Skid steers

[Walnut Beast]

Just by comparison the new case TV 620 B tracked  has a 6,200 lb operating capacity that's 50% tipping load compared to the 333 John Deere tracked it's 3,700 operating capacity 50 % tipping load. 

[Walnut Beast]

Just by comparison the new case TV 620 B tracked  has a 6,200 lb operating capacity that's 50% tipping load compared to the 333 John Deere tracked it's 3,700 operating capacity 50 % tipping load.

The 50% tipping load on the Deere 333 is around 4,700. 

[barbender]

  That Case looks like an animal, I'd love to put one through the paces!
 
 I found the 74 hp number of the JCB slightly suspicious 😊

[Walnut Beast]

The weight rating that I like to use is the tipping load. What is it going to take for that machine to tip at 35% or 50% fully loaded and extended fully up. If it's really good there it's going to be really good lifting low. Like double to tip

[customsawyer]

I demoed the 74 HP JCB boom CTL a few years ago. I was comparing it to the 90 HP NH I have with tires. The JCB didn't have much more lift capacity than the NH. Maybe a couple hundred pounds. This was a few years ago so some things might have changed since then.

[stavebuyer]

Honestly I think you are searching for a "Catdog". Standard sawmill capacity loaders as you have noted are 6k. You operate a first rate retail lumber yard that you don't really need a track machine churning up your nicely packed gravel. Buy whatever CTL suits your flow/traction/slope needs and forget about 6k lifting. Plenty of options in that category/price range. The money you save not buying a 120K beast of a CTL to destroy your parking lot can be used to rent a real wheel loader/rough terrain forklift/skip loader/telehandler if you happen to need one for backup and or buy an older model of one of those as a spare.

[Ventryjr]

I'm your space should be a factor considered.  I'd I had the room at my mill I would use my Ford 555 backhoe to move everything around. It has great lifting capacity and is easy on the gravel lot.  But in my tight spaces my CTL tears it up but is easy to maneuver. 

[Walnut Beast]

Just by comparison the new case TV 620 B tracked  has a 6,200 lb operating capacity that's 50% tipping load compared to the 333 John Deere tracked it's 3,700 operating capacity 50 % tipping load.

The 50% tipping load on the Deere 333 is around 4,700.

Correction. Those specs were the Deere 333E. The newer G model has 5,815 50% tipping load and a 11,630 tipping load. All the bigger tracked machines are going to have a 10,000 plus tipping load. That is with a bucket down low before the machine tips forward. Can't go wrong with any of the bigger ones. More lift capacity, power and hydraulic flow

[YellowHammer]

@Gary C 
When you push or grade undisturbed dirt with your 300T, does the single boom flex enough to drop a corner or dig the bucket in or otherwise cause issues?  I'm assuming it has very little flex, but I don't see how it can't have any, especially after a little wear on the pins.  So is the flex enough to cause grading and digging issues?

@Stavebuyer
Thanks much for the compliments.  You are probably right, and I like to see the whole envelope of specs, and then pick one that best fills most of what I need.  I figure I won't be able to check all the boxes, but at $100K I'd like to check as many as possible.  From a usability standpoint, there seem to be lots of tradeoffs.  I think as a minimum, it needs to lift as much as my other machines, because I've kind of standardized my other equipment and even our operation to center on 6,000 lbs, and if something goes down, I'd need this to pinch hit for while the other machine gets fixed or replaced, which in today's environment could take months.

I did talk to JCB Corporate yesterday, they are sending me the detailed specs of the machines, hopefully today.  They say that they have enough business in Huntsville now that they are opening a new dealership here in the near future, so that would lessen the service and warranty issues.  They also said they we not going to upgrade their Hp ratings anytime soon, they believe staying under the DEF limits makes more sense to them because they consider the 100hp range is a niche market, and basically not what sells in the higher volume construction market.  That's an interesting strategy when other manufacturers are trying increase Hp, JCB is staying where they are.  Also, they have the tipping load and their bucket sized so that it can extend a full bucket of material straight out and still feel solid.  

