Been a while - Alaskan Milling questions

[Engineer]

Hi All, It's been a long time since I've checked in here.  Haven't had a sawmill in over ten years, and I've been wanting to get back into it.  I've been looking at all the options available, and I have a small pile of logs (maybe 20) to saw up.  Rather than having to find a local sawyer, I've decided to get back into milling at the most basic level and get myself a Granberg Alaskan MkIV mill.  I'm really only a hobby woodworker, don't want to sell any lumber or slabs, and just hate to see nice logs turned into firewood.  At some point, 5-10 years down the road, I may consider a bandmill again, but the logs won't wait and I can afford this now.  Anyway, in the meantime I have a few questions for you guys who have these mills, or have used them. 

I'm going to make some heavy timber ponies that set up off the ground a couple feet, so that I can place the log on the ponies and mill standing up.  Most of what I will be milling should be 20-30" in diameter, so getting it off the ground a bit would help.  Would it be an advantage to make one of them shorter than the other so that the log is on a slope?  That way I can use the weight of the saw assembly to help move it down the cut.

Second, what do you use for rails?  Or in other words, what would be your ideal rail setup?  I've seen everything from the EZ Rails to 2x4's to steel tube sections to aluminum ladders.  I want something that is fairly easy to transport, easy to install on a log, and quick to set up.  I was considering the 80/20 aluminum extrusion, or maybe finding some heavy wall aluminum channel and making custom brackets for the ends.  I'll probably cut most logs at 8-10' but I already have a few 3' - 4' sections of really nice cherry that I don't want to waste.  So a couple options for length will be good.

Chainsaw - I'm buying a 36" mill.  I don't expect to have to cut anything larger, and if I do, I can always whittle it down.  I have a Dolmar PS-6400, which is not really a big saw for milling, so I'm wondering if finding a larger saw would be a better option.  That, of course, pushes up the cost a lot and I'd like to stick with my current saw for now and just put a 32" or 36" bar on it. 

Finally, any thoughts in general on tips and tricks for getting started with this setup? 

[JoshNZ]

I started with a 36" bar on a 72cc 038 and that was pretty hard on it. I'd say 30" logs for a 64cc is asking a lot of it. But it can be done if you're patient and nice to your saw.

I've heard of people running the saw downhill, no harm in that I think.

Use whatever you have for the rail for first cut, anything straight and stiff and easy to secure. You can nail/screw to the opening cut slab because it's waste anyway then ride subsequent cuts obv.

If you're saying a bandmill might be on the cards I bet you'll find a way to make it happen sooner if you're tackling 20 × ~25" logs with a 64cc saw haha. Good luck and have fun!

Get a chain grinder too, you don't get that many slabs out of a chain and it's nice to be able to touch up quickly with little effort

[burdman_22]

I'll echo @JoshNZ and say you'll probably want a bigger chainsaw (I use a 121cc saw, but you probably wont need that big). Are you planning to make lumber or live edge slabs? If you're doing lumber, I agree that you'll probably push hard to get back into bandmilling, especially after the first log you try to CSM with a chain that is anything but razor sharp. If you'd like to see CSM with dull blade, check out my most recent video on Update Your Browser | Facebook think it took all of like 30 minutes, and I was winded after. If your plan is to saw with an underpowered saw (yours will be), I'd advise some skip tooth chain of some sort. Skip tooth chain has fewer cutters than regular chain, causing the chain to take out a little less with each rotation, meaning less power is required (your saw shouldn't bog down as much).

I currently use a 16 ft aluminum extension ladder as my starter rail, and I'm actually considering using some 16 ft 2x4s for all of my subsequent cuts as currently I'm not able to mill by myself (haven't been comfortable enough to try anyway). I've also got a CSM winch on the way...it will be here tomorrow and I am super excited to try it out (pushing SUCKS). Of note, extension ladders arent super quick to attach to the log, unless the log is completely straight and round. I use metal tie strap to fasten it, with wedges/shims for leveling and stabilizing the ladder.

Thus far I've not jacked up any of my logs, but I've needed to. I usually end up crawling on the ground AND my powerhead ends up touching some before I finish. I'm milling a 52 inch Osage Orange this Sunday and plan to go raise it up onto some chunks of log Saturday after I finish up an Oak....full weekend of milling for me, haha.

Side note, I plan to live stream from my facebook some this weekend, if you have facebook and follow me you should get a notification when I go live. I plan on showing how my ladder gets strapped down after I make my first cut.

