Sawing With My Wife and Not Arguing

[YellowHammer]

I made this video of my wife and I sawing up a few logs.  I’m not sure how many others sawmill with their significant other, but here’s how we do it.  

[Walnut Beast]

Great video! You better take care of your helper with a Hawaii vacation since she is always working hard!!!. Great example of being efficient in every aspect and teamwork! Well done 👍 

[doc henderson]

my wife will come out and say hi, but then goes back in the house.  Probably for the best.  Nice video.  

[randy d]

My wife is my partner I saw a log and she is the tail gunner then she will saw the next log and i am the tail gunner.

[thecfarm]

Yes, you need to know what the other one is doing or going to do.
Good sawing too!!

[jpassardi]

Robert,
I caught this on Youtube last night. I got a smile out of the title. 

[Magicman]

Very nice video. 

I agree about the work shirts.  I only wear 100% Cotton T shirts in the Summer.

PatD and I are 50-50 in the sawmilling business.  I makes it and she spends it.   

[Ed_K]

 Since I got sick Rita has done all the sawing that needed done. She's getting pretty good at it but doesn't like the scale I modded on the mill. She found a better one at Runnings that I'll put on when we move the mill down to the sugar house ( it's closer to the house ).

[Peter Drouin]

Does she run the saw too? Or just the bull work?

[WV Sawmiller]

   I think mine is like Doc and MMs wife. She has no desire to be around the heat, loud noises or lift heavy wood and can't see any reason to get covered in sawdust. You better keep her.

   One thing surprised me  watching you sawing and that was the fact you lower the loading arms all the way as soon as the log is on the mill. I was always warned/taught to leave the arms partially raised in case a log rolled back. I always do that at least with the first couple of faces.

   Of course there are big differences since I am sawing mobile and use the arms to hold flitches to be edged and you have other support equipment to do that. 

   Do you ever have a log kick back and roll backwards on the first cut or two?

[Resonator]

"I'm not arguing. I'm explaining why I'm right, using a loud voice." - (old saying).

Knowing the optimum blade speed by the sound it makes reminds me of the old assembly line maintenance guys. They could walk through a factory and just listen for machines that were "out of tune" or rhythm, and know exactly what to adjust. 
PBS did a piece on one of the production sawmills near me, the workers had developed their own language using only hand signals. They could communicate and relay messages across the factory, never having to yell over the noise. One of their signals (I think it was for the number eight) could start a fight if you didn't know what it meant.

[Magicman]

 

 
PatD and Kelly offloading while redbeard saws and I watch. 

[boonesyard]

My wife Gen and I saw together all the time, couldn't or wouldn't do it without her. She does the off bearing, stickering and most of the stacking. One of the hardest workers I know. We've got a great rhythm that works well. Like anything else, not perfect all the time, but mostly. Pretty easy to not argue when everything goes smooth  .  

[wisconsitom]

@Resonator, indeed, the mill you speak of, where workers developed their own sign language, is the MTE-Menominee Tribal Enterprises mill just east of your area, in Neopit, on the reservation.

[moosehunter]

My bride helping with the sawing!
Now to be honest, she does help. If I need to buy something for the mill she is more than willing to help me spend the $$.
She also washes my sawdust riddled clothing.
Not in anyway complaining about the help she does give me but thought of her helping with the labor makes me laugh out loud!!
mh

[mudfarmer]

At the circle mill the sawyer and I naturally developed pretty good sign language skills while running the head saw and the edger. It is a very rapid and understandable way to communicate quickly rather than shout back and forth a million times. Figured that others developed similar schemes but never looked into it.

