 AM
interesting that on the new kubotaslv97-2 that the def reservoir is behind a separate locked access door. Apparently their attempt to encourage the operator to follow instructions on how to service the machine as everybody reads and follows the manual right? Makes me wonder when  various complaints are voiced how much is due to awareness of the operator versus machine design. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on October 29, 2021, 11:48:37 AM
In my personal experience, nothing comes close to the flotation and sidehill capabilities of the ASV undercarriage. It's been quite a few years since I have been operating construction equipment full time (10+ years), but I haven't seen much change in the basic u/c designs of ASV vs other manufacturers. I think Bobcat has a torsion setup in their uc rollers, Cat uses a torsion mount on the front of their uc to attach to frame. Other than that, everything is a rigid mount, rigid uc as far as I know. The ASV just sticks to sidehills where other machines slide. Flotation on soft ground or sand is also unparalleled. I'm not an ASV "fanboy" either, they are very high maintenance/cost but the performance is superior. If I was just digging, loading and such like a construction site or using it around the lig yard, I'd probably go with the lower cost of the rigid uc machines. If I was mowing on varied terrain, ASV all the way. YH, if you have a rental place local, I would recommend renting an ASV and trying it out for your sidehill mowing, I think you'll be impressed. I've had them on sidehills that were so steep that people that were watching went to get their coworkers to come watch, too😂  Steeper than a machine should be on, makes the hind end sore trying to stay in the seat on stuff like that, but the point us the tracks still grip in those conditions.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on October 29, 2021, 01:04:45 PM
You are talking about the asv bottom with the bottom rolls paired on rubber tosion bogeys, inners and outers, right?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: farmfromkansas on October 29, 2021, 01:46:05 PM
Kubota bought out Great Plains Manufacturing a few years ago, and now they have purchased the old Phillips lighting plant in Salina KS, and are setting it up to build skidsteers.  So expect to see a lot of orange around.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on October 29, 2021, 03:27:28 PM
Yessir, Mike.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 29, 2021, 03:29:20 PM
In my personal experience, nothing comes close to the flotation and sidehill capabilities of the ASV undercarriage. It's been quite a few years since I have been operating construction equipment full time (10+ years), but I haven't seen much change in the basic u/c designs of ASV vs other manufacturers. I think Bobcat has a torsion setup in their uc rollers, Cat uses a torsion mount on the front of their uc to attach to frame. Other than that, everything is a rigid mount, rigid uc as far as I know. The ASV just sticks to sidehills where other machines slide. Flotation on soft ground or sand is also unparalleled. I'm not an ASV "fanboy" either, they are very high maintenance/cost but the performance is superior. If I was just digging, loading and such like a construction site or using it around the lig yard, I'd probably go with the lower cost of the rigid uc machines. If I was mowing on varied terrain, ASV all the way. YH, if you have a rental place local, I would recommend renting an ASV and trying it out for your sidehill mowing, I think you'll be impressed. I've had them on sidehills that were so steep that people that were watching went to get their coworkers to come watch, too😂  Steeper than a machine should be on, makes the hind end sore trying to stay in the seat on stuff like that, but the point us the tracks still grip in those conditions.
Absolutely right! ASV is king and about to get even better with the new 135 Forestry (132hp) coming out with the MAX cab system like the current MAX 75 s. The new 135 will have 119 hydraulic hp to the head. 66 gpm. Four inch wider, eight inch color display, 55 gallon fuel tank and more. Like I said the others will mulch but when you get on the various mulching sites you will find out in a short time that ASV in the skidsteer game is the best. There are actually two true skidsteer Forestry mulchers itís the ASV Forestry and the Lamtrac units.  There is a reason CAT doesnít call there Land Management unit a Forestry one. And the proven track system on the 120 ASV will remain on the new one.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on October 29, 2021, 03:34:36 PM
Like I say, I'm not an ASV fanboy but in my experience that undercarriage will go places and do things that others won't, as simple as that. They are more expensive to run, too. So you have to charge more per hour🤷‍♂️ I am liking what I see in some of the design elements of the newer machines coming out from them. They used to be the exceptional (imo) undercarriage but the machine itself seemed to be kind of an afterthought. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 29, 2021, 03:39:27 PM
I'm still looking at everything I can in person, including articulated wheel loaders, metal track loaders, backhoes and mini excavators.  

I'm not in a big hurry, and its interesting that I still haven't found anything quite as versatile as a CTL for such a variety of jobs around the sawmill and the farm.  I've seen specs that a CTL it will handle slopes up to 35į without issues (Cat is rated for 45į as far as I can tell), it will move dirt (I move a lot of that), cut ditches and maintain fence lines (I maintain several miles give or take), move logs, run a bush more or mulcher, and other tasks.  A CTL will do these fairly easy.  

While mowing some of our roadsides and hill sides this weekend where I was sliding down the hill and leaving skid marks, I pulled out my cellphone and measured the slope angle and it was 18į.  I went to my tractor manual and its tip over angle was listed at 20į.  I felt better, because at least I was smart enough to stop and head to the barn.  I'm too old for that.  

However, as people have stated, I haven't found anything with as cramped a cab and as high maintenance as a CTL.  Locally, in Huntsville, I have a Deere, Cat, and Kubota dealer.  

I noticed while I was driving yesterday that a rental shop in town had an ASV CTL, so I would assume they are dealers for them, but I didn't stop to ask.  I haven't heard a lot about them, but from what I've read, they are nice machines, with a very good reputation, but high maintenance and expensive track system.  I would appreciate any feedback on them.  I'm also debating my decision on 100hp machines.  I have since learned that machines in the 70 hp class don't have to deal with lots of the EPA Tier 4 equipment, which is a bonus.  Thats one reason why some brands use the 70 hp class as a cutoff (Volvo).    
The ASV Max RT 75 HD would be a good fit for you if your not mulching everyday. Awesome machine, can run a mulcher very good and can do everything incredible
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 29, 2021, 03:58:11 PM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/BF8FF70A-9ABD-4D41-82AD-41D02CD92A8C.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1635536894)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on October 29, 2021, 04:08:35 PM
So when you this say more expensive to operate, I guess when the tracks wear out at 1,000 hours the undercarriage needs replacing also?    
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on October 29, 2021, 04:58:55 PM
I called the nearest ASV dealer, (I've never talked to him before) he's about 45 minutes away and he fed me some info, so take it with a grain of salt and correct me if it's wrong.  He sells the ASV 75 HD, which is already set up for mulching and says yes they repair them, and he hasn't noticed any unusually high undercarriage work.  I asked him why rental companies use them and he said because people are hard on rentals, and he's seen them come back with hunks taken out of the rollers (are they steel or rubber?) and they keep working.  He says they are easy to change, also.

Also, he confirms what people say, they have a very soft ride, and he keeps one himself for use around the company yard for moving things.  Says they are very handy.

Anyway, I may go out and look at it.  He has one on order, but says it isn't scheduled for delivery until Feb, but says ASV puts a priority on delivery as soon as a customer's name is on it.  He also said that ASV has been bought up by Yanmar.  

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stavebuyer on October 29, 2021, 06:50:33 PM
Be sure to determine how much time and trouble it takes to get in and out of the machine, change the oil, battery, and fuel filters as well as how you will put the track back on when it comes off to the inside while on that 20+ slope chocked against the stump that threw it off.

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Nebraska on October 29, 2021, 08:14:25 PM
@nativewolf (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24089) 
Wasn't me it was fellow Nebraskan  Walnut Beast.   I have a skid steer, an old 1816 Case repowered with a Briggs and Stratton.   Renting one of those ASV skid loaders is as close as I will get, unless I hire the Beast... :)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 29, 2021, 08:52:53 PM
Be sure to determine how much time and trouble it takes to get in and out of the machine, change the oil, battery, and fuel filters as well as how you will put the track back on when it comes off to the inside while on that 20+ slope chocked against the stump that threw it off.
Guys mulch with these day in and day out! You donít have to worry about a track coming off in a ASV thatís a fact! They can but itís rare. Thatís why they guarantee it. Iím a big guy and quite honestly I find it easier than getting in and out of my wheel loader I had.  In some aspects I can see the forks better than the wheel loader at different heights. Crawling and standing on the 20Ē tracks are nice to get to the top of the cab.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 29, 2021, 08:59:03 PM
I called the nearest ASV dealer, (I've never talked to him before) he's about 45 minutes away and he fed me some info, so take it with a grain of salt and correct me if it's wrong.  He sells the ASV 75 HD, which is already set up for mulching and says yes they repair them, and he hasn't noticed any unusually high undercarriage work.  I asked him why rental companies use them and he said because people are hard on rentals, and he's seen them come back with hunks taken out of the rollers (are they steel or rubber?) and they keep working.  He says they are easy to change, also.

Also, he confirms what people say, they have a very soft ride, and he keeps one himself for use around the company yard for moving things.  Says they are very handy.

Anyway, I may go out and look at it.  He has one on order, but says it isn't scheduled for delivery until Feb, but says ASV puts a priority on delivery as soon as a customer's name is on it.  He also said that ASV has been bought up by Yanmar.  
Yes the HD is for mulching. The independent bogies are rubber. The open design is setup to kick debris and stuff out. They can get chewed up and still function the same no problem 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on October 29, 2021, 08:59:49 PM
As @Walnut Beast (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=49695)  says

ASV has a two-year prorated warranty on their tracks, and also a 2 year derailment and reinstallation warranty which I haven't seen a comparable warranty on any other machine. This is their warranty on tracks below.  Otherwise they have a 2 year bumper to bumper, and sell a 5 year warranty.  I'm going to look and investigate the warranties on the other machines. 

From ASV: In the event of a track derailment, whether as a result of a defective part or component failure, or derailment in the course of normal use of the loader, ASV Holdings, Inc. shall provide reinstallation and repair in accordance with ASV's Limited New Product Warranty statement. In addition, ASV shall provide on-site repair within a 50 mile distance or 1 hour drive time, each way (whichever occurs first) from authorized ASV dealer. 

Otherwise, I can't really use a wheeled skid steer on my slopes, they are steep enough where my 4wd tractor, my four wheeler and zero turn tires just spin going up.  I need a set of tracks.  I have seen dozers all over these slopes, they were used to build the roads and dam, all day long, but I don't have a dozer and nothing wheels can climb them.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 29, 2021, 09:02:36 PM
So when you this say more expensive to operate, I guess when the tracks wear out at 1,000 hours the undercarriage needs replacing also?    
A lot depends on track wear if you do three point turns turning or doing cookies and what material your on. Warranty is 2 years 2000 hours everything 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Gary_C on October 30, 2021, 01:44:14 AM
Back in January I bought a 2016 JCB 300 skid steer with about 450 hrs. and just love it. I've not previously wanted a skid steer because of the problems of getting in and out of them with two repaired knees. I first saw the JCB with the side door some years ago at a pulp mill (it was a rental used for cleaning out frozen chips from chip trailers), got in it and decided it was the only type of skid steer I would buy. I talked to a lot of skid steer owners and the only downside I heard (other than scarcity  of local service) was that single arm loader would bend. However I talked to the dealer and he said they had never had one bend and anyway they had a lifetime guarantee on the arm against bending.

It has I believe a 74 HP engine that is actually de-rated to stay under the 75 HP cut off for needing the DEF system. That's all the power I'll ever need and it's rated lift is 3000 lbs which is supposed to be half the tipping load. It weighs close to 10,000 lbs. The disadvantage is I cannot put tracks on because it would block the door from opening on the left side but I did buy a set of chains for the rear tires for pushing snow this winter.

JCB does have a tracked model but what I would really like to have is their Teleskid with an extendable boom which is really nice for loading and unloading trailers, but those are a bit too pricey for what I need right now. The JCB has the most room in the cab of any skid steers I've tried.  

PS: I look around for available units and found 1) there are few available right now and 2) the price for used ones like mine has gone up about $15K from last winter.
Some good information on use of a Teleskid.
Did We Buy the JCB Teleskid? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ltom04MGS-o)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on October 30, 2021, 10:56:15 AM
I got to look real hard in person at how the robot booms were built one time years back and was impressed.  I doubt theyre a weakness.  Flopping a conventional bobcat will easily bend the boom.  Mine is. Dont dare pull the pin to fix a grease zerk. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on October 30, 2021, 02:52:30 PM
That's a bunch of bull on bending one of the jcb arms
They have made Loadalls for years with the same type set up. 
I put my money on a standard skid steer type arms bend first.
They must have a Patten on it or everyone else would be doing it. And they know if they could build them that way they would.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: jimbarry on October 30, 2021, 05:04:04 PM
Cat MTL 257B2 earns its keep every single day.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20210404_112326-sawmill-skidsteer-grapple-hemlock.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1635627837)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: nativewolf on October 30, 2021, 05:41:49 PM
@Nebraska (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=45256) - sorry bout that- funny how the mind connects things and I'm glad walnut beast chimed in, I knew we had an honest ASV proponent somewhere.  

@Walnut Beast (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=49695) - that new ASV sounds like a crossover to the smaller special purpose CMI 125s or small lamtracs.   I would be very interested in seeing one of those in 2 years.  Could be a game changer.  

I'd like to see a different head on it though.  Wonder what it looks like with an FAE head?  You'd have all the advantages of a skidsteer quick connect implement package and the ability to go mulch if needed.  If the tail has some weight I bet it would do fine lifting a log. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Patrick NC on October 30, 2021, 07:23:06 PM
ASV does build a good undercarriage, I'll give them that. CAT has been using it for years on their MTL machines( all skidsteers with numbers ending in 7. 257, 277,287, etc). But all of their CTLs (numbers ending in 9. 259, 279, 299,etc.)have a Cat undercarriage with steel rollers and different tracks. The ASV undercarriage just wouldn't stand up to the abuse of running in highly abrasive environments such as crushed stone or sandy material. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: jimbarry on October 30, 2021, 08:05:06 PM
Undercarriage...been there, done that.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20201120_113045-skidsteer-rebuild.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1635638601)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20201110_113806-skidsteer-rebuild-undercarriageexplodedview-marked.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1635638640)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20201029-skidsteer-rebuild-undercarriage-rightside.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1635638586)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 30, 2021, 09:45:01 PM
ASV does build a good undercarriage, I'll give them that. CAT has been using it for years on their MTL machines( all skidsteers with numbers ending in 7. 257, 277,287, etc). But all of their CTLs (numbers ending in 9. 259, 279, 299,etc.)have a Cat undercarriage with steel rollers and different tracks. The ASV undercarriage just wouldn't stand up to the abuse of running in highly abrasive environments such as crushed stone or sandy material.
Disagree.  People do it all the time. The bogies can be destroyed and still run fine. There are companies that make all metal ones for the ASV. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on October 30, 2021, 09:46:09 PM
Well, that stack of parts looks pretty expensive...

How many hours before you did the rebuild?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 30, 2021, 09:56:10 PM
That's a bunch of bull on bending one of the jcb arms
They have made Loadalls for years with the same type set up.
I put my money on a standard skid steer type arms bend first.
They must have a Patten on it or everyone else would be doing it. And they know if they could build them that way they would.
I thought the same thing but a guy that was looking at one for mulching was looking for opinions and two different guys that owned them twisted them from mulching 🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 30, 2021, 10:08:16 PM
Do you think ASV is going to have a two year/2,000 hr. warranty on everything plus the track system if everything needs replaced before that all the time by the dealers under warranty. There are guys running much longer than that and less. Many variables on the tracks and undercarriage of all makes 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Gary_C on October 31, 2021, 12:47:39 AM
That's a bunch of bull on bending one of the jcb arms
They have made Loadalls for years with the same type set up.
I put my money on a standard skid steer type arms bend first.
They must have a Patten on it or everyone else would be doing it. And they know if they could build them that way they would.
I thought the same thing but a guy that was looking at one for mulching was looking for opinions and two different guys that owned them twisted them from mulching 🤷‍♂️

So a guy you know talked to a couple of guys he knows that claimed to have twisted not one but two arms?

Just can't imagine why we might NOT believe those third hand tales.  ::)

Got any pictures? 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on October 31, 2021, 03:21:06 AM
Well, that stack of parts looks pretty expensive...

How many hours before you did the rebuild?
Thats about half the pile of parts under an ASV/cat bogie bottom. Look at microfiche for part 372-5769
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 31, 2021, 03:33:17 AM
That's a bunch of bull on bending one of the jcb arms
They have made Loadalls for years with the same type set up.
I put my money on a standard skid steer type arms bend first.
They must have a Patten on it or everyone else would be doing it. And they know if they could build them that way they would.
I thought the same thing but a guy that was looking at one for mulching was looking for opinions and two different guys that owned them twisted them from mulching 🤷‍♂️

So a guy you know talked to a couple of guys he knows that claimed to have twisted not one but two arms?

Just can't imagine why we might NOT believe those third hand tales.  ::)

Got any pictures?
The twisting they weíre talking about was just twisting or flexing not bending 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Patrick NC on October 31, 2021, 09:47:26 AM
Do you think ASV is going to have a two year/2,000 hr. warranty on everything plus the track system if everything needs replaced before that all the time by the dealers under warranty. There are guys running much longer than that and less. Many variables on the tracks and undercarriage of all makes
I am in no way knocking ASV or their undercarriage. It's a great system designed for speed and high floatation.  I'm just making observations from what I've seen personally.  Around here a machine with an ASV undercarriage is going to be used in a forestry or landscaping application 95% of the time. Most construction sites are going to have machines with non ASV track systems.  I've used both and each has their place. If I'm going into an area that I need a light footprint,  it will certainly be an ASV ou cat MTL. The cat 259 CTL won't come close to going where an ASV style will in soft ground.  But on the other en of the spectrum,  heavy pushing and abrasive material is where the cat CTL system really shines. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Brad_bb on November 02, 2021, 01:26:21 AM
Sorry I haven't read all the responses, but I'll say that a skid steer would not be my first or second choice around the mill.  The visibility with forks is not good on skid steers.  Also tracked skid steers are not nearly as smooth a movement as say a rough terrain forklift, which would be my recommendation.  I have a small Farmall BN forklift conversion that will lift 2500LBS and has great visibility.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 02, 2021, 08:16:06 AM
I agree, itís not optimized for a sawmill alone, but I have other primary equipment for that.  I want something that can do what my sawmill equipment canít, and for that matter, only a tracked vehicle has been able to do.  However, I want to be able to use it as a backup or secondary for my sawmill equipment.   

I havenít found the perfect machine, as usual.  However, I have learned quite a bit of very valuable information from this thread and a couple other here, so thank you everyone for their input.  

Iíve looked at two dedicated wheel loaders, with a minimum of 6,000 lift, I would prefer 8,000 lb, high maneuverability, low maintenance, and easy access would work well on flat ground.  I use a New Holland custom built skip loader style hybrid tractor with 6,500 lift and itís great, but it uses wheels.  I also have a 6,000 Cat forklift for use around the mill, and it has the minimum lift capacity I can really use.  Iíve used and looked at several dedicated wheel loaders, but none can take any kind of slope, as they have a high center of gravity.  They all use wheels, and I have lots of slope on our farm, with 3.5 miles of fence where wheels wonít work, and donít want to invest a $100,000 in single use machine that canít go everywhere and anywhere with attitude.  I have slopes where even a 4wd Polaris will spin all four tires and just sit there.  I keep trying my New Holland, and it either spins 4 tires or tries to roll over.  So Iím done trying that.  So for years I have neglected earth moving, mowing, brushing, mulching, etc and am more leaning toward a machine to do what I canít do right now, which would require tracks, and also use it as a secondary machine for the sawmill.  I even had a couple ďslopeĒ mowers brought out to try, but they all have wheels, and four wheels simply spin, and I canít cut ditches or push dirt with them anyway.  One reason I want to push dirt is to turn some of the nasty slopes into not so bad slopes.  

However, I have rented dozers before, for weeks at a time, for thousands of dollars, and they will traverse everything I own and even do significant work.  However, I donít want a bulldozer, they have limited attachments, and I canít use them around a sawmill.  I run a business and canít just stop work to run a dozer for weeks, year after year,  I need something I can use a day a week on the farm for 5 years, and then use it the rest of the time for the sawmill.  

So Iím looking for a cross between a wheel loader and a bulldozer, and the only thing I see that fits the bill are Compact Track Loaders.  My measured slope angles where I start to get into trouble are about 18į and thatís where a wheel vehicle about rolls over or tires simply spin.  Iím getting too old for that.  

There are a few CTLs that have the lift capacity I need, the Deere 333g and Bobcat seems best, with boom breakout forces in the 8,000 range.

The JCB has by far the best entry which I really, really like, with a side door and even an extend a boom, and even though the dealer is a long way away, it doesnít come close to the lift capacity I need, they only weigh 7,000 lbs by themselves.  I have contacted the JCB corporate to see if Iíve missed something.  So far, nada.  If not for that, Iíd probably get one.  

I really like the ASV MTL style track, but ASV doesnít have the lift capacity.  I need a machine that can lift as much as my other machines, preferably more. Iím not that worried about the higher maintenance, I would be using it in a ďwood lotĒ scenario, at the sawmill and the farm.  Iíve looked at the ASV 120, but new, with attachments, itís well above my $100,000 budget.  Again, if not for the lift capacity, Iíd probably own one of them, also.  

I hired a guy who said he could do anything I needed with his backhoe and he almost died, twice, before I sent him in his way.  He had wheels, and I needed tracks.  Scared the crap out of me, and it only reinforced the ďno wheelsĒ plan.

Iíve looked at trackhoes, full size track track loaders, minis, etc and it still seems a CTL is the best fit, but I canít find one thatís easy to get into, has a nearby and competent dealer, has the required lift capacity, and is under $100,000.

So Iím kind of ďstuckĒ.  



Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: wisconsitom on November 02, 2021, 09:09:14 AM
Those CTLs sure are nice machines.  Kid used one to excavate our pad for building.  No slope where this is, but just a good digging/leveling machine.

This one said Cat on it.  I can't remember the model.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: OH logger on November 02, 2021, 09:58:26 AM
Iíve got a 2 year old Bobcat T870. Awesome machine that I see NO reason to replace with a different make or model. Pm me if you have any specific questions 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Gary_C on November 02, 2021, 03:56:01 PM
The JCB has by far the best entry which I really, really like, with a side door and even an extend a boom, and even though the dealer is a long way away, it doesnít come close to the lift capacity I need, they only weigh 7,000 lbs by themselves.  I have contacted the JCB corporate to see if Iíve missed something.  So far, nada.  If not for that, Iíd probably get one.  

  

I'm kind of surprised by that. The JCB Teleskid 3TS-8T weighs 12,615 lbs. and has a rated tipping load of 10,558 lbs. The rated capacity is 3,695 lbs. and I don't know how different manufacturers rate their machines but I think it would do everything you need. 

Go to jcb.com/teleskid and book a demo and find out.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 02, 2021, 05:30:12 PM
The JCB has by far the best entry which I really, really like, with a side door and even an extend a boom, and even though the dealer is a long way away, it doesnít come close to the lift capacity I need, they only weigh 7,000 lbs by themselves.  I have contacted the JCB corporate to see if Iíve missed something.  So far, nada.  If not for that, Iíd probably get one.  

  

I'm kind of surprised by that. The JCB Teleskid 3TS-8T weighs 12,615 lbs. and has a rated tipping load of 10,558 lbs. The rated capacity is 3,695 lbs. and I don't know how different manufacturers rate their machines but I think it would do everything you need.

Go to jcb.com/teleskid and book a demo and find out.  
Gary is correct. There are three different models in that weight range give or take a few thousand pounds. YH I would take a hard look at the JCB for sure. For what your going to do all around plus sawmill the side door is a game changer if you have the loader up in the middle and need out. All of the bigger units are going to lift more in the lower positions. As for the fifty percent tipping load. It is calculated when the bucket is fully loaded at full extension. Itís been awhile but I think Iím correct on that.  I donít think your going to go wrong with any of the bigger units they are all pretty nice
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 02, 2021, 05:43:06 PM
Sorry I haven't read all the responses, but I'll say that a skid steer would not be my first or second choice around the mill.  The visibility with forks is not good on skid steers.  Also tracked skid steers are not nearly as smooth a movement as say a rough terrain forklift, which would be my recommendation.  I have a small Farmall BN forklift conversion that will lift 2500LBS and has great visibility.
Maybe some makes but  with pilot controls on all the ASV and CAT units I had they where just as smooth and precise as the wheel loader. Plus in the computer you can adjust boom speeds up and down on the ASV
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: luap on November 02, 2021, 05:54:30 PM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54791/20211020_142211~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1635889784)


 <br

>






(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54791/20211020_142211.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1635889360)
Decal on the front says stand 300 feet away and they are'nt kidding. If I knew how to do the tube thing, I have a couple of videos of the wood chips flying. 








Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 230Dforme on November 02, 2021, 06:13:07 PM
Good evening 
Not replying to all of the discussion, I donít have a
skid steer because I think they are an overpriced 
piece of equipment used, for my use
I do have a skidder, Gradall 524 forklift and other
equipment 
My favorite though, for Yellowhammer, is my dozer
a Dresser LGP TD9 w risers and a ripper
Donít need the ripper, but have receiver hitch on
it, great for moving trailers around and may fabricate an arch for it
Always happy to be on the dozer, one piece of the 
equipment puzzle 


















Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: scsmith42 on November 02, 2021, 09:10:26 PM
Robert, add the Takeuchi TL12v2 to your list. 111 hp.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 02, 2021, 09:23:18 PM
I agree, I may be reading the charts wrong.  I have a call in with the JCB mothership, to find out the answers. 

From the JCB brochure, their biggest unit, the 3TS-8T weighs in at 12,618 lbs.  Itís Rated Operating Capacity is 3,695 which I believe is their 50% capacity so full capacity would be 7,390 lbs which isnít bad.  Itís also rated at 74 hp, which is the lowest hp for any 12,000 machine Iíve looked up.  

It lists a tipping load of 10,558 retracted which is good.  

One the other hand, their documentation lists ďLoader Lift capacity RetractedĒ as only 5,187 lbs, which I also think is their breakout force, or what it can lift off the ground. Thatís too low, I need 6,000 lbs or so, I have logs I canít lift now, and my packs of wood are based on the lift capacities of my other machines, which are higher.  In contrast, the 333G Deere has a bucket breakout or lift force of 8,300 lbs.  This tracks very closely with Jakeís estimate that he can lift 8,400 lbs.  

Based on their documents the max lift with the loader extended is just 3,706 lbs, and a ROC extended of only 1,614 lbs which isnít much at all.  Also, apparently, the machine will not run, on purpose by design, any kind of mulcher or auxiliary hydraulics when extended, which is what I would really like. So I have lots of questions for the JCB rep.  I may look at their non extendable version.  Of course, the nearest dealer is a painful $1,000 warranty drive every trip according to the dealer.  That can get expensive real quick.  

I have been looking at the Kubota.  

I have a Bobcat dealer in town, I need to go look at an 870.  

I havenít looked at any Takeuchi machines yet, I will give them a visit.  

One other issue Iím dealing with is Iím 6í5Ē with an artificial hip, and some of these machines seem to be built for slightly smaller folks.  So cab and door size is important.  For example, the Deere 333G has a terrible entrance, with the door frame tapering to only a foot or so wide at the bottom door threshold, which actually made it difficult to get in.  However, it was roomy once I got inside.  

Anyway, I appreciate everyoneís input, I thought I would be able to just pick one and go with it, but there are lots of trade offs.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: OH logger on November 02, 2021, 09:49:45 PM
Been looking and investigating JCB skid loaders to replace my open cab bobcat 175 at my yard. Want a cab and Need to get in and out with boom up so I thought I was destined for a Kubota. Like the looks of JCB. Anyone here with experience with em? 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 02, 2021, 11:39:12 PM
YH while you are looking at everything you better look at the new Case TV 620B for your serious lifting capacity. The machine weights 16k 😂
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Gary_C on November 02, 2021, 11:57:56 PM
  Itís also rated at 74 hp, which is the lowest hp for any 12,000 machine Iíve looked up.  
  

I have the same 74 hp engine in my JCB 300 and a guy I know with a New Holland told me many of the manufacturers are derating their SS engines at just under 75 hp as that is the cutoff for not needing the DEF system. I've never been short of power with my JCB 300.

I did a lot of comparing weight ratings of different machines last January when I bought my skid loader and I never could find comparable ratings between different manufacturers. They all seem to have a different rating system. That's why I would just try to get a demo and find out for yourself if it will do what you want.

For anyone looking for a skid loader right now, from what I've seen there are few for sale and the used prices are waay up although the new machine price has not gone up much. I suspect availably is not going to be very good right now. For example the used machines like mine have gone up by +50% from last spring. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 02, 2021, 11:59:44 PM
Just by comparison the new case TV 620 B tracked  has a 6,200 lb operating capacity thatís 50% tipping load compared to the 333 John Deere tracked itís 3,700 operating capacity 50 % tipping load. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 03, 2021, 12:10:11 AM
Just by comparison the new case TV 620 B tracked  has a 6,200 lb operating capacity thatís 50% tipping load compared to the 333 John Deere tracked itís 3,700 operating capacity 50 % tipping load.
The 50% tipping load on the Deere 333 is around 4,700. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 03, 2021, 12:37:43 AM
  That Case looks like an animal, I'd love to put one through the paces!
 
 I found the 74 hp number of the JCB slightly suspicious 😊
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 03, 2021, 12:41:58 AM
The weight rating that I like to use is the tipping load. What is it going to take for that machine to tip at 35% or 50% fully loaded and extended fully up. If itís really good there itís going to be really good lifting low. Like double to tip
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on November 03, 2021, 06:19:00 AM
I demoed the 74 HP JCB boom CTL a few years ago. I was comparing it to the 90 HP NH I have with tires. The JCB didn't have much more lift capacity than the NH. Maybe a couple hundred pounds. This was a few years ago so some things might have changed since then.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stavebuyer on November 04, 2021, 05:31:55 AM
Honestly I think you are searching for a "Catdog". Standard sawmill capacity loaders as you have noted are 6k. You operate a first rate retail lumber yard that you don't really need a track machine churning up your nicely packed gravel. Buy whatever CTL suits your flow/traction/slope needs and forget about 6k lifting. Plenty of options in that category/price range. The money you save not buying a 120K beast of a CTL to destroy your parking lot can be used to rent a real wheel loader/rough terrain forklift/skip loader/telehandler if you happen to need one for backup and or buy an older model of one of those as a spare.






Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Ventryjr on November 04, 2021, 05:50:10 AM
Iím your space should be a factor considered.  Iíd I had the room at my mill I would use my Ford 555 backhoe to move everything around. It has great lifting capacity and is easy on the gravel lot.  But in my tight spaces my CTL tears it up but is easy to maneuver. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 04, 2021, 06:37:15 AM
Just by comparison the new case TV 620 B tracked  has a 6,200 lb operating capacity thatís 50% tipping load compared to the 333 John Deere tracked itís 3,700 operating capacity 50 % tipping load.
The 50% tipping load on the Deere 333 is around 4,700.
Correction. Those specs were the Deere 333E. The newer G model has 5,815 50% tipping load and a 11,630 tipping load. All the bigger tracked machines are going to have a 10,000 plus tipping load. That is with a bucket down low before the machine tips forward. Canít go wrong with any of the bigger ones. More lift capacity, power and hydraulic flow
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 04, 2021, 08:09:38 AM
@Gary C (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=18429) 
When you push or grade undisturbed dirt with your 300T, does the single boom flex enough to drop a corner or dig the bucket in or otherwise cause issues?  I'm assuming it has very little flex, but I don't see how it can't have any, especially after a little wear on the pins.  So is the flex enough to cause grading and digging issues?

@Stavebuyer
Thanks much for the compliments.  You are probably right, and I like to see the whole envelope of specs, and then pick one that best fills most of what I need.  I figure I won't be able to check all the boxes, but at $100K I'd like to check as many as possible.  From a usability standpoint, there seem to be lots of tradeoffs.  I think as a minimum, it needs to lift as much as my other machines, because I've kind of standardized my other equipment and even our operation to center on 6,000 lbs, and if something goes down, I'd need this to pinch hit for while the other machine gets fixed or replaced, which in today's environment could take months.

