Skid steers

[YellowHammer]

I'm still looking at everything I can in person, including articulated wheel loaders, metal track loaders, backhoes and mini excavators.  

I'm not in a big hurry, and its interesting that I still haven't found anything quite as versatile as a CTL for such a variety of jobs around the sawmill and the farm.  I've seen specs that a CTL it will handle slopes up to 35° without issues (Cat is rated for 45° as far as I can tell), it will move dirt (I move a lot of that), cut ditches and maintain fence lines (I maintain several miles give or take), move logs, run a bush more or mulcher, and other tasks.  A CTL will do these fairly easy.  

While mowing some of our roadsides and hill sides this weekend where I was sliding down the hill and leaving skid marks, I pulled out my cellphone and measured the slope angle and it was 18°.  I went to my tractor manual and its tip over angle was listed at 20°.  I felt better, because at least I was smart enough to stop and head to the barn.  I'm too old for that.  

However, as people have stated, I haven't found anything with as cramped a cab and as high maintenance as a CTL.  Locally, in Huntsville, I have a Deere, Cat, and Kubota dealer.  

I noticed while I was driving yesterday that a rental shop in town had an ASV CTL, so I would assume they are dealers for them, but I didn't stop to ask.  I haven't heard a lot about them, but from what I've read, they are nice machines, with a very good reputation, but high maintenance and expensive track system.  I would appreciate any feedback on them.  I'm also debating my decision on 100hp machines.  I have since learned that machines in the 70 hp class don't have to deal with lots of the EPA Tier 4 equipment, which is a bonus.  Thats one reason why some brands use the 70 hp class as a cutoff (Volvo).    

[nativewolf]

I have an SVL 95-2 and while it is a nice machine buyer beware- they have massive DEF fluid regeneration issues.  Huge.  

The 75's might have different engineering, not sure, but with the 95 it is so bad that they have so many recalls in place that they won't tell you it is recalled, they wait for complaints.  Like you have a tractor trailer scheduled and all of a sudden, out of the blue, it won't maintain power because the fuel system can't supply the huge supply of extra fuel it wants to regen and it wants to regen all day.  So you have a truck that takes 5 hours to unload, and one *pithed OFF truck driver.. and are out the other 3 loads he should have hauled...and then you spend all day on phone with Kubota and ...like magic you receive a recall notice in the mail.  Oh, and you cant drive it...oh and it takes them 1 month to get a service truck out there. Oh and they still want their check.  Oh and it is a 5 hour repair.  But yes a nice machine when it is working.  I'll be filing a small claims court issue on the recall on complaint problem I had.  I didn't know that was a thing, recall on complaint.  Cost us over a thousand in trucking and a month of lost machine time.  

Another common fail point- the fuel system line gets clogged because the fuel line  does a hard 90 just before it gets to the fuel filters - debris clogs there.  You can remove the debris with a narrow long screw.  Better yet install a screen (not a filter) in line on the fuel line before it gets to the main filter housing.

  
I have not seen so many complaints with the bobcat skid steers and they have the same power.  Bobcat is owned by one of the Korean conglomerates but they mostly leave it alone to make great equipment.  Today I'd probably look at a bobcat instead of a Kubota.  I like the Kubota power- the 95 is a big heavy skidsteer but the tracks keep it from being too problematic.  The suspension is hard- look into that.  It is not the best solution for everyone.  

[nativewolf]

@Nebraska I think you know about he ASVs that YH has just seen. I'm also curious as to the current status of them.

[mike_belben]

price out tracks, track frames, idlers, tensioners, final drives, bogeys on some of them and a wheelbarrow full of bottom rollers before you buy a track machine.  then price OTT tracks on rubber carriage.  before you pay it off, its gonna need UC work.

id rent a rubber track.  id own long term a rubber tire. and i will never own a regen.  

[luap]

interesting that on the new kubotaslv97-2 that the def reservoir is behind a separate locked access door. Apparently their attempt to encourage the operator to follow instructions on how to service the machine as everybody reads and follows the manual right? Makes me wonder when  various complaints are voiced how much is due to awareness of the operator versus machine design. 