Trying to think of some of the signs:

thick
thin
tapered
trapezoid
edger pile (with variations for nuance)
lumber pile (with variations for nuance)
slab pile (with variations)
"shorts" pile
dust conveyor not running
dust conveyor not starting
shut down - non emergency
shut down - oh $%!^
flip cant/flitch back on the carriage
chainsaw
Wow that's nice
This log is junk
log deck start/stop/reverse
Somethin Ain't Right But I Don't Know What
BREAK TIME

etc etc

[YellowHammer]

Yeah, Martha is a keeper, she can run any piece of equipment we have, some better than I can, work most two guys into the ground, and do it year after year for decades.  Sometimes she will give me "hand signals" when I'm about to make a bad cut or miss a drop, but she isn't a fan of operating the LT-70 at all, with the joysticks, she says it's laid out "wrong" (I agree to some extent).  On the other hand, she won't even hardly let me touch the SLR, that's hers, and if we ever get divorced, she will keep the forklift for herself.  She won't hesitate to run the SLR or edger for a whole day, and do it again the next.  Her dad was a long time woodworker, and Martha can run a nail gun with the best of them.  We both team up on the planing, and she stocks all the shelves with thousands of pounds of wood a week.  As she says, the showroom and building is "hers" and the "sawmill" is mine.  Don't forget, we used to build houses so she can build cabinets and lay tile with the best of them.  

As you noticed, I always drop the loader arms to the ground, I've had too many logs roll off the mill deck over the years, especially doing reverse roll sawing, and used to keep the mill arms up to catch them, but never again.  I almost flipped the mill when a monster rolled off and was "caught"  by the raised lower arms, and another bent the poop out of my loader arms.  So instead, I use the crossties which are taller than the fully dropped loader arms, and angled down back to the mill.  So when log rolls off, and it occasionally does, it simply flops on top of the crossties, and I raise the loader arms again and throw it back on.  The mill never even shakes or can be damaged in any way.  The crossties take the impact of the log rolling off, not the mill.  I had one roll off the other day while I was filming and made mention that it took "maybe 15 seconds to get back to sawing" vs calling WM and ordering and replacing the loader arms.  Been there done that.

 

   

[Larry]

Another great video!   My mill is usually set up the same way with the roller tables.  Even on the rare occasion when I'm away from home I'll take my short tables.  I really like the idea of help being in the safe zone as you describe it.

I did notice one thing.  The cant hook laying on the ground so Martha had to bend over and pick it up for every log.  That gets old for me.  Somebody said "Take steps to save steps".

[YellowHammer]

You and me both.  I saw her do that, time after time, and to my credit, I didn't say a word, even though it was driving me crazy.  A classic violation of the "Steps" rule! 

However, I used my best "husband" judgment, and didn't say anything, or I would have surely gotten some "sign language" and thought in order to keep the video title accurate, it was best left unsaid.   

[KenMac]

My wife knows I have a mill and knows where it's located, but hardly ever puts eyes on it and I'm better off that way for sure. Her task is the banking end and paying sales taxes. You're a lucky man, Robert.

[Peter Drouin]

Take a piece of log 6" tall setting on it's end. And you can stick the pv in it and not bend over. The point will go into the wood and stand there.
Better than trying to stick it in the ground. 

[OlJarhead]

My wife does the video when she is there and also helps a bit...but it's. it her thing

[Ventryjr]

My wife does the video when she is there and also helps a bit...but it's. it her thing

Oljarhead.  Where do you post your videos?  
My wife comes and watches me/reads a book.  She gets concerned I’m going to die when I work alone. 

[OlJarhead]

I sometimes post them in my milling thread but always post them on YouTube (you can see the link in my profile or find me there "The Old Jarhead".).

I used to post a lot of pics but eventually moved to video.  One of my customers call it my "Sawdust Roadshow"  as like MM I only mill remote.

[YellowHammer]

It's hard for me to get Martha involved when I'm filming, she thinks it's a total waste of time and when I pull the cameras out, and she heads the other direction knowing things are about to slow down about 10X.

She says "Call me when you're ready" and she goes to work doing something productive while I play with the GoPros.  They actually take time to set up, put the cards in, new batteries, check the microphones, check the shots, and hook the power to them.  The GoPros are actually frustrating to use, especially the GoPro10 which has some design issues, one of which is that it will overheat and shut down in the worst moment, losing the shots.  They've tried to make some changes, including designing a brand new battery for it, but it still shuts down, or doesn't save the file correctly, and I never know if I've got the shot until I get into the house.  I have lost more than one series of videos due to this.  More than once I've wanted to throw them into the burn pit.