I did talk to JCB Corporate yesterday, they are sending me the detailed specs of the machines, hopefully today.  They say that they have enough business in Huntsville now that they are opening a new dealership here in the near future, so that would lessen the service and warranty issues.  They also said they we not going to upgrade their Hp ratings anytime soon, they believe staying under the DEF limits makes more sense to them because they consider the 100hp range is a niche market, and basically not what sells in the higher volume construction market.  That's an interesting strategy when other manufacturers are trying increase Hp, JCB is staying where they are.  Also, they have the tipping load and their bucket sized so that it can extend a full bucket of material straight out and still feel solid.  

Also, they have machines generally "in stock" and could get me one virtually anytime I want, as they would ship one off their manufacturing lot, straight to the dealer, then once prepped, to me.  That's surprising where every other dealer says they are months out for delivery of their brand of new machines, and I can't even get my favorite Redwing boots in until next March.    
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Gary_C on November 04, 2021, 03:26:43 PM
I have been doing mostly cleanup around the farm from years of having dairy cattle and have never seen any twisting or side to side movement of the bucket. I've moved a lot of dirt and grubbed brush and even stumps with no visible movement, even when hooking small stumps under one side of the bucket. I suspect those movement issues are a result of many more hours of use than my machine has plus a lack of greasing of the pins.

One of the changes JCB has made to counteract those issues is to switch (in a year just newer than mine) to tapered pins in the loader mounting. That should reduce any problems with both wear and loose tolerances in the loader mounts in any new machine you might try.

My used machine was previously used seasonally as a rental primarily for winter snow removal. The one problem that I have with the loader mounts is a slight squeak which can be caused by snow washing the grease out of the pins. If frequent greasing does not stop the squeak, I may have to remove the pins and relube them. So I've seen no problems yet.

That video I posted is from the farm in Wisconsin that made a bunch of good videos on various uses of their JCB trial. You can find then all here but you may have to search back in his list for the JCB videos.
How Farms Work (https://www.youtube.com/c/HowFarmsWork)  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on November 05, 2021, 05:42:12 PM
Whatever you buy, strap it to the trailer.  I was next to a CTL on a tilt trailer going 70mph on i-40 today with zero securement. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: D6c on November 07, 2021, 02:22:04 PM
Haven't read all the comments here but here's my take.  
If you're buying new or near new you might want to stay under 75 hp so you don't have to deal with DEF and associated problems.  I have heard some negative things about the one arm on JCB's.  CTL tracks tear up the gravel/yard every time you turn.  
For a dedicated sawmill machine I'd consider a compact wheel loader or possibly a telehandler.... but I realize they're pricy.  I do like having the overhead door on my Kubota SVL95-2s but they rattle like crazy and it's almost impossible to adjust it out.  Oh, and CTLs are helpless in snow.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 07, 2021, 03:13:22 PM
ASV machines go anywhere in the snow. The first one I ever operated was one of the older models, a 4810 or something like that. We were using it to build a Sno-X practice track. You could push up a pile of snow, and drive right up on top of it. You literally did whatever you wanted to with it in the snow. I've never ran a CTL in snow, so I don't know from personal experience but I've heard people say they're a bit helpless.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: okmulch on November 07, 2021, 06:16:52 PM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16734/1C53CED9-862D-4B7E-92B6-077886037391.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1636326949)
 
No problem pushing snow with my cat 299d2 last February with a 6 way blade. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on November 07, 2021, 06:53:57 PM
It wasnt a track machine put i put a 9ft fisher blade on my dads LS170 with chains only on the fronts and it did great.  Spun around real nice without tearing tar up too. If you were starting to spin just lift a bit and load the fronts. Waaay better than a bucket. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: boardmaker on November 08, 2021, 09:54:22 AM
Robert,
My brother runs a Bobcat 870 on his farm doing exactly what you're looking for.  It performs all the normal farm duties comforably.  He loves it.  The reason he bought it over other name brands was it's higher lift height.  He wanted a machine that could dump into his dump truck with sideboards from level ground.  He said it was the only one that could do it.  He's had it 5+ years no without any major issues.

Like Jake says, check out Takeuchi.  Several of the major dirt moving/excavation contractors local to me swear by them.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 08, 2021, 01:26:28 PM
I really appreciate all the responses.  

From what I can tell many people are saying they have done what I was thinking.  A CTL  will do whatever I need on the farm, and will also serve as a useful, although not optimized, piece of sawmill equipment.  A good backup for what I already have, but also able to do things I can't do with what I already have.  

Cat, ASV, Bobcat, JCB, Kubota, Gehl, Oak and Deere all have good and bad, but I am starting to consider the whole 75 Hp limit for DEF units, which don't have the brute power of a larger unit.  Or rather go with the 100hp class units that have more muscle but will have issues with Tier4.  It's a big decision - more Hp with DPF or less Hp and no DPF and possibly less troubles down the road.  I've always said horsepower is king, but so is keeping it running.

Within the last two weeks, my Chevy truck has thrown two DPF error codes, both of which I've been able to buy parts and fix, but both of which would have cost thousand to repair at a dealer.  So DPF is painfully fresh on my mind.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 08, 2021, 01:33:18 PM
Boardmaker, I don't know where he got the idea that the T870 was the only machine with enough light height to load end dumps with side boards. Even my old Case 1845C can do that, and I've never been in a CTL or skid steet that couldn't. And I've loaded literally hundreds upon hundreds of end dumps with them.
  Robert, that 75 hp DEF issue would be a tough call for me, too. Really, the medium frame machines are very capable, all I can say again is rent a few (or if you can get a dealer to let you have one for a demo😃) and try them out. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: boardmaker on November 08, 2021, 05:17:01 PM
Barbender,
I have no idea if his truck is taller than others, but his main purpose for the ctl was to load lime onto his dump truck and lime spreader so it maybe his lime spreading truck that is taller.  I remember him saying that he bought the bobcat because it was the only one he could find relatively locally that could lift high enough. 
It made me wonder what it's lift height is.  Based on this spec sheet, it is 12'1".
https://compactequip.com/track-loaders/bobcat-track-loaders-summarized-2019-spec-guide/

I browsed other manufactures that we have locally on the same site.
https://compactequip.com/track-loaders/compare-every-manufacturers-track-loader-in-our-2019-spec-guide/

Looks like JCB was the only that offered a machine that could lift that high.  Nearly all of the other manufacturers maxxed just over 10'.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 08, 2021, 06:52:40 PM
It does sound like that Bobcat has an exceptionally high dump height, whatever the case👍🏻
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: OH logger on November 08, 2021, 07:58:31 PM
My 870 lifts a foot higher than my old 770 and I wouldnít want to go back. Just helps loading logs if the bobcat is settin in the ditch or field and the semi is settin on the higher road. It was mentioned earlier about CTLs being bad on snow. I couldnt agree more. We buck pile and load logs on the landing with my T870 and after runnin over snow over and over it gets slick as snot on a doorknob. I bought these traction bars at the end of last winter that bolt (clamp) on to the tracks. They seem to be the cats meow but by the time they arrived it thawed out. Iím lookin forward to using em cause sitting still and spinning SUCKS. About useless without em. Kinda like skidder tire chains.  Skidder kev demos em on his you tube channel. 
As far as JCB skid loaders go one thing I noticed lookin at em Is the hydraulic connections for attachments on the front are on the opposite side of the machine as most other brands Iíve seen. How does that work? Just make some hydraulic hose extensions up? Cause most attachments have the hoses comin out the other side
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 08, 2021, 08:20:56 PM
Interesting about the 870 lift height.

When I talked at length to the JCB Mothership, they said the JCB 8T CTL's have two sets of hydros, and the low flow are the only ones that work when the boom is extended up to 8 feet, and although "they" don't recommend it, the machine can run a low flow rotary cutter, and many people use it to reach up into trees and trim very high branches and even reach out over pond banks and mow them.  They don't recommend it because people get careless and throw debris at themselves.    

The high flow only work with the boom retracted, and are for high flow munchers and cutters and such.  

I didn't realize they were on different sides, or even that there is a standard side.  

I've always discounted Bobcat equipment, but not for professional reasons.  Many years ago, I had an acquaintance who worked for the local Bobcat dealer and he would joke about how unreliable the equipment was, and how they gouged customers for repairs.  It kind of spoiled my taste for Bobcat.  He long since stopped working there, he had to "go away for 5 to 7 years", and I am hearing pretty good things about Bobcat now.  

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 08, 2021, 08:55:51 PM
I really appreciate all the responses.  

From what I can tell many people are saying they have done what I was thinking.  A CTL  will do whatever I need on the farm, and will also serve as a useful, although not optimized, piece of sawmill equipment.  A good backup for what I already have, but also able to do things I can't do with what I already have.  

Cat, ASV, Bobcat, JCB, Kubota, Gehl, Oak and Deere all have good and bad, but I am starting to consider the whole 75 Hp limit for DEF units, which don't have the brute power of a larger unit.  Or rather go with the 100hp class units that have more muscle but will have issues with Tier4.  It's a big decision - more Hp with DPF or less Hp and no DPF and possibly less troubles down the road.  I've always said horsepower is king, but so is keeping it running.

Within the last two weeks, my Chevy truck has thrown two DPF error codes, both of which I've been able to buy parts and fix, but both of which would have cost thousand to repair at a dealer.  So DPF is painfully fresh on my mind.
If this will make you even think more there are are 280 plus error codes on the ASV 120 😂
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stavebuyer on November 09, 2021, 03:46:46 AM
Interesting about the 870 lift height.

When I talked at length to the JCB Mothership, they said the JCB 8T CTL's have two sets of hydros, and the low flow are the only ones that work when the boom is extended up to 8 feet, and although "they" don't recommend it, the machine can run a low flow rotary cutter, and many people use it to reach up into trees and trim very high branches and even reach out over pond banks and mow them.  They don't recommend it because people get careless and throw debris at themselves.    

The high flow only work with the boom retracted, and are for high flow munchers and cutters and such.  

I didn't realize they were on different sides, or even that there is a standard side.  

I've always discounted Bobcat equipment, but not for professional reasons.  Many years ago, I had an acquaintance who worked for the local Bobcat dealer and he would joke about how unreliable the equipment was, and how they gouged customers for repairs.  It kind of spoiled my taste for Bobcat.  He long since stopped working there, he had to go away for 5 to 7 years, and I am hearing pretty good things about them now.  
Just FYI I used to trim some branches with my cat 289D and 6ft rotary cutter. It was a more or less a 12K weight class machine and just the weight of the cutter with no extension it gets a little "tippy" fully extended. The whole "lever" thing working against you.
Just for conversation; There used to be a contractor who had two "long boom" excavators that maintained every inch of impossible to traverse ROW sections of the Western KY Parkway. Standing water swamps, vertical rock cuts, places too steep for track machines to mow etc.  Obviously not the machine for lumber stacks but an excavator does lots of things a CTL could never touch.
You really need to run a CTL around your sawmill to see if the advantages outweigh the downsides for your operation. The CAT for instance had several layers of "safety" interlocks. The hydraulics default to off if the door latch is not closed, the "arm restraints are not closed, and the hydro button not pushed. Need to adjust the dunnage to set you pack? Not so fast; first set pack down so you can open door, swing the restraint arms out of the way, open the door and climb across the forks around your pack. Like getting strapped into an Apollo capsule and going through a launch sequence. No big deal if your going to mulch until dinner but a real pain if your sawing by yourself and need in an out of it every little while. Go to open the door and due to an unlevel surface the loader still is an inch off the ground and blocking your door? Sorry squirm back into the seat, fully close both restraining arms, and activate the hydraulic push button so you can now lower the loader arms 1/2" so you can open the door and repeat the process getting back in.
I had a JCB Compact Wheel Loader. Loved it and only had one issue with a short in the AC circuit they fixed under warranty. Compared to CAT, Volvo, and even the Hyundai loaders I had the cab had a bit of a "cheaper" feel and did have more rattles and vibration. It also is a "JCB" and they tend to sell or trade at a discount when that day rolls around.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on November 09, 2021, 06:31:57 AM
I only have personal experience with the JCB 74 hp boom machine. It would barely lift a little more than my 90 hp tire machine. I've watched tree surgeons with their 75 hp CTL machines and they seem to struggle with one log, when they get up in size. Where the JD that I have will have it moved and back for the next one while they are walking around on their tippie toes. Yes some where down the road I'm sure I will have some trouble with the DEF system, but I will have gotten a lot more work done before then. Most of these companies are getting a lot of the bugs worked out of these systems. At the moment my plan is to probably trade the machine just about the time the warranty goes out. That plan will likely change when I get the price on the next machine. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on November 09, 2021, 07:00:59 AM
I do agree on the tippy toes in the log and mill yard.
I wouldn't want anything with a lift capacity less than Big Bob at this point.
I did watch a U tube last night with a 75 hp ASV with a new style brush mower (drum) with a built in grapple.
That thing worked nice new style unit.
It's a CMP attachment 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 09, 2021, 06:36:52 PM
Stavebuyer- that's a good word on the inconvenience of getting in and out of these newer machines. It can be enough to make you lose your sanity😬
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Resonator on November 09, 2021, 07:06:51 PM
Quote
he had to "go away for 5 to 7 years"
That don't sound so good! :o
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 09, 2021, 09:14:58 PM
I was wondering if anybody caught that. :D  Thing is, he worked for the Bobcat dealership, decades ago, and he fit right in.  I can only assume things have changed since then, but I haven't checked.

You know, it's interesting getting feedback from real life users, because its "real" and that what matters.  After reading stavebuyer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=15189) and others' posts on the safties, I was reminded of the first CTL I sat in, a Kubota 97-SV2 at my buddy's dealership.  
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/24DEBB9C-455D-4494-8938-5EA08E5225FE.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1631538895)
 

What I didn't realize then, but do now, was how convenient it was.  The front door window was huge, and pivoted up into the roof, and the machine could be operated with it open or closed.  So unlike some when the door has to be down and locked, which can be very inconvenient, this one didn't.  It also allows an operator to have full egress and exit even with the loader arms in any position, up, down, or in between.  

It had a spacious cab, but it was spartan, with not lots of stuff.  So this is probably a good thing.  It was built for simplicity and reliability, and if its anything like my Kubota Zero Turn, its just runs.  

The open door also would allow me to talk to people while I'm operating it.  Customsawyer mentioned that was one thing he didn't like about this Deere.

The Kubota has a 96 hp motor and is a 12,000 lb class CTL, tipping load of 9140 lbs, which is respectable.

When I sat in it, my buddy said "start er up" and I cranked it right up, with him standing outside, talking to me.  I raised the loader arms, traversed, and turned it off with out even dealing with an over abundance of lockouts and safeties. 

In this area, these machines are very popular, nearly every construction site has them. 

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stavebuyer on November 10, 2021, 04:23:16 AM
Nice features on that Kubota cab. A wheeled version with a set of steel OTT would cover a long checklist for me.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stavebuyer on November 10, 2021, 04:37:17 AM
Back to slopes. At one point I owned a INT TD9 dozer with a PTO and took on a job bush-hogging a hillside pasture that hadn't seen mowing in many years due to the grade. The old timers cleared some darn steep hillsides to farm in these parts. This hill had cow trails tramped like contour lines so you had some 2' "ledges" added to the grade. I slid more than a few times and was thrilled when I finished.

The owner told me his uncle used to mow it with a Int C tricycle tractor with the rear wheels spread wide and a sickle bar on the uphill side to help hold it. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: wisconsitom on November 10, 2021, 08:00:29 AM
Agree the Kubota is a good skid steer.  We looked at that machine too-seemed to outshine some others.  That quick egress can be crucial, as we all know.

One guys was running forestry mulcher in front of a skid steer when it caught on fire.  I don't know what machine he was running but had some difficulty getting out of cab, but was able to do so.  Called his supervisor lady to quick bring fire extinguisher (which should have been with machine).  I guess she came a running, got about 30 feet away from blaze, and expelled the contents of that extinguisher into the air.

That machine burned down all the way.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 10, 2021, 08:05:42 AM
I've also heard of people almost not making it out of skid steers that caught fire with a mower in front, and they couldn't get the door open😬😬
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: wisconsitom on November 10, 2021, 08:21:34 AM
Not where you wanna be! :-X
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on November 10, 2021, 05:21:33 PM
I'm surprised the forestry mulching units don't have a built in Ansul type system.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 10, 2021, 05:38:25 PM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/FD8A581D-6FE3-494F-840E-3A5A3A9C3639.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1636583822)
 Are you sure you want a Kubota 😂. The guys moving his oil cooler to a Bobcat 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 10, 2021, 07:50:16 PM
Is there any brand that hasn't burned up? :D  

Did that unit have the Forestry package?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Resonator on November 10, 2021, 08:45:23 PM
"Keep your fire extinguishers charged up and handy." 
  (To quote Mike Belben). ;D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 10, 2021, 09:19:15 PM
You wouldnít believe some of the stuff people do and donít do with machines mulching. Many variables. You need to keep it blown out of dust and debris really good. But when it comes time to running cool in that arena there is one thatís the best hands down and I think you know the one Iím talking about. Note that these guys are running these full time day in and day out so you really donít know how they take care of it. There are  other guys with the Kubota and no trouble 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on November 10, 2021, 09:40:31 PM
"Keep your fire extinguishers charged up and handy."
  (To quote Mike Belben). ;D
The irony is i bet every one of my extinguishers is dead or buried under junk right now!  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 11, 2021, 12:29:07 AM
The incident that led to my earlier post happened in a Bobcat, they'll all burn and if you're mulching or mowing, even more so. Everything is working at full load, is good and hot and there's probably leaves and grass floating around- even if you just blew it out an hour ago. One little pinhole in a hydraulic line that sprays onto a hot exhaust component. Lots of really hot exhaust components on new diesels. Once hydraulic oil is ignited, and you realize you have a fire, it's probably all over unless the machine has an onboard fire suppression system.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 11, 2021, 07:48:07 AM
See, I never realized the issues with burning, I've been running equipment longer than I can remember, but have only seen one tractor burning real time, but it was put out.  However, it caught up again, and then was put out again.  It started with a bird nest up against the engine.  I am upping the access/egress on my priority list.  It's something the dealers don't talk about, at least to me.  I guess if my rig catches fire, and am mowing a pond, I'll just drive it in and swim out. :D  That isn't a good plan, but does reinforce that ease of egress and exit is important.  I do plan on using this machine for at least 75% mulching, cutting, forestry work, dirt moving, gravel grading, etc, at least for the first year or two.  I remember it took us a year and a half just to fully fence the place, so I don't expect to get everything ship shape in a month or two.  I have lots and I mean lots, of gravel that needs grading several times every year due to car and 18 wheeler traffic, and I also have a gravel pit on our property, so graveling is a common thing in my list of chores.

I have one road that was built by a bulldozer that's maybe a half mile long, cut along the side of a hill.  Several lanes need to be mowed above and below along its length, and with the 18į degree slope, even my tractor tires loose traction and I slide sideways, downhill, and besides getting my heart rate up, it leave some unsightly skid marks that tears up the grass.  Overt a period of time, the skid marks won't heal and start to trench with rainwater run off.  So the damage gets worse.  One thought is that I could use the CTL to mow initially, while at the same time use it start moving some dirt up to soften the slope so I can start mowing it with my zero turn.

The reality is that I could use a dozer, an excavator, and a wheel loader all the same time.  But I can only afford one, so I need a "Do All" machine.  Maybe it can't do it all optimally, but good enough may be good enough.    

I'm also going through the lower than 75 hp models of each, seeing if they have the lift capacity but don't have all the Tier 4 junk. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: wisconsitom on November 11, 2021, 08:49:57 AM
YH, when it comes to grading gravel, other than an actual grader, a compact utility tractor, or any front-loader-equipped tractor, so long as it has "bucket float", will do wonders in that task.  Just got done smoothing and levelling a bunch of 1 1/2" breaker-that's hard to move stuff there, was actually bigger than that-with nothing more than my bobcat 25 HP machine, using bucket float in reverse.

Good stuff.

Heh, one thing I love to do with my hydrostatic machine is compacting after grading;  Step on this pedal, ok now step on that pedal.....rinse and repeat.
Beet juice in the rears and a loader hanging off the front make for some good packing.  Ag tires probably not so good for this, industrials just right.

If anyone cares, when you have bucket float, works best to already be in motion when bucket hits ground.  No starting point divot that way.  Smooth smooth smooth.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Magicman on November 11, 2021, 08:56:08 AM
There are untold ways that skid steers or any other equipment can catch fire and size/manufacturer does not matter.  Here is an example:  LINK (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=113386.msg1827093#msg1827093)

We finally have this saw job completion scheduled for Dec. 13th.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on November 11, 2021, 11:42:44 AM
Skid steers level mucj more effectively in backdrag application.  You will always see used nearly new 6 way dozer blade attachments for sale.  They sound likena great idea in theory but in practice are sorely lacking.   pushing forward unloads the front tires of a SS that already has a 30/70 weight bias to the rear by design so they want to wheelie as soon as they hit resistance or a slight incline.  They are ao much better downhill or backdragging because of this.  Any uphill work on a SS takes a very heavy attachment.   

A long heavy motor grader attachment with front rocker axle beam will work great on a SS but as a "dozer" the machines are terrible in pushing anything besides fresh dumped dirt out, compared to a dozer.    Any hard pan will just make the typical SS scrape over the top. Going forward, any chop in the ground will just be traced and repeated by a wheeled SS because the carriage has no suspension and short wheelbase with blade outside the tire envelope, so they rock and bounce the pattern into the bucket edge which just repeates it on fresh ground, when cutting forward.  

When you backdrag with down pressure you lift the forward wheels off the ground and effectively double the wheelbase.. From rear wheel to bucket edge becomes the new carriage length.  Motor graders are long and on walking beams with a belly blade mid span for a very good reason.  They naturally halve the sine wave height of choppy washboard surfaces.  A blade outside the carriage amplifies it like a tracer.  Dozers will too unless you are a good operator and continually making blade increment changes based on the slightest features under the tracks.  I backdrag float that out with the dozer a lot. 


A land plane is the best simple tool you can make for skid steer or tractor road finishing.  I mean really fine finishing. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 11, 2021, 01:12:17 PM
See, I never realized the issues with burning, I've been running equipment longer than I can remember, but have only seen one tractor burning real time, but it was put out.  However, it caught up again, and then was put out again.  It started with a bird nest up against the engine.  I am upping the access/egress on my priority list.  It's something the dealers don't talk about, at least to me.  I guess if my rig catches fire, and am mowing a pond, I'll just drive it in and swim out. :D  That isn't a good plan, but does reinforce that ease of egress and exit is important.  I do plan on using this machine for at least 75% mulching, cutting, forestry work, dirt moving, gravel grading, etc, at least for the first year or two.  I remember it took us a year and a half just to fully fence the place, so I don't expect to get everything ship shape in a month or two.  I have lots and I mean lots, of gravel that needs grading several times every year due to car and 18 wheeler traffic, and I also have a gravel pit on our property, so graveling is a common thing in my list of chores.

I have one road that was built by a bulldozer that's maybe a half mile long, cut along the side of a hill.  Several lanes need to be mowed above and below along its length, and with the 18į degree slope, even my tractor tires loose traction and I slide sideways, downhill, and besides getting my heart rate up, it leave some unsightly skid marks that tears up the grass.  Overt a period of time, the skid marks won't heal and start to trench with rainwater run off.  So the damage gets worse.  One thought is that I could use the CTL to mow initially, while at the same time use it start moving some dirt up to soften the slope so I can start mowing it with my zero turn.

The reality is that I could use a dozer, an excavator, and a wheel loader all the same time.  But I can only afford one, so I need a "Do All" machine.  Maybe it can't do it all optimally, but good enough may be good enough.    

I'm also going through the lower than 75 hp models of each, seeing if they have the lift capacity but don't have all the Tier 4 junk.
With everything your doing donít rule out the above 75 hp or you will wish you had more 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 11, 2021, 02:11:54 PM
Mike, while some of what you are saying is true, don't forget there is a huge difference between a small frame machine and the newer large frame ones. My Case 1845C is a medium frame, it handles my 6 way dozer blade decent. It's by no means a dozer, and you have to operate it differently. But it is a very useful tool. However I wouldn't want it on a smaller machine. In the front of a large frame track machine, I could really get something done with it. 
  Grading with a skid steer is one of the dew things I will put myself up against anyone. I did it for years, under pressure getting paid union wages. There's a lot of tricks, one of the best things anyone ever showed me was to keep your bucket full of material. Then when your going forward you are pushing a head of material, which does a lot of filling and leveling ahead of you. The weight of the material gives you stability, and helps keep it from rising up. Then when you back drag, leave the material in the bucket, too. Yes you can use the float in reverse, sometimes it's called for sometimes not. If you have a good cutting edge, the back of it will cut when you're back dragging.  To fine tune, and this seems backwards, top the bucket down to leave more material and tip it up to cut. Anyways, imo if you're not pushing that head of material you're just screwing around. Another trick, if you are trying to grade a large area like say a garage pad, don't go straight- be slowly turning as you go forward or reverse. The length of your bucket cutting edge will act as a leveling bar as you slowly turn. It helps get around the shortcomings of the short wheelbase machine. I could go on and on, but in dirt I figure no matter what machine I'm using, it has a cutting edge on it. How can I use it to accomplish my goal? I know what the end result needs to be, how do I make this machine get me there? 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on November 11, 2021, 05:33:56 PM
Youre right, the big SS's today are bordering on crossover machines so the little guy can do it all with one truck and trailer... Long tracks, 10k and up chassis weight, huge power.  Some SS are almost a crawler loader now.  The old ASV and new case i think are almost D4s. Maybe better in many respects.  


Ive done the bucket full of rolling dirt thing just like carrying out spoils with the dozer, but not really tried the curvy cutting.  I get it though, i do it with the dozer cutting across hillsides.. Tear a corner and smear it sideways.. Keep extending or enlarging the flat youre on..  

With SS if surface is really bad i try criss crossing like plaid.  Honestly ive had a good dozer and a junky bobcat so long that i hardly ever have to try shaping a finish surface with the bobcat. I doze in the rough, landplane the fine base with tractor then shake gravels out by the scoop with SS onto a perfect shape, like adding sprinkles to a cake.


Its like you said.. A tool.  Could be the best or worst choice for the task depending on what other tools you have.  They are potent machines and i hate being without one, even a runty junker.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 11, 2021, 06:48:24 PM
You're right Mike, if you have a dozer you'd be a fool out there trying to carry a grade with a small Bobcat. But my philosophy is, that Bobcat is just as good as a dozer, if you don't have a dozer🤔
 Yes on the plaid technique👍🏻 Actually, if I'm doing a garage pad or similar, the first step is to grade to the outside perimeter.  You should have grade stakes every 10', you can grade to that even with a short machine. Once the perimeter is to grade, then I would have one point in the middle typically with a hub. Get that to grade and then work things across. I prefer to work on a diagonal in this case. The shorter the machine the more grade stakes you'll have to set. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on November 11, 2021, 07:35:47 PM
Grade stakes and transits is one thing i know zero about, unless you count my amish grade lazers.  That is, magnetic bubble levels on my fuel tank, dash and blade.


In southern clay, almost flat is really good, really flat is almost bad. And water better go down the hill or down to the pond.  


For slab base i figure the top will level itself to make up for my errors on bottom.  Its like drywall, hides a shoddy framers handywork. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 11, 2021, 09:12:14 PM
The big one push like a monster. I owned one of these. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/6E1BDBA0-E671-4D3C-A5F6-2E221B60192A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1636683085)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/5D6AFCCD-D9CE-4E28-9FCB-B573BA521CB6.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1636683063)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 11, 2021, 09:18:51 PM
Most of the stuff like this scraper and other equipment you can order or come with a mast to attach laser level to it 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/A9810D46-105D-4562-B68C-FA51BD0882E2.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1636683463)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/A9810D46-105D-4562-B68C-FA51BD0882E2.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1636683463)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 11, 2021, 09:27:28 PM
Select your attachments wisely. You can spend a fortune on attachments. Some work Awesome and some donít. Iíve been there and done that 😂
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 11, 2021, 09:38:48 PM
So how do you ditch, or surface crown road, using a full frame CTL and no 6 way blade?  I've cut ditches with a 6 way dozer, and I can crown grade a road with my tractor by loading the downhill corner of my bucket with dirt so my wheels on that side deflate and squat, and then I can drag, either forward or backward with the bucket heel and grade at a slope across the width of my 8 foot bucket.  The side weighed down with dirt will cut a crown in a gravel road almost like a 6 way.  How do you do that with a CTL unless with a 6 way blade attachment?  Same thing about long ditches, how do you continuous cut a ditch with a CTL? 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: farmfromkansas on November 11, 2021, 09:44:21 PM
You are right, you can spend a fortune on attachments.  My daughter and sil had a new steel building put up, on concrete.  The contractor had a box scraper on the front of a skid steer, with a laser set up to prep for concrete.  The contractor told me he could grade the ground within 1/4" with the machine.  Saved a ton of labor setting up for concrete.  Slab turned out very nice.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on November 11, 2021, 10:14:34 PM
If thats all you have, You dig perpendicular to the road like youre crossing it, going deeper to create the ditch.  Fling the dirt then side shuffle and reverse, repeat.  Once done backdrag it to reconcile all the comb marks. 


Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on November 11, 2021, 10:20:00 PM
The dumptruck contractor who brings me fill buried my entire yard with stairstacked piles when dozer lost reverse.  My site was so convenient he came with his case 380 to push a hole so he could keep sending trucks.  


Im not kidding when i say that thing THREW dirt piles.  3 pushes and a triaxle load was gone.  It may have taken bigger bites than my D31.  Now if the Case had a blade instead of bucket and was trying to push a dead pile rather than lift and carry it, i suspect it woulda not done as well but either way, it was incredible how many man hours per gallon that thing did versus a shovel and work gloves.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 11, 2021, 10:35:37 PM
They are beasts, Mike👍🏻 YH, crowning roads is the main reason I bought a 6 way blade. If I'm being honest, the 6 way on my machine is too heavy at least or grading work. The problem is it causes the balance to shift disproportionately and it prevents me from making fine grade adjustments. I suspect a large frame track machine would perform much better. My machine is also too light to push a good head of material, which would help with the balance issue. I mostly use it to windrow material, build crowns and ditches. It works great when I am clearing, being able to windrow the material to one side helps to roll the roots and sticks and get your material to lay out. I'd reiterate it does not make your skid a dozer. If you get one and expect your CTL to perform and operate the same as a dozer, you'll be disappointed. That's why you'll commonly see them for sale in like new condition. I think I paid about 1/3 of new price for mine.  People hook up the attachment, and expect the machine to magically act like a dozer. It doesn't and they get frustrated and quit. If you get rid of that mindset and figure out how to make it work, they're quite handy.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 12, 2021, 01:03:38 AM
They make grader attachments to 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/A1D56B6F-2067-484E-9781-750B1B5BDC7F.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1636696995)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 12, 2021, 01:22:51 AM
All of this dirt work depends on the dirt type, weight, traction and power of the machine. If you donít have that your going to be disappointed. On hard pack and dozing in general it makes all the difference in the world putting the ripper in the ground and going over it. When I helped my buddy building terraces I put the ripper in the ground with the Deere dozer and made a few passes with it before I started to work on the dirt pushing while he was in the D6.  With a big skid no different about getting the ground ripped. All the difference in the world. Same with a big grader on hard dry clay itís like going over concrete
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 12, 2021, 02:35:57 PM
Yeah I got sent out one time to touch up a township road with a small Komatsu grader, around #12000 that we used for driveway shaping. No one told me that the road had been sprayed with calcium chloride🤦🏻‍♂️ Like concrete, no ripper on that machine. I finally got the blade to poke through just using the corner, and was able to bust it up finally but what a pain! 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 15, 2021, 12:21:00 AM
Iím not knocking anybodyís single arm machines but just putting some information of a friend that had a couple. Most mulching heads for the 100hp skidsteer machines are 2,800 to 3,500 lbs
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/94CA1255-71E6-4E55-96FD-C21C9DFC3A04.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1636953595)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/9F2AB660-98AE-47F9-87A2-9C3D8DB4AFF7.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1636953621)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 15, 2021, 08:41:55 AM
Yesterday I was doing some fencline work, and my poor tractor cab got beat up so bad with baseball bat sized branches I had to get my wife to pull the side mirrors back out so I could open the door of the cab and get out.  