Also, they have machines generally "in stock" and could get me one virtually anytime I want, as they would ship one off their manufacturing lot, straight to the dealer, then once prepped, to me.  That's surprising where every other dealer says they are months out for delivery of their brand of new machines, and I can't even get my favorite Redwing boots in until next March.    

[Gary_C]

I have been doing mostly cleanup around the farm from years of having dairy cattle and have never seen any twisting or side to side movement of the bucket. I've moved a lot of dirt and grubbed brush and even stumps with no visible movement, even when hooking small stumps under one side of the bucket. I suspect those movement issues are a result of many more hours of use than my machine has plus a lack of greasing of the pins.

One of the changes JCB has made to counteract those issues is to switch (in a year just newer than mine) to tapered pins in the loader mounting. That should reduce any problems with both wear and loose tolerances in the loader mounts in any new machine you might try.

My used machine was previously used seasonally as a rental primarily for winter snow removal. The one problem that I have with the loader mounts is a slight squeak which can be caused by snow washing the grease out of the pins. If frequent greasing does not stop the squeak, I may have to remove the pins and relube them. So I've seen no problems yet.

That video I posted is from the farm in Wisconsin that made a bunch of good videos on various uses of their JCB trial. You can find then all here but you may have to search back in his list for the JCB videos.
How Farms Work  

[mike_belben]

Whatever you buy, strap it to the trailer.  I was next to a CTL on a tilt trailer going 70mph on i-40 today with zero securement. 

[D6c]

Haven't read all the comments here but here's my take.  
If you're buying new or near new you might want to stay under 75 hp so you don't have to deal with DEF and associated problems.  I have heard some negative things about the one arm on JCB's.  CTL tracks tear up the gravel/yard every time you turn.  
For a dedicated sawmill machine I'd consider a compact wheel loader or possibly a telehandler.... but I realize they're pricy.  I do like having the overhead door on my Kubota SVL95-2s but they rattle like crazy and it's almost impossible to adjust it out.  Oh, and CTLs are helpless in snow.

[barbender]

ASV machines go anywhere in the snow. The first one I ever operated was one of the older models, a 4810 or something like that. We were using it to build a Sno-X practice track. You could push up a pile of snow, and drive right up on top of it. You literally did whatever you wanted to with it in the snow. I've never ran a CTL in snow, so I don't know from personal experience but I've heard people say they're a bit helpless.

[okmulch]

 

 
No problem pushing snow with my cat 299d2 last February with a 6 way blade. 

[mike_belben]

It wasnt a track machine put i put a 9ft fisher blade on my dads LS170 with chains only on the fronts and it did great.  Spun around real nice without tearing tar up too. If you were starting to spin just lift a bit and load the fronts. Waaay better than a bucket. 

[boardmaker]

Robert,
My brother runs a Bobcat 870 on his farm doing exactly what you're looking for.  It performs all the normal farm duties comforably.  He loves it.  The reason he bought it over other name brands was it's higher lift height.  He wanted a machine that could dump into his dump truck with sideboards from level ground.  He said it was the only one that could do it.  He's had it 5+ years no without any major issues.

Like Jake says, check out Takeuchi.  Several of the major dirt moving/excavation contractors local to me swear by them.  

[YellowHammer]

I really appreciate all the responses.  

From what I can tell many people are saying they have done what I was thinking.  A CTL  will do whatever I need on the farm, and will also serve as a useful, although not optimized, piece of sawmill equipment.  A good backup for what I already have, but also able to do things I can't do with what I already have.  

Cat, ASV, Bobcat, JCB, Kubota, Gehl, Oak and Deere all have good and bad, but I am starting to consider the whole 75 Hp limit for DEF units, which don't have the brute power of a larger unit.  Or rather go with the 100hp class units that have more muscle but will have issues with Tier4.  It's a big decision - more Hp with DPF or less Hp and no DPF and possibly less troubles down the road.  I've always said horsepower is king, but so is keeping it running.