Then you have to get into the editing part, some people don't do it, but I spend a decent amount of time on it, several hours, on each 8 to 10 minute video.  Generally, for a quality video to TV show, the scene or shot should change every 4 to 6 seconds, so with a 10 minute video, there are maybe 6 to 8 shots a minute, so 60 to 80 shots or cuts per video, plus the audio, plus the titles and stuff.  I figure I want to make them so my kids aren't embarrassed to watch them, and maybe my grandkids will see what Grandpa used to do.

Then, there is the money, or lack of it.  It's a totally non profit thing, at least with the number of subscribers I have, as I make about $70 per month, which come out to about working for free, especially considering that filming lowers production significantly, and I lose that every time I pull the cameras out.  To put it in perspective, filming doesn't make money, it costs money.  So I'm not really sure why I do it.

Old Jarheads got some nice videos, I watch them.

[OlJarhead]

How true!  I'm not monetized yet (close at 915 subscribers and well over the 4000 watch hours with over 6000 - and thanks for the sub by the way!) so I really am doing it for free!

I'm a geek though, so it's kinda in line with what I've done since 1979 (play with computers in one fashion or another) but you are 100% correct!

I spend hours editing though 8 minute videos I can usually do in about 4hrs the longer ones always take about twice that easily!  I'm an early riser though so am usually on my PC at 5am working on a new video.  I'm trying to put out 3 a week right now (to build the channel and learn more) so it's basically replaced my job in telecom  but I'm the boss so there is that

I use two GoPro's myself and the 9 shut down on me in the sun early on though I think they fixed that for the most part, the 10 seems to do ok and I have the Media Mod on it so that might help.  What I do is different in that I rarely set up a video.  Mine are truly (for the most part -- probably 99%) on the fly, raw milling that I edit into something I think folks might want to see (I hope anyway ).  What I do is set up the GP10 as my main focus camera from a wider angle to catch everything and then the GP9 is my up close (r) camera that I try to capture the band and debarker with.  The 9 I move around and you can see that when I cut to it.  I try to keep the view moving between 3 and 10 seconds which takes a TON of editing!  (By the way I use DaVinci 18 these days which I really like and it's free! but you can also buy it to get more features though I use the free version).  Editing and adding voice overs and music is the challenge   Trying to keep folks interested while I mill down a log of several of them.  My focus has been on real world milling in remote places and one of the things I want to do in the near future is video others milling (so if you are near me and want to be featured on YT -- which is good for your business  -- I might be willing to come out and do a video on your operation -- but YH you are too far for me yet! ha!)...

I try to change batteries on breaks and customers are ok with that (since I'm not billing then) but they die and I lose video...nothing more frustrating than milling up something crazy and finding out later (much later) I didn't get the video!  GRRRR or just part of it!  I've had to scrap video because I didn't capture it all!  Frustrating!

YouTube is also a challenge as it never really makes much sense.  I often think "This video is going to be great!!!" and then it gets a couple hundred views and goes no where! Then I put out a video and think "substandard!" and it gets 3000 views and I'm left scratching my head!  -- that's why I tend to ask folks to comment and let me know what they think so I can get an idea of what folks want to see so I can make more engaging video!  I had one I thought would be awesome with a six year old running my hydraulics (he just wanted to) and it did great for the first few hours and then died....strange.

So ya, it's a constant learning curve and takes a lot of time but I do enjoy it (maybe as much as milling even!)....and I like to show what I call "the real world of milling" with all my goofs and logs that suck

I also watch others videos because I learn!  Specially yours!  I watched the cherry log video and thought "wow, I hadn't thought of that!".  Much like FF I learn from others and find YT a good way to do that....

And I love to harass the Yoga Pant wearing sawmill video makers! ha!  In the end, I always hope something I show helps others -- specially when I goof up or do something that seems impossible!  (like LogZilla)

Anyway, you are spot on!  It takes a lot of effort and that's why I appreciate it when folks watch and let me know what they think   That's how I get paid!  I don't see YT as a way to make a lot of money (like part time milling) but I do see that it can add to the overall income stream if it's figured out.

[YellowHammer]

I also get aggravated with some of the other sawmill videos where the pretty young ladies are strutting around in Spandex and getting a million views while they fumble around and butcher up a log.  