The good news is my tractor is like a tank, so some trees that really got me mad, I just backup up and pushed over.  Now I have footballs and trees laying around I need to clean up, it would have been much better just to mulcher them to the ground. 

Iím back to looking at the 100 up class machines.  I had a 70 hp tractor, and now have a 100 hp, and there is a world of difference.  My 70 up would bounce off a tree, the 100 hp just pushes it over.    

We are going to talk to the Bobcat dealer today, they donít have any new machines in the lot for me to look at, but at least I can talk to them.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 15, 2021, 12:26:33 PM
I think you will be happy with whatever 100hp class machine you decide on. They just out shine the 75hp in everything 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 15, 2021, 07:57:19 PM
As luck would have it, we made a big multi hour loop today and was able to sit in an 870 Bobcat, a Deere 331, and a Kubota SVL97-2.  Int was the first time I was able to sit in them, one dealer after the other.  

The Bobcat had the "coziest" cabin, but also had the most comfortable seat.  The informal estimate for it was "well over a hundred grand" is what the saleman said.  Later I found out its $110K.  Delivery was 4 months.  He said that all their new wheel loaders and tele handlers were "Off the market, and are on hold, due to supply issues."  Wow.

The Kubota had an air ride seat that within just a few minutes was starting to hurt my back, it was too straight up, too much angle. It was an air ride, and when in the higher positions, the lap bars were hitting me on the thigh.  The door was very easy to get into, and it was $76K. the dealer said they hadn't really seen any major price increases, other than attachments.  About a 4 month delivery time.  

The Deere was actually the skid steer verison, but the cab was supposed to be the same as the 333.  It was a pain to get into, what with me having an artificial hip, and being 6'5" tall.  It also had a lap bar that hit me on my thighs.  Still, once in it, it had a lot of room.  Nice cab.  Four price increases in the last year and a half, about $90K.

Does anyone know of lap bar restraints the are adjustable for leg height?  I wasn't expecting that to be an issue. 

I saw this one on the service lot.  It didn't look like a fun time.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/IMG_2935.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1637024077)
  


Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 16, 2021, 04:34:28 AM
The ASV 75 MAX doesnít have a lap bar if you notice there is one bar that flips down on the left. Notice the view. People really like these new MAX 75s the HD version has Forestry guarding. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/FE5C5D26-632D-4C2D-8692-FD75016D2D55.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1637055230)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on November 16, 2021, 06:17:02 AM
With my NH since it don't have a cab I got used to getting into it from the left side. Just like Grandpa taught me to get on a horse. With the cab and the way the door swings on the Deere, there was a learning curve getting in and out. Basically it takes some trial and error learning where to put your feet to make it a smooth entrance and exit. As for the lap bar I agree with you. If I raise the air ride seat up high enough that I'm comfortable then the bar is hitting my lap and the joysticks are a little bit out of position for my hands. I've learned to have the seat just a little bit lower. This might not be a option with your height. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Gary_C on November 16, 2021, 06:18:43 AM
With almost 9 full pages and 166 posts we still haven't found that perfect skid steer that will do everything. When I started my search last fall, I was actually looking for an end loader because of a need for high lift and easy in and out. I have never been a fan of skid steers because of cramped cabs with poor visibility and poor access. Also the problems with track maintenance, poor traction on snow and cost, I decided to stick with a wheeled machine. 

So now I have been very impressed with my JCB 300. Visibility is excellent (unmatched by any other skid steer I've seen), the cab is easy to get in and out, roomy, it will lift some large lumber packs I've had in the shed, will do some things that I could never do before, and for the first time I am looking forward to some snow to push. Nothing beats a warm/cool easy to access cab for an old man.  ;D

Will it do everything I need? I've not yet found that machine.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 16, 2021, 08:17:07 AM
Gary C (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=18429)
You hit the nail on the head.  I said the exact same thing yesterday as we were driving home from our marathon dealer visit loop.  I have to admit I'm disappointed in the whole experience.  I had assumed it would be like buying trucks, tractors, boats, machines, etc, as I would have lots of choices and would be forced to make a decision about which one I liked the BEST, not make a decision based upon which one I dislike the LEAST.

I actually got mad when I found out that two machines I was interested in the most had safety bars that hit me in the thigh.  I mean, how hard is it to make them adjustable height?  High dollar air ride seat? Who cares if it can't be raised to use the air in the air ride seat??  Both Kubota and Deere had this issue.  What about a lap bar with a couple extra bolt holes in it?  My lawn mower has adjustable lap bars, but not a skid steer?  How hard is that?  The guy said, "some people just cut them off right about there." Sure, let's take a hacksaw to a $100,000 machine right out of the gate.  

The nearest JCB dealer is two hours away. I told my wife we may be driving to Chattanooga to look at a them.  Comfort and usability may override brute specs. The 300 series look promising.  What kind of lap bar do they have?  Would I need to take a hacksaw to it?  :D

That being said, I would like to say a big thank you to all the people who have contributed to this thread. I have learned a lot, and I know some other Forum members have told me the same thing, that they were also reading it to learn things they didn't know.  So this has been very helpful to many people.

I may just take a break.  I'm about worn out.  It's not like its going to matter, what with a 4 month lead time most machines.  Yesterday, a few notable quotes from the various dealers stick in my mind.

"The manufactures don't make these for tall people."

"Most injuries occur when people get in or out of them."

and probably the most realistic:  "Owners of businesses don't buy these to be comfortable because they want their employees to get out of them, and not sit in them all day.  That's also why they order them without front windshields, so the machines get hot, cold and dusty."

The Bobcat dealer was the most depressing.  After looking at the T870's, I looked at a 923 tele handler.  It had some nice specs, and even could run a 30+gpm front implement, while fully extended.  So I asked, how much? - the salesman said it didn't matter because they had been told to tell customers they have frozen production on all their tele handlers and wheel loaders until further notice.  He wouldn't even work me upon a quote.  Hah.  Ball game on that.

       
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: wisconsitom on November 16, 2021, 08:25:23 AM
Local Bobcat dealer where I bought my CUT not able to keep much in stock recently.  I bought in 2019, and even then, for some reason, supply was tight.  That's when son and I played our little game about unit being "demo model", which was not entirely untrue, but was not real hang-up for us.  Salesman hemmed and hawed and made noises about difficulty of even getting different unit in.  Turns out he was not kidding.

This was all pre-covid.

One nice little touch;  As is true of many of us, my Financial Director was not exactly "on board" with us buying a tractor initially.  Yet just a few days ago as we drove past that dealer, and with me saying much the same as I have here about their inability to get stock in, this woman said something to the effect of "good thing you bought when you did"!

Yes!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on November 16, 2021, 09:42:00 AM
i bought my homestead for $44,900.  that bobcat is not "cozy" enough for a hundred Gs.  am i the only one thinking it should come with a truck, a trailer and a quiver off attachments for that much money?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on November 16, 2021, 12:25:08 PM
17 years ago 12 ac. Land house , septic , well and $8,500 for power run in.
I had 98,000.00 into it 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Resonator on November 16, 2021, 12:45:39 PM
If I had a 100k, I would buy multiple used machines to do multiple jobs.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Gary_C on November 16, 2021, 03:48:04 PM
You guys sound like my grandfather. Next thing you are going to be telling us is how much a loaf of bread used to cost.  :D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: sumday on November 16, 2021, 04:58:22 PM
I paid attention when I jumped in my bobcat t590 this afternoon and it's got tons of space between the lap bar and my lap. I could ride the grandkids on my lap. It's a 2013 though so maybe the new ones are different.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 16, 2021, 06:57:35 PM
Unfortunately, yesterdays $20K is today's $100K. :D :D

The only one I didn't try the lap bar on was the Bobcat.  Sumday, that's good information.  I was too stunned when he said "The Versahandler series is temporarily discontinued. The T870 in not in stock and a order would have to be placed, it is unknown when one would be available."  Wow, I still cringe when I hear that.  Tough times ahead for Bobcat.

Gary, I looked at the 3TS-8T awhile ago, its back on the short list.  I loaded a log on the WMSuper 70 today, and the loader arms wouldn't lift it.  So I started thinking as long as I get a machine that will lift a log heavier than the loader arms can lift, that's a good thing.  I calculated the log at a tad more than 4,500 lbs.

 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: OH logger on November 16, 2021, 08:13:12 PM
Glad I bought my T870 when I did. it was 2 years ago and Iím pretty sure I gave $80,000. Dang thatís an increase and a half!! Almost literally!!! 🤯
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Magicman on November 16, 2021, 08:39:19 PM
I loaded a log on the WMSuper 70 today, and the loader arms wouldn't lift it.
I am sure that a Magic Hook (end tong) chained to the log clamp would have rolled it over the loader hinge and allowed you to raise it.  Yesterday I encountered the first log that I was unable to load without tractor assistance.  The toolbox said 6283 lbs. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_1346.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1637023846)
 
Note the chain in the above picture.  After it was about 6" off of the ground the continued clamp pressure rolled it more over the loader hinge and I loaded it without tractor help.  It also took raising the log clamp to assist the toe board to raise the top end of the log.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: farmfromkansas on November 16, 2021, 08:59:45 PM
 I have mostly JD equipment, but a Case skidsteer.  JD had some problems a few years ago, a neighbor bought a new skidsteer, and he would use it, put it in the shed, and go out to get it , and it would refuse to start.  Spent piles of money on it as soon as the warranty ran out, finally traded it for a new model.  Have not heard much about the new one. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on November 16, 2021, 09:47:40 PM
must be that out of warranty glitchware they installed on day 1.  the real doomsday clock.

;)



 

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Gary_C on November 16, 2021, 10:14:38 PM
Yes YH, the only way to find out is if you give one a try. I have moved some big stacks of sawn red oak and mine had no trouble with those lifts and mine is rated at 3000 which is 50% of the tipping load while the one you are looking at is rated at 3695 at 50% of tipping.

I am really comfortable in that cab unlike any other skid loader I've ever sat in and run. Excellent visibility too. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 17, 2021, 03:08:39 AM
You guys sound like my grandfather. Next thing you are going to be telling us is how much a loaf of bread used to cost.  :D
Exactly! You want to play boys you got pay! 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 17, 2021, 04:03:16 AM
One thing Iíve always liked about the ASV big guys is the ease of using the 20Ē wide tracks to use as steps to get in and out and walk up them to the top of cab. Also the large step area to get in and out. Plenty of room to stand on to open door and shut it. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/6277072D-EACA-40C8-994B-CFA66B3E2837.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1637139652)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/C4132C64-9E3D-4758-9A96-9642DC4CA756.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1637139752)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: OH logger on November 17, 2021, 10:29:58 AM
Itís almost amazing how regional SS brands are. Around here bobcat is the most used and Deere second and a few of everything else. Never seen a Tekuchi or JCB or ASV ever in these parts. Kubota is definitely getting more poplular around here. If I ever have to switch from bobcat itíll be to kubota. Dealer is close by and I can get out of cab with boom up if necessary (and it is) 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: wisconsitom on November 17, 2021, 11:26:14 AM
Gehl makes a lot of skid steers too.  Common brand in these parts.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: jpassardi on November 17, 2021, 11:43:33 AM
Robert,

I know traction is one of your concerns. With the equipment you already have, have you considered a full size, pre-emissions, clean, low hour track loader with over the bucket forks? Maybe a Cat 9 series, or? Lift capacity would be a non-issue. They typically bring less money than a comparable sized dozer.
If you don't want to do repairs yourself hire a local guy to go through it. Could a lot of work and still be well under $100K and most of it's depreciation has already happened. Ample leg room too.

I've been watching your new youtube posts by the way.  ;)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 17, 2021, 11:58:00 AM
Iím not giving up, just still looking.  I called up my buddy at the New Holland dealership, and asked him if I was off base for the equipment I was looking for.  Iíve known him since high school, and buys wood at our place, so he knows us and our farm.  So I asked him if I should be looking for a backhoe or any other piece of equipment that could run a mulcher on the boom and still assist on the farm and sawmill.  He said that a new backhoe was $140K plus a $30K mulcher and I could buy both a compact track loader and mini excavator for the same price.  He said backhoes were going the way of the dinosaur as far as landscapers and local dirt companies are concerned, as people could get two machines for the price of one, and trailering was easier.  

He told me that they just got in a Kubota track loader yesterday where the guy was mulching around a pond and the bank gave way.  He ended up underwater and had to escape through the fold up front windshield.  Apparently a very scary experience and he was glad of the front fold up door of the Kubota. 

I need to find a full size ASV to sit in and I just found a Takeuchi dealer the next town over.  

I have yet to find a Cat to sit in.  If nothing else, you guys should be getting entertained with all the trials and tribulations Iím going through.  

We are planning on visiting the JCB dealer when we have a chance to take a day off and drive there.  Thatís the problem.  The dealer is a looong way away.  

Jpassardi,
I havenít really looked at full size track loaders yet, I may yet have to get there.  Will they run a mulching head?  Thanks for watching the videos.  They sure take time to make and itís hard to justify doing them, except people may want to see what we do.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: jpassardi on November 17, 2021, 06:25:26 PM
Iím not giving up, just still looking.  I called up my buddy at the New Holland dealership, and asked him if I was off base for the equipment I was looking for.  Iíve known him since high school, and buys wood at our place, so he knows us and our farm.  So I asked him if I should be looking for a backhoe or any other piece of equipment that could run a mulcher on the boom and still assist on the farm and sawmill.  He said that a new backhoe was $140K plus a $30K mulcher and I could buy both a compact track loader and mini excavator for the same price.  He said backhoes were going the way of the dinosaur as far as landscapers and local dirt companies are concerned, as people could get two machines for the price of one, and trailering was easier.  

He told me that they just got in a Kubota track loader yesterday where the guy was mulching around a pond and the bank gave way.  He ended up underwater and had to escape through the fold up front windshield.  Apparently a very scary experience and he was glad of the front fold up door of the Kubota.

I need to find a full size ASV to sit in and I just found a Takeuchi dealer the next town over.  

I have yet to find a Cat to sit in.  If nothing else, you guys should be getting entertained with all the trials and tribulations Iím going through.  

We are planning on visiting the JCB dealer when we have a chance to take a day off and drive there.  Thatís the problem.  The dealer is a looong way away.  

Jpassardi,
I havenít really looked at full size track loaders yet, I may yet have to get there.  Will they run a mulching head?  Thanks for watching the videos.  They sure take time to make and itís hard to justify doing them, except people may want to see what we do.
 Unfortunately, not that I'm aware of but you could rip through, pile it up and burn - not ideal, I know.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: KenMac on November 17, 2021, 09:54:50 PM
Yellowhammer, there's a JCB dealer in Leeds, Al. just 8 miles from me. Is there anything I can check on for you? I'd be glad to help if I can., They had a small telehandler that really interested me a while back.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 18, 2021, 12:22:04 AM
KenMac, 
I appreciate that.  I called the Leeds dealer yesterday and had a somewhat confused conversation with one of their sales guys.  They said they could get one within a couple weeks, and sometimes had them on the grounds.  I told him I may come visit, and try them out.  

However, were spectacularly uninformed on the specs.  I simply asked how much it would lift.  He said his book showed 35% of the tipping load.  Nope, wrong.  Then he said 50% of the tipping load. I said, no thatís not it either, thatís just the safe number.  Then he went the other way and said more than the tipping load, thatís why itís called a tipping load, and I said I donít believe that a 74 hp machine can lift more than 12,000 lbs. At that point, I had to explain to him that the tipping load was based on the frame stability and arm geometry, not on the pure power of the hydraulics in a deadlift to clear the ground.  I said if I put weights on the bucket pin, how much weight would it lift off the ground to 6 inches? I said thatís called boom breakout force.      

So then he simply said he didnít know....but he was sure that it would lift somewhere between 35% tipping load and 100% tipping load or somewhere between 3,000 and 12,000 lbs.  Well, duh.  

They also explained that any warranty work would charge for about 5 hours travel time, back and forth, plus mileage.  About $1,000 per warranty call.  Ouch.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Redhorseshoe on November 18, 2021, 01:34:36 AM
Man I can't believe how this thread took off!  (I'm OP)  anyway thanks everyone for playing along and offering up your advice & words of wisdom.  I just found a machine and will hopefully pick it up this weekend.  I've ended up with a case sv250.  This wasn't anywhere near my personal first choice of a cat 259 but the used market is so tight around here I felt like I had to take what I could get and think this will work well for me.  2015 model, 2500lb operating capacity, 500ish easy hours doing property maintenance for the now previous owner, no leaks, tight & dry machine plus the price was right.  I think it will serve me well and am anxious to put it to work!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on November 18, 2021, 06:20:17 AM
In response to the guy that ended up in the pond. My deer CTL has a emergency exit latches on the door and the back glass. Even my NH with open station has a emergency exit out the back glass. I would hate to have to be trying to exit the back glass of either machine but they are there. Makes you wish they had the handles over your head that you pulled the eject and it just shot you out. I would probably land on the mulcher.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on November 18, 2021, 06:29:40 AM
In response to the guy that ended up in the pond. My deer CTL has a emergency exit latches on the door and the back glass. Even my NH with open station has a emergency exit out the back glass. I would hate to have to be trying to exit the back glass of either machine but they are there. Makes you wish they had the handles over your head that you pulled the eject and it just shot you out. I would probably land on the mulcher.
Landing on the mulcher would hurt  :D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 18, 2021, 07:54:37 AM
Redhorsehoe, I'm glad you found your piece of gold, I'm still wallowing in the mud.  How is it working out?  Have you put it to work yet?

Apparently, the guy who ended up in the water ruined quite a bit of his machine, but Kubota Insurance is replacing everything that was damaged, no problem.  Good to know.  

Within one week, I've seen one CTL that had burned to the husk, and heard of one machine that had ended up in a pond.  I think I'll make a practice run on the whole emergency escape hatch thing, and make sure I can actually get out.  I don't want to be upside down, on fire, or swimming with the fishes trying to read the manual or squeeze through a hole I can't fit. I know it should be pretty self explanatory but I don't want to be looking for my glasses trying to read the label. :D :D

This is just another thing I've learned form this thread.  I never would have really thought about it, but even with a basic, non emergency rollover, I'd need to get out in an easy, non panic way, so I could go get another machine to turn it back over.  

Makes me wonder if any of you guys have had to do this?

      
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 18, 2021, 11:33:23 AM
If I was in your shoes with everything you want to do and I had to pick the top three it would be TAK,  CAT and ASV. I think you would like the cab inside and view in the CAT 299 when you sit in one. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on November 19, 2021, 05:56:24 AM
Robert here is your opportunity to develop a ejection seat for these machines. You can then sell it to all of the manufactures. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 19, 2021, 08:51:16 AM
I talked to a Tak sales guy yesterday, on their TL12 V2, he said the cab had 6 more inches of width than the Kubota, was taller inside, and had a little more ground clearance.  110 hp, and this guy actually could talk specs, and seemed to know what he was talking about.  The machine is a 12,000 lb class with almost 8,000 lb boom lift force.  So itís one of the stronger ones Iíve looked at.  The dealer is relatively close.  

Iíve noticed that the front swing door opening machines (Bobcat, Deere, etc) have tapered door bottoms, and so the door openings are smaller at the bottom, which means it makes it harder to get in and out.

I operate my tractor with the cab windows open many times anyway.  Besides being able to communicate with my wife, who absolutely HATES when I beep the horn at her to do something, I like breathing the fresh air, and Iíve also noticed that dusty cabs with fans and blowers simply recirculate dusty air the filters wonít catch, and itís nice to ventilate the cab sometimes.

I still have yet to sit in a full size ASV, Iím putting that in my priority list to actually locate one.  People sell them, but donít have them for me to butt check them.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 19, 2021, 06:30:44 PM
Haha your wife doesn't appreciate the horn, either?😂
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Tom King on November 19, 2021, 07:07:46 PM
I know a couple of guys around here, who ran a Cat, and a Bobcat for years, are now towing Tak's around.  One of them I consider the best heavy equipment guy around here.  He doesn't even have a track loader now.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stavebuyer on November 19, 2021, 07:11:29 PM
I know its an odd new world; but even with todays monopoly dollars, $100k is a substantial sum. Drive it at your place before you buy or do without.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on November 19, 2021, 07:18:28 PM
Robert here is your opportunity to develop a ejection seat for these machines. You can then sell it to all of the manufactures.  
my 742 came with one factory.  just drive fast and itll eject you.




I like breathing the fresh air, and Iíve also noticed that dusty cabs with fans and blowers simply recirculate dusty air the filters wonít catch, and itís nice to ventilate the cab sometimes.
you need to get the burrito fog cab filter option, its extra.





Haha your wife doesn't appreciate the horn, either?😂
i dont take that crap either.  have i got a skid steer story for you!?  (nope, sure dont)

i open the gate for my wife just about every time she comes and goes as its a bit of a chore with 3 dogs and heavy double gates.  this morning i warm up her car, and then she cant find the keys and is taking that and some other things out on me but its okay, she needs a punching bag. as she leaves i am opening the gate and she pulls up then stops right in the middle of the two gates so that i cant close them or keep the dogs in.  shes not in the yard or out of the yard, just sitting in gate purgatory... and beeps for me to come over to her window.  i hate being beeped at.  the dogs are right there eyeing a cat across the road that they want to kill and i am waving her through but the dummy wont move.. she insists with a nasty scowl and gesture that i simply must walk over to the window right this very second like im some serf. im thinking it better be a spider crawling across her leg or im fixin to lay into little miss attitude.

i come around to her as the dogs are raring to bolt out the gate and she hands me a donut thats been in the car probably for days. i tell her all the time to stop buying this poison and now she is gonna provoke a dog escape and a neighborly dead cat dispute to hand me a stale donut. oh buddy.  she starts yelling at me about being a jerk, i say "thanks for the donut hunny, now go to work" and point to the road like an umpire as i whip the donut at the dog and she takes off in a burnout yelling something that doesnt phase me.  


so.. honking at people.  great etiquette.   :D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 19, 2021, 09:28:53 PM
Yeah, we've been married for 30 years, and if I ever want to see her go from calm to white hot, all I have to do is sit in the cab, listening to the radio, and hit the little button on the side of the steering wheel.  Beep, Beep, do this and hurry up.  Beep Beep, do that and oh Beep Beep.  It's about to get ugly.


The Tak guy called me today, he said the earliest could get a TL12V2 was April or maybe May.  

I know its an odd new world; but even with todays monopoly dollars, $100k is a substantial sum. Drive it at your place before you buy or do without.
Yes it is.  We have to handle a lot of boards, make a lot of sawdust, and pop a lot of aspirin to make $100K. That's why I want this to be a one and done thing.  No do overs, no regrets, no wish I would have's.



Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Gary_C on November 20, 2021, 03:26:34 PM

Yes it is.  We have to handle a lot of boards, make a lot of sawdust, and pop a lot of aspirin to make $100K. That's why I want this to be a one and done thing.  No do overs, no regrets, no wish I would have's.
That's the best argument there is for NOT buying the largest most expensive machine you can find. You do not need the machine with the maximum lift capacity for those few times you need heavy lift. You need a machine that will do most everything you do everyday and be a daily asset to your operation. Speedy, agile and comfortable will get more work done than big.
It's kind of like buying a semi tractor. Yes, you can find them out there with over 500 HP engines but you can also find them with 265 HP that will do almost the same thing. No the smaller engines will not let you fly up steep hills without much shifting but either engine will get the job done.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Old Greenhorn on November 21, 2021, 07:39:59 AM
I have been reading along here but keeping my mouth shut and just learning. But @YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) I was thinking about your plight yesterday when I was down at the mill and Bill had brought back that brand new Kubota 75HP to the yard after a job. He has it on demo/loan or something and is still trying to decide if he wants to buy it or not. He currently has 3 bobcats of varying sizes and a Bobcat mini-ex in his fleet, plus the Toolcat, which I am using mostly these days. (Of course he has lots of bigger equipment too.)
 Anyway, in light of this discussion I climbed in while he was fueling it up. First thing I noticed was with the forks on it and that fence right up against the cab, it was a bear to climb into. I just couldn't find a good spot to put a foot and get a step up. I had to climb over the fence. Now with almost any other implement I could see getting in would be a lot easier, but that fence and lack of steps didn't appeal to me much. I am 6' but I had no issues getting thru the door and seated, fairly roomy, I thought. This unit does have the swing down door, which I also liked and the rear escape window, but I wondered how hard it would be to fit a full grown man through that window with a winter coat on. Visibility was bad but on the right hand side there is a heating/cooling duct that comes forward from the rear and obscures part of the window. Bill says it is annoying as heck and he may remove it, if he buys it.
 I noted that the safety arms come down and don't quite touch my legs but I did look and there is a limiter jackscrew that can be adjusted to raise up the resting position off the legs. Not sure what the rage is on that adjustment though, looks like it should be a fair amount.
 It does have a backup camera with a bunch of buttons, but I didn't mess with it and didn't take a lot of time to figure out the picture on the screen. I thought they could have found a better place to put the screen, it was awkward to view, I thought.
 I didn't have a change, or a need, to do any work with it. I drove it around a little and parked it. In general, I thought it was a pretty nice machine.
 I wish you luck in your search. Eventually it will come together, just keep plugging along.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 21, 2021, 11:54:04 AM
Bottom line for versatility the bigger tracked skid canít be matched thatís a fact.  No comparison between a 75hp and 100hp. Iíve had both. Hi flow hydraulics to run anything, tight maneuverability, traction, lift capacity and the list goes on. What about a wheel loader ? Your stuck in wet ground, no hydraulic power to run attachments very well, not as maneuverable and your not going to be working slopes or steep ground. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 21, 2021, 12:45:14 PM
Forks without a cutout in the brick guard should be illegal! Mine were like that, I finally got frustrated and took a couple of hours with a cutting torch and welder, and made them walk through. Much, much better.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: sumday on November 21, 2021, 01:03:09 PM
I'll definitely agree forks are the most frustrating attachment to try and get in and out in my experience. I've been thinking about cutting on mine too.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 21, 2021, 02:38:24 PM
@Old Greenhorn (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=42103) 
Excellent feedback, I had no idea there was an adjuster for the safety bar.  Thanks for taking the time out to check it out and hop in.  

I was watching some Youtube Videos the other day on "Flipped Skidsteers" and such, for entertainment and sleeplessness, because something had been bothering me on the JCB units but I couldn't put my finger on it.  They look sweet, but Dang the dealer is a long way away. Everybody says dealer support is paramount, and I agree.  Anyway, as I was watching a video of an excavator thing to roll and put a flipped JCB on it track, I noticed it was very difficult, and the JCB kept wanting to pivot and roll back to the heavy side, the side its single loader arm was on.  They finally got it righted, but it occurred to me that having a very strong and necessarily heavy single arm on only one side would naturally make it unbalanced and heavier to one side.  I've had enough close calls with my loader tripping pin its toes and going up on 3 wheels to know that the worst thing to do is fill a bucket with heavy dirt on only one side and raise the boom off the ground.  In situations where it is normally stable, it becomes unstable.  So now I'm second guessing that whole thing especially since I will be on precarious ground anyway.  I'm not saying their design isn't sound, it just makes more sense to me that the more balanced the machine, (with two loader arms, one on each side) the more stable the machine.  Just a thought.

   



 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 21, 2021, 04:32:32 PM
Forks on the ASV are no problem plenty of room to step on the back side of forks all the way across then on the machine front loader platform 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Old Greenhorn on November 21, 2021, 05:41:43 PM
Well, it was just sitting there and you had me curious. Yes, if you lift those safety arms and look right by the hinge, you will see a jackscrew and locknut that adjust the height. Maybe the other builders do something similar? I can't see a big husky operator working all day in one of those with the bars on his legs.
 I can't imagine that JCB would design a machine without balancing it out somehow. It just seems to be a little unsafe. Are you sure there are no counter balances in there somewhere? That arm has to weigh between 700 and 1,500 pounds.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 21, 2021, 05:44:33 PM
I disagree, Walnut- ASV's are as difficult as the rest to get into if the forks aren't step through. 
  
  YH, I suppose it would be heavier on that side, but I wouldn't imagine it would be enough to make a difference on flat ground. It could even be a benefit on slopes, keep the heavy side on the upslope. I've ran a lot of different equipment, and I can remember a few machines you had to do stuff like that with. In time I didn't view it as a drawback, but a benefit😊 For instance, I ran a lot of asphalt rollers. One thing a roller man is always trying to do is get rid of the marks that you leave, as the mix cools off. We had one old roller the had the drive motors mounted outboard, sticking out about a foot. That was a pain for trying to get close to stuff, but it also made the machine heavy on that side. So you would always have the light side trailing, so you were always running over the mark that the heavy side made.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 21, 2021, 05:57:54 PM
The door opens fully without hitting the forks back guarding. Iíll get a picture sometime 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 21, 2021, 06:45:57 PM
Right, but they're still a pain to get into. I've been crawling into several different models lately, a guy I cut pallet lumber for has several different ASV's that I use to unload with. I can't remember ever thinking, "oh wow, is this ever nice to get in and out of". I've never thought they were worse than anything else, just another skid steer for my 6'5", 295 lb self to crawl into. As a side note, one morning I showed up there and all they had on hand was an ASV RC30. I didn't have a problem using it, but I sure didn't want anyone to see me in it!😂 It actually did better with the package of lumber than I expected. The loader had plenty of power, but not enough counterweight on the back of the machine. Thankfully I've had lots of experience driving skid steers around on their noses😁 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on November 21, 2021, 08:57:51 PM
 YH,
Are there any Volvo dealers close ?
Same machine as the JCB I believe side entry 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: sumday on November 21, 2021, 10:14:53 PM
YH, I can't remember and I'm feeling too lazy to look back through the thread - have you looked at cat? I dug out a basement a couple years ago with a 299 and it was an absolute beast. Too rich for me, but it sure was nice. And it was on a very steep hillside, got around very well.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 22, 2021, 07:20:01 PM
Like I said absolutely no problem with forks on getting in and out. Plenty of room on a 120. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/24D81199-C3D3-4C6E-BA90-CFD25406FEE3.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1637626736)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/AB18B8F2-C3C9-496A-89FC-BF02537FD88B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1637626742)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/4DD64B66-914F-4BFA-BCE5-8BBADF923A6B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1637626743)
 
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Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 22, 2021, 09:36:40 PM
Well, there was a lot of activity today.  My goal was gonna finish this up, one way or another.  

I did another all day round robin and it started at the Tak dealership. They are a very big construction company, and sell and rent the big dog equipment, with stuff that had wheels bigger than I am tall.  They were upset because they can sometimes sell several Tak TL12's per day and won't have one for me until May or June due to their waiting list.  I sat in one, and the seat was made for midgets, even the seat belt latches weren't set wide enough.  So  they quoted me $85 plus grand so I said if they could get me one today, I'd pay cash and buy a new seat.  No deal, they simply can't get one.

BTW, they are also a Volvo dealership and they had lots of Volvo equipment, everything from mega rock trucks to 400 style excavators, and everything in between.  All except no Volvo sidearm Compact Track Loaders or skid steer. I asked them why and they just shook their head, they said no bueno, they are not good machines, in their opinion so they simply don't carry them anymore.  They said from a rental and heavy construction standpoint, they think Tak is best, and said Kubota is close second.  Anyway I did some more window shopping for wheel loaders and stuff.