Within the last two weeks, my Chevy truck has thrown two DPF error codes, both of which I've been able to buy parts and fix, but both of which would have cost thousand to repair at a dealer.  So DPF is painfully fresh on my mind.

[barbender]

Boardmaker, I don't know where he got the idea that the T870 was the only machine with enough light height to load end dumps with side boards. Even my old Case 1845C can do that, and I've never been in a CTL or skid steet that couldn't. And I've loaded literally hundreds upon hundreds of end dumps with them.
  Robert, that 75 hp DEF issue would be a tough call for me, too. Really, the medium frame machines are very capable, all I can say again is rent a few (or if you can get a dealer to let you have one for a demo😃) and try them out. 

[boardmaker]

Barbender,
I have no idea if his truck is taller than others, but his main purpose for the ctl was to load lime onto his dump truck and lime spreader so it maybe his lime spreading truck that is taller.  I remember him saying that he bought the bobcat because it was the only one he could find relatively locally that could lift high enough. 
It made me wonder what it's lift height is.  Based on this spec sheet, it is 12'1".
https://compactequip.com/track-loaders/bobcat-track-loaders-summarized-2019-spec-guide/

I browsed other manufactures that we have locally on the same site.
https://compactequip.com/track-loaders/compare-every-manufacturers-track-loader-in-our-2019-spec-guide/

Looks like JCB was the only that offered a machine that could lift that high.  Nearly all of the other manufacturers maxxed just over 10'.  

[barbender]

It does sound like that Bobcat has an exceptionally high dump height, whatever the case👍🏻

[OH logger]

My 870 lifts a foot higher than my old 770 and I wouldn't want to go back. Just helps loading logs if the bobcat is settin in the ditch or field and the semi is settin on the higher road. It was mentioned earlier about CTLs being bad on snow. I couldnt agree more. We buck pile and load logs on the landing with my T870 and after runnin over snow over and over it gets slick as snot on a doorknob. I bought these traction bars at the end of last winter that bolt (clamp) on to the tracks. They seem to be the cats meow but by the time they arrived it thawed out. I'm lookin forward to using em cause sitting still and spinning SUCKS. About useless without em. Kinda like skidder tire chains.  Skidder kev demos em on his you tube channel. 
As far as JCB skid loaders go one thing I noticed lookin at em Is the hydraulic connections for attachments on the front are on the opposite side of the machine as most other brands I've seen. How does that work? Just make some hydraulic hose extensions up? Cause most attachments have the hoses comin out the other side

[YellowHammer]

Interesting about the 870 lift height.

When I talked at length to the JCB Mothership, they said the JCB 8T CTL's have two sets of hydros, and the low flow are the only ones that work when the boom is extended up to 8 feet, and although "they" don't recommend it, the machine can run a low flow rotary cutter, and many people use it to reach up into trees and trim very high branches and even reach out over pond banks and mow them.  They don't recommend it because people get careless and throw debris at themselves.    

The high flow only work with the boom retracted, and are for high flow munchers and cutters and such.  

I didn't realize they were on different sides, or even that there is a standard side.  

I've always discounted Bobcat equipment, but not for professional reasons.  Many years ago, I had an acquaintance who worked for the local Bobcat dealer and he would joke about how unreliable the equipment was, and how they gouged customers for repairs.  It kind of spoiled my taste for Bobcat.  He long since stopped working there, he had to "go away for 5 to 7 years", and I am hearing pretty good things about Bobcat now.  

[Walnut Beast]

I really appreciate all the responses.  

From what I can tell many people are saying they have done what I was thinking.  A CTL  will do whatever I need on the farm, and will also serve as a useful, although not optimized, piece of sawmill equipment.  A good backup for what I already have, but also able to do things I can't do with what I already have.  