However, I just don't have the "equipment" they do, so I guess I'll never be big on the Tube.  However, maybe one of these days I'll put on some spandex tights and do a video.  Maybe not though, because everybody would be throwing up on their computers, and I wouldn't want that to happen.

[GAB]

Mr. Milton:
What oh what do you have against spandex?
On the right geometric shape it will accent it.
You wrote: "Sawing With My Wife and Not Arguing"
You and I both know that if you take your hearing aids out the only thing to read will be frowny faces.
Now if she puts her hands on her hips and has a frowny face, then yous in trouble.
GAB

[jpassardi]

Robert,
As much as we all appreciate your technical input, I think I speak for all when I say we'll take a hard pass on you in spandex... 
The white shirt is just fine.

[YellowHammer]

 

[Old Greenhorn]

Well I would rate the vision I have of what your spandex video would look like right up there with MM injury photos. (I understand he is in contract discussions with a medical college to use his photos in one of their trauma training manuals.)
 But personal opinions aside (beauty is in the eye of the beholder afterall), one needs to look at this from a business perspective. Would the 'spandex video' cause your viewership to go up or down? That is the question you need to ask. If it turns out you have one of those rockhard bodies that some folks find attractive, perhaps it would work. Maybe you should leave the t-shirt off completely and throw on some spray tan? Just keep in mind, the crowd you attract may not exactly resemble your target demographic. 
YMMV
 For myself, I will keep an open mind. We are all learning and I think you may have some stuff to teach on this issue also.  Throw on that speedo and let us see how it goes.

[OlJarhead]

No please don't! you don't and I won't;)

[YellowHammer]

Oh wow, I just about blew cookies when I read about the speedo thing!  Don't worry, I wouldn't subject the Internet to such a sight.  I might break it.

[thecfarm]

I know what you guys mean about editing videos. My wife has a youtube channel.
All you guys are doing a great job!!!!!!
I have one too, but I tell her, just load it up, no editing, nothing.
I only wish I would have started my channel sooner. I have done so much on The Farm with removing rocks and claiming back pasture, that no one can understand how it looked before all of the work that I have done.
I did a big project on our garden. Hauled in a lot of dirt, one bucket full at a time. Probably 2 years of hauling. Have 2 more sides to do.
And the list goes on.

[caveman]

Jarhead and Yellowhammer, just saying, as humorous as it would likely be, if y'all start producing videos of yourselves sawing while dressed in speedos, spandex or yoga pants I'm going to have to quit watching.  I'm sure your wives consider you both to be incredible examples of the male human form but that is not exactly what I want to watch - some things can't be unseen.  Thank you both for taking time to film and produce the videos.

I have considered making some parody safety videos using fake body parts, mannequins and a lot of red stuff but I have zero computer or video skills.

As to sawing with my wife and not arguing.  She has never offloaded a board.  My daughters will sometimes help if I get in a pinch.  My wife does a good job of scolding me if I enter the house soaking wet with sawdust stuck to me.  I have a good shower in my shop which gets used several days a week.  She is very good about ensuring John and I have plenty of leftovers to eat every Saturday when we come in for lunch (unlike a lot of you, we don't do this every day).  Another positive about my wife is that she does not really question or complain when we spend money on the sawmill related stuff. 

[YellowHammer]

So the votes are in, I guess I will have to return my Spandex and Speedo to the store.

The funny thing is that no matter how many videos I make, the customers who watches them and come in to shop always know my dog's name, Chip.  They don't know who I am, but they know him.  Typically, the conversation goes like this:  

Customer: "Do you work here?"

Me: "Yeah, I'm the owner."

Customer: "I like watching the dog, Chip, on the videos.  Is he around?"

Ha, the dog is more famous than I am.  I wonder how he would look in a Speedo?

 

[OlJarhead]

it's too early out on this coast to spit coffee out all over the place! 

Honestly, if I put a speedo on the police would immediately arrest me and goog would ban my channel and make every attempt to recover from the massive damage it would cause...you'd all also need to get new computers. 