I talked to the guys about the ASV machines, and they said the local places that sell them aren't really "dealers" but only "sellers" and don't give much post sales support.  So they get them in for trade because of unhappy customers with a lack of dealer support.  Good machine, but poor dealer support. Not a good combination.

So I went to the Cat dealer and told the guy I wanted to sit in a 299D3 because I had called earlier and they had a rental unit.  As I was getting in the door only opened 70 degrees or so, it didn't swing wide open.  As I was getting in, the door slammed on my hand, and the guy said "It happens" and I said, no, it shouldn't.  The cab was nice, but was cramped.  So I said work me up a quote, and he said it would be between $100K to $130K.  Uh, that was even higher than Bobcat.  Plus they couldn't get it for months.  Nope, moving on.

Back on the road, I drove into the Kubota dealership, and sat in a brand new SVL97-2, the biggest one Kubota makes, at 96 hp and over 12,000 lbs.  I looked for the lap bar adjustment nuts Old Greenhorn had talked about, and sure enough, they were there.  So I just sat in the machine for a little while, and it was quite comfortable with the lap bar not hitting me.  I went inside, and talked to the owner, my old school buddy and said work me up a price.  So I knew he had said a few weeks ago he could do mid to high $70K but it turned out, with the full cab, AC/heat etc, high flow hydraulics, deluxe air suspension seat, bucket, and metal debris guards over the hydraulic coupler, and a substantial Kubota cash back bonus, it came out to $73K including taxes, delivered, which was about $10K to $15K less than my nearest competitor bid that didn't include taxes.  That's a lot of money saved.  I asked if he wanted greenbacks on the spot, and he said I didn't even have to put a down payment, he said if I backed out, the next person in line would get it. So he figured I'd have it in mid January or so, which is fine with me.

So that's one and done in the books, time to look at mowers and mulchers.

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Magicman on November 22, 2021, 10:02:19 PM
I say congrats and at least you will not be looking over your shoulder and second guessing your well thought out decision.  thumbs-up
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 22, 2021, 10:08:44 PM
Good deal 👍. Wow you have been a busy boy checking and shopping. Thatís what you have to do. Sounds like your going to be covered with help and service with your buddy. Thatís definitely a big deal
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 22, 2021, 11:19:21 PM
That YH, he don't mess around! That should be a great machine, and possibly $60K less than the Cat? You could almost buy 2 of them🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on November 23, 2021, 05:56:19 AM
I'm glad you picked one out YH. We was getting tired of answering all your questions. :D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on November 23, 2021, 06:07:49 AM
YH,
Good for you , that's a great price
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Old Greenhorn on November 23, 2021, 07:15:25 AM
Fine Business! Even though I will never be in a position to buy such a machine I did follow along and share your frustration because I have 'been there' with other things. I am glad you found a machine with the features you want, at a price you find fair, with support you should be able to rely on. Not many get that lucky or stick with it until they do.
 The machine I sat in did not have a fancy air-ride seat as far as I know so I wonder how that will work out for you. It might be like riding in a space ship. I am waiting to see if Bill ever gets that forestry mulcher. I might be able to hook him up with a job or two when he does.
 I am very much looking forward to hearing how it goes after you take delivery on that beauty.
 Best of luck going forward!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 23, 2021, 07:25:06 AM
I appreciate all the answers and input, you can see Iíve used many in my decision even on the last day.  You guys gave me enough information to make me feel confident to make real time final decisions on the spot.  In some cases I was bringing up things the dealers didnít know, or even didnít want me to know.  For example, yesterday when I mentioned that Taks have an issue side sloping, the dealer agreed and said they throw lots of tracks and said they were ďone of the worse out there.Ē  

I have been called ďrelentlessĒ before.  Itís a personality trait that has served me well in many things, some things not so much.   :D  In this case it saved me almost $18K from my second choice brand.  Thatís a lot of Zaxbys Chicken Fingers.  

Another thing I did learn is how many people in the Forum rely on their skid steer or CTL in their business and consider them crucial.  

The Kubota color also matches my sawmill.   :D

Thanks All!





Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: nativewolf on November 23, 2021, 09:29:07 AM
We like ours quite a bit but with caveats.  So here is my advice:

Go and order the lexan door immediately.  The normal door with be gone the first time it's really whacked and if you mulch it will get whacked and having a door explode on you is no fun (ask us how we know).  

Watch the track grease system because over greasing (tightening the tracks) can actually cause the hubs to burn up (ask us how we know-they covered under warranty).

DEF system- well this one is just a nightmare.  Watch it.  They've done many recalls and maybe a new machine won't fail so easily.  

Fuel line.  See if the fuel line still does a hard 90 from a rubber hose into the fuel filter?  Get strainer, not a filter, inline to remove larger particulates.  Put this about 6-8" before the filter and you'll be able to watch it and clean as needed.

Self primes really well if you let it run out of fuel.

Very fuel hungry, It uses as much fuel a day as our 250HP 45000lb Ponsse Elephant.  One of the least impressive features.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 23, 2021, 11:38:46 AM
I was talking to the local Ponsse techs about DEF and tier 4 systems yesterday. They said they've only had a few DEF quality sensors go bad, the problem is the machine throws a fault code but the operators keep running them, hoping they clear out. Well then it locks the system and puts the engine in limp mode. But more in general, they said it seems the machines and trucks that are having issues, are the ones that idle excessively  The DEF systems don't do well with idle time, basically, so it is something to avoid.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 23, 2021, 01:08:45 PM
Did you get the Kubota door?  It's $3K, but my dealer also recommends the aftermarket ones, like the "Shield" version, 1/2" poly with a scratch resistant finish, direct fit for $700. 

The new Kubotas come with a 5 year DEF warranty, and he says they have gotten much better than in the past.  He said they used to be a DEF disaster.

Do you have a picture of your strainer install?

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 23, 2021, 07:29:08 PM
You might want to look into a Demo Dozer bucket. They are pretty incredible. This bucket has the removable floor. I can dig, haul dirt and other materials. Take the side plates off grapple monster logs and with the removable floor out see real well. Take floor out and use as a land plane and rock bucket. With the grapples down use as a Dozer and it works absolutely amazing. The class three receivers has unlimited uses for additional tools to use and any use you could imagine. There are many videos on U Tube of it in action. They are expensive but worth it. Use high grade steel and made in Iowa. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/A3A5686D-7143-46E8-BEB6-812E72E3BD1B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1637713679)
 
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Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: KenMac on November 23, 2021, 08:09:12 PM
Congrats Mr. Yellowhammer! I'm very pleased to know that my off and on again research for the same type machine produced the same results as yours!! Only complaint I've heard regularly is the A/C ducts are on the same side and the off side can get warm in hottest weather. Maybe the SVL-97-2's fixed that.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 23, 2021, 09:28:46 PM
The SVL-97-2 have several improvements, and are supposed to be more user friendly.  One of the things that helped me decide was the incredible reliability of my Kubota mower.  Also, that the Takeuchi uses a Kubota engine.  I can say that after driving around all day, I got in the cab of the 97 and sat back and relaxed.  I about dozed off.  That was a good sign.  

Another thing I saw, and I'm not sure I understand it, is the strength of the front glass door.  Road vehicles have a front safety glass windshield that won't shatter.  I personally had a vehicle kick up a wrench on the road and it stuck halfway through the windshield on my Chevy pickup, with the glass still intact.  However, when I was looking t at the Taks, they had one where the front winshield had exploded into thousands of little pieces of glass laying everywhere.  This is the same as what
@nativewolf (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24089)  describes.  So why isn't the front windshield an automotive style safety glass instead of just tempered glass?

 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: bigtim on November 23, 2021, 10:43:16 PM
Yes. Yes. Get the lexan. Cost me a right eye. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 24, 2021, 12:19:55 AM
Forestry equipment has Lexan windows for a reason.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: nativewolf on November 24, 2021, 07:35:35 AM
Did you get the Kubota door?  It's $3K, but my dealer also recommends the aftermarket ones, like the "Shield" version, 1/2" poly with a scratch resistant finish, direct fit for $700.

The new Kubotas come with a 5 year DEF warranty, and he says they have gotten much better than in the past.  He said they used to be a DEF disaster.

Do you have a picture of your strainer install?
So glad on the DEF issue...Mine is 3 years old now.  I would rarely say this but...buy the Kubota version. The doors are heavy and are going to need fiddling and it is a huge failure point.  I frankly think they should not sell them to anyone with a mulching intent without the door.  To me that is borderline negligent.  That glass will break, easily and there is nothing like a 5" diam piece of wood sitting beside your head to make you think about life.  
@bigtim (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=7555) *DanG sorry to hear about the eye.  It was a close call for us.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: nativewolf on November 24, 2021, 07:46:12 AM
Will do on the screen,it is a cheap napa part.  Also you should have the ability to finance the door with the machine.  

Kubota financed all my implements as well, fyi.  Grapple, 4/1 bucket.  Now I've seen
@Walnut Beast (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=49695) bucket...I want one!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 24, 2021, 08:01:34 AM
I need to call my dealer and see if the frame for the OEM forestry door is as the same frame as the standard door.  If the frame is heavier duty, heavier track, frame, etc, then Iíll probably just spend the $3K and have it put in by Kubota. 

If the door frame hardware is the same, then Iíll probably go with an aftermarket bulletproof 1/2Ē windshield at 1/4 the price for the same (maybe more?) protection.  Something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dteyBdRqzbA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dteyBdRqzbA)

The good news is since my current equipment has universal skid steer quick attach mounts, so all the attachments I have now will fit, including a heavy duty tooth bucket, demo grapple, hay spears, forks, and even my root ripper.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: K-Guy on November 24, 2021, 08:30:59 AM

Congratulations Robert
I just looked at one and like the front cab configuration with the vertical windsheild, that should reduce glare compared to the ones the are tilted towards the back.

I can't use one at my place, the ground is too soft, as I found out my first year on my property and a contractor did a year ago after I warned him not to bring it.

And yes I did give him a a big " I told you so!!" as I laughed at him.  ;D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: boonesyard on November 24, 2021, 09:55:30 AM
YH, I have the same rig you just bought, we purchased it new at the beginning of this year and my guys have run the ?!$% out of it. It has performed and held up very well, and my guys can break an anvil. Yes, they have improved the DEF system substantially and the 5 yr warranty is a nice piece of mind. The machine is a beast, power to spare and the lift capacity is excellent. I think I may have mentioned it, but we really like the pilot controls vs the fly-by-wire, a better feel. I'll be moving a good bit of class 5 around the new mill shed this morning, looking forward to getting back in it.

Congrats on a great piece of equipment, hope it performs as well as ours has. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 24, 2021, 12:18:18 PM
Forestry equipment has Lexan windows for a reason.
Exactly right! Extremely dangerous ! I can think of several recent incidents of people getting hit and very close calls hitting metal with the mulcher and it coming through the cab!! How and what ? One guy had a small piece of rebar come through the gasket area in a CAT 299 and stuck in his cab by his head. Lucky! Heavy wire also. A couple guys had some come through the metal. BE SAFE NOT STUPID! 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 24, 2021, 12:32:11 PM
A few recent ones. Make sure you clean the belly pans out on the machines and debris around the engine area. 
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Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 24, 2021, 12:55:04 PM
Yes. Yes. Get the lexan. Cost me a right eye.
Sorry to hear that! Listen to him! ĎThis is a piece of rebar he hit and came through the cab. Hit his leg and landed on his lap. Pictures not real clear. Was on a video. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/8467FAE8-5950-49B1-ABA9-C5EA0F372CD6.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1637776445)
 
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Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on November 24, 2021, 07:07:11 PM
For what these machines cost i dont know why they dont have CO2 flood or dry foam suppression systems. Id expect the insurance industry to push them into that. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 24, 2021, 09:44:57 PM
I agree Mike, you sure see enough of them burnt up 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 24, 2021, 11:24:21 PM
Iím surprised I never saw an OEM fire extinguisher on any of them.  Itís required on my Forklift.  Iíll have one on this for sure.  Plus insurance.  

With these being so low to the ground, how can you even reach the belly pan? Or is that part of the problem, you canít?  

Iíll tell you something, seeing these fires in the rear end of the machine makes a rear escape hatch pretty useless.  So having a front door or escape hatch that can open in any loader position is crucial.

Whatís the best way to clean these out, pressure washer, by hand, leaf blower?



Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 24, 2021, 11:45:44 PM
All of the above, YH. The only way I can get under my skid steer is to drive it up on timbers.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 25, 2021, 01:26:03 AM
For what these machines cost i dont know why they dont have CO2 flood or dry foam suppression systems. Id expect the insurance industry to push them into that.
I think itís a option on the CAT. Really expensive 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 25, 2021, 01:53:53 AM
Iím surprised I never saw an OEM fire extinguisher on any of them.  Itís required on my Forklift.  Iíll have one on this for sure.  Plus insurance.  

With these being so low to the ground, how can you even reach the belly pan? Or is that part of the problem, you canít?  

Iíll tell you something, seeing these fires in the rear end of the machine makes a rear escape hatch pretty useless.  So having a front door or escape hatch that can open in any loader position is crucial.

Whatís the best way to clean these out, pressure washer, by hand, leaf blower?
Like Barbender said on cleaning 👍. The ASV RT 120 F has a fire extinguisher in the cab and the rear window with guarding on it is the escape hatch. The belly pans are hinged and with 15+ground clearance itís pretty easy to get underneath. If your not mulching all the time your not going to have to do it as often. Just be prepared and aware of all the dangers and you will be fine. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on November 25, 2021, 09:08:39 AM
I know Big Bob is a fossil , but I drop the belly pan 2x a year.
Lots of stuff comes out , I was surprised at how much.
It's not easy , but also not hard . It's very heavy.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on November 25, 2021, 09:09:58 AM
Im sure fire is really good for replacement sales. 

 Its just surprising that the home lending industry has been able to force fire regs but not the iron lenders. 


Years ago i read the fire forensics website of a guy who contracted to the iron insurers and his entire business was blaming operators to deny claims.  Oil leaks and debris were his go-to screwyou so dont think insurance is eager to cover a melted mulcher. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 25, 2021, 10:23:11 AM
Good to know.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: KenMac on November 25, 2021, 05:13:56 PM
KTAC insurance has a pretty good reputation for settling claims fairly from what I've been able to determine. Best coverage I can find for my B26 by far. Just fyi.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 25, 2021, 05:37:44 PM
Switching gears to warranty. Iíve heard Kubota is very good about warranty claims. One example. A guy that has the 80 excavator said  he has 12k in repairs thatís set to go in and said one of the reason he really likes it is they are very good about warranty claims and itís all getting taken care of. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on November 25, 2021, 05:50:06 PM
That definitely means a lot, a warranty isn't worth much to me if I have to start fighting with them and prove to them that it wasn't my fault.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: btulloh on November 25, 2021, 06:28:20 PM
If you buy the zkubota insurance, it will pay for any damage including self-inflicted stupidity. They really try to get you to buy their insurance if youíre using Kubota finance. Doesnít sound like they lose money on it.  :D  But it any claim is no hassle. I opted to use my own insurance and pay for my own stupidity though.  :'(
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 25, 2021, 10:33:18 PM
The guy who drive into the pond with the mulcher got his engine and everything else replaced through Kubota.

I need to look into it.  

I also bought the hinged hydraulic coupling shields, but am wondering if there are other shields or covers in the full blown forestry package that I should piece into the purchase.  I donít want the steel cage and stuff, but more things that are for flammable debris shielding and shedding.  

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 25, 2021, 11:12:54 PM
https://armordilloguards.com/ (https://armordilloguards.com/)      They make guarding for your unit
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 25, 2021, 11:15:19 PM
https://www.hearmor.com/kubota-svl97-2-ballistic-door-and-cooler/ (https://www.hearmor.com/kubota-svl97-2-ballistic-door-and-cooler/)    Check them out also
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: btulloh on November 25, 2021, 11:16:27 PM
Sheilds on anything and everything are bound to be good idea when running a mulcher. Watching the guy on the mulcher I hired (from a safe distance) I was amazed at how many chunks were getting thrown around. I wonder how many hours it takes to get up to the good end of the learning curve. I reckon you can give us progress reports on that.

The insurance from Kubota will probably be in the $175 ish/month range depending on the deductible chosen. Pricey but good coverage. May be worth it for the first year runnng a mulcher.

Looking forward to see how this works out clearing back from your fences.  Iím a big fan of mulchers, but I donít want to own or run one, even though it would mighty nice to jump in and clean up a problem area whenever I wanted.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 25, 2021, 11:20:08 PM
If you decide on some other stuff your dealer doesnít have they can get this and other stuff in and install it for you that way you donít have to mess with anything 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 26, 2021, 09:02:28 AM
Thanks, I look into some of these.

I notice there is an adjustable max flow switch as an option.  I did get the high and low flow option, but I didn't specifically ask for the adjustable high flow. Maybe it comes with with it, maybe not?  Is that something I should consider if it doesn't?  I assumed if I needed high flow, I'd need all of it.

I'm currently looking for a used but good shape dozer blade and maybe a tree shear.  No luck yet.    

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: btulloh on November 26, 2021, 09:12:53 AM
Itís fun and educational watching you spend money.   8)

Have you picked out a mulher head yet?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mudfarmer on November 26, 2021, 09:33:00 AM
Do you know the guy that drove into the pond?

Just wondering how common that is, since the local dealer told me the SAME story as a sales pitch for insurance  :D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: btulloh on November 26, 2021, 11:42:39 AM
Yes, selling the insurance seems to be a point of emphasis with the sales guys.  Hmmmmm.   They also talk about the difficulty of just having it covered on your existing insurance.  When it was clear that I had no intention of buying their insurance, nothing more was said.  I provided a policy number and my agentís contact info and never had any issues from Kubota after that. Hmmmm.

So I have to cover stupidity and little issues, but Iím ok with that. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: sumday on November 26, 2021, 12:59:49 PM
When I got my bobcat ctl there was no problem insuring it with my regular insurance company. Gave them the serial number and the value and wrote what I thought was a reasonable check. I asked about fire, theft, accident, etc and they said it covered everything. Didn't ask about broken glass and such.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on November 26, 2021, 02:45:23 PM
Itís fun and educational watching you spend money.   8)

Have you picked out a mulher head yet?
Itís fun for me too, it makes up for miserable days like today, selling wood in 25į weather.  Brr.    
I donít know the pond guy but I think the scenario isnít too uncommon.  A  12,000 lb machine with a very heavy 3,000 mulcher head pointed downhill, and the slippery mud bank gives way and itís time to go swimming.  
So the moral of the story is donít get too close to the water.  
I did see the burned out hulk of one also.   Plus the one with the shattered glass.  Lots of damage and destruction. 
Iím actively shopping for mulchers but with the holidays everyone I need to talk to is off work.  
There is a guy in Gadsen Alabama who sells ďMonsterĒ cutters he makes in his shop.  @customsawyer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1861) bought one and Iím waiting to see how it does.  Supposedly it uses a better piston motor with lower heating and the stump jumper has full size carbides on it. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: btulloh on November 26, 2021, 03:39:49 PM
Ponds are treacherous machinery traps for sure. It was drilled into me by my father but of course I had to learn my lesson the hard way. Fortunately it was a minor thing and I just had to get a 4wd tractor unstuck after it dug all 4 wheels in up to the frame. The pond edges are always saturated and soft for a much greater distance than it would seem. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 26, 2021, 04:03:53 PM
Thanks, I look into some of these.

I notice there is an adjustable max flow switch as an option.  I did get the high and low flow option, but I didn't specifically ask for the adjustable high flow. Maybe it comes with with it, maybe not?  Is that something I should consider if it doesn't?  I assumed if I needed high flow, I'd need all of it.

I'm currently looking for a used but good shape dozer blade and maybe a tree shear.  No luck yet.    
On the Kubota Iím not exactly for sure of what the specifics of that switch. It could be flow sharing like this or adjustable flow if you have a head thatís like 37gpm and your machine is 40gpm then you can adjust it down to 37
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/01A779BB-8ACD-4B7A-B7B8-14C9888B2D41.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1637960567)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 26, 2021, 04:12:59 PM
Look on Machinery Trader and Auction Time also for the Skidsteer Dozer blades there are plenty there
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 26, 2021, 04:15:36 PM
Same with mulchers and tree shears
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on November 26, 2021, 07:42:42 PM
They donít call it Demo Dozer for nothing. Works amazing in the Dozer position for dozing in hard ground and grading  
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/7AB76EC9-16F6-48EB-A401-4CCF6C39DFAD.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1637973672)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/3F17C4FE-AC92-497B-96E5-E99DEA906764.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1637973671)
The
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/1C6EA0F5-337E-4029-84A5-6B8E5B248DCC.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1638121861)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/1C6EA0F5-337E-4029-84A5-6B8E5B248DCC.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1638121861)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/7CE5F249-613A-4D5D-9009-9F0E585A9FB8.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1638121851)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/998546D2-34DC-4710-901E-C7842630D289.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1638121860)
   
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on November 27, 2021, 09:08:09 AM
I don't think of what I bought as a mulcher head. It is more like a bush hog on steroids. To me a mulcher is a different setup. I ordered it last week and they said 2 weeks to get it. We will see. I figure if I get it mid Dec. That will be fine. I used to have a brown tree cutter type bush hog that went behind a tractor and was rated up to a 8" tree. I can verify that it would cut larger than that. I used it on a open station tractor and the biggest hazard with it was if you cut a tree off to fast it would kick the butt of the tree away from you and the top could come down on top of the tractor. With the one I recently purchased and it being on a skidsteer/ctl machine, I feel like I will have a lot more control over the speed of the cut and thus control of the direction of the tree falling. I don't have as much area to clean up as YH does and I'm not in a hurry to do it. So if I take my time I should be able to be careful and not damage the machine to much. I know famous last words. Obviously if I get to using the mower and it is throwing a lot more debris in the wrong direction than I will back up to plan B or C. Will keep y'all posted on how it works.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on November 28, 2021, 09:34:02 AM
Baumalight makes some nice mulcher heads , might be worth a look.
With your u tube channel you could get a discount , if your did some movies on it.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Redhorseshoe on December 04, 2021, 08:33:18 PM
Man, I still can't believe this thread took off like it did!  Anyway, just thought I'd give a little update now that I've been able to run the new skid steer around the mill a bit.  Long story short, it's great!  The lifting capacity seriously makes all the difference over our farm tractor (with FEL) I'd been using.  I can now seriously overload the slab rack and lift a massive bundle from it as well as move around full lumber units with ease.  The visibility is pretty bad but not a deal breaker by any means.  Overall, I'm happy with my new machine!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59605/Sterling_in_Skid_Steer.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1638667967)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 04, 2021, 09:26:05 PM
Great to hear. Nice unit 👍
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on December 05, 2021, 08:47:25 AM
Yep, that's good.  
Title: Re: Skid o
Post by: farmfromkansas on December 05, 2021, 10:08:22 AM
Redhorseshoe, how many HP is that new machine?  I have a tree shear for my Case 60xt, and it is very easy to get a tree on top of the machine.  Have to back up about the time the tree shears off, or it falls on you.  YH, have you considered just cutting a tree off and putting it on a pile to be burned later? Takes a big grapple to handle trees.  I usually cut the trees off, leave them lay for a while and come back with a chain saw, cut the larger parts out of the tree and then put the brush on a pile, and pile the bigger stuff to cut for firewood later.  Weed type trees, hackberry, elm and such are constantly multiplying along creeks attempting to take over the best of our farm land.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Redhorseshoe on December 05, 2021, 11:34:45 AM
82hp gross, 76hp net.  It's a case sv250, working load limit of 2,500 lbs.  It'll lift waaaay more than that though (not necessarily though)  I picked up a 16 foot pine log with a 38" butt that was cut down about a year ago just to see if the machine could do it.  It may have only been on the front two tires but it picked it up and moved it.  I won't be doing that again any time soon! 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on December 06, 2021, 12:21:42 AM
I am looking at the tree shears with grapples.  However, I used to make burn piles so big the could be seen from the Space Shuttle, but Iíd just as soon not do it anymore.  A mower or mulcher cleans up the trees and the mess.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on December 06, 2021, 04:41:40 AM
one really needs a hydraulic accumulator finger to hold the trunk being sheared, or at least a heavy brush bar to push it over as you nibble the but so that it lays down away before sever. 


These single circuit open back shears are pretty wreckless, just asking to get pinned or poked. A limb hits the control stick and all sorts of tragedy can rare up. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on December 06, 2021, 09:02:25 AM
I'm interested in what you are saying....I'm not sure I understand the difference, I've never used one.  I've seen adds for ones with accumulators some not, some that automatically close the jaws as a precursor to the shears, some I guess that have separate control circuit.

This style is what I'm looking at.  They range from $10K to $20K.

Dymax 14" Skid Loader Grapple Tree Shear by BOSS ATTACHMENTS take 2 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/4aPZf7bRZVY)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on December 06, 2021, 09:30:58 AM
that ones fine, its got control of the tree before turning it loose.  google "timberline HTC shear" for an example of a great tool for flattening your cab frame so itll never take a door again. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 07, 2021, 09:26:48 PM
Get a mulcher and be done with it. If you want to cut trees down do it with the disc mulcher. Any size and fast. Then use your grapples
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 08, 2021, 02:31:50 AM
Itís still Cummins power 132 hp. The new MAX cab. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/984D4736-B980-4E87-8B01-E9D21E2FB3A7.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1638948576)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on December 08, 2021, 07:55:28 AM
That things a monster!  

I was looking at attachments, and seeing all the tree shear attachments, and it occurred to me that it would be handy to have an attachment I could use on the log deck, to cut logs to length, so I didn't have to hand buck them with a chainsaw.  

So I started looking for hydraulic shears that would rotate 90į so could pick logs off the ground about midway, and could have a pretty big bite capacity.  Such a tool would be a huge timesaver at the mill, like a skid steer mounted sawbuck.

Has anybody seen one of these?  Or is there a different attachment that would do this?   
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Southside on December 08, 2021, 09:21:50 AM
Are you asking about shearing off logs to length or a grapple with a saw?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Magicman on December 08, 2021, 09:25:24 AM
Our sawmills quit taking logs that had been sheared rather than cut because of the fractured wood in the butt.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Southside on December 08, 2021, 10:05:12 AM
I fear the whole college football rivalry has gotten out of hand. YellowHammer must have been watching his game while wearing his new fangled "Feel the hit" Virtual Reality head set which @WV Sawmiller (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=28064) clearly had disabled the safety switch on and had locked in in "Full skull crush" mode.

Can you picture it now. A shiny new skid steer rolls up to an $8 / BF Missouri Walnut log in nowhere Alabama. The jaws pick up the log when suddenly the silence is broken as the operator yells "Look Martha, No Hands!", followed by the deafening crunch of jet black, clear four sides, 24" Walnut as it is instantly transformed into kindling wood. 

A sinister "Roll Tide" is then heard as the skid steer heads towards the stash of imported Ipe and Martha picks up her phone to call the local sale barn asking about available cattle.  :D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: WDH on December 08, 2021, 10:12:39 AM
The perfect Reality TV Show.  ďA Day at the MiltonísĒ. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on December 08, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
😂😂😂 YH, you don't want to use a shear on your logs, trust me. Although I get the sense that some of these guys would get some kind of sick pleasure seeing you destroy a high dollar walnut or white oak log with one😂😂 I believe it is Hammerhead Attachments that sells a grapple saw, one of my buddies bought one and seems pretty happy with it. He just uses it around a firewood processor though, no walnut😁
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on December 08, 2021, 11:24:43 AM
dont worry, NW still has a buyer for walnut toothpicks with metal.  ;D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on December 08, 2021, 04:10:01 PM
The perfect Reality TV Show.  ďA Day at the MiltonísĒ.
Thatís a great idea, Iím gonna film it for the YouTube! I wonít even have to saw wood anymore, Iíll be a gozillionare from the videos!  Just drive around and crunch up sawlogs and film it.  

There no way Iíd use it on a high value Alabama Walnut, but Iíd have a ball with it on an Auburn pine, a Georgia Dawgwood or maybe a Clemson Tiger maple!   :D :D
Bite, crunch, ďNext!Ē

I havenít seen a processor head small enough for a skid steer, but Iím looking!

This is what Iíve seen so far.  It cuts to length, and then splits it for the stove.  Who wouldnít want on of these?  Imagine what it could do to my sawlog pile?

Iíll look at the Hammerhead Attachment, also.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40v6Nq5d-L8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40v6Nq5d-L8)

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: ladylake on December 08, 2021, 04:25:59 PM

 Try running  some crooked snarly firewood though that, great for the staight stuff/  Steve
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 08, 2021, 07:54:32 PM
YH look at Vail X they make a tree saw that is directional along with the Disc Mulchers they have. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: nativewolf on December 08, 2021, 08:16:49 PM
dont worry, NW still has a buyer for walnut toothpicks with metal.  ;D
Toothpicks have to be right much good sized dragon toothpicks....and walnut.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: nativewolf on December 08, 2021, 08:17:54 PM
The perfect Reality TV Show.  ďA Day at the MiltonísĒ.
Thatís a great idea, Iím gonna film it for the YouTube! I wonít even have to saw wood anymore, Iíll be a gozillionare from the videos!  Just drive around and crunch up sawlogs and film it.  

There no way Iíd use it on a high value Alabama Walnut, but Iíd have a ball with it on an Auburn pine, a Georgia Dawgwood or maybe a Clemson Tiger maple!   :D :D
Bite, crunch, ďNext!Ē

I havenít seen a processor head small enough for a skid steer, but Iím looking!

This is what Iíve seen so far.  It cuts to length, and then splits it for the stove.  Who wouldnít want on of these?  Imagine what it could do to my sawlog pile?

Iíll look at the Hammerhead Attachment, also.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40v6Nq5d-L8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40v6Nq5d-L8)
Much better business model...smash a few walnut logs and get 1 million views and laugh to the bank.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Old Greenhorn on December 08, 2021, 08:36:38 PM
The perfect Reality TV Show.  ďA Day at the MiltonísĒ.
Thatís a great idea, Iím gonna film it for the YouTube! I wonít even have to saw wood anymore, Iíll be a gozillionare from the videos!  Just drive around and crunch up sawlogs and film it.  

There no way Iíd use it on a high value Alabama Walnut, but Iíd have a ball with it on an Auburn pine, a Georgia Dawgwood or maybe a Clemson Tiger maple!   :D :D
Bite, crunch, ďNext!Ē

I havenít seen a processor head small enough for a skid steer, but Iím looking!

This is what Iíve seen so far.  It cuts to length, and then splits it for the stove.  Who wouldnít want on of these?  Imagine what it could do to my sawlog pile?

Iíll look at the Hammerhead Attachment, also.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40v6Nq5d-L8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40v6Nq5d-L8)
Much better business model...smash a few walnut logs and get 1 million views and laugh to the bank.
You guys do realize you are starting to sound like "THEM" now, don't you? (Quick buck, little work, I deserve my piece of the pie too!) I'm shocked, shocked I say. :D ;D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on December 08, 2021, 08:50:12 PM
is it me or did bigfoot completely clone the halverson processor design?  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on December 08, 2021, 08:52:31 PM

 Try running  some crooked snarly firewood though that, great for the staight stuff/  Steve
have you ever seen one doing badly in curvy stuff?  i have never found a video of that and have looked, since i plan to do a slide tray feeder slaved to the splitter like that on my own machine also.  in my mind it should be one of the best processors in junky stuff if you can get it loaded on the trough.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on December 09, 2021, 01:59:29 AM
I like the slide tray, but not on a skid steer. Visibility issues.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on December 09, 2021, 08:15:36 AM
I look at attachments such as this, 12 inch capacity, seems decently fast, able to cut vertical trees and also reach up and trim limbs as well as logs laying on the ground.  I compare this to a mulcher which would have a slightly bigger capacity but is much more violent and harder on the skid steer.