[barbender]

In my personal experience, nothing comes close to the flotation and sidehill capabilities of the ASV undercarriage. It's been quite a few years since I have been operating construction equipment full time (10+ years), but I haven't seen much change in the basic u/c designs of ASV vs other manufacturers. I think Bobcat has a torsion setup in their uc rollers, Cat uses a torsion mount on the front of their uc to attach to frame. Other than that, everything is a rigid mount, rigid uc as far as I know. The ASV just sticks to sidehills where other machines slide. Flotation on soft ground or sand is also unparalleled. I'm not an ASV "fanboy" either, they are very high maintenance/cost but the performance is superior. If I was just digging, loading and such like a construction site or using it around the lig yard, I'd probably go with the lower cost of the rigid uc machines. If I was mowing on varied terrain, ASV all the way. YH, if you have a rental place local, I would recommend renting an ASV and trying it out for your sidehill mowing, I think you'll be impressed. I've had them on sidehills that were so steep that people that were watching went to get their coworkers to come watch, too😂  Steeper than a machine should be on, makes the hind end sore trying to stay in the seat on stuff like that, but the point us the tracks still grip in those conditions.

[mike_belben]

You are talking about the asv bottom with the bottom rolls paired on rubber tosion bogeys, inners and outers, right?

[farmfromkansas]

Kubota bought out Great Plains Manufacturing a few years ago, and now they have purchased the old Phillips lighting plant in Salina KS, and are setting it up to build skidsteers.  So expect to see a lot of orange around.

[barbender]

Yessir, Mike.

[Walnut Beast]

In my personal experience, nothing comes close to the flotation and sidehill capabilities of the ASV undercarriage. It's been quite a few years since I have been operating construction equipment full time (10+ years), but I haven't seen much change in the basic u/c designs of ASV vs other manufacturers. I think Bobcat has a torsion setup in their uc rollers, Cat uses a torsion mount on the front of their uc to attach to frame. Other than that, everything is a rigid mount, rigid uc as far as I know. The ASV just sticks to sidehills where other machines slide. Flotation on soft ground or sand is also unparalleled. I'm not an ASV "fanboy" either, they are very high maintenance/cost but the performance is superior. If I was just digging, loading and such like a construction site or using it around the lig yard, I'd probably go with the lower cost of the rigid uc machines. If I was mowing on varied terrain, ASV all the way. YH, if you have a rental place local, I would recommend renting an ASV and trying it out for your sidehill mowing, I think you'll be impressed. I've had them on sidehills that were so steep that people that were watching went to get their coworkers to come watch, too😂  Steeper than a machine should be on, makes the hind end sore trying to stay in the seat on stuff like that, but the point us the tracks still grip in those conditions.

Absolutely right! ASV is king and about to get even better with the new 135 Forestry (132hp) coming out with the MAX cab system like the current MAX 75 s. The new 135 will have 119 hydraulic hp to the head. 66 gpm. Four inch wider, eight inch color display, 55 gallon fuel tank and more. Like I said the others will mulch but when you get on the various mulching sites you will find out in a short time that ASV in the skidsteer game is the best. There are actually two true skidsteer Forestry mulchers it's the ASV Forestry and the Lamtrac units.  There is a reason CAT doesn't call there Land Management unit a Forestry one. And the proven track system on the 120 ASV will remain on the new one.

[barbender]

Like I say, I'm not an ASV fanboy but in my experience that undercarriage will go places and do things that others won't, as simple as that. They are more expensive to run, too. So you have to charge more per hour🤷‍♂️ I am liking what I see in some of the design elements of the newer machines coming out from them. They used to be the exceptional (imo) undercarriage but the machine itself seemed to be kind of an afterthought. 

[Walnut Beast]

I'm still looking at everything I can in person, including articulated wheel loaders, metal track loaders, backhoes and mini excavators.  