[offrink]

I started on a 59" bar. At a 96" double head now. The problem with ladders and 2x4's is they are flexible. Flexible is bad. I use 1x3 solid aluminum rail with holes drilled in the cross braces so that a bolt can be jamb nutted and the height and angle can be adjusted because logs aren't the same diameter all the way down right? I use a stihl 880, and soon a 881, powerhead and find that any logs under 36" gets tippy and tends to want to roll the log. I find that a downward angles log doesn't work as well as I always wanted it to. The change in height as I walk changes the angle the saw wants to take. 

[aigheadish]

Well, @Engineer , you have officially asked the exact same chainsaw mill questions I have! 

I'll say that I've only cut a few slabs out with mine and I've been waiting for better weather to get back into trying it out. That weather is finally approaching.

I also plan to build some beefy offset sawhorses that would allow for some downhill action, but I need to find some good examples so I don't burn through wood making mistakes in building them. I tried just setting a 7 or 8 foot log on a couple rounds I had laying around and the log rocked back and forth as I cut and I ended up having the saw cut at a terrible angle. I'm still trying to save that piece, but I'm not sure how it'll end up going. 

My first cut has been started with a 2x6 screwed into the top of the log. This worked pretty well for my use but I could see making it much better and cleaner. I don't have usable scrap metal really sitting around to try, though I do have a ladder in the shed and I'll see how that would work next time out. There are good youtube videos that give some decent ways to ensure more straight first cuts out there too...

For the saw I've used my Husqvarna 455 and I thought, with a ripping chain, it did fine. Granted it was a brand new chain so there is likely some justification of it getting harder but I thought it was ok. 

You'll want some wedges to place in your kerf as you go also, probably more than you think, so you don't bind up the saw. I tried using scrap wood wedges and it didn't go so well. I was likely using too severe of an angle and the wood may have been softer than it should have been. Not sure what I'll do there next time. 

[Brucer]

I sold off all my CSM equipment the year after I bought my first WoodMizer. Take note :D.

I used a 70 CC Jonsered, (which was a little underpowered) with 38" between the vertical supports.

For the two opening faces, I made a guide out of a straight, flat 2x12, with a pair of 3/16" x 1-1/2" steel angles screwed onto one face on either side, using flat head screws countersunk into the steel. The guide was about 10' long.

One one end of the log I would lag screw a piece of 2x8 that was just long enough to fit between the steel angles. Then I'd fasten a similar piece at the other end, sighting along the tops to make sure they were level with each other (and nothing poking up from the log in between them.

Once the end pieces were bolted on , I'd stretch a string line between them, about 3/4" in from the edges. Using that as a guide I would sink a 7" or 8" x 3/8" lag screw down into the log every 4', setting the top of the head flush with the string. Then repeat on the other side.

At this point I'd have a log with a block of wood at each end to rest my guide on, and two rows of lag screws down the log, all set to the same height. I'd then rest my wood/steel guide on top of and end block and however many lag screws it would cover. The angles face downward, providing a wear-resistant face to rest on the lag screws. the legs of the angles keep the board from sliding sideways off the screws.

To start a cut, I'd set the height of the bar so it would PASS UNDER ALL THE LAG SCREWS. Then I'd pull the guide board out a foot or so from the end of the support block. That would give me a nice stable surface to position the saw before cutting. After that, push the saw through the cut until I got near the end of the guide (using kerf wedges every 4 feet or so). Stop the cut, and slide the guide along another 8 feet or so, and carry on sawing.

This was a bit slow to set up but there was literally no limit to the length of log I could cut.

Kerf wedges: 1" x 11/32" maple about 2" long. Starting at the middle I tapered the wide face down to about 9/32" at the end. Round the corners to prevent splintering, and drilled a 1/4" hole near the un-tapered end. The thickness was just a hair more than the saw kerf -- adjust for your particular chain. These were easy to drive in, often with the palm of my hand. The hole was used to hang them on a nail in my tool box and made it easy to pull one out if it got pinched. All painted with Temco "Fire Red", 'cause otherwise they blend with the sawdust.

I still have piece of birch 8" wide by 0.02" thick by 8' long that I cut with my CSM . The secret -- cut it off the BOTTOM of a cant that you've square up from the top face.

[aigheadish]

@Brucer That's a ton of good info and jigging, thank you!