The mulcher cutters clean up the debris which is a big plus, these style machines don't sling debris everywhere, which is also a big plus.

These seems to have a use, but I don't see them being used, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.  Are these just really toys, and not ready for prime time?  Out are they useful but limited or just too slow?  This is just one of several made by different manufacturers.  

Incisor ISR512 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/vkpwqsePNLA)


Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: farmfromkansas on December 09, 2021, 08:29:23 AM
That incisor looks a lot like a Kansas Clipper.  I have a Wichita Shear, only has 10" capacity.  A lot of trees I have to cut 3 or 4' high off the ground, which is ok, just spray the stump with some diesel and remedy, and it dies. Sticks up high enough you can see them from your tractor cab, so as not to hit them with your farm equipment.  Ash and hackberry rot off fairly quickly. Most of the problems I have are with bigger trees, and break hydraulic fittings.  That one looks like it is designed to avoid most of those problems
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: PoginyHill on December 09, 2021, 08:56:24 AM
is it me or did bigfoot completely clone the halverson processor design?  
At the beginning of the video it says Bigfoot is a supplier of Halverson products.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on December 09, 2021, 09:17:28 AM
i dont necessarily think they are toys, so much as they cost a lot of money to do what a man can do with a poulan wild thing and a sears pole pruner.  

a young land owner (or a kid on a tree service crew) has the back and hand tools to do the job cheap, but not the money to get into these hydraulic gadgets.  an old man with money but no strength or grandkids left, is probably one of the larger demographics who buys a machine like this so he can still maintain the back 40 alone into his upper years.  if the tree service owner bought one for his young monkeys to use they would be backing into clients cars and running the machine out of oil and just costing him money overall when they have cheaper tools and strong backs to do the work.

they dont make a ton of sense to timber contractors because they dont have grapple arms to bunch and there are so many other options that are better suited. which timber outfit doesnt have a buncher, dozer, digger or crawler loader to grub out small trees?  a skid steer shear isnt well suited for the woods at all. 


they do make a good bit of sense for ranching where one is always trying to keep the invasives out of the pasture while selectively keeping a shade species here and there. id expect them on a tractor in that case but quick attach should be pretty standard.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Peter Drouin on December 09, 2021, 12:35:10 PM
What do you do if you don't make all the though. Get out and try to cut a half cut tree with a chain saw.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on December 09, 2021, 02:13:32 PM
I would think youíd just go around and bite it again.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 09, 2021, 03:50:56 PM
They have shears of all styles and types for all sizes of trees small to over 20Ē and bigger. There are tons of manufacturers and they sell lots just like all kinds of different attachments for Skid-steers
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 09, 2021, 04:05:37 PM
i dont necessarily think they are toys, so much as they cost a lot of money to do what a man can do with a poulan wild thing and a sears pole pruner.  

a young land owner (or a kid on a tree service crew) has the back and hand tools to do the job cheap, but not the money to get into these hydraulic gadgets.  an old man with money but no strength or grandkids left, is probably one of the larger demographics who buys a machine like this so he can still maintain the back 40 alone into his upper years.  if the tree service owner bought one for his young monkeys to use they would be backing into clients cars and running the machine out of oil and just costing him money overall when they have cheaper tools and strong backs to do the work.

they dont make a ton of sense to timber contractors because they dont have grapple arms to bunch and there are so many other options that are better suited. which timber outfit doesnt have a buncher, dozer, digger or crawler loader to grub out small trees?  a skid steer shear isnt well suited for the woods at all.


they do make a good bit of sense for ranching where one is always trying to keep the invasives out of the pasture while selectively keeping a shade species here and there. id expect them on a tractor in that case but quick attach should be pretty standard.
They make feller butchers in shears and cutting type 20Ē for Skid-steers and people do buy them 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on December 09, 2021, 07:28:59 PM
Yeah and then wish they had a hot circle.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Peter Drouin on December 09, 2021, 07:55:42 PM
I would think youíd just go around and bite it again.


If it did not lean hard in a way to get to it with the hold arms. My luck, a bigger tree would be in the way. Never had one. I don't know. I would never buy a skid steer.
I have run some. Wheels and track ones.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on December 11, 2021, 05:51:10 PM
Somewhere in this thread someone mentioned that Yanmar bought ASV. I'm wondering if they did it for the dealership network? It would be nice to see Yanmar get a foothold here and this is the part that has been missing for them. In my view they are equivalent to Takeuchi with compact equipment. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 11, 2021, 10:24:13 PM
I did check to see if a ASV dealer could get the Yanmar excavator. Not all dealers can. Thatís probably a whole separate deal you need to be approved for to be a dealer 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 12, 2021, 04:22:47 AM
Manufacturers love to cut corners. You would think a 120k machine would have great lights. Nope! Upgrading front and rear to these new LED combo spot floods that are amazing for 80 bucks from a dealer that specializes in LED lighting for RVs M4LED.com
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/82A3CBB7-EBC1-4A4D-BF89-C0023966A6FB.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639300867)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/13B1EFA5-8450-460C-845E-8407446A3AEB.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639300854)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/E6E3C1A7-4A0B-4FE6-B7C3-D1D9EBED3E9D.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639300853)
 that I have gotten from him that were amazing compared to others
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on December 12, 2021, 06:55:37 AM
Well the mower finally got in. It does a decent job and makes the CTL burn a lot more fuel. I've run it about 4 hours now and still learning little tricks that make it better. In watching all the different videos of these and the mulchers I always wondered why the driver was going back and forth so much. Well I'm figuring that out too. It is rather disappointing how fast these things lose blade speed and how much power it takes to get that speed back up. So it is easier on the machine to take smaller bites. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on December 12, 2021, 07:02:23 AM
Here's a few pictures of my mower.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/20211210_095655.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1639309533)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/20211211_091607.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1639309526)


These next two pictures is of some clean up I did on one of my woods roads.



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/20211211_094947.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1639309542)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/20211211_095350.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1639309554)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on December 12, 2021, 07:13:56 AM
Well the mower finally got in. It does a decent job and makes the CTL burn a lot more fuel. I've run it about 4 hours now and still learning little tricks that make it better. In watching all the different videos of these and the mulchers I always wondered why the driver was going back and forth so much. Well I'm figuring that out too. It is rather disappointing how fast these things lose blade speed and how much power it takes to get that speed back up. So it is easier on the machine to take smaller bites.
What did you get?
I'm looking hard at a disc type mulcher but have yet to talk to someone who owns or operates one. I don't need a fine finish (chip size) and in my rocky terrain, using the ground as the anvil as with a drum style is not an option. My purpose is thinning a billion small stems per acre, all under 4-6" to a healthy number to promote growth. The density has stifled growth. Hemlock, birch, beech and red maple. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on December 12, 2021, 07:18:19 AM
It's the highest rated one made by Brush Monster. They are in Alabama. One of the things I like about this one is the size of the carbide cutters on the stump jumper. There is several other brands that offer similar
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on December 12, 2021, 07:55:14 AM
Here's a few pictures of my mower.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/20211210_095655.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1639309533)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/20211211_091607.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1639309526)


These next two pictures is of some clean up I did on one of my woods roads.



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/20211211_094947.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1639309542)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/20211211_095350.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1639309554)

It does a nice job
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on December 12, 2021, 11:50:25 AM
Apparently a few from Facebook has seen that it will get stuck too. I learned yesterday that with that much weight out in front of the pins, it makes the machine a little light in the back. Well that makes it to where it doesn't have much traction, and it will sink faster.

This was the first time.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/20211211_143836.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1639327599)


This was five minuets after I got it out the first time. Good thing I have other equipment to get it out with.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/20211211_161123.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1639327590)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: okmulch on December 12, 2021, 03:05:51 PM
I have used many different cutters on my skid steer. The best shear is a tree terminator made by Grace manufacturing. They have different sizes. We use a double blade 20inch with grapple for moving trees out once they are cut like a feller buncher. 


 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16734/E4705B83-EDF6-44AF-8B7D-604E9A8ECB40.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639338879)


We also use an ecomulcher  disc cutter that has stump grinding teeth on the bottom for ground level cut. We run Cat 299 d2 and D3ís with forestry packages on them. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16734/01F9E461-710A-4FA7-8156-2690A795318F.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639339143)
 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16734/A1FB5C9D-3D31-4903-BC76-7F94F8EB94F5.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639339244)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16734/1CE0C2A7-CF13-448B-A9C7-AC74A33BF0DD.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639339259)
  
Before and after. 
One of the best saws that rotate 90 degrees is a Dougherty Turbo saw made in Hinton Oklahoma. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stavebuyer on December 12, 2021, 03:10:14 PM
I have been "told" that is not possible with a rubber track CTL. Having buried mine worse; I knew different but I wasn't in the mood to take picture myself at the time.

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on December 13, 2021, 08:03:30 AM
I'm glad you got it out easy enough.  

I'll look at these cutters and shears.  

I was looking at some of the rotary cutter brands like Customsawyer has, with the stubby blades on the rim and the carbides on the disk, for mowing and mulching down stumps.  However, it seems that while dropping the head down to the ground to mulch the stumps, the blades are digging into the dirt and dulling and robbing power from the head?  

He mentioned that his cutter head had a slight angle to help prevent this, but it seems that the blades would be dulled out pretty quick.

  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: btulloh on December 13, 2021, 04:04:33 PM

Also check out the David Bradley machine. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39962/77ED2BA0-78F9-4C73-8E86-B807AF51CE53.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639429344)


I think it was called  the Widow Maker
Title: Skid steers and tip cows
Post by: Jeff on December 13, 2021, 05:57:30 PM
I know this is irrelevant to any thing, but everytime I see the title of this topic, i want to add, "and tip cows"  it must be the plural.
Title: Re: Skid steers and tip cows
Post by: 711ac on December 13, 2021, 06:24:21 PM
I know this is irrelevant to any thing, but everytime I see the title of this topic, i want to add, "and tip cows"  it must be the plural.
Took me a few minutes, but I got there Jeff :) .
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 13, 2021, 06:35:23 PM
Amazing the difference in great lighting with excellent LEDs 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/C44521BF-2EFD-492C-AEC2-2BEBDDA666C7.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639438478)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/E42B534A-52B5-4539-B58F-CE20AB576103.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639438470)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/E91BAE5C-9A22-43A0-B2D8-1282423F9E40.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639438470)
   
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: newoodguy78 on December 13, 2021, 07:27:33 PM

Also check out the David Bradley machine.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39962/77ED2BA0-78F9-4C73-8E86-B807AF51CE53.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639429344)


I think it was called  the Widow Maker
Good name for that one. You still using it?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: btulloh on December 13, 2021, 07:54:30 PM
 :D  No and I donít think I want to. I kinda like having feet attached to my legs.

I saw it advertised on FB marketplace today. $350. There are plenty of David Bradley collectors out there and I bet it wonít stay around long.

It did looked like it belonged in this discussion though.
Title: Re: Skid steers and tip cows
Post by: YellowHammer on December 13, 2021, 10:13:25 PM
I know this is irrelevant to any thing, but everytime I see the title of this topic, i want to add, "and tip cows"  it must be the plural.
I wonder if there is an attachment for that.  It sounds fun.  


As I was talking to customsawyer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1861) about the two mud baths he gave his Deere, it seemed to both of us that the the ending up in the pond stories had a ring of truth.  A heavy cutter on the front of the track loader, overhanging the muddy bank at the pond edge, and the track loader tips up on its front toes, spin the tracks a little backing up, and whoosh, before you know it, youíre in the pond.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: newoodguy78 on December 13, 2021, 10:31:08 PM
I can see how ending up in the drink is a very easy thing to pull off. Just want to get the edge nice and clean. All of the sudden,whoops...
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Andries on December 13, 2021, 11:25:37 PM
Seeing customsawyers pictures of his skid steer in the bog took me by surprise.
Our water has gone hard about a month ago - almost forgot that could happen. . . 
It also explains his interest in mega-rated recovery straps too! 😄
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on December 14, 2021, 12:05:52 AM
When a skid steer with a nose heavy attachment or something too big on the forks starts to get stuck, especially backing uphill.. you just gotta stop before its too late.  Push down with the attachment, raise the toes and start putting junk underneath to rock forward on and raise the heels for more junk to shove under.  

Its a lot of work to build yourself a mat road but its usually easier than snorkeling to hook the strap. 


Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 14, 2021, 12:36:14 AM
Amazing the difference in great lighting with excellent LEDs  
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/C44521BF-2EFD-492C-AEC2-2BEBDDA666C7.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639438478)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/E42B534A-52B5-4539-B58F-CE20AB576103.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639438470)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/E91BAE5C-9A22-43A0-B2D8-1282423F9E40.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639438470)
 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/FFDEE2FB-623E-42F0-89A8-335F855E7034.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639460121)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/44C07A69-5E9E-4A15-9816-4D9669EAF86F.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639460119)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/66BA9FA4-9297-45F1-BE38-ACA33DF59C42.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639460115)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on December 14, 2021, 06:11:57 AM
Both times that I got stuck I was going through a small ditch. With the center of the load about 3 ft. in front of the pins it makes it light on the back of the machine. This puts most of your traction on the front idler pulley. When you go to climb out of the ditch and the front spins it doesn't end well. It basically puts the tracks trying to lift the front and the back of the whole machine at the same time.  I think in the future when going through a ditch I will put the lift arms in float mode and see if that helps. I know if I was mowing on a steep hill or pond dam I would put the loader arms in float mode to keep the machine with full traction. Might even have to add wider skid plates to the bottom of the mower. I also mentioned to YH that it might be wise to consider a little smaller/lighter mower due to the steep ground he has to mow. My Deere actually came with some decent lights.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Crossroads on December 16, 2021, 04:00:15 AM
My Kubota tractor with a snow blower on the 3 point has a blown head gasket and possibly a cracked head. So, Iíve been pushing snow with the skiddy. If it gets above freezing and things get soft, it does okay. If the ground is frozen and there is packed snow or ice, the tracked skiddy donít do as well. I ordered some screw in studs that should be here today, hopefully that helps. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on December 16, 2021, 07:20:15 AM
The screw in studs helps alot on my tractor tires, don't see why they won't make a big difference on your ctl. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Southside on December 16, 2021, 07:57:04 AM

Also check out the David Bradley machine.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39962/77ED2BA0-78F9-4C73-8E86-B807AF51CE53.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1639429344)


I think it was called  the Widow Maker
Boy that exposed drive belt between the tires scares me to death on that machine.   :D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: ladylake on December 16, 2021, 03:12:24 PM
Go big.  Bobcat s300, cat 299, kubota 95, case 90XT, new holland LS190 etc.  If you are a holder-onner id go with rubber tires and OTT tracks as needed.  


Long term track frame ownership gets spendy.  Someone just mentioned only getting 200hrs from an $1800 track. Then theres frames, idlers, tensioners, final drives, rollers..  Forget all that. The skid steer was invented to GET AWAY FROM undercarriage expenses.  4 tires is under a grand and lasts for years if youve got a plug kit.
 Where did you come up with 200 hours. I'd think 1000 t0 2000 hours depending on you treat them , Tracks are great in the mud and don't tear up the log yard as bad.  I have both.  I use the track machine a lot more but it's a side door Volvo which is hugh around a mill lot  . Steve
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on December 16, 2021, 03:53:23 PM
i didnt "come up" with it.  days before i made that post someone i cant recall shared their experience of only getting 200 hours out of an $1800 rubber track on their machine. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: ladylake on December 16, 2021, 04:58:38 PM
 I've always  heard 1000 hour + and more if you treat then right. The one with 200 hours must wear a post maul  out in 200 swings.  Steve
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 16, 2021, 07:40:28 PM
If I donít get over 2k hours out of my tracks I would be furious. Multiple guys mulching everyday with the ASV 120 F 2,500 and 3k hours. Maintenance and how you run it 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Crossroads on December 16, 2021, 09:14:16 PM
My skiddy had new tracks and drive sprockets when I got it and one of the tracks broke inside of 20 hours. The track company wouldnít warranty it because they said the undercarriage was worn. 😤 I bought new track and lower rear idlers and it runs smooth now. Before it made noises I didnít like and the tracks would come off pretty easy. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 16, 2021, 09:21:05 PM
Why would you need a tractor to plant or drill crops in when you could use your skid
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Southside on December 16, 2021, 09:25:44 PM
What's the tow rating on them?  Hydrostats don't do well fuel wise when it comes to pulling a draft.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 16, 2021, 11:40:33 PM
Years ago I had a CAT multi terrain ( tracked skid) 55hp. And had a Great Plains 606 no till drill it worked like a charm. Had some hydraulic hoses that ran to the rear to lift and lower the drill. Now Iím getting ready to drill in 58 acres over CRPwith a 1006 Great Plains no till drill with the Beast so we will see how it does. Still have the long hydraulic hoses and quick couplers that I need to attach to the drill. And hitch
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stavebuyer on December 17, 2021, 06:24:17 AM
Why would you need a tractor to plant or drill crops in when you could use your skid
Good point. I should sell my tractors and pickup truck. Put an SMV triangle on the CTL and have no need to buy auto insurance or tags.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Crossroads on December 18, 2021, 01:49:47 AM
Put the studs in the tracks this morning and it made a huge difference!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 20, 2021, 07:46:24 PM
Got started planting. Absolutely a dream planting. Bottom wet ground is a piece of cake. Rear camera with the LED lighting itís daytime at night planting.  Photos later. Phone and pad are down
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on December 20, 2021, 08:25:23 PM
Just like a big Case QaudraTrac.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 20, 2021, 09:08:42 PM
The grass seed is like a pound and a half per acre and is expensive! 2,800 bucks for 57 acres.  Seed is really lite so mixing with oats to help feed uniform. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Southside on December 20, 2021, 09:53:48 PM
What is the seed?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Southside on December 20, 2021, 09:56:48 PM
Just like a big Case QaudraTrac.  
More like this version of a Quadra Trac.   :D
Horsepower  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd8219Nj2so&t=5s)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 20, 2021, 11:42:53 PM
What is the seed?
Thirteen different seeds. Alsike Clover, Blanketflower, Lemon mint and Canada Milkvetch just to name a few
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 22, 2021, 01:51:26 PM
Why would you need a tractor to plant or drill crops in when you could use your skid
Good point. I should sell my tractors and pickup truck. Put an SMV triangle on the CTL and have no need to buy auto insurance or tags.
Why not your retired. Just trade your tractor in for John Deere with IVT 31 mph. Heck my CTL in high is 12-14 mph and rides like a Cadillac 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 22, 2021, 02:12:30 PM
Planting with the 10 ft Great Plains NT drill between 4 - 6 mph at 1/2 throttle no need for any more. Had at 3/4 and just didnít need to.  Iíve figured Iím using in the ballpark of 3/4 gallon of Diesel per acre. This New CRP mix is a tricky one to  plant and lots of guys are not happy and having trouble planting to get right. The equilivent of a cup and a half of seed per acre at 48 bucks plus adding oats and adjusting to get right 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 22, 2021, 02:18:15 PM
 
Planting at night is like day when itís dark with LED lighting. (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/662B0210-3D49-4202-A5AD-84A933B2F968.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1640200530)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/389AB1B5-D32A-4A1B-85AA-264744881EB3.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1640200518)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/6F3CAF78-4D30-4777-93B5-A32432164D0B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1640200514)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 22, 2021, 02:31:47 PM
 
 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/9272889B-4412-409C-AC9F-5A0EE3DE3660.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1640201139)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/3FA181FB-8072-426A-A4E1-E852CE3D3EDD.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1640201114)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 22, 2021, 02:35:31 PM
Pulling through washouts that a tractor wouldnít even try unless it was a big one is a cake walk. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on December 22, 2021, 07:37:09 PM
So you really aren't worried about the wear and tear on the tracks and gear?  How many acres?

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 22, 2021, 07:47:39 PM
Amazing weather to be planting in December at 55 and even warmer weather tomorrow. Running less than half throttle. 1,900 rpm. Plenty of power and speed at that.  
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/D29D1B03-CD6F-4618-8C56-267DB13C4069.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1640220249)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/CDF6F0B9-9571-440D-B23E-E7B1913225C4.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1640220269)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 23, 2021, 10:15:04 PM
So you really aren't worried about the wear and tear on the tracks and gear?  How many acres?
Not worried at all.  Ran over probably hundreds of trees most cottonwood and cedar and stumps from various sizes of a quarter to pop bottle size and a few bigger. With stumps two to five inches. Welcome to CRP. No matter how much you do, spray or how nice it is.  Had a few get caught in the planter I had to cut out. But none in the nasty stuff in tracks. They would get kicked out. 58 acres officially planted. Takes a little time with a 10 ft drill. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/81A32E34-D0C3-47D8-9354-5D28FC91A68D.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1640315607)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/8799BE60-EBE3-4A36-BA4C-A0ED4C2E8F2F.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1640315630)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on December 23, 2021, 10:48:49 PM
Thatís impressive. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: newoodguy78 on December 24, 2021, 06:22:06 PM
What is the seed youíre planting? I deal with expensive seeds but 48 bucks for a cup and a half on that type of ground....ouch
Just a little jealous of your drill looks like a dandy 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 24, 2021, 09:50:32 PM
What is the seed youíre planting? I deal with expensive seeds but 48 bucks for a cup and a half on that type of ground....ouch
Just a little jealous of your drill looks like a dandy
Here it is. The first picture is with the oats mixed in. All of the CRP mixes are fairly expensive. I had five bags of oats and used four mixed in and that worked perfect
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/23357C73-4778-4196-85AF-F45017145E5E.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1640400520)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/4F40E2BE-ACCE-4355-AD28-5D04568B43F9.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1640400516)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/7A9F8A8D-2078-4A69-AADB-520695A666BC.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1640400508)
   
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: newoodguy78 on December 24, 2021, 11:03:10 PM
Not up to speed on crp regulations donít know if itís an option or not but I priced out some cover crop cocktails pre blended last year the cost savings of buying the individual seeds and mixing them myself was substantial and well worth the effort. 
If itís something youíre interested in pursuing let me know and Iíll put you in contact with the supplier they were excellent to deal with and had very reasonable prices. 
Interesting to see oats going in this time of year, glad that solution worked out. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: farmfromkansas on December 25, 2021, 09:07:09 AM
Did you have to plant all this stuff to get some CRP renewed?  I had some CRP and was glad to get it out of the program.  Found that scattering composted manure really renews the growth of native grass, and it produces like grass that has not been farmed out.  But the folks at FSA read the regulations and you are not allowed to scatter compost.  Only commercial fertilizer that just fertilizes weeds.  Did figure out that native grass is not compatible with ground if planted after manure, only brome does good on that ground.  Last quarter I bought was CRP, and it ran out end of September, so me and a neighbor cut and baled it, are selling some hay and donating some to those burned out west of here, and I hauled manure there to scatter as soon as the bales are gone. Will take a few years to produce enough to make a lot of difference with just 70 cows. But the ground I have treated this way is good hay production. Have to harrow the ground after scattering the manure.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: wisconsitom on December 25, 2021, 10:06:47 AM
Not sure how applicable to this thread, but it's been said to me-and this is in restoration work, i.e. prairie planting-that you'll never go broke regardless which cover crop, and at what seeding rate you use, but you might go broke spending too much time/effort trying to decide.  Generally not expensive seed.

We like winter rye in late fall-seeded dormant plantings.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Corley5 on December 25, 2021, 10:32:57 AM
I've got 15 acres of big bluestem that was planted as part of a DNR program.  Kind pricey at the time but it sure produces hay and our droughts have little effect on it.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on December 25, 2021, 12:15:22 PM
Only 70 cows he says  :D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: farmfromkansas on December 25, 2021, 02:05:42 PM
Before you get envious, think about spending all summer cutting, raking, and baling hay enough to feed 70 cows and calves. Today I only fed 3 bales, yesterday it was 6.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on December 25, 2021, 02:12:33 PM
Sounds okay to a guy who works every day of the year with no income at all.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 25, 2021, 05:23:21 PM
The CRP is a five year maintenance of burn off and inner seeding on a ten year contract. All contracts and incentives are different. For instance I will get reimbursed half the costs of all the maintenance. The new contracts now donít have that incentive. They do checks on compliance more than they used to, written warnings and getting terminated from non compliance. Anything in the designated areas that you want to take out before the contract is complete is going to cost you every dime they paid you plus interest. For example it was 5,500 pay back for 6 acres I took out for two lots. It could also be transferred to new owners if they agree to the terms and sign. Many benefits for nature and wildlife with CRP but a fair amount of work especially if it gets out of control. And it can in a hurry
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 25, 2021, 05:28:15 PM
The total payback of 5,500 of the six acres was three years in at the time.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 03, 2022, 04:23:01 PM
Doesnít matter what skidsteer you have when you need two 😂
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/AA26475C-3157-4A97-B6C7-5B2AE5F7F087.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1641244952)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: wkf94025 on January 08, 2022, 07:23:43 PM
I bought a Bobcat T76 last year, with log grapple, heavy duty bucket, pallet forks, and auger.  Couldn't be happier.  Wide track machine, which allows us to keep working despite 26+ inches of rain since mid-October.  Great financing, and dealer loaned me weeks worth of other machines while waiting for mine to be built/shipped.  Just over 10,000# before attachments.  I believe practical capacity before adding any counterweights is ~3,500#.  I can lift clean or lift one end and drag anything I would want to mill with my Lucas 7-23.  I think HP is in the 90's.  

I like the double lift of the previous post.  When I need to move containers, I lift one end, and insert one or more rollers, typically ~8" log or 4" galvy pipe, then tow with ease.  

BTW, Bobcat just announced an all-electric skid steer at Consumer Electronics Show this week.  Cool.  I think.

When I was shopping last spring, I consulted my brother who sold for Perkins then Cat for decades.  He said go Cat all the way, except in the skid steer space, where Bobcat ate Cat's lunch, with a best-in-class product and great support.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/64567/20210720_164733.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1641675116)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 08, 2022, 08:16:39 PM
Nice setup! Pretty tough to beat a higher hp tracked skid steer for all around use
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: sumday on January 11, 2022, 06:12:29 PM
For me this is a skid steer question, others it might be a FEL on a tractor - what if anything are people treating their bucket with to keep snow from sticking in it? I was thinking diesel or a diesel/used motor oil mix sprayed on. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: KenMac on January 11, 2022, 11:12:41 PM
I treat mine with Alabama weather!! (Sorry for the smart aleck answer. It just was my first thought.) :D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 12, 2022, 12:42:50 AM
This guy claims he has over 8,000 hrs on this ASV and he is in Canada using it to thaw a cattle tank that froze up at -40 😂. I had one of those models and they had the sliding glass door that went up over your head and two small individual lap bars that had all the gauges on them 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/020A3669-17AE-4A61-ACB3-8354B77CEA7F.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1641966147)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on January 12, 2022, 07:17:39 AM
For me this is a skid steer question, others it might be a FEL on a tractor - what if anything are people treating their bucket with to keep snow from sticking in it? I was thinking diesel or a diesel/used motor oil mix sprayed on. Any thoughts?
Try silicone spray. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: KenMac on January 12, 2022, 10:12:05 PM
An aerosol named "Fluid Film" has quite a following for undercoating, protecting hydraulic cylinder rods during storage and other such uses. It is basically lanolin similar to hand cream but it does seem to work well. It might be worth trying if you're not in Alabama weather.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: newoodguy78 on January 13, 2022, 12:46:27 PM
A couple good thick coats of fresh paint works as good as anything Iíve found, protects against salt as well. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on January 22, 2022, 07:27:38 AM
Well I got my YouTube channel up and going. I recorded a video of my brush cutter doing some TSI in a mature stand. Don't have much experience with the mower or YouTube so be gentle. Don't even know if I copied and pasted this right.

Some mowing on the John Deere 333G with a brush cutter - YouTube (https://youtu.be/agULTYDzfo8)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: dgdrls on January 22, 2022, 07:49:47 AM
Copied over just fine CS,  looks like your getting a hang of it just fine.

D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Andries on January 22, 2022, 08:22:41 AM
That link worked well, and the video quality is great. 👍
Have you got a lot of land that youíll be giving the TSI treatment?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: farmfromkansas on January 22, 2022, 09:59:29 AM
Does that cutter leave short stubs?  And do you have to go around with stump killer after mowing the trees off?  Looks useful at my place, not sure my Case would be big enough to handle that cutter. How long can you run it before your oil gets too hot to run?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on January 22, 2022, 01:21:23 PM
You can cut the stumps as short as you want. The shorter they are the higher chance of contacting the ground. On the hardwoods I'm sure they will sprout back from the stumps if not treated. One of the reasons I chose this mower is that it uses a piston driven gear box that increases the output and lowers the oil temperature. I give a little bit more detail information about it in this video. Y'all are welcome to subscribe to my channel as I'm sure there will be other stuff to watch as I learn more about the mower and the Youtube thing.

The advantages of the brush monster brush hog - YouTube (https://youtu.be/CQjm8nnKR4I)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 22, 2022, 03:20:30 PM
Nice job! That should get Yellowhammer fired up for getting his new setup. Many guys running the Deere and Kubota mulching day in and day out that are pretty happy. Just need to make sure you keep debris cleaned out and on top of good maintenance 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on January 23, 2022, 07:20:06 AM
Andries I have about 20 acres I could do this to. I won't do all of it as I'm in need of getting the timber cut. Don't see the point of putting that kind of wear on my skidsteer when a cut down machine and skidder will be mashing it down before long. I'm mostly cleaning up areas where the woods have closed in on the road around the property. It's been so wet that if I go back with the tractor it would likely get stuck.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on January 23, 2022, 08:47:57 AM
While I'm waiting on the Kubota to show up, which shouldn't be much longer, I'm casually sorting through my brush cutter options.  My dealer has two different brands, a medium duty Kubota cutter and heavier duty Paladin Ground Shark cutter.  Both have piston drives, which is common on the heavier duty machines, and both have 4 swinging reversible blades.  Both also have carbides under the disk to grind stumps down, but the carbides on both are smaller, maybe 1" diameter.  As a matter of fact, I haven't found one brush cutter yet that has carbides on the disk that are "full size" like those used on a disk mulcher, except one, so I'm wondering why?

It's the one Customsawyer has, its a relatively newer brand, made in smaller quantities and a small shop, and it has the full size disk mulcher carbides.  It looks like a well built machine, and when I asked my local mega dealer why thy didn't carry them, he said they were good cutters as far as he could tell, but the guy was too small time to keep them fed in product.  That's not a hit against them, its just how many cutters my buddy sells, sometimes 80 at a time.

So the one Customsawyer has, maybe he can fill in the details, vibrates pretty hard when cutting, but is otherwise smooth when not engaged.  He's had to tighten up the gearbox bolts, as shown in the video.  I talked to another buddy at a service shop, and he told me, for what its worth, that loose gearbox bolts are not common, and he was curious also.  He said sometimes the gearbox bolts loosen up on the Kubota (which is made by Woods) or the Paladin, but not routinely.

So after all this background info, is there a reason the major or well known cutter brands don't use the full size carbides on the disk?  It seems to me that using full size cutters it would be the normal thing, not the exception.  Here is a picture of the Kubota cutter using the smaller carbides.

I had looked at full disk mulchers, but I have lots of grapefruit and baseball sized rocks everywhere, and when I asked my dealer what would happen if I hit rocks with the carbides, he said matter of factly "You replace them, they can't take rocks." So with the little bladelets of these style cutters, they can take more rock hits.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/IMG_2572.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1642945074)
  

 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on January 23, 2022, 12:04:42 PM
Well I got my YouTube channel up and going. I recorded a video of my brush cutter doing some TSI in a mature stand. Don't have much experience with the mower or YouTube so be gentle. Don't even know if I copied and pasted this right.