Cat, ASV, Bobcat, JCB, Kubota, Gehl, Oak and Deere all have good and bad, but I am starting to consider the whole 75 Hp limit for DEF units, which don't have the brute power of a larger unit.  Or rather go with the 100hp class units that have more muscle but will have issues with Tier4.  It's a big decision - more Hp with DPF or less Hp and no DPF and possibly less troubles down the road.  I've always said horsepower is king, but so is keeping it running.

Within the last two weeks, my Chevy truck has thrown two DPF error codes, both of which I've been able to buy parts and fix, but both of which would have cost thousand to repair at a dealer.  So DPF is painfully fresh on my mind.

If this will make you even think more there are are 280 plus error codes on the ASV 120 😂

[stavebuyer]

Interesting about the 870 lift height.

When I talked at length to the JCB Mothership, they said the JCB 8T CTL's have two sets of hydros, and the low flow are the only ones that work when the boom is extended up to 8 feet, and although "they" don't recommend it, the machine can run a low flow rotary cutter, and many people use it to reach up into trees and trim very high branches and even reach out over pond banks and mow them.  They don't recommend it because people get careless and throw debris at themselves.    

The high flow only work with the boom retracted, and are for high flow munchers and cutters and such.  

I didn't realize they were on different sides, or even that there is a standard side.  

I've always discounted Bobcat equipment, but not for professional reasons.  Many years ago, I had an acquaintance who worked for the local Bobcat dealer and he would joke about how unreliable the equipment was, and how they gouged customers for repairs.  It kind of spoiled my taste for Bobcat.  He long since stopped working there, he had to go away for 5 to 7 years, and I am hearing pretty good things about them now.  

Just FYI I used to trim some branches with my cat 289D and 6ft rotary cutter. It was a more or less a 12K weight class machine and just the weight of the cutter with no extension it gets a little "tippy" fully extended. The whole "lever" thing working against you.
Just for conversation; There used to be a contractor who had two "long boom" excavators that maintained every inch of impossible to traverse ROW sections of the Western KY Parkway. Standing water swamps, vertical rock cuts, places too steep for track machines to mow etc.  Obviously not the machine for lumber stacks but an excavator does lots of things a CTL could never touch.
You really need to run a CTL around your sawmill to see if the advantages outweigh the downsides for your operation. The CAT for instance had several layers of "safety" interlocks. The hydraulics default to off if the door latch is not closed, the "arm restraints are not closed, and the hydro button not pushed. Need to adjust the dunnage to set you pack? Not so fast; first set pack down so you can open door, swing the restraint arms out of the way, open the door and climb across the forks around your pack. Like getting strapped into an Apollo capsule and going through a launch sequence. No big deal if your going to mulch until dinner but a real pain if your sawing by yourself and need in an out of it every little while. Go to open the door and due to an unlevel surface the loader still is an inch off the ground and blocking your door? Sorry squirm back into the seat, fully close both restraining arms, and activate the hydraulic push button so you can now lower the loader arms 1/2" so you can open the door and repeat the process getting back in.
I had a JCB Compact Wheel Loader. Loved it and only had one issue with a short in the AC circuit they fixed under warranty. Compared to CAT, Volvo, and even the Hyundai loaders I had the cab had a bit of a "cheaper" feel and did have more rattles and vibration. It also is a "JCB" and they tend to sell or trade at a discount when that day rolls around.

[customsawyer]

I only have personal experience with the JCB 74 hp boom machine. It would barely lift a little more than my 90 hp tire machine. I've watched tree surgeons with their 75 hp CTL machines and they seem to struggle with one log, when they get up in size. Where the JD that I have will have it moved and back for the next one while they are walking around on their tippie toes. Yes some where down the road I'm sure I will have some trouble with the DEF system, but I will have gotten a lot more work done before then. Most of these companies are getting a lot of the bugs worked out of these systems. At the moment my plan is to probably trade the machine just about the time the warranty goes out. That plan will likely change when I get the price on the next machine.