I'm not in a big hurry, and its interesting that I still haven't found anything quite as versatile as a CTL for such a variety of jobs around the sawmill and the farm.  I've seen specs that a CTL it will handle slopes up to 35° without issues (Cat is rated for 45° as far as I can tell), it will move dirt (I move a lot of that), cut ditches and maintain fence lines (I maintain several miles give or take), move logs, run a bush more or mulcher, and other tasks.  A CTL will do these fairly easy.  

While mowing some of our roadsides and hill sides this weekend where I was sliding down the hill and leaving skid marks, I pulled out my cellphone and measured the slope angle and it was 18°.  I went to my tractor manual and its tip over angle was listed at 20°.  I felt better, because at least I was smart enough to stop and head to the barn.  I'm too old for that.  

However, as people have stated, I haven't found anything with as cramped a cab and as high maintenance as a CTL.  Locally, in Huntsville, I have a Deere, Cat, and Kubota dealer.  

I noticed while I was driving yesterday that a rental shop in town had an ASV CTL, so I would assume they are dealers for them, but I didn't stop to ask.  I haven't heard a lot about them, but from what I've read, they are nice machines, with a very good reputation, but high maintenance and expensive track system.  I would appreciate any feedback on them.  I'm also debating my decision on 100hp machines.  I have since learned that machines in the 70 hp class don't have to deal with lots of the EPA Tier 4 equipment, which is a bonus.  Thats one reason why some brands use the 70 hp class as a cutoff (Volvo).    

The ASV Max RT 75 HD would be a good fit for you if your not mulching everyday. Awesome machine, can run a mulcher very good and can do everything incredible

[Walnut Beast]

 

 

[YellowHammer]

So when you this say more expensive to operate, I guess when the tracks wear out at 1,000 hours the undercarriage needs replacing also?    

[YellowHammer]

I called the nearest ASV dealer, (I've never talked to him before) he's about 45 minutes away and he fed me some info, so take it with a grain of salt and correct me if it's wrong.  He sells the ASV 75 HD, which is already set up for mulching and says yes they repair them, and he hasn't noticed any unusually high undercarriage work.  I asked him why rental companies use them and he said because people are hard on rentals, and he's seen them come back with hunks taken out of the rollers (are they steel or rubber?) and they keep working.  He says they are easy to change, also.

Also, he confirms what people say, they have a very soft ride, and he keeps one himself for use around the company yard for moving things.  Says they are very handy.

Anyway, I may go out and look at it.  He has one on order, but says it isn't scheduled for delivery until Feb, but says ASV puts a priority on delivery as soon as a customer's name is on it.  He also said that ASV has been bought up by Yanmar.  

[stavebuyer]

Be sure to determine how much time and trouble it takes to get in and out of the machine, change the oil, battery, and fuel filters as well as how you will put the track back on when it comes off to the inside while on that 20+ slope chocked against the stump that threw it off.

[Nebraska]

@nativewolf 
Wasn't me it was fellow Nebraskan  Walnut Beast.   I have a skid steer, an old 1816 Case repowered with a Briggs and Stratton.   Renting one of those ASV skid loaders is as close as I will get, unless I hire the Beast...

[Walnut Beast]

Be sure to determine how much time and trouble it takes to get in and out of the machine, change the oil, battery, and fuel filters as well as how you will put the track back on when it comes off to the inside while on that 20+ slope chocked against the stump that threw it off.

Guys mulch with these day in and day out! You don't have to worry about a track coming off in a ASV that's a fact! They can but it's rare. That's why they guarantee it. I'm a big guy and quite honestly I find it easier than getting in and out of my wheel loader I had.  In some aspects I can see the forks better than the wheel loader at different heights. Crawling and standing on the 20" tracks are nice to get to the top of the cab.

[Walnut Beast]

I called the nearest ASV dealer, (I've never talked to him before) he's about 45 minutes away and he fed me some info, so take it with a grain of salt and correct me if it's wrong.  He sells the ASV 75 HD, which is already set up for mulching and says yes they repair them, and he hasn't noticed any unusually high undercarriage work.  I asked him why rental companies use them and he said because people are hard on rentals, and he's seen them come back with hunks taken out of the rollers (are they steel or rubber?) and they keep working.  He says they are easy to change, also.