Some mowing on the John Deere 333G with a brush cutter - YouTube (https://youtu.be/agULTYDzfo8)
Subscribed Custom Sawyer
I like the summer weather  :)
Lots to look out for doing that
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on January 23, 2022, 12:06:53 PM
YH in looking at the cutter teeth under the disk. The one you posted a picture of has 5 cutters on each side of the gear box in one row and 4 on each side the other way. Mine has 4 and 3. I don't know what the difference is. I have learned that these cutters don't do much when it comes to grinding the stump. It's a lot quicker to tilt the leading edge of the mower forward a little and use the blades to do the grinding of the stumps. I don't have rocks but would think the blades could take a rock hit better than carbide teeth.
Thanks for the click Bruno
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 23, 2022, 11:03:50 PM
Yellowhammer FAE makes a rock crusher that works really good for your skid. Just saying 😂
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 23, 2022, 11:21:01 PM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/5E8ECD28-498C-4AA2-B07B-7815E08797A0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1642997902)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/5E8ECD28-498C-4AA2-B07B-7815E08797A0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1642997902)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 24, 2022, 08:22:00 AM
A guy did this with a tire grover on some worn tracks. Said it made a big difference and didnít take long to do. Some ideas 💡. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/998E67B6-5FA5-413D-8375-2C8B7D47A2A7.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643030486)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/BA46C8C9-812D-4F77-97FC-37B840381AC9.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643030481)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 25, 2022, 05:40:29 PM
How the new ASV 135 stacks up to all others.    https://youtu.be/NOUq_7Hoyiw (https://youtu.be/NOUq_7Hoyiw)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stavebuyer on January 25, 2022, 07:01:50 PM
A stock early 1970s vintage IH 66 series 6-cylinder 2wd tractor(8,10,12,14 series it wouldn't matter) would pull any one of those machine's backwards in high range without spinning a tire.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on January 25, 2022, 07:23:35 PM
How it stacks upn according to the guys selling it. When does a seller ever come out and say, "you know our machine is really about a solid 3rd place in everything"😁
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 25, 2022, 09:14:34 PM
A stock early 1970s vintage IH 66 series 6-cylinder 2wd tractor(8,10,12,14 series it wouldn't matter) would pull any one of those machine's backwards in high range without spinning a tire.
I doubt that with the weight comparable. I had this tractor and Iíll take my ASV over it any day of the week 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/8EAA40D5-B690-4771-899F-E58C6DDFF165.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643163091)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on January 27, 2022, 07:06:32 PM
I like those 2 old Dodges !

This showed up last month. Too much snow to play with it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/25148/20211230_105141.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1643061177)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/25148/20211230_130849.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1643061263)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/25148/20211230_153328.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1643061297)
 
Looks rugged enough and the price was right. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on January 27, 2022, 10:19:11 PM
Is that new or used?  It looks great.  Where do you get it? 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 28, 2022, 12:43:55 AM
Congratulations on the new toy. Looks great 👍 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on January 28, 2022, 05:16:31 AM
Yes more info please.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on January 28, 2022, 09:00:30 PM
I found it on machinery trader.com. It came from a equipment dealer that also has rentals. According the the sales guy they got it in, welded in a company stock number and added it to their rental line along with advertising it for sale. It never went out on rental. Paladin, parent company of Bradco and others had a YouTube video and it and the $20k price tag with delivery for $500 so I jumped in. 
I had been admiring the Diamond disc mulcher (or this type of mulcher) and did a half hearted search for a dealer in state (Maine) then this popped up. It's got a quadco disc and cutters and plenty of steel in it's construction. 
I'm entering into the nrcs system and tsi and invasives are some of the first projects I want to tackle. I'm completely green to mulching other than my YouTube degree :D Other than that I'm very familiar with the "dirt work"/farm equipment. We are very rocky around here but there are lower areas that are  more reasonable. This is why I went with this disc type as the ground is not as much your mulching partner with the cut and grind technique (watch Diamonds YouTube) and my chip prettiness does not matter. 
My target is overpopulated hemlocks, red maple and beech, and anything over 6-8" will be firewood. 
That old Gehl is 110hp and high flow, I have well drained gravelly soils and steel over the tire tracks and hopefully is my power unit. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 28, 2022, 11:00:38 PM
That Beast you have should be fine 💪. I know a dealer that says those big dogs are pretty good. You will find out but stay safe! Some guys will buy a big piece of Lexon glass cut it down and mount in front of there existing door
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on January 28, 2022, 11:40:31 PM
That lexan trick is exactly what my Kubota dealer said to do.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 28, 2022, 11:43:44 PM

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/5E8ECD28-498C-4AA2-B07B-7815E08797A0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1642997902)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/5E8ECD28-498C-4AA2-B07B-7815E08797A0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1642997902)

Iíve got a friend down in Texas that has this and thatís the job it does
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/6D87187E-51D3-4E6C-B653-BF16CA4AEAD1.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643431402)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on January 29, 2022, 07:27:13 AM
He's got a crusher plant on wheels! 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on January 29, 2022, 08:41:14 AM

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/5E8ECD28-498C-4AA2-B07B-7815E08797A0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1642997902)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/5E8ECD28-498C-4AA2-B07B-7815E08797A0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1642997902)

Iíve got a friend down in Texas that has this and thatís the job it does
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/6D87187E-51D3-4E6C-B653-BF16CA4AEAD1.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643431402)

I have seen a unit like that run 
Looks like a great way to take back old roads 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on January 29, 2022, 09:13:44 AM
Wow, that is an angry machine.

I was looking at one of these ES brush cutters, or at least this style.  it looks fairly tough, considering it's eating a 3,000lb concrete block to dust.

I think this is why I may steer clear of carbide teeth disk munchers, although they look fantastic.  The replacement carbides are up to $3,000 a set and I have lots of surface rocks.

Playback has been disabled on anything but YouTube, so you'll have to click on the "Watch on Youtube" link to watch it, it's impressive.  They show a picture of what the blades look like at the end, they don't look as bad as I thought they would.

ES 72" HD Brushcutter vs Huge Concrete Block- YouTube


ES 72" HD Brush Cutter vs Concrete Block - YouTube (https://youtu.be/CsY73OIKNr0)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Andries on January 29, 2022, 04:58:50 PM
Alert to Administrators; that last post by YH should be moved to the ďDaily CarnageĒ thread. 😉
Seriously impressive abuse!
Do they show how it does with trees, brush and overgrown meadow? Itís one thing to go bananas on a concrete block, but how well does the deck discharge an over-feed of stringy vine and brush.
Great research, as usual YH. Thanks.
(Sorry, went to their website which shows some good footage of the deck in action.)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on January 29, 2022, 06:29:40 PM
I think this is why I may steer clear of carbide teeth disk munchers, although they look fantastic.  The replacement carbides are up to $3,000 a set and I have lots of surface rocks.

None of the disc mulchers that I looked at had carbide cutters.
They can be touched up with a grinder and also turned to a sharp side. They are "Quadco" cutters, the same as on a feller buncher. They talk about moving the bottom cutters to the top as the bottom cutters will be the ones that engage the ground inevitably. 
I hope this is true, it's the basis of my choice decision over a drum style that is almost constantly in the dirt, the basis of the design other than topping and grinding the lower 8-9' on the stump, then grinding the top-against the ground. 
As for the bush hog style, in my estimation (basically a guess) would leave the small sticks on the ground unless you tilted the nose down into the ground. This is based off my actual bush hog/tractor use. I do have a small (low flow) "Ambusher" rotary mower, and it's absolutely not a mulching machine but more of a brush cutter that works ok by lowering it on your target. It's limits are a few 2" trees at a time. They were on of the first SS mowers and have been around for 20 years. 
Right now mother nature's dropping 12-18" of more snow adding to the time for me to actually try it out.   :embarassed:
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 29, 2022, 08:05:09 PM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/79B86E02-9B47-4882-AE6E-FDD0155CA00A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643504627)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/36557F17-D9DD-4766-A58B-FD5C0EB36D9E.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643504679)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on January 29, 2022, 10:24:39 PM
Excellent detective work, thank you @Walnut Beast (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=49695) 

So they can use steel or carbide and both. 

I have seen that several of the bladelet style of cutters had a shaft that is at an angle to the head, so that it naturally wants to cut low to the ground on one side. 

What interesting about our Alabama Appalacian hardwoods is that with the somewhat gravel ground, as the tree grow in diameter, it basically displaces the dirt upward, creating a little hill of rock around the trunk.  Depending on the size of the tree, the rocks will form a rocky hill 6 inches high, 3 foot in diameter around the truck, hidden under the leaves, and I canít see me cutting too low to the ground anyway before I start crushing rocks.  

Our ground is exceedingly hard and rocky, when we rented a big ride on ditch witch, the rental agency noticed and got aggravated on how much the teeth had worn down in just a weekís trenching. 

Iím pretty sure I donít want to hit the ground, and if I do, it will be like chewing into that concrete block on the video.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on January 29, 2022, 10:29:40 PM
Andries, I donít know about big vines and stuff, other than a couple of the videos that have posted where seems to do OK.   

Blue diamond disk mulcher carbides, $131 each, and the cutter requires 44 of them.  A little north of $5K.  Iím sure there are less expensive out there, and maybe the steel are the way to go.

https://www.bluediamondattachments.com/product/disc-mulcher-carbide-tooth-for-1033-series-44-req-30-60-req-44/ (https://www.bluediamondattachments.com/product/disc-mulcher-carbide-tooth-for-1033-series-44-req-30-60-req-44/)


The twin maul steel tooth kit is just over $1,000 per set.  

The quadco steel cutters are about $25 each, as best I could find which out them at $1K per set.  Certainly much less expensive than carbides, especially since they can be sharpened.  

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 29, 2022, 10:54:55 PM
Just to let you know some of these guys that are doing this everyday are trending to the smaller version of the disc mulcher There were a few reasons and one was maneuvering. You probably do know but Blue Diamond is a different company than Diamond mowers. There are several different outfits that do teeth 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 29, 2022, 11:24:33 PM
Some guys will run dull knives in rock vs carbides and say they will still cut as good but wonít last. A friend of mine that has North Alabama Land Clearing runs knives on his 300 hp dedicated mulcher. We just talked about that last week. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 30, 2022, 02:47:26 AM
AFE is the original of the disc mulcher. They are really good but some donít like the tower with the pump in it for visibility.  
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/F9CC06AB-7FE2-471F-8276-FF68B7CEB8B2.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643528781)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Foragefarmer on January 30, 2022, 08:27:15 AM
Who runs a disk mulcher on here with drum head experience? I run a SVL 95 with a Fecon head. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/69177/24CD2831-A756-47E5-AC20-38EBE57B41C4.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643549202)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on January 30, 2022, 08:31:50 AM
I can't afford tp spend $30K on a Drum Mulcher, but are their some lower cost alternatives or brands out there?  Maybe a $15K Drum Mulcher?  I'm not going into business so it won't be used commercially, just "farm" duty.

I had noticed that some companies were offering 48" inch disk cutters as well as their bigger ones.  It makes sense that the smaller ones would have some advantages.  

I'm just still amazed that a short bladed cutter can munch though a couple thousand pound concrete block and turn it into gravel.  I couldn't imagine what that would have done to my bushog.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 30, 2022, 10:06:59 AM
Check with Chris Wilson he has Tennessee Valley Equipment he sells dedicated mulchers, mulching heads along with the Kubota dealership. He might have something or get you something in your range. He knows his stuff. He also has a big mulching company 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on January 30, 2022, 04:47:11 PM
Just to let you know some of these guys that are doing this everyday are trending to the smaller version of the disc mulcher There were a few reasons and one was maneuvering. You probably do know but Blue Diamond is a different company than Diamond mowers. There are several different outfits that do teeth
I would think that the inertia of a smaller disc would not be as beneficial a larger (heavier) disc other than the physical size for more selective cutting possibly?
Disclaimer;
Remember my only experience is watching YouTube.  :P
Edit, that was kinda stupid wording I chose, what power or cutting abilities would you sacrifice with a lighter disc would have been better. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 30, 2022, 05:24:19 PM
Absolutely valid point. The bigger ones have that. I was trying to remember the conversation with the diamond mowers rep that told me about that. Iím not for sure if the spool up was faster from the bog down point on the smaller one. Iíll have to check into that. Thatís been bugging me 😂. Having the piston pump on yours is very good 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: okmulch on January 30, 2022, 05:43:28 PM
I have been using this type of mulcher since they first came out.  I have mine customized to only cut and grind stumps underneath blade so pastures can been bush hogged with out stumps when we reclaim pastures from cedar. The outside if you look close is quadco teeth. Carbide cut good until they chip  and then It just eats the tooth away quicker.  As was said you can grind the quadco with an angle grinder sharp again and rotate. I will see if I can get a pic of the underneath with the thumbnail carbide stump grinding teeth. We use those underneath so they donít dull as quick when in the dirt.  I have been using this cutter since 2015.  
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16734/E85190AC-16BD-4F68-B6DB-87AB3225AB19.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643582214)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 30, 2022, 05:50:03 PM
Who runs a disk mulcher on here with drum head experience? I run a SVL 95 with a Fecon head.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/69177/24CD2831-A756-47E5-AC20-38EBE57B41C4.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643549202)

Guys that have both love it. They will use the disc for the speed of knocking a area down and finishing with a drum. A few more benefits of a disc is you can reach and get at trees in and under a fence line and other tight places. If your taking trees in various places the speed of sucking a tree in and spitting it out and traveling to the next one is way faster. Your material is not going to be as nice but some will say for pasture work the disc is dispersing the material with the bigger chunks so the grass can grow as opposed to having a bigger pile of fine material that would need a little more time to back drag out. Thatís why you see guys that have bigger dedicated machines along skids with discs is the speed of mulching and travel speed. The down side is they are dangerous with the slinging of material in bigger chunks and not as nice of finish. The disc is way more demanding on your machine than a drum also
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on January 30, 2022, 06:03:49 PM
These are two different guys I know that cover thousands of acres and look whatís on the front of the skids 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/E092760F-5B51-455C-8F0B-FC784E51815B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643583798)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/BB3F3225-2304-44A2-AC2C-3CD6B1D018B4.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643583799)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on January 30, 2022, 11:44:45 PM
Yeah but look around.  nothing but prairie grass to mulch  ;D


Fwiw i bet you can run steel teeth forever if you are willing to refinish them yourself.  I have welded hardface on mild steel then sharpened it for the flails on my front mount mower.  It can mow cinder blocks and the hardface has never lost the original edge i ground in. They make some incredible hardface mig wire for mining applications.  I cut someoff the spool and use it like tig filler.


A hardened tooth probably made from S7 steel or something like that.  Likely needs a preheat and postheat to not shatter from welding but thats easy enough.  Worth a try anyway.  You may find that a good hardface lasts longer than an oem tooth.  Ive never resharpened my flail from the time i built it.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: scsmith42 on February 06, 2022, 07:56:07 PM
I spent some time on a late model Cat CTL today. It is the softest riding skid/track loader that Iíve ever operated. 

Apparently Cat has some type of suspension on their track loaders that really smooths out the rough ride.

I was impressed.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on February 06, 2022, 11:34:48 PM
When I went to visit them, they told me that they had the entire undercarriage mounted via a huge torsion axle suspension system.  I was supposed to be extremely smooth, and it sounds like it was.  A cross between a ASV and a conventional undercarriage as far as smooth ride.  

I looked at them, visited twice, and wow, beautiful machines but they cost almost 30% more than a comparable hp rated unit by other vendors, even the more expensive brands.  They started at $100K and went to $140k when similar HP machines, topped out at $100K or well less.  For example, a top of the line Deere was $90K with everything.  The Bobcat was $86K.  The Kubota, with a $3K cash discount is $73.  Plus Iíd heard the Cats have more than most a tendency to poof into flames when mulching.  At least thatís what I was told, although also from what I was also told, pretty much every brand has a tendency to light up like a tennis ball dipped in gasoline.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Magicman on February 07, 2022, 08:49:51 AM
Since the entire engine/hydraulics are enclosed, small debris collects underneath the engine, etc. providing a perfect tinderbox for the smallest spark.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0114.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1623113732)
 
  That is what happened with the New Holland that I had to put out last June.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0107.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1623113710)
 
Here the owner is removing the panel to access the battery to disconnect the battery cables.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike_belben on February 07, 2022, 09:55:35 AM
battery arc?  the new holland battery location and thin tin right there kinda gives me the heebie jeebies. 


the cats use a simple rigid track frame but the machine rides in the cradle between the track frames suspended on 4 rubber torsion stub axles exactly like a dexter torflex trailer axle end.  i bet cat licensed it from dexter.  looks much cheaper to manufacture than the ASV torsion bogies of the prior art. 

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Magicman on February 07, 2022, 10:20:39 AM
battery arc?
My situation was detailed here:  LINK (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=113386.msg1827093#msg1827093)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: farmfromkansas on February 07, 2022, 06:55:29 PM
The neighbors have a Bobcat with suspension under the cab.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: newoodguy78 on February 07, 2022, 10:23:44 PM
Do you know what year that machine is?
Iíve spent a lot of time in a T300 Bobcat , great dependable tough machine but man did that thing ride rough.  Glad to hear they improved. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: OH logger on February 08, 2022, 06:24:25 AM
I think bobcat started with the torsion bar about 4 years ago if I had to guess which REALLY smoothed out the ride. No option of suspension under cab as far as I know. My T870 has torsion bar my old T770 had nothing. WAY better ride 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Foragefarmer on February 12, 2022, 08:10:50 AM
These are two different guys I know that cover thousands of acres and look whatís on the front of the skids  
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/E092760F-5B51-455C-8F0B-FC784E51815B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643583798)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/BB3F3225-2304-44A2-AC2C-3CD6B1D018B4.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643583799)
 
A lot tighter quarters around here. Did a 2.5 acre old homesite property for a couple days this week.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/69177/IMG_3836.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1644670814)
 
There is a state road up ahead through the privet in there somewhere.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/69177/IMG_3841.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1644670889)
 
The state road is just out of frame to the left.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/69177/IMG_3840.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1644670974)
 
I found where they used to work on cars. Stuck tight in the head, had to back it out with a chain wrapped around a tree hooked to the teeth. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: farmfromkansas on February 12, 2022, 08:33:57 AM
Can't remember the # of the neighbors Bobcat, but it is fairly new, maybe 3 years old.  Has tracks and about all the options.  Not the biggest machine.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on February 12, 2022, 07:38:58 PM
Not mine but thatís one reason besides
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/CA02744C-F5FD-4383-94F5-95ACD3273BEB.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1644712714)
 a fire that you need a rear escape. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on February 14, 2022, 07:45:36 PM
Texting  ;D
Then the poor sob has to climb back in once someone has a chain on his tail!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on February 14, 2022, 08:07:20 PM
I guess somebody forgot to say ďHey, thereís a ditch over there.Ē

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on February 14, 2022, 08:55:24 PM
Hope you had a good Birthday Yellowhammer!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on February 14, 2022, 11:03:15 PM
It was pretty good.  I didnít touch the sawmill all day.   ;D

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: beenthere on March 10, 2022, 10:05:38 PM
Me thinks someone has a new toy.... work machine.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on March 10, 2022, 10:24:26 PM
Well Hooray!  My CTL finally showed up and also my Ground Shark cutter.  I've been using it for a few days now, and it is extremely smooth and seems to run the cutter very well, at least with what little I've run it.  I've also got a 4 way bucket that's pretty nice, and of course all my other attachments including grapple, root cutters etc all fit, so I've been like a kid in a candy store.

I've been trimming limb, only maybe a quarter mile so far, but I've already discovered an issue.  If a tree branch gives me any lip, I just cut the whole tree down, which in some cases is probably a little extreme.  It's rated at a 10" tree, but I've whacked a couple bigger.

I'm a newbie with CTL, so I thought it would be cool to film it.  

Reaction Video! - Amazing! Using A Hybrid Brush Mulcher for the First Time - WOW! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/hB3s4xifcGU)




Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on March 10, 2022, 10:46:40 PM
Congratulations!! Looks like your pretty happy with everything!!! Glad you are! Great video 👍
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on March 11, 2022, 05:37:23 AM
Great video.
You will learn there are tricks to that brush cutter to get the best performance.  Don't ask me what they are as I don't have them all figured out yet.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on March 11, 2022, 07:39:20 AM
The biggest problem is that I have so much for it to do, I'm not sure where to start. I love the open door ability with it, where I can talk to Martha while I'm operating. 

There is one thing I wish I had filmed, because I didn't know it was there.  It's the manual hydraulic line pressure release on the low flow male connector.  I was having issues getting my line connected and having to with to float mode to release pressure, so I called up my dealer and asked why, he said take my hand, make a first, and punch the male low flow side connector.  The entire fitting will translate 1/8" into the manifold, and release the pressure.  I said "Whaaa???" and I took a dead blow hammer, gave the fitting a little tap, and instant magic, not more hydraulic pressure.  I have been hooking up hydraulics for decades and have always been fighting this and this is the first time I've heard it????  Where was the memo????  Jeez. 

I'm also looking at getting some long forks for it, so I can more easily unload freight off trucks, or even logs off our trailer.  I had seen some sets, but they are only rated for 5500 lbs, which isn't strong enough.  I've been looking at Class 3 sets, but I'm finding forks, but not skid steer carriers.  Ideally, I'd like to get some 7 foot long sets, 6 footers minimum.

 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Andries on March 11, 2022, 07:18:35 PM
Very good looking machines Robert! Once you have all of the attachments for all of the chores, itíll be a bit like a Swiss Army knife, except way better. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Cornerstone on March 11, 2022, 09:42:47 PM
I'm also looking at getting some long forks for it, so I can more easily unload freight off trucks, or even logs off our trailer.  I had seen some sets, but they are only rated for 5500 lbs, which isn't strong enough.  I've been looking at Class 3 sets, but I'm finding forks, but not skid steer carriers.  Ideally, I'd like to get some 7 foot long sets, 6 footers minimum.
Hey there YellowHammer, congratulations on your new toys! I ran into this same issue recently. I already had a set of forks and a carrier from a tractor that I sold a while back, but the mounting tabs were not designed to fit my skid steer. I cut the tabs off, bought a 1/2" thick mounting plate for skid steers and welded the carrier to the mounting plate. You may be able to find a set of forks and carrier used, buy a skid mounting plate for a couple hundred bucks and solve your issue. Possibly save some greenbacks at the same time. I know a set of 48" skid steer forks around these parts of Texas were starting at $1000. I bet a set of 72" forks would be a bunch more.

On a side note, I recently bought a very similar brush cutter, I got the extreme duty from SkidPro also with a 10" capacity. It's kind of a power trip to be able to take out trees that quick isn't it! Ya kinda have to watch yourself and not get carried away!   
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on March 12, 2022, 12:43:22 AM
Thatís a great idea, I will start looking for those.  

Yeah, itís fun to take out trees especially when my tractor bush hog would really fight it and this cutter doesnít even hardly feel the hit.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on March 12, 2022, 04:18:10 AM
The problem I see with the longer forks is I would think they would be easier to bend. These machines are strong. I have bent my 4' forks twice that Deere sold me with my machine. I'm now searching for a stronger set. On the other hand I've seen 8' forks on those big Taylor forklifts and they don't seem to get bent. I think my problem is in getting logs you end up trying to get one off of the top of some more and put the forks in some bad angles with the weight at the tips.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: thecfarm on March 12, 2022, 05:48:15 AM
Now that's a weapon!!! 
Looks like some nice ground you have there. 
I have rocks sticking up about once every 10 feet. ;D Then there are a bunch more that the leaves have covered up.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stavebuyer on March 12, 2022, 02:43:16 PM
I think you will have fork frame issues with longer/heavier forks. SSQA frames aren't nearly as stout as the Euro style pin type couplers.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Cornerstone on March 12, 2022, 07:54:23 PM
Does anyone know what the fork classification numbers represent?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on March 12, 2022, 09:01:45 PM
You might be able to lift but just remember the longer the forks the less lifting capacity unless you have a little more weight in the rear. Many guys and a few outfits sell a 3/4 inch plate that bolts on the back underneath that sticks out around the back several inches for protection of the rear when backing up and stability when you have the loader up in the air
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on March 13, 2022, 08:13:28 AM
I haven't seen those bumper counter weights.  I will look for one. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on March 13, 2022, 08:43:12 AM
I haven't seen those bumper counter weights.  I will look for one.
https://armordilloguards.com/ (https://armordilloguards.com/)    This outfit has some stuff for your unit. Iím not sure how thick their rear bumper is
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: taylorsmissbeehaven on March 28, 2022, 07:01:53 AM
Forgive me if this is the wrong place to ask this question, but they seem to go together. I am in the market for a grapple. It seems that the vertical grapple, "clamshell sorta thing with one single top claw" is the most popular style. The fella that I talk to about buying one seemed to think that the style with two separate "claws" on top that work independent of one another was better for picking up logs. Same price, so he shouldn't really care. Just wondering the pros and cons of each from some folks who have more experience than myself. I have a large amount of brush to clean up and then would be using it mainly around the mill for loading, unloading and moving logs. Any insight would be much appreciated. Brian 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on March 28, 2022, 07:15:19 AM
The advantage of the single top clamp is that the hyd. cylinders are less exposed and better protected. The disadvantage is that on odd shaped logs sometimes you are only gripping it at one point. If that point is off center of the weight it can present problems.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: taylorsmissbeehaven on March 28, 2022, 07:26:29 AM
 Thank you C.S. That was my guess, but wanted other opinions. I'm inclined to go with the yellowhammer theory that if it doesn't roll its not a log!! Sometimes I do get some weird gnarly ones that just begs to be sawed. If anyone else has an opinion Id like to hear it. I hope to make a purchase in the next week or two. Thanks again, Brian 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on March 28, 2022, 07:46:03 AM
Iíve had both. Hands down the independent is the way to go. No comparison 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on March 28, 2022, 07:51:35 AM
Cylinder protection and hoses that run inside are very rugged 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/D71B892C-A5E3-4AF1-8FEE-1B6447ABFFE7.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1648468245)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Andries on March 28, 2022, 09:48:16 AM
For use around the mill, mainly?
Forks.
Yellowhammer has just put out a video on the best use of forks and itís worth a look. If you want to jazz it up, a set of grapples can be added to the forks. Iíve been looking for a fork grapple that will raise up to a true vertical, so that it clears the back stop of the forks frame. That would be great for fetching logs to the mill, then lifting a 4x4x8 pallet of rough lumber onto a trailer. That attachment would always be on the loader around the mill.
For brush clean up and ground work, a root and rake grapple is the tool of choice. Everything CustomSawyer mentioned is on point. My grapple has a single lid, replaceable teeth and weighs just under 1000 lbs. That still leaves me 4000 lbs. of lift, which is more than enough for brush and ground work. One thing that hasnít been mentioned is that with the grapple tilted completely down and the lid all the way up, it can back drag brush and ground roots really well. Itís great for turning a brushy patch of bush into clean, raked ground thatís clear of debris.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: KenMac on March 28, 2022, 08:40:24 PM
My grapple is from Everything Attachments and only weighs 225 lbs. It's rated to handle 55hp, but I only have 26. It is on my tractor 95% of the time. It'd their Root Rake Grapple with one lid with two cylinders. I fully intend to convert it to independent dual lids at some point when I feel the welder in me come out. It will work better for logs, brush and firewood so much better. I see no down side to two independent lids.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on March 29, 2022, 07:04:10 AM
Forks are not sexy, but in my opinion, they are by far the most useful and will physically carry a larger physical load, simply because they have no top jaw to get in the way.  Forks are also much more versatile, also able to move pallets of wood, and load and unload tucks and trailers.    

I've got an independent two jaw, CA grapple, and its a beast.  It will crush what it won't grab, if you want it to.  It's extremely durable, if it could be broken, I would had broken it.  I use if for some pretty extreme clamping and lifting tasks, virtually non of it log related. 

The independent jaws allows it it pick up different sized stumps at the same time, for going into the burn pit.  It's also great for picking up brush.

I especially like it for pulling fence posts out of the ground, even with concrete still on it.

The most useful thing I use it for is sticking the teeth in the ground up to the ground bar (make sure the one you get has one), and raking through the topsoil, down to about 4 inches, full speed ahead, kind of like a root rake.

Other than that, it's good for gathering rust from disuse. 
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: taylorsmissbeehaven on March 29, 2022, 12:24:13 PM
Thanks for all the advice! I have forks on my tractor that I use moving logs about 80% of the time. I also have an excavator with a thumb that is good for unloading trailers, especially if they have fenders. My Dad has a independent style grapple but it has a full/closed bottom so doesnt function as a rake very well. I have about 2 acres of tops to clean up and will likely use his grapple. Eventually I will purchase one and I have seen so many of the vertical style on you tube recently that I was wondering if there was some wonderful attribute that I was un aware of. Sounds like it is just a preference thing. Thanks again, Brian
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: wkf94025 on March 30, 2022, 01:43:15 AM
My Bobcat root grapple has two independent fangs, each driven by its own cylinder.  Meaning single bite/un-bite control, but each fang operates independent of the status of the other, so when one hits log and bites, the other keeps traveling until it bites.  Like it a lot.  A single fang would seem to be a substantial step down, but I've never owned one other than this twin fang unit.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: sawwood on March 30, 2022, 08:51:50 AM
 I have the use of 3 Skid Steer, a 1835,1845 and a 60XT. I use the 60XT most of the time as
 it has the most HP. I use the forks most of the time but with unloading logs I will use the
 grapple. I also use the grapple to load logs on the mill as I am afraid of the forks hitting
 the mill rails. Sure makes working with logs and lumber great.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: boonesyard on March 30, 2022, 10:04:01 AM
Ours is a heavy duty 84" Erskine tine grapple with two independent grapples, but the forks are used far more for moving and unloading logs.

Where the grapple comes in handy is when we have a large pile of logs that I want to stay put, and work from the top. Our telehandler has the skid steer quick attach and aux hydraulics and works very well with the grapple pulling logs from the top of a pile or picking them out of a tricky situation. It's also great for brush and oddly shaped everything. If one has the opportunity, a set of forks and a grapple both have their place. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on March 30, 2022, 10:07:57 PM
Flat bottom is the key to a ultra handy grapple. I can barely grab a monster log and pick it up with a beer on there and set it down gently ready to drink it. Total control. Removable floor is a game changer. The only thing I canít do is move a pallet. Thatís why they call them pallet forks and have a set
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/F6F6F734-181F-4CB1-A141-07292C5B99E2.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1648692395)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/8EEF2DA6-F9BB-4E51-B4C3-CA1ED111756C.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1648692387)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/9067DCFC-409E-4139-AE66-316494607F6C.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1648692337)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/9C9FB0DB-71C8-41D9-9F58-2358D49F4B8D.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1648692334)
   
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on March 30, 2022, 10:17:25 PM
And yes some tracked units ride way nicer than a wheeled machine. Driving across a field at 12 mph I would be beat up in the wheeled loader. Tracked unit rages across the field smooth as butter
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on March 31, 2022, 06:27:23 AM
I have both flat bottom and curved bottom grapples. I much prefer the curved bottom. Each their own.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on May 02, 2022, 10:10:36 AM
Needed the bucket for dirt work. Within minutes I had the bottom in and sides. After that I took the impact and the sides were off to haul some longer stuff. Absolutely universal as it gets. Not to mention the receivers on the front. It comes with two and I had them put two more on.  They actually make two other options that are a  screen for the bottom for smaller rock and side extensions that match the bucket for snow removal 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/5F81ABF1-687F-452A-8386-2BF9CAED2EDC.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1651500539)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/289E18D0-D05B-4102-897E-8D0FDA1F07CE.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1651500557)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/BFB800B3-EA83-4B38-8F26-D2C22E994979.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1651500522)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/7B80CE4C-122C-4E86-80F3-9CC09926409D.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1651500522)
   
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on May 02, 2022, 10:34:42 AM
If your looking for for the best cutting edge this is it many guys run these on the Demo Dozer. Still need to get mine someday. Should have gotten it back then. Price is probably really crazy now several years ago it was somewhere around 1k back then
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/7D7435F0-8AB7-40AD-8800-00C93693414B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1651502039)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on July 08, 2022, 08:09:55 AM
After all the discussions and such, and after using it for awhile, I am very happy with my Brushmonster!