[Sauna freak]

What is the maximum size and type of logs you will be milling?  I'm cutting off grid lumber at a hunting camp for onsite use and cutting one-off high value pieces such as mantles and timbers and live edge/spalted/wormhole per order.  I've made a handy profit, many times the cost of the mill and saw combined without extraordinary effort.

The largest log sizes I'm running into are around 30", and I only have a small Alaskan MKIV with aprox 18" useable cutting width on a 24" bar.  I'm running it on and Echo 59cc until I burn it up, then I would like some more CCs, but I'm making it work with the Echo...just can't push it hard.  Cutting softwoods from Black spruce to Jack pine, Red Pine, White pine, Balsam Fir.  A couple of butt logs with lots of taper have needed a freehand cut to set a rough edge and get me narrow enough to use my mill.

I've found more cons than pros to cutting downhill.  You get a little benefit from gravity, but you end up fighting the saw here and there when it digs in a little hard and wants to bog down.  Also harder to stay plumb and level and keep a consistent slab when you're cutting knotty wood.  IMHO, near level is best.

For rails, I'm using 2- 2x6x10' VERY STRAIGHT pieces I salvaged from an old barn with 6" spacers screwed edgewise between, and some heavy framing screws run through the spacers between the rails to dog into the logs.  I've got 4 spacers on a 10' rail section attached with screws so they can be moved to clear irregularities in the log, and if I desire to cut longer stock, I can make up a longer rail by screwing 2x4 inside or outside the rails to extend.  Firmly holds the rail to the log, and with a quick straightness check on the rails with a cheap lazer from Menards, I'm getting beautifully straight first cuts.  For very short logs, I just tack a piece of straight 1x on top with roofing nails and be sure to set my first cut depth below nail depth.  

[aigheadish]

Next time you are out I'd love to see a picture of that @Sauna freak 

[burdman_22]

I've milled about 6 logs with my csm thus far, the largest of which was about 40 inches. I used the granberg csm winch this week for the first time and absolutely love it! No more pushing for me unless cutting cookies

[Sauna freak]

Next time you are out I'd love to see a picture of that @Sauna freak

Will do this weekend.  My good rail and level are deployed on an island at a friends camp that I won't access again until ice out.  I was cutting on his island, and expected to get back but a death in the family kept me away and the ice has gone to hell, but I'll have the mill and my scabbed rail built out of 2x4 up at the shack this weekend trying to finish my sauna build.  It's nothing special, just straight lumber with spacers and some screws for dogs.  I leave the screws about as long as the width of the rails and set the first cut depth accordingly.  Occasionally a spacer will split on tensioning the dog screws, so I keep a few in reserve, and am looking for a good, knotty piece of spruce to pull out of the firewood pile to make some more durable ones.  If I find some more straight lumber without having to pay a ridiculous amount, I'm thinking of mitering my spacers to make more of a shallow V for higher tapered logs.  

Haven't figured out a way to square it for a second cut to get a clean 90 going on a cant or timber.  So far, everything I've made has been "close enough for government work" or a thinner slab that could be cleaned to a good 90 edge on the table saw, so haven't had to solve that problem.  I have ideas on how to work it.  When I had to cut 2 sides due to log thickness, I used 2 short 2x4 and a shelf bracket to aproximate 90 degrees, and screwed the rail firmly to the timber.  I got pretty close, within 5 degrees.  If I had a couple of framing squares to drill and attach to the 2x4 guides, I could have nailed it.

[Sauna freak]

 

  Here is a picture of my remote setup. The "good one " I use in more accessible locations is more refined and heavier. 

[SwampDonkey]

Mark Bernstein has a few videos.

logcabinlooms - YouTube

[Don P]

A few pics I had in the gallery. We use a scaffold plank or ladder most of the time, the scaffold is stiffer. For squaring up I set up those yokes off a snapped line and framing square. Just tick the uprights when you get to each one and use the ticked kerf to reset the yoke behind you. Slow but it works.. Up off the ground is more fun, sloped doesn't help and is a pain, my brain works better in plumb and level.

Watch wedging and stress springing if you are attached to the slab on the opening cut. If the slab is moving or being jacked by overdriving wedges so is your cut.


 


 

 

 
Structural steel lags are tougher than chain, check your heights  :D

[aigheadish]

Thanks @Sauna freak 

That's a nice looking cut @Don P !

I expect to be too busy to get out and mess with my CSM for the next couple weeks but hopefully I'll get out after that and try 'er out. 

The methods you guys have shown are good to help me be a bit more confident.