Also, he confirms what people say, they have a very soft ride, and he keeps one himself for use around the company yard for moving things.  Says they are very handy.

Anyway, I may go out and look at it.  He has one on order, but says it isn't scheduled for delivery until Feb, but says ASV puts a priority on delivery as soon as a customer's name is on it.  He also said that ASV has been bought up by Yanmar.  

Yes the HD is for mulching. The independent bogies are rubber. The open design is setup to kick debris and stuff out. They can get chewed up and still function the same no problem 

[YellowHammer]

As @Walnut Beast  says

ASV has a two-year prorated warranty on their tracks, and also a 2 year derailment and reinstallation warranty which I haven't seen a comparable warranty on any other machine. This is their warranty on tracks below.  Otherwise they have a 2 year bumper to bumper, and sell a 5 year warranty.  I'm going to look and investigate the warranties on the other machines. 

From ASV: In the event of a track derailment, whether as a result of a defective part or component failure, or derailment in the course of normal use of the loader, ASV Holdings, Inc. shall provide reinstallation and repair in accordance with ASV's Limited New Product Warranty statement. In addition, ASV shall provide on-site repair within a 50 mile distance or 1 hour drive time, each way (whichever occurs first) from authorized ASV dealer. 

Otherwise, I can't really use a wheeled skid steer on my slopes, they are steep enough where my 4wd tractor, my four wheeler and zero turn tires just spin going up.  I need a set of tracks.  I have seen dozers all over these slopes, they were used to build the roads and dam, all day long, but I don't have a dozer and nothing wheels can climb them.  

[Walnut Beast]

So when you this say more expensive to operate, I guess when the tracks wear out at 1,000 hours the undercarriage needs replacing also?    

A lot depends on track wear if you do three point turns turning or doing cookies and what material your on. Warranty is 2 years 2000 hours everything 

[Gary_C]

Back in January I bought a 2016 JCB 300 skid steer with about 450 hrs. and just love it. I've not previously wanted a skid steer because of the problems of getting in and out of them with two repaired knees. I first saw the JCB with the side door some years ago at a pulp mill (it was a rental used for cleaning out frozen chips from chip trailers), got in it and decided it was the only type of skid steer I would buy. I talked to a lot of skid steer owners and the only downside I heard (other than scarcity  of local service) was that single arm loader would bend. However I talked to the dealer and he said they had never had one bend and anyway they had a lifetime guarantee on the arm against bending.

It has I believe a 74 HP engine that is actually de-rated to stay under the 75 HP cut off for needing the DEF system. That's all the power I'll ever need and it's rated lift is 3000 lbs which is supposed to be half the tipping load. It weighs close to 10,000 lbs. The disadvantage is I cannot put tracks on because it would block the door from opening on the left side but I did buy a set of chains for the rear tires for pushing snow this winter.

JCB does have a tracked model but what I would really like to have is their Teleskid with an extendable boom which is really nice for loading and unloading trailers, but those are a bit too pricey for what I need right now. The JCB has the most room in the cab of any skid steers I've tried.  

PS: I look around for available units and found 1) there are few available right now and 2) the price for used ones like mine has gone up about $15K from last winter.
Some good information on use of a Teleskid.
Did We Buy the JCB Teleskid?

[mike_belben]

I got to look real hard in person at how the robot booms were built one time years back and was impressed.  I doubt theyre a weakness.  Flopping a conventional bobcat will easily bend the boom.  Mine is. Dont dare pull the pin to fix a grease zerk. 

[Bruno of NH]

That's a bunch of bull on bending one of the jcb arms
They have made Loadalls for years with the same type set up. 
I put my money on a standard skid steer type arms bend first.
They must have a Patten on it or everyone else would be doing it. And they know if they could build them that way they would.

[jimbarry]

Cat MTL 257B2 earns its keep every single day.