Brushmonster - YouTube (https://youtu.be/V7Y1q81Ow-o)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on July 08, 2022, 08:38:00 AM
Glad your getting along just fine and learning tricks and techniques. Was wondering how you weíre getting along with your Beast. You were pretty quiet for awhile 😂. Nice job on the video 👍
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: thecfarm on July 08, 2022, 09:20:12 AM
Yes, much easier than a chainsaw!!! 
I was clearing the back field. I leave the brush but take out anything about 2 inches across. Meaning anything 2 inches gets put into the OWB.
It works, but it's slow. 
No radio either.  ;D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Andries on July 08, 2022, 09:47:15 AM
ĎPower is nothing without control.í 
The beast has the power, and youíve got the control with the skid steer - very nice match-up.
Two thumbs up on the YouTube; which video production house are you using? 😉 😁
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on July 08, 2022, 04:25:17 PM
Iím using YellowHammer Studios, they are slow but they have a great front man.  Not too smart but really good looking!  

Now that itís summer I only have a little time to work on the videos because it stays daylight until 8:30, and the last thing I want to do is come in and work on videos for free.

I use the track loader every day, Iíve dug quarter mile ditches with it, cleaned culverts, pushed over trees, backfilled dirt (7 loads this week) and even use it at the mill.  Itís a beast and I love the 4 way bucket.  Very happy with it, and pretty happy with the cutter, although if somebody mentions John Deere Iíll probably throw up cause they really put the screws to me on the cutter.

The return rate on video payouts has dropped 60% for me this year, even though I have more viewers, more subscribers and more views every week.  So while my revenue should be steadily going up as all my indicators go up, my payout actually goes down and I make less money every month.  Nathan says the revenue is directly tied to business advertising so as the stock market drops as the economy fades, so too does the add revenue on YouTube.  Figures.  My videos caused the collapse of the US economy and Youtube.  More video work, more success, less money.  So itís hard to stay motivated when make less than I spend on Gatorade every month.  

However, itís kind of fun taken in moderation, and Iím having a ball with the skid loader.  

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on July 08, 2022, 06:09:35 PM
After all the discussions and such, and after using it for awhile, I am very happy with my Brushmonster!

Brushmonster - YouTube (https://youtu.be/V7Y1q81Ow-o)
I just watched you're video in the past day or two 👍
Yeah I've been subscribed since you brought it home.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on July 23, 2022, 12:09:27 AM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/763F1B14-609D-4F80-94E9-0276830ED701.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1658549299)
 If anybody knows Supertrak out of Florida they build some serious machines from the ground up with various platforms and have been doing it for a long time and have a excellent reputation and the used machines resale value proves it. They just released the new SK 190 based off of the ASV 135 and it looks to be a Beast. Probably around 300k 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on July 23, 2022, 12:49:57 AM
Those are some serious hydraulics, and I'm sure it has it's place. I just can't see a machine like that holding up very well though.
 
 I think Yanmar buying ASV is going to be a good thing, I've always said there are great things about them. Some other things on them always struck me as kind of light duty and not built to industry standards.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on July 23, 2022, 05:19:53 AM
I donít need to sell anybody on them. People in the mulching game know what they can do and how they hold up. I guarantee if Supertrak didnít think it would hold up they wouldnít waste the time and money doing it. Supertrak did the same thing with a CAT several years ago and offered it with steel tracks and rubber until CAT wouldnít let them get the frames. They were 140 hp and those older units still bring big money. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on July 26, 2022, 11:02:26 PM
The Supertrak ASV 190 has the same hydraulic flow cooling and hp as the wheeled version in the picture they offer. Same thing on the CAT wheel loader. They get the frame from CAT and build it up from the ground up.  Talked to the Supertrak boys today and it will be awhile. First five 190s are sold  
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/3BC71E30-0BB9-4AB1-8BF4-871FE42DA024.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1658890830)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on July 26, 2022, 11:17:25 PM
On a slightly different subject, what is the realistic limiting factor in climbing a hill with a CTL?  For me and my Kubota, it seems to be traction.  

I was mowing some pretty steep hills today, uphill, and when I would reach right at 28 degrees angle, as measured with my IPhone gradient app while mowing, my rubber tracks would slip and spin.  Unfortunately, I couldnít mow these particular hills downhill so couldnít just track from uphill to downhill, I had to climb them, and when I lost traction, I had to go backward to get off them.  

Is this about normal, track slippage on grass at about 30 degrees?  My nephew has tried to climb these same hills with his high end side by side, and all his four tires spin out, also. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on July 26, 2022, 11:28:53 PM
The Supertrak SK 140  CAT skid was a fantastic machine but the engine bay is not wide enough for a bigger motor. Guys have thousands of hours on those units and they still sell at a premium. It has like the ASV a closed loop system Supertrak does thatís full hydraulics to the head and are totally separate from the machine hydraulics. You can get on four different mulching sites and you just donít hear bad stuff about Supertrak machines. The bigger CAT excavators they do with a power pack are bad. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on July 26, 2022, 11:50:36 PM
Some skids do better than others on hills. Sounds like it wasnít being to heavy in the rear since you had the mower on with a little weight in front. Your expecting to much out of your machine Yellowhammer 😂
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on July 27, 2022, 12:06:31 AM
Yellowhammer you got me thinking about traction bars you can take on and off. There is a company in another country that makes some really good ones for the ASV and others I will try and find. Here is a company that makes them for your Kubota with some videos. They can be taken on and off. The guy that had a ASV in another country with traction bars that could be taken on and off was doing some crazy steep stuff. Here is the link for your Kubota traction bars.   https://www.pro-lynx.ca/ (https://www.pro-lynx.ca/).       

I just checked and some guys are running these on some ASV and they say they are rough riding but unstoppable and a little pricey. Gotta pay to play 😂
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/863CFB32-ECC0-4DF7-815E-71C028EAE8E7.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1658895402)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Ianab on July 27, 2022, 12:48:35 AM
There is a company in another country that makes some really good ones for the ASV and others I will try and find


TrackGrip?
https://www.trackgrip.com/product-range/

They are based 10 mins down the road from us here in NZ, but supply to the US and have a pretty wide range. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on July 27, 2022, 03:40:49 AM
That is the one 👍. Pretty interesting itís right down the road from you!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Ianab on July 27, 2022, 04:19:53 AM
Yeah, Eltham is a "dot on the map" sort of place. But a fair % of McD's beef and cheese comes from there. McDs like the leaner grass fed beef, or more specifically "retired" dairy cows. They won't ever make prime steak, but minced up they make good hamburger patties.

Carac (the family owned engineering company behind Trackgrip) is there. They have set themselves up with some high tech gear, plasma / laser cutters / CNC etc and make all sorts of specialised bits of kit.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on July 27, 2022, 08:37:41 AM
I think the mower weighs in at about 1800 lbs, it's definitely got some weight to it, and I could lay it down on the slope and feel the CTL unload its tracks and then I could raise it a few inches off the ground and reload the tracks.

Do these track grippers give enough traction to physically cause a endo style flip over?  

I didn't feel like it was going to flip over, but going uphill at 30į degrees made me feel like I was looking up at the sky.  It was much more uncomfortable than going downhill, because I can use the mower as a front mounted wheelie bar or brace.  I did have a couple times when one track started to spin and lose traction, and the whole machine quickly slipped started doing a 180 but it was easy to stop by putting the mower on the ground like a boat anchor, then I could wiggle back straight and continue either up or down.  The slipping tracks also kind of trench out the ground, and brings up bare dirt, which will increase erosion, so I didn't like that, either, especially on my dam face.  This slope is partially a hill and the side of our dam where the topography comes together.

As I was playing around on the slope, I started wondering what the tip over angle was, I thought I remembered it at 37į so felt I had some margin there.  I've tried to watch as many "flip over" videos I can on YouTube and it seems that they are all done on sandy soil, so when the machine rears up, it settles into the dirt, and the rear of the frame catches it.

So far on the farm, this is the second to the last unconquered hill I've tried with the CTL, all the others have been mowed.  I have one more I haven't tried yet, it's really short but long, a quarter mile embankment, and I haven't figured out the best way to do it yet.  It seems a natural for side tracking and mowing, but I understand that is pretty hard on CTL's?  All of these hills have been defeated with conventional wheeled machines, whether tractors with bush hogs, zero turn mowers, and even towed mowers behind 4 wheeler built for hills.  Any machine with 4 wheels just spins out and doesn't move.  However, all my hills and dams have been traversed with metal tracked dozers in the past.  To be fair, these hills are steep enough that they are physically hard to walk on, so they are pretty steep.

I do like the iPhone app that lets me measure the actual grade when I'm on it, as I can get a real measurement.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on July 27, 2022, 03:22:34 PM
I would think the traction bars would act like a steel track where you have the extra bite with the weight. You want to find out how it flips over? Go up the hill without the mower 😂. Yes be careful on side slopes with the potential of your track derailing 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on July 27, 2022, 03:32:24 PM
Here is a guy mulching with a 75ASV and should have went to the 120 ASV but instead sold his 75hp ASV and got a 100hp CAT 299. Now heís mad and selling his CAT and going back to ASV
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/96573C0B-0C23-431A-A973-381419F32649.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1658950175)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on July 27, 2022, 10:19:23 PM
My dealer said Kubota is coming out with a 120 hp machine.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on July 27, 2022, 10:30:22 PM
Good you are friends and getting treated right with your dealer. I assume the shop end of it is good as well 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on July 27, 2022, 10:36:27 PM
Once you had a taste of your big machine and got to see what it can do it would probably be hard to be without it
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on July 28, 2022, 08:09:17 AM
Yes, they are a third generation family owned dealership, and one of the leading Kubota/New Holland dealerships in the country.  One of the sons is on the board of directors of New Holland in Belgium. I've known the current president since 7th grade, and I've modeled some of our business after theirs.

They are professional and don't nickle and dime customers, and their shop, even though it has about a dozen bays, is eat off the floor clean, and they have a very fast turn around.  They don't play and they don't cheat.  They pay their mechanics and staff well, and I've known some for 20 years.  If you bring in a muddy tractor, they will steam wash it, no charge, before they even bring it into the shop.  They know things sometime break in the field, and it may come in as a ball of mud.  If there are little nuts and bolts missing, even cosmetic ones, they will simply replace them no charge, even on an old tractor or piece of equipment.  Basically, when it leaves, it is fixed and as good as they can make it.

In contrast, the local Deere dealer is the exact opposite, which is a shame.  The only reason they are in business is because of the Deere name.  Years ago, we walked into the Deere dealership in Carhart shorts, work boots and a T shirt, which is my standard "I work for living, I don't care what I look like, and you shouldn't either if you want to sell me something" clothes, and the Deere owner walked over and asked what I wanted to buy and then he said "You don't have enough money to buy one of my machines."  I just laughed in his face, said I have enough money to buy your whole dealership and fire you (I don't, but I like to see peoples faces when I say that :D) and said it was a shame because I had a hundred grand in my pocket and I was going down the road to spend it.  Then his face fell when he knew I was serious.  I absolutely hate places that judge people on their appearance or clothes, and that's one lesson I learned, which is to treat all customers with respect.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: WDH on July 29, 2022, 07:43:49 AM
"Hello, my name is Robert and I own and operate Hobby Hardwood and also sell John Deere equipment on the side."  :D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on July 29, 2022, 01:43:50 PM
Well said Robert. One of the richest people I knew dressed in and drove a old car. Dug through the dumpster when college kids threw stuff out when moving out. And lots of good stuff 😂. One of the guys at the rentals asked me who was this guy digging out of the dumpster and around it. I said the owner 😂. He was also very giving. Donated to many charities, rang the bell for Goodwill ,  Whatís impressive to me is people like that could buy anything they want! But are very saving with their self. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: OutlawB52 on July 30, 2022, 11:36:12 PM
Takeuchi LT10
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on August 04, 2022, 11:09:10 PM
Well, I finally found two things I donít like about the Kubota SVL97-2.  

The dad gum air conditioner is so cold it condenses the moisture out of the summer air onto the front windshield and I occasionally have to turn on my wipers so I can see out the front.  What a disaster!  Iím going to give Mr. Kubota a phone call on that.  

The speakers are terrible.  Does anybody have any suggestions for new ones?

Other than that, the Direct TV hookup works wonderful, the massaging seats are fine, and even the built in coffee maker are great.  The TV screen is a little small.  

The durn thing eats grease, though.  Anybody got a recommendation in a battery powered grease gun?

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: beenthere on August 05, 2022, 01:11:34 AM
Check this feature on the John Deere cabs as seen at minute 14:00 of this video. 

John Deere R series cab / Beer cooler option - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt5HOG8Z4wE)

Maybe Kubota needs to know that too. 

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on August 05, 2022, 05:18:26 AM
I have a Lincoln 14.4 cordless two speed and it works great

https://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-Lubrication-1444-14-4-Powerluber/dp/B000OCKHA2 (https://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-Lubrication-1444-14-4-Powerluber/dp/B000OCKHA2)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on August 05, 2022, 06:14:42 AM
I have a Lincoln also. Mine is getting close to 20 years old. I have had to buy new batteries a couple of times but they weren't to bad being the little ones.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on August 05, 2022, 06:40:18 AM
I have a Milwaukee 12 volt grease gun
I already have lots of 12 volt tools
I remember you have a dewalt pole saw , the dewalt is good as well.
They are all built much the same .
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: taylorsmissbeehaven on August 05, 2022, 07:27:01 AM
I had a similar experience at the (now under much better ownership) John Deere in my area. I had just flipped a house and planned to buy a tractor. Had been cutting 4 x 8 sheets of Hardi siding all day for an apartment complex and was covered in dust. Told the salesman I wanted to buy a tractor they had on the lot and a box blade. He looked me up and down and told me it would be more than I could afford. Not another word was said. I drove straight to the New Holland dealership and bought the best purchase I have ever made. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: WDH on August 05, 2022, 08:10:20 AM
Milwaukee.  

Better than sliced bread. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on August 22, 2022, 02:45:21 AM
This guy is a big mulcher/ tree service guy that has a few of these Skidsteer Ryan hot saw feller bunchers and he loves them.

https://youtu.be/kGtmpQFTw28
 (https://youtu.be/kGtmpQFTw28)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/4F46680B-1C98-400C-BF84-9E81DE775A70.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1661151350)
 (https://youtu.be/kGtmpQFTw28)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on August 22, 2022, 03:19:38 AM
If he doesnít save anything he probably is going to pick the piles up with a big excavator and feed into a big horizontal grinder.  Another guy I know will take his 735 TimberPros and cut then  feed right into a 1000hp horizontal grinder of the stuff he doesnít save 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: OH logger on August 23, 2022, 09:37:20 PM
I have the pro lynx track cleats. Wow what a difference they make. I only use them in winter. They really bite even on hard packed slick snow where without em you just spin 👎🏿
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on August 23, 2022, 10:34:17 PM
I'll have to look at them.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: enwinn on August 24, 2022, 09:09:30 PM
A bit different view of JCB Teleskid 3TS-8T lift capabilities:

Testimonial: JCB Teleskid 3TS-8T - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Qunpd50b7TM)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on August 25, 2022, 05:11:59 AM
I demoed one of those JCB track loaders about 5 years ago. I really liked the side entry and the teleboom but it didn't have any more lift capacity than my New Holland with tires. Maybe they have increased that.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Tom K on August 25, 2022, 07:01:12 AM
I believe JCB's largest track loader has a capacity around 3100 lbs. The teleskid is rated around 3700 lbs which I believe is the same as the Deere 333G
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on August 25, 2022, 08:12:56 AM
I also looked real hard at them, and talked to a dealer at length.  They have a lot of good things going for them.  However, lift capacity was an issue and the dealer said the rating was there for a reason.  He did say there was a very good warranty on the boom section, and it was "never a problem."

However, I got one snippet of information that changed my mind, and it was from a guy who recovered one from a rollover.  He said it he felt it was very difficult to right because the massive arm on one side made the whole vehicle heavy to that side.  He said as he was trying to roll it back over, it wanted to re roll to the heavy side.  It was this opinion that the single arm made it "unbalanced" and that eliminated it for me, as I wanted to use it on very steep slopes and so not being perfectly balanced would not be my preference.  

This is just conjecture and opinion from the one guy, I have not seen it anywhere else, but it seems to make sense.

I would like to know if JCB's are heavy to one side and if it can be felt by the people who own one?    
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on August 25, 2022, 11:08:40 AM
Now YH, take it from someone that ran asphalt rollers in a former life- some of the older machines were heavy to one side like that, and you could use it to your advantage. Sometimes you would run the light side oriented one way, so the drums wouldn't leave a mark on that side. You could've had the heavy side of that JBC on the high side on slopes and been sidehilling like nobody's business😁

 I got out of more than one pickle in a forwarder swinging a grapple of wood out to the high side, or opposite to the soft side in swamps. Having 1500 plus pounds extended 25' to the side does wonders for balance😊
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on August 25, 2022, 09:46:56 PM
Well, that never occurred to me.  Good tip.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on August 25, 2022, 10:11:30 PM
Or it may have been that all of that weight off to one side, was so high up that it made you unstable either way🤷‍♂️😊
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on August 26, 2022, 01:15:23 PM
I believe JCB's largest track loader has a capacity around 3100 lbs. The teleskid is rated around 3700 lbs which I believe is the same as the Deere 333G


I don't know about what the JCB is rated for. I have the 333G JD and it will lift twice what the JCB that I demoed would. On another note I think the tipping load for the 333G is 10570 lbs. It won't do that in something like a pallet of lumber. I have a 10,000 pound fork lift that will lift more than the 333G. There is a new one coming out from Case/New Holland that I heard is bigger and stronger. Don't know any details on it though.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: enwinn on August 26, 2022, 03:07:59 PM
Actually, I think I like the Mecalac 6MCR even better.

Mecalac 6MCR lifting 2.5t Concrete Tank - YouTube (https://youtu.be/HhiLVojItvw)

He gets a bit tippy but that is impressive for a 5,000 pound load. Freaking expensive though!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: enwinn on August 26, 2022, 03:14:30 PM
This comparison of the Mecalac 8MCR to the Hitachi ZAXIS 85 USB "standard" excavator gives a good overview of how these MCRs are a bit different.

Mecalac Skid excavator Vs Standard Excavator - YouTube (https://youtu.be/_MH8AB4fOLI)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: enwinn on August 26, 2022, 10:37:32 PM
Oh boy. I'm in love. Somebody give me a boat load of money please.  ;D

The custom log trailer in this demo can be adjusted to carry up to 24' long logs.

Mecalac 8MCR Demo - Royal Cornwall Show 2022 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/yL3yZAUb3rc)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on August 26, 2022, 10:49:09 PM
Yep! Itís easy for people to talk trash when they donít really know much about the machine 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on August 26, 2022, 10:51:59 PM
Oh boy. I'm in love. Somebody give me a boat load of money please.  ;D

The custom log trailer in this demo can be adjusted to carry up to 24' long logs.

Mecalac 8MCR Demo - Royal Cornwall Show 2022 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/yL3yZAUb3rc)
Cool log trailer! Thanks for posting the recent video! 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on August 27, 2022, 12:12:54 AM
Deere is supposed to put a 120hp in the new 335. And Kubota supposedly. Maybe true br>(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/A4A4F7E9-9CCF-4E9F-9733-87095CCA6950.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1661573410)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: thecfarm on August 31, 2022, 08:44:08 PM
Me too, I'll take a boat load too!!!!  :D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on August 31, 2022, 09:34:49 PM
I heard the same thing, Kubota is coming out with a 120Hp.  I'd buy one...
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on September 19, 2022, 12:34:21 PM
I heard the same thing, Kubota is coming out with a 120Hp.  I'd buy one...
I've heard that here (I think by you) and I believe on another forum. My dealership is...
"I know nothing" 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on September 19, 2022, 12:44:16 PM
They are trying to compete against ASV as well as the other brands coming out with the bigger machines.  Got to keep up, that sort of thing.  

What is interesting is that they sell many more of the small frame CTL's, the 10,000 lb size, simply because they can be trailered on a conventional 14K trailer, instead of a gooseneck.  So they are much more attractive to rental and construction companies because they can be trailered by anyone, not a DOT or CDL driver.

I also understand that's the same thing with the mini excavators.  The number one selling Kubota mini is the KX40, which is a 10K lb machine.

I saw this little guy the other day, 10hp, and will fit inside a building doorway.  The dealer says he sells a lot of them.  I told my wife I'd get her one for emptying the cat litter box.  Two or three scoops and it would be empty, unless the cat had a big meal, then got may take 4 scoops. :D :D.



 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/IMG_4481.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1663605790)
  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Old Greenhorn on September 19, 2022, 01:24:56 PM
My friend Bill has the bobcat version of that little guy. Everybody laughed when he got it (for a song), but you can haul that thing behind a car on a small trailer. His is getting used all over the dang place, because it is great for opening and replacing septic lines in back yards without ripping up the grass. Very handy for all those small repair jobs. Of course he has all the bigger ones too, but this is so handy to move and keeps his expenses way down on small jobs.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Tom King on September 19, 2022, 02:35:26 PM
I didn't know that little thing existed.  I have the perfect job for one coming up.  Thanks for posting!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: newoodguy78 on September 19, 2022, 08:26:06 PM
My BIL had a komatsu that size. He did very well putting in propane lines and digging up tanks. Like OG said the low impact it left on finished lawns and back yards made people seek him out. Everyone laughed at him for having it. Didnít bother him he was the one making the money. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on September 20, 2022, 07:13:56 AM
I'll take a shovel with a seat over one without anyday. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on September 20, 2022, 07:26:49 AM
All the little mini excavators thatís what they are known for and do very well. DigÖ
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: PoginyHill on September 20, 2022, 07:46:28 AM
What is interesting is that they sell many more of the small frame CTL's, the 10,000 lb size, simply because they can be trailered on a conventional 14K trailer, instead of a gooseneck.  So they are much more attractive to rental and construction companies because they can be trailered by anyone, not a DOT or CDL driver.

Guess I need to edumacationing....I thought a CDL is required to trailer anything over 10k.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Tom K on September 20, 2022, 02:36:26 PM
No, not necessarily. Your GCWR still needs to be over 26k. The wording is somewhat deceiving. This is how it was explained to me. It's the combination over 26k + trailer over 10k.

A truck with a GVW of 11k (modern 3/4 ton) with a 14k GVW trailer would not need a CDL since the GCWR is 25k

A truck with a GVW of 13k (modern 1 ton dually) with the same 14k GVW trailer would have a GCWR of 27k and would require a CDL. You would need a trailer under 13k GVW to be under CDL requirements. 

Pretty much any dual tandem trailer behind a newer 3/4 ton will put you over the CDL requirements. Obviously what you can and can't haul with that setup is usually up for debate since some see the truck manufacturers ratings as gospel and other see them as a suggestion.

I believe my '07 has a GVW of 9900, so I could have a 15,990 GVW trailer and my GVWR would be 25,890 so I would be under the CDL requirement. With a 7,000 truck weight and 4,800 lb trailer weight I could technically haul 11,800 lb and be "legal" CDL wise.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: bigblockyeti on September 20, 2022, 03:52:28 PM
It's also important to not muddy the waters by confusing GCW and GCWR as well as GVW and GVWR.  One is a measurement, one is a limit.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on September 20, 2022, 06:16:49 PM
So with a standard 14K non gooseneck trailer, as long as the trailer doesn't weigh more than 4,000 lbs which is what most rental places use, then a 10,000 lb Class skid steer, mini excavator or CTL will not overload it.  Also, since many 3/4 ton trucks are have a GVWR of 12,000 lbs or less, then the trailer can be hooked to it and magically the numerous add up to exactly 26,000 lbs or less and the guy renting the trailer and machine can drive away legal. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: KenMac on September 20, 2022, 09:54:30 PM
In Alabama if you use the trailer for personal use the weight rating of the trailer is not considered by law enforcement. My 20k gooseneck is perfectly legal behind my SRW Dodge 3500 with 12k weight rating. All of this is according to the nice folks at the St. Clair county Probate Judge's office. I made certain that was the case before buying the trailer. Braking is so much better with tandem dual axles. I am still careful to not overload the truck too badly. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on September 20, 2022, 10:50:56 PM
I believe that is also true of farm equipment, the stickered weight rating is ignored, only the actual scale weight is used, and with farm equipment, there is a 10% margin.

However, (I only pull commercial so not sure of private laws) I believe that if the actual loaded weight of the combination is over 26,000 lbs, even for a private hauler, then that is a violation.  According to the Alabama DOT the only vehicles not required to have a CDL if even for private exceeding 26,000 lbs are military, farmers (as discussed), township or government workers, and lastly, private RV owners.

For rental equipment, at least to the rental guys I talk to, since the property is leased or rented and is not the private property of the renter, (hauler) and money has changed hands, then it is a commercial load, and the commercial exemption is not waived and the load must scale under 26,000 lbs to not require a CDL.  I think it gets a little fuzzy there, because I donít think a trooper would light up an average Joe hauling a 14,000 rented tract loader and  trailer behind his dually, but I do think they would hammer a commercial construction company dually pick up truck hauling the same load if the stickered weight ratings were exceeded.

I agree, a tandem dually gooseneck handles much better than a tandem single goose.

Unfortunately for me, my trucks are all used for hauling logs or lumber so require commercial insurance and therefore commercial plates, and I must abide by commercial or farm tag laws.  

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Tom K on September 21, 2022, 06:13:59 AM
Well, not to muddy the waters again, but I think it depends. The CDL requirements are Federal DOT regs, and the states can have their own rules. The Fed's only look at ratings, not actual loads or type of use. There are situations were you may comply with state reg's but not Federal.

This is all going by memory from years ago when I took my test. I don't have a dog in this fight as I have my class A, as long as I stay under 80k I have no worries.

Anything over a 5 ton track loader or mini starts to get tricky to haul with a 14k trailer, and also hard to stay out of CDL territory. Some people don't realize mini's are rated in metric "tons" so a 5 ton unit scales around 11,000-11,500, plus a thumb and a couple buckets and your pushing 12,500 pretty easy. 

To get back on topic, the same thing goes for track/skid loaders. I'm guessing the 100hp Kubota would weight 12k minimum. Add a bucket or grapple and there's no way your going to get that on a 14k trailer and be "legal"
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on September 21, 2022, 07:14:12 AM
It almost seems as "they" are perfectly happy with the fuzziness of the laws, particularly state to state. Makes me wonder about it being more of a revenue thing above all but the very worst safety issues.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on September 21, 2022, 08:04:52 AM
I agree, that's why the "homeowner" rental agencies, at least around here, won't even buy the bigger machines so they don't have to worry about the hauling issues.  They will top out with the 75 HP, small frame skid steers, and mini excavators, etc.  That's one reason I had to buy my 100 hp CTL kind of blind, there is a rental agency not more than a few miles down the road and I called to ask to rent one to try it out.  They said "it was too heavy" and they didn't even carry them, but they had a fleet of the smaller frame Kubota units.  Same thing with the minis, the largest they carry is the KX40 series, which is way too small for my needs.

I've been on the "list" for a new KX57, but it takes months, I think I'm now only five down on the list.  The KX57 excavator (12,000 lb class) list which is $85K, but I don't want to pay for the much larger KX80 (20,000 lb class) machine, which is about $40K more.  Lots more machine but lots more money.  I remember back in the day, there was so many machines available I could call, buy one, and have it delivered the next day.  Those days are gone....wait, wait, wait, wait for them to come to the dealer.

An interesting point, I sat in both the older model KX80-4 and the newer model KX57-5 and the smaller unit had an upgraded and bigger cab, and noticeably more foot space and such.  So from creature comfort, the smaller excavator had more room inside than the bigger one....       
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on September 21, 2022, 12:36:11 PM
Definitely get hydraulic quick coupler and a thumb. Tooth bucket and ditch cleaning bucket. Thatís basically a flat wider bucket. That little 57 will be pretty handy! 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Tom King on September 21, 2022, 12:41:09 PM
I have a friend here who has a 65 ton lowboy with Farm Use tags on it.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on September 23, 2022, 08:46:42 AM
Sucks! He really treated me great!! My dealer still isnít a dealer because of a new owner transition. So checking around!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/44E9E8C9-AF83-4AA6-BC2A-040D2FE6F42C.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1663936976)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/33789918-C519-4836-B936-77295EB4AFAA.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1663936925)
 Thinking about getting into a new 135. Been doing some checking and between supply chain issues and used 120 demand I wouldnít be far off getting into a new one. New 135 Forestry are 145k and my 120 is 115 to 125k without winch Iím keeping to put on new one but need a few different hydraulic lines and probably a few extras. Dealers are in the drivers seat right now on their high horse wanting to suck every dime from you because of demand 😂. No way Iíll have them sell my machine at 120k and they get 6% and I pay retail of 145k on new one. I doubt they will put the winch changeover for nothing. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: PoginyHill on September 23, 2022, 09:46:41 AM
Wait a few months. Demand will plummet and dealers will be offering deals again.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on September 23, 2022, 09:53:28 AM
Yeah I'm thinking a few months if patience could pay big dividends 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on September 24, 2022, 04:56:47 PM
Wait a few months. Demand will plummet and dealers will be offering deals again.
This is what I'm counting on also although I think it's a little farther away. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on September 24, 2022, 05:13:56 PM
They better enjoy it! All these cocky dealers and salesman are going to be on their knees one of these days then we will be the boys on the high horse!!!!!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on September 24, 2022, 07:24:04 PM
It's going to get interesting. I've been predicting this same thing for a few years. It hasn't happened yet.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on September 24, 2022, 10:07:51 PM
I agree, it's got to happen, but when?  I think it will be a many, many months, at least.  All the commercial guys need to refresh and rebuy as soon their equipment hits an hour mark and will pay whatever it takes to make sure what equipment they have is new and reliable.  That's before the private people even get a shot at the list.  So at least around here, there is always a pretty long waiting list.  I just got off the waiting list for a pickup truck, a commercial zero turn mower, and a CTL, and now am back on the waiting list for an excavator and another pickup.  The only thing that is different is that the waiting list has grown LONGER the second time around.  What was 3 months is now 6 to 8.  If you need something next year, order it now and you may get it.  I may get my pickup truck next summer.

Case in point, according to my Ford dealer, on one of the Ford 150 packages (I'm not sure which), Ford filled the entire 2023 production package allocation in one week.  One week, and they closed the order window for the year for that build.

The 2023 Ford Superduty window open mid October, and the same dealer said I need to have my order set and ready to go the day that it opens, because days of hesitation may cost months of backlog time.  I've priced used Super Duty's and the low mileage or new cost much more than new.  A 2022 Platinum dually diesel has a list for $88K and there was one here in town that was for sale and gone in less than a week that sold for $116K.  Same truck, same year, sold for 28K more than list because it was in stock. 

Things are crazy....
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: bigblockyeti on September 24, 2022, 10:19:15 PM
I've got a buddy that works for Freighliner chassis and they couldn't be happier right now.  Steel is down over 32% in the last year and orders are still backed way up.  They've retained what labor they need but aren't willing to pay the going rate + new inflation.  The result is fewer people saving the company money and cheaper materials, also saving the company money.  It's absolutely not a commodity issue any more, it's fully transitioned into greed and there's no shortage of customers so there's no need to alter protocol.  The Fed needs to quit bumping rates by fractions of a point and hit it hard with 2-3 at a time.  I need to buy CD's at over 8% sooner than later.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on September 24, 2022, 10:20:05 PM
Yes, but the other side of that is the number of foreclosures pending on recreational equipment, I'm told. Up here, the big ice house, "Ice Castles" have became a HUGE industry in the last 10 years. They are in essence, an RV trailer that the axles lift and they sit right down on the ice. They have everything that the nice new 5th wheel or pull behind campers do, plus holes you can open through the floor to fish through the ice. There are literal cities of them up here on the lakes in the winter, and people will use them for campers in the summer, too. They probably have an average retail in the area of $30-$50k I would imagine (plus the new diesel pickup to pull it). Anyhow I'm told the amount of those that are defaulting is through the roof, lots of car loans and such too. So a lot of those people that have those new Ford pickups on order might not really have the money, at least not if there's a hiccup in the economy.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on September 25, 2022, 07:11:02 AM
I know around here there seems to be a lot of folks going hunting or fishing that pull out on a Thursday morning. Get back the next week on Tuesday, then leave again on the next Thursday. I'm working like a rented mule wondering what they did on Wednesday to be able to take the rest of the week off. They do it two or three weeks a month. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on September 25, 2022, 08:53:19 AM
In my mind, the first sign that the prices are going down will be when there starts to be commercial inventory at the dealerships, and I don't think that is happening anytime soon.

I still remember when I was in the Kubota dealership buying the Kubota zero turn this winter.  I was kind of haggling on price with no success and this guy walks in, holds his open hand up with 5 fingers in the air, points to my guy, and says call me when they come in and walks out.  That quick.  I ask what the heck happened and that fast he ordered 5 of the exact same mower I was haggling on price on.  Price was not an issue, $100 grand of mowers ordered with the wave of a hand.  

  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on September 25, 2022, 12:31:02 PM
I dropped in my 'bota dealer about another issue, got to talking about the 97slv's and the mystery 120 hp secret machine. 
They're about a 9 location dealership and they have over 50 97's on order! 
I'm hoping to find a (very) low hour machine that's just not being utilized by a dirt outfit. 
Right now any mulching will be for TSI work on my ground. 
Got in bed with the USDA farm bureau/NRCS for some of those projects, tsi and habitat/food plots etc. so brand spanking new is hard to justify for me. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: PoginyHill on September 26, 2022, 07:38:58 AM
Wait a few months. Demand will plummet and dealers will be offering deals again.
This is what I'm counting on also although I think it's a little farther away.
Agree. The longer we go, the more the playing field will shift in favor of buyers. But the ball has started to roll. Mortgage rates are 2X a year ago and the Fed won't stop raising rates until unemployment gets higher (what they term the "employment picture softening"). Most believe a recession is in the cards (beyond the 2 quarters of negative GDP we've already seen), the question is how long and how deep. So, yes, the longer we wait, the easier it'll be to buy stuff - assuming we still have the money to spend.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on September 28, 2022, 12:09:54 PM
Said I would get it. My friend that sold two Kubota/ ASV dealerships personally had a Kubota skid and this head. They were going to use it on some other projects and never did. About 8 to 15 hrs. on both units. My buddy thatís a salesman that stayed with the new owner gave me a price and said to call Mark. I did. And letís just say on a 42k head I asked and he said yes for me. A incredible price.  
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/D0B37B09-C6DA-493B-89E9-85F9A1746CC0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1664381203)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on September 28, 2022, 01:08:28 PM
That is sweet.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on October 02, 2022, 10:27:43 PM
The Rage disc mulcher has some unique features. From a few guys I talked to they are pretty impressed.  What many people donít realize with a disc mulcher is you mulch trees and the big ones you can cut down with the disc then put the grapples on or use excavator and put in piles to burn or to the mill. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hBmzZAgPCqM (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hBmzZAgPCqM)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Bruno of NH on October 03, 2022, 04:30:46 PM
I know around here there seems to be a lot of folks going hunting or fishing that pull out on a Thursday morning. Get back the next week on Tuesday, then leave again on the next Thursday. I'm working like a rented mule wondering what they did on Wednesday to be able to take the rest of the week off. They do it two or three weeks a month.
I'm with you on this
I'm missing something 
I got to leave the mill this past Saturday for 2 hours my phone blew up.
Won't do that again
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 07, 2022, 08:17:50 PM
Roads always need to be fixed and this looks to be the ticket! In the woods, field washouts to open driveways. After talking with Rick the owner. They have been making the units for three generations. Had a patent on the unit and they are used all over by government agencies to you name it. With the rippers the hardest concrete clay pack isnít a problem. This is the three blade power angle unit and for extra cutting a serrated blade can be put on.  https://www.grademax.net/skid-max (https://www.grademax.net/skid-max)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/1DB80AF8-8CE5-43D4-B015-BAE40CADD29A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1670462129)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/6CE8C076-BB85-4F01-9B1C-C0AC17CBD8AD.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1670462125)
  
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/47930D3C-92EA-4084-82E8-C53BBED3945E.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1670462387)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on December 07, 2022, 08:21:22 PM
Looks sweet.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 07, 2022, 08:26:42 PM
They also make the units for or with three point and have a down pressure cylinder they offer for use with tractor 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on December 08, 2022, 05:06:45 AM
I have one for my tractor. It doesn't have a cylinder on it but I can lengthen one of my lift arms and it does awesome for putting crown in a driveway.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 08, 2022, 06:15:46 AM
Good to know and glad to hear Jake! Iím deciding on what size Iím going to get. Iím probably going with the 6í one so I can do some trails in the woods 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 08, 2022, 06:26:54 AM
I asked Rick if this unit can handle really hard pack clay and rock thatís like concrete and he said absolutely. I came across several videos but not the one I was 👀 for. Then I found one of a guy down in Texas on a nasty hard pack washed out road that had all sizes of rock ( not crushed rock) and he absolutely worked that unit and really made it back to a road. I was impressed! 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on December 08, 2022, 07:06:10 AM
Here is a video of me using mine. Please keep in mind that I'm not the greatest at making these videos.

How I grade my driveway. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/vgOPsnwYPcg)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: boonesyard on December 08, 2022, 10:05:14 AM
ABI attachments also makes a commercial grade grading attachment for skid steers, SR3, and a 3pt hitch mount for tractors, TR3. I own the commercial grade TR3 and can't say enough good things about it. I've owned it for 4 years and have used and abused it in all types of applications. It's bullet proof, and simple to set up once you get the hang of it. If used on a 3pt hitch, I highly recommend a hydraulic center link on the tractor.   
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on December 08, 2022, 07:35:20 PM
This type of grader is the answer for dirt/gravel roads.👍
I have one (roadrunner blade)
and this one I built 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/25148/20220911_092811.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1670545681)
They behave differently being pulled or pushed and if you're considering one and have a tractor and a big/heavy SS or CTL, get the option.
It grades alot more independently from the machine on the 3pt, and digs hard ground better with the down pressure of a SS.
Very short learning curve for great results.
And I'll 2nd or 3rd the hyd. top link for tractor use.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 08, 2022, 08:47:49 PM
Very nice! I did see the Road runner has a optional up and down cylinder on each side or a manual adjustment for the blade. I need to ask Rick or maybe somebody else knows on the skid max the hydraulic or manual adjust is just forward and back on the blade angle from the one side and no up or down on blade. Iím assuming with that way to crown you are pulling the material to the side and the runners are going to want to ride up on the material to get the crown
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on December 09, 2022, 07:17:46 AM
If you  watch my video you'll see that most of the material is spilling over the bars. Mine are angled so the material is feed to the left side of the tractor, this is why I lower the lift arm on the right side.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on December 09, 2022, 07:28:05 AM
So are you guys saying the 3 point tractor version is better or the skid steer version?  I have a local place that has both.

Those big advantage of this is that if can crown the road vs using a 4 way bucket or landscape box?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on December 09, 2022, 07:33:42 AM
The biggest advantage to me over a box blade is that it brings my crusher run rocks back to the surface and redeposits it with in a few feet from where it was dug up. I can put crown in the road with my box blade but it won't let me bring the rock back to the surface. When you get it loaded you are just dragging dirt and rocks around.  Can't say which one is better as I have only ever had the one for my tractor. However now y'all have me wanting one for my skidsteer.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on December 09, 2022, 08:04:32 AM
I wish you guys would hurry up and get one so I could see if if works good enough for me to buy one. :D :D
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Magicman on December 09, 2022, 08:12:28 AM
Plus you need to ger-r-done with this year's $$$.  I am also doing some innovative spending.  ;D 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on December 09, 2022, 11:06:00 AM
I wish you guys would hurry up and get one so I could see if if works good enough for me to buy one. :D :D
For your roads, hitch it to your NH, for shaving a grade down at that project you had in YouTube, put it on your kubota. 👍
It's pretty simple to add a 3pt to the front of any of these, at least much simpler than adding the SS mounting if they don't have one handy on their lot.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: scsmith42 on December 09, 2022, 11:40:21 AM
IMO pull type (tractor) is easier to use than push type (skid steer).  I have an Argi-tek driveway scraper that I like a lot (pic below), but the style used by Jake and 711AC would be my first choice for constructing a road or severe maintenance.  The driveway scraper shines for regular, light maintenance.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13296/Agritek_driveway_scraper.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1467153669)
 



Box blades are not as ideal for construction or maintenance because they do not distribute the material from side to side the way that the angle and driveway scraper style do.

YMMV.

Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Andries on December 09, 2022, 12:29:29 PM
This was an impulse buy for me - and it turned out good.
Peavey Mart (our version of TSC) was blowing this out at 50% off and I couldn't say no.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19307/grader_blade.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1670605405)
Its 72" wide and is light duty, cat. I, but it does what its designed to do. Most of us have gravel roads and/or parking gravelled areas. As Jake has mentioned, this attachment brings the fines in the gravel back up.
.
Hereís what seems to work around here: A box blade is for building the road, a back blade is good for ditch edging or light snow, but the grader blade is the perfect 'one trick pony' for maintaining the road - which is what has to happen on an ongoing basis, right? In other words, it'll get a lot of use.
.
We have about five km. of hilly, crushed granite topped bush roads to maintain. Rain wash out and frost heaving are the biggest degrades to those roads, and sometimes I need to break up hard packed gravel. the grapple on the front, with it's rock teeth engaged, and the grader blade on the back make for a great roadwork setup.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19307/grapple.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1670605424)
The Ford is only 65hp, but it weighs about 12,000 lbs. It's not a green tractor, it's yellow, and it's designed for construction. In second from low gear and 4wd engaged, it has to work hard to get up a steep hill with the grader blade loaded with gravel.
The roads are in great shape, and its easy to do.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Peter Drouin on December 09, 2022, 09:13:48 PM
Jake, I love all the flat open land you have there.
Here, not so much.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 09, 2022, 09:51:36 PM
Here is a video of me using mine. Please keep in mind that I'm not the greatest at making these videos.

How I grade my driveway. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/vgOPsnwYPcg)
Great video Jake! Thanks for taking the time to show us how it works and your big green toy! Nice!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 09, 2022, 10:11:33 PM
I wish you guys would hurry up and get one so I could see if if works good enough for me to buy one. :D :D
For your roads, hitch it to your NH, for shaving a grade down at that project you had in YouTube, put it on your kubota. 👍
It's pretty simple to add a 3pt to the front of any of these, at least much simpler than adding the SS mounting if they don't have one handy on their lot.
You can get it with SS mounts and 3 pt also. Here is a picture 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 09, 2022, 10:12:42 PM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/CD43C7EE-D423-4574-90FA-A01E6163C537.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1670641940)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on December 10, 2022, 11:48:06 AM
I would highly recommend this double hitch if you have both machines. Even a tractor with a SSQA on it will fit, although the forces that it can generate imho are abusive for a farm tractor loader.
Just yesterday sections of my road turned to *stuff after the frost came out and I wanted to dress it up before it freezes for the winter. On the SS I was able to somewhat get it "repaired" a little. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 10, 2022, 07:58:27 PM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/FDEF9AEB-389B-4D3F-86FA-D578DB41B90C.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1670720288)
 Here is a picture that was sent to me of a 84Ē on a SS
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on December 10, 2022, 08:15:51 PM
How well do those rippers dig in being that far out in front of the machine? You can't get much force on them out that far.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 10, 2022, 09:16:54 PM
Good question. I asked how deep they go in the ground and I thought he said 4 1/2 inches when they are all the way down. I asked if they could be put in backwards and he said yes but they are meant to be run forward. Iím thinking of using it for more than grading is why I was asking 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 11, 2022, 01:52:24 AM
ABI attachments also makes a commercial grade grading attachment for skid steers, SR3, and a 3pt hitch mount for tractors, TR3. I own the commercial grade TR3 and can't say enough good things about it. I've owned it for 4 years and have used and abused it in all types of applications. It's bullet proof, and simple to set up once you get the hang of it. If used on a 3pt hitch, I highly recommend a hydraulic center link on the tractor.  
The SR3 and TR3 look very interesting! I see Dirt Monkey is using one of the units from the company site. Sounds like on the SS that once guys get use to it that they love it. I like the hydraulic rippers! 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 11, 2022, 02:47:01 AM
Interesting we are all looking at the road grading aspect from various units. Dirt Monkey did a current one on the Roadrunner dual hydraulic unit I mentioned with the wheel kit that goes on the SS and can be taken off to do three point for tractor. Interesting and easy to understand how to get the crown when the hydraulic cylinders go up and down below the runners on each side to cut. Here is the video. Heís doing the roads on his place because his daughter that was in Hawaii that was a vegan must of had enough of that life and come to her senses and is coming back home to live off the land and hunt animals off the land to eat! He did say we will see how that goes 😂. Jake seems to be able to get a crown just fine without the hydraulics  of the blade. I like that!  

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ma83-PPh9Q0 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ma83-PPh9Q0)

Update on price on the unit! The 84Ē model is 8,900 and the optional wheel kit is 2,950. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on December 11, 2022, 08:35:33 AM
That price is way too much for me, for what it is. 

When I was working on a grading crew, in the fall we kept a leaf blower with us to clear the leaves off the driveway so you don't end up with a bunch of gravel balled up with leaves. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Andries on December 11, 2022, 11:40:16 AM
If I had to buy another grader blade it would be this one:
https://www.everythingattachments.com/Land-Leveler-Land-Plane-With-Scarifier-Rippers-p/eta-land-leveler-ws-2.htm (https://www.everythingattachments.com/Land-Leveler-Land-Plane-With-Scarifier-Rippers-p/eta-land-leveler-ws-2.htm)
Ted, the company owner, goes through the design details of their grader/land plane. Thereís a bunch of photos and videos on their site, and a video which focuses on the notable improvements. Thereís even a video of him abusing their attachments, trying to break or twist up something. Heís a wild man on a tractor and itís destructive testing at its worst. 🫣
The most important change, is not obvious unless someone has spent a few hours pulling one of these attachments. The diagonal distance between the front lower cross member (with scarifiers mounted behind, not through 👍) and the upper front member has to be larger enough to allow a ďwaveĒ of aggregate to pass underneath. My small and light Cat I unit holds approx. 3/4 cu. yard of aggregate when working at capacity. Thatís a 12Ē wave of gravel thatís being worked and rolled out behind you. Especially if youíre working in an area of potholes, where you have to dig deep enough to touch the bottom of the Ďpotsí. My lighter grader gets blocked up there when I work the tractor hard - the grader isnít designed to handle it.
Ted mentions that distance or gap in his videos, theyíre  on it. 😉
Also, there seems to be three classes of these graders.
- Commercial, hydraulic, super hefty and a price tag to match. Cat II or III, around 1500 lbs or more. Construction crew proof.
- Weekender, Cat 0 and for a one gravel driveway owner. Needs tlc  and does the job. 400 lbs and low sides.
- Farm and Ranch, Cat II, under $3000 USD, ~ 750 lbs, high sided and (not their first edition) mature design.
As usual, the world offers choices, the trick is to pick the right one!
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on December 11, 2022, 12:30:21 PM
The one thing the would drive me nuts with these grading boxes is the way they allow material to spill over the top of the blades and out the back. Maybe a minor annoyance, but having ran graders a lot I used to directing the material where I want it. But, just the simple addition of a higher back on the second blade would allow them to carry material without spilling it.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Andries on December 11, 2022, 01:10:30 PM
Yeah, BB, this is a different concept.
The idea is to get a ďlift, mix and levelĒ action going. Youíre  describing a box blade, or a back blade, where you want to relocate the gravel to build the road. . . Or a motor grader, for seriously heavy moving of material.
.
The land plane/road grader for ss or 3pt hitch is designed to maintain a crown or dress out washboard areas.
 These attachments arenít made to relocate the gravel.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on December 11, 2022, 01:30:58 PM
What I'm getting at, is I would prefer this type had a taller back blade, so it could do both.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Andries on December 11, 2022, 01:56:58 PM
Yep, theyíre made by Roadrunner iirc.
Thereís a tailgate on hinges that can be dropped down at the very back end of the side sliders, to do what you described. 
I wasnít trying to be snarky on that last posting, just informational. Itís a fine line I realize. 👍
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on December 11, 2022, 02:51:31 PM
It was taken as informational, not snarky😊 With a drop down tailgate I could quit my whining. Except then my skid steer might be too wimpy to push it🤦‍♂️😂
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Andries on December 11, 2022, 03:58:54 PM
One of the Ponsee machines would handle it, no? 😉
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on December 11, 2022, 04:36:36 PM
 Don't think that I never thought about it😁  The lowboy guy said Ponsse should install me a six way blade for all of the dozer work I did with the forwarder😊 A lot of times, it was use what you had or a dozer had to be hauled back out, and a considerable distance usually. 

 With creative use of the grapple, and the little tiny forwarder blade, you could actually do passable work.

 For instance, one of our dozer guys had a bad habit of making his truck turn arounds basin shaped. That's fine until you got a little rain, now it's a big puddle and the trucks can't use it, and I don't have a dozer. With patience, a light touch and a half of load of wood on, a BuffaloKing can do a great job of rolling stumps out of the new turn around area. Then I would blade the topsoil off,and finally use the grapple to dig along the outside radius of the turnaround. That dirt was deposited where the inside wheels would ride up on it. Between the ditch you dug on the low side and the dirt you placed on the high side, you know had the proper crown on the turnaround for your blade to follow. Backdrag it all with the float on the blade, and the wha-laa! You have a turn around where the truck drivers are saying, "you make better turn arounds with the forwarder than he does with the dozer!" I'd just say, "awe, shucks"😁
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stavebuyer on December 11, 2022, 06:42:55 PM
I had a contractor that thought nothing of building his water-bars with a Barko wheeled feller buncher head. The skidders were always behind. He did all of the felling, cutting up and loading himself. Any other crew I stopped to check in on would more or less shut down when I showed up. On his landing you visited after hours or at your own peril. The forest service guys would show up and tell him it was too wet to work, he would smile and agree. As soon as they were out-of-sight he was hammering wood. Butchered some nice trees but man if the mill needed logs, he was the man. 10 loads a day with him and two skidder men.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 12, 2022, 03:29:29 AM
Well with all the models out there and from researching and hearing feedback without actually running one of the units we have been discussing and factoring in price of the Skid max pro hydraulic vs all others and seeing these being shipped all over the country to individuals to businesses tells me they must be a pretty good value. For a  MaxPro unit with power angle, ripper teeth , three blade and color choice shipped to my door for less than 4,500 bucks is a pretty good deal for what you get that would be tough to beat !!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/FFC6301C-F344-4419-889F-5C57FC03E85E.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1670833662)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: farmfromkansas on December 24, 2022, 11:33:13 AM
Anyone know the best attachment to pick rocks out of dirt?  The railroad used to go through my farm, had the hump leveled out and there was rock mixed into the dirt, so now I have a rocky strip through he middle of my fields.  Been looking at landscape rakes, screeners etc, would like to buy the right tool for the job.  Lots of railroad ballast, some tiny 1/4", most is larger regular ballast.  Some of the  stuff is big enough that the combine picks it up when cutting soybeans.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: mike dee on December 24, 2022, 11:53:34 AM
A skeleton bucket is cheap, I don't know about best. There are automatic rock pickers that probably do a better job but $$$$
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: beenthere on December 24, 2022, 11:57:13 AM
Look into a Harley Rake (or similar) for your skid steer. Can "process" the soil and windrow the rocks for scooping up with the bucket. Being the path of rocks follows a pretty straight line, seems this would be a good choice for you.

Or there are buckets with teeth similar to manure buckets that "strain" the rocks of certain sizes. 
Removing Rocks with a Harley Rake to Prep for a Sod Install - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPyohQ8SHHg)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on December 24, 2022, 02:54:05 PM
 I don't know how you would get the small rocks out other than an actual screen. There are smaller ones made that are to be used with a skid loader, backhoe or small front end loader. Maybe a rental center would have one?

 I have a skeleton rock bucket I just got last fall. I haven't used it much for rock yet, I got it for loading firewood out of piles. It works great for that, as dirt and bark falls through the slats. But I think it has a 3" spacing, so it would only get larger rocks.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 24, 2022, 05:45:37 PM
Very simple answer a rock bucket. The Harley rakes is really meant for pulverizing soil. They look good in videos with soft soil. Thatís where the game ends. Yes! Iíve owned one. On the rock buckets they make various floors with different spacing

https://www.virnigmfg.com/product/heavy-duty-skeleton-rock-bucket/ (https://www.virnigmfg.com/product/heavy-duty-skeleton-rock-bucket/)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 24, 2022, 06:11:26 PM
This is the bucket and best universal attachment Iíve had hands down. If you get the removable floor like I have you then have a rock bucket and for even smaller rocks they make another screen that goes in between the bigger ones. Plus they did make some bolt on bucket wings for snow removal. 

https://demo-dozer.com/ (https://demo-dozer.com/)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stavebuyer on December 24, 2022, 07:31:01 PM
None of those buckets will do what you want. Tried them all in an effort to keep the #3 rock on my log yard and remove the bark and soil that came in with the logs. You would need a screening plant.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 24, 2022, 07:49:22 PM
The bigger spacing will absolutely work for rocks separating from dirt but the narrower spacing depending on what soil you are in will dictate how good it works. But if you do a few different techniques it will work. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 24, 2022, 08:02:15 PM
You want to know the absolute best way to get rid of the rocks and have a big boy Skidsteer.  Hands down a FAE rock crusher. Watch the video. One of many out there. Look at the size of rock and then the finished product. Thereís nothing that can compare to that unit

https://youtu.be/OS_SRtEJRVs (https://youtu.be/OS_SRtEJRVs)

If you have a Pto tractor with minimum 360 hp then you could get the FAE Pto units. 
https://youtu.be/OS_SRtEJRVs (https://youtu.be/OS_SRtEJRVs)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on December 24, 2022, 08:26:28 PM
IDM (http://idmcabc.com/)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 25, 2022, 12:50:27 AM
If your going to get a rock bucket the minimum spacing I would get is 4Ē spacing otherwise you will have the trouble Stavebuyer had. Unless you are in sandy soil or a material that will go through you will be dissatisfied. Even on the bigger spacing when you dig some rock out you might have to dump and back drag over the top to break things up and pick back up so the loose material goes through. I had the Vernig narrow spaced one years ago. I thought I could use it combination style but  It went down the road. Many different buckets out there to choose from. One with a independent grapple would give some flexibility  
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/4A011911-74D4-40E0-A8B3-62704A80D4E0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1671946918)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 25, 2022, 01:06:46 AM
If your serious about picking rocks this is what you are going to want but itís going to cost more than a bucket but way better. And way cheaper than a skid rock crusher

https://flexxifinger.com/Farm-Machinery/Model-400-Flexxifinger-Quicker-Picker (https://flexxifinger.com/Farm-Machinery/Model-400-Flexxifinger-Quicker-Picker)

https://flexxifinger.com/Farm-Machinery/Rock-Picker (https://flexxifinger.com/Farm-Machinery/Rock-Picker)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: stavebuyer on December 25, 2022, 02:57:44 AM
IDM (http://idmcabc.com/)
@barbender (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1286) posted the link for the tool you need.

Any bucket with tine spacing close enough to screen RR ballast will clog like my 4" rod bucket grapple. Handy tool but useless for screening #3 limestone.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 25, 2022, 03:54:09 AM
This company makes good stuff. 

https://www.loftness.com/product/rock-picker/ (https://www.loftness.com/product/rock-picker/)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on December 25, 2022, 07:52:40 AM
Merry Christmas boys!
Cat drum mulcher, who makes them and any good?
Got a line on a 2018 299D xph
Low 300 hours, bucket & forks, oil cooler and fire suppression for $110k. 
I wasn't really looking for a Cat machine but the asking price has me intrested. 
Opinions on the machine, price, Cats mulcher?
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: beenthere on December 25, 2022, 09:31:19 AM
Quote
Got a line on a 2018 299D xph

maybe that is XHP mulcher?

Put up a link to see what you mean by "mulcher".  

Like this one?
https://www.forestrytrader.com/listing/for-sale/215749773/2017-caterpillar-299d2-xhp-skid-steer-mulchers
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 25, 2022, 10:13:58 AM
Merry Christmas boys!
Cat drum mulcher, who makes them and any good?
Got a line on a 2018 299D xph
Low 300 hours, bucket & forks, oil cooler and fire suppression for $110k.
I wasn't really looking for a Cat machine but the asking price has me intrested.
Opinions on the machine, price, Cats mulcher?
The fire suppression thatís on it is expensive and good to have. FAE makes the mulcher and they are good.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: farmfromkansas on December 25, 2022, 11:40:20 AM
I bought a rock bucket, 4"just a cheap attachment, did not work well.  Did work ok on large rocks, but many are smaller and go right through.  Only attachment to screen I have found that looks like it might work is a flip screen, was priced 11,000 plus freight from Dallas. Think the size was a 30 or 300.  Next size bigger was 18000.  Was looking at landscape rakes as I saw some videos of them using them to screen rocks out of yards, and it just drug the rocks out of the dirt and into the bucket.  They use a drum or chain between sprockets and drag the rock back into the bucket, you back the skidsteer up through the rock patch.  Have seen some selling on various auction sites but none local.  Bobcat has built them for years but the local dealer has none, offered to sell me one, but none to try out.  That screener is interesting if I don't find something cheaper.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on December 25, 2022, 12:57:39 PM
Quote
Got a line on a 2018 299D xph

maybe that is XHP mulcher?

Put up a link to see what you mean by "mulcher".  

Like this one?
https://www.forestrytrader.com/listing/for-sale/215749773/2017-caterpillar-299d2-xhp-skid-steer-mulchers
No it's a drum style mulcher. To me there's 2 types of "mulchers" drum and disc. I should have mentioned "drum". All the rest are varying degree of mowers. That's nots my commentary on their usefulness or purpose. 👍
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on December 25, 2022, 01:10:47 PM
Merry Christmas boys!
Cat drum mulcher, who makes them and any good?
Got a line on a 2018 299D xph
Low 300 hours, bucket & forks, oil cooler and fire suppression for $110k.
I wasn't really looking for a Cat machine but the asking price has me intrested.
Opinions on the machine, price, Cats mulcher?
The fire suppression thatís on it is expensive and good to have. FAE makes the mulcher and they are good.
Any opinions on the machine and price? It's probably unfair (I've never owned one) but have the feeling that Cat just offers them (ss & ctl) filling in the "spectrum" of dirt machines for their big dirt guys. (Brand loyalty and convenience) 
Like I said it's the price that has my attention. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 25, 2022, 05:30:27 PM
Guys are paying on average between 150-160 with and without various options for a new one. What model head you looking at 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on December 26, 2022, 07:41:42 AM
It's got a Cat HM415C drum on it. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 26, 2022, 08:04:32 AM
Be looking forward to hearing about it more and seeing pictures of it if you get it! Sounds pretty nice 👍 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on December 26, 2022, 04:42:15 PM
Between Christmas and making my mind up, it's gone. Called him this morning. 
I really, really screwed up. 
2018 299D2 XPH 313 hours 
Smooth bucket, forks and Cats drum mulcher.
Rooftop oil cooler and fire suppression. $110k
It was on craigslist so that raised my senses although I've never had any issues selling or buying. I don't-won't do FB so marketplace is not an option. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/25148/Screenshot_20221222-073449_DuckDuckGo.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1672090821)

I might have to get a beer to cry in. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on December 26, 2022, 04:50:14 PM
I would say so! Iíll drink 🍺 one for you! 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on February 01, 2023, 01:08:22 PM
I thought this was kind of funny, I was moving some long logs because I was too lazy to make two trips, and I got them all in one gulp.  However, I was having to thread them between the power pole and building, so filmed it in case I tore something down.  I didn't, thankfully.

However, this shows off the lifting power of a small compact track loader, it didn't even strain.  I was just trying not to hit anything. :D :D :D

A Few Sticks for the Sawmill - YouTube (https://youtube.com/shorts/27-Qv0eHDiY?feature=share)
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on February 02, 2023, 05:55:51 AM
They told the dealers at the dealer meeting to keep things quiet but about a hour after and the cat was out of the bag
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/C9D14B45-99AF-4EE1-B4DA-3CCC99396671.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1675335331)
 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on February 02, 2023, 07:37:03 AM
I kinda view Yanmar as Tackiuchi's un recognized twin brother in terms of quality. 
I've only had one little YM tractor many years ago (336D) but it was a very good machine. I've been running my Gehl with a YM 4 cyl and it's been flawless for 20 years. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: fluidpowerpro on February 02, 2023, 02:11:43 PM
Yanmar now owns ASV so it's likely an ASV with a new paint job.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on February 02, 2023, 03:14:40 PM
I was wondering about that, FPP...I thought Yanmar purchased ASV with the idea that their products would fill the gap in Yanmar's lineup so I'm kind of surprised to see this. I'd have to compare it side by side to the ASV to see if it's just rebadged, or a new product.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on February 02, 2023, 03:53:01 PM
From the picture, it doesn't have the ASV track system that I can see, more of the conventional Deere/Kubota system.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Resonator on February 02, 2023, 05:21:42 PM
The overhanging engine-hood behind the cab looks like the ASV design.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on February 02, 2023, 05:35:10 PM
Iím sure they want to bring the price point down with the rigid track system and compete for more market share with the two offerings.   

The new ASV 135 has many things going on guys are furious about now. The guys that have them mulching love them but many problems with first model year. Some guys are actually selling them and keeping their 120s and looking for more 120s to add and staying away from the 135 until they get all the bugs worked out. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: barbender on February 02, 2023, 06:04:44 PM
Yes, the rigid undercarriage is different. Otherwise it looks a lot like an ASV VT70.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: Walnut Beast on February 02, 2023, 07:49:55 PM
Guys are saying it is on a larger frame 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on February 02, 2023, 07:58:49 PM
Never get the first year version....
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: newoodguy78 on February 02, 2023, 11:23:14 PM
Couldnít agree more Yellowhammer
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: customsawyer on February 03, 2023, 04:58:20 AM
My only experience with Yanmar is the engine swap I did on the extended mill back in '09 or '10. That little engine has done everything I have asked from it and then some. Other than regular maintenance a front main seal is all it has needed. If the rest of their equipment is as good as that engine has been I would buy one in a heartbeat.  
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: jpassardi on February 03, 2023, 07:32:08 AM
The early compact John Deere tractors were built by Yanmar. I have a 1990 with a 2 Cyl Yanmar, 4x4 and it's definitely more rugged built than a newer comparable size Deere. Low hours, I use it only to mow and it's been top notch.
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: 711ac on February 03, 2023, 08:54:36 AM
From the picture, it doesn't have the ASV track system that I can see, more of the conventional Deere/Kubota system.
That could be an advantage to many possible customers and I could see them eventually offering both like Cat. (Used to ?) More likely imho is they're using ASV's USA dealer's as a sales/distribution foothold. That seems to have been one of their problems "jumping" in and out of the US market over the years. 
Title: Re: Skid steers
Post by: YellowHammer on February 03, 2023, 01:26:43 PM
The dealer network is the biggest ASV roadblock up here, there are not any that arenít rental shops.  So for at least the ones I called, rental item repair gets top priority and owners machines get end of the line.  No deal for me.