Now my wifes boss, who runs Angry Gnome Gunworks (or something like that) and whom looks just like a little angry gnome, loves Borat and says he has a Borat swim suit (whatever that is) and his rather larger brother-in-law who my wife also works with, tells me he has these shorts called 'Daisy Dukes' (do they have flowers on them?) and they both tell me they'd run the sawmill for my YT channel....maybe if I don't hit 1000 subscribers this month I'll take them up on it   After all, all the channels with yoga pant and butts have like, a million views!

All kidding aside, Chip is the star of the show, just sayin

On a seriouser (is that a word) side...my wife HATES it when I come in from the shop covered in sawdust!  Good thing we have a garage that she LETS me change in....it goes something like "take those clothes off RIGHT THERE" and not for any exciting reason   Nope, just picture an angry woman with a rolling pin tapping her hand and stomping behind you to ensure you get yer butt in the shower ASAP and not track sawdust (or allow it to fall of your head and anywhere else it's found itself) into HER home....only once you've showered and are dressed in nice clean clothes might she ask how the sawing went  But she's got food and bourbon thirty covered

[WDH]

This is a rare video Robert.  Very rare.  It might end up in the Smithsonian.  99.999999% of the time, when someone sets out to make a video of Sawing With My Wife and Not Arguing, it turns out to be be a video of Sawing With My Wife and Arguing  .

[terrifictimbersllc]

Two things. Daisy Dukes shorts is not YH in Speedo’s or spandex. Look them up if you doubt this.

Any arguing situation with one’s helper, if any, is made even better if both have earmuffs on.

[doc henderson]

Borats suit is called a "mankiny".




Daisy Duke



sorry, but you cannot unsee this, you asked.  

[WV Sawmiller]

   Calling all Admins - Help!!!

   Please remove the first photo in the previous post before someone gets hurt.

[Andries]

. . . and leave the second photo right where it is. 😁

[aigheadish]

I feel a bit like a broken record, as I've suggested similarly for Jeff (and my wife!), I think, and I don't make videos for the internet, but YellowHammer have you considered slightly late model phones for recording rather than GoPros? I have a Samsung that takes incredible video, is comparatively inexpensive, easy to set up and monitor, and unload stuff from. I would think a few of Note 10s (250ish bucks each) may make the experience a bit better and I'm pretty sure they'll shoot 4k and have some sort of "pro mode" if you like to play around with stuff. No cell service is needed and you can still hook them into your wifi to transmit data (though probably slowly). 

I bought a GoPro when they were still pretty new, so I don't know their capabilities, really, now, but I struggled with using it effectively for anything, thus it's sat in a drawer for the past many years. I know a lot of people use them so it's certainly possible I'm missing a lot. 

I watched one of the spandex clad videos of the sort I assume you are speaking of and though I don't know much about sawmilling, other than what I read here, it's amazing the amount of stuff she's doing that doesn't look right. The funding for that operation seems pretty high as well. Corporate sponsorship is likely a blessing but probably also a curse. 

[beenthere]

have you considered slightly late model phones for recording rather than GoPros?

Yes, briefly. But went back to the GoPro's. 
Have you tried the phones and like them better than your GoPro? 

Seems the trick is learning the video-making software as some are very powerful, but takes a lot of intense learning to do the proper amount of editing. 

Now make videos for my records and family from my trail cam videos. Soon as I found a good, easy software to learn, the new computer system wouldn't allow it. Frustrating, as now seems the better ones are not free anymore. Understandable, but not excited about it. 

[GAB]

  Calling all Admins - Help!!!

   Please remove the first photo in the previous post before someone gets hurt.

I do not recall who said it, part of a song concerning a streaker, "Don't look Ethyl, Too late she had a free show"
GAB

[Jeff]

The camera in my Galaxy 22 ultra is pretty amazing. I did a video for our anniversary holding it in a very bouncy side by side, and some walking, and it's better than the sony in a gimbal, WHICH I HATE.

One thing about video editing, I can hide the brain farts, and time lapse can make a guy look energetic.

[WV Sawmiller]

GAB,

   That was Ray Stevens.

[RichTired]

Ray Steven's 

[YellowHammer]

The mankinni photo was hilarious and disturbing at the same time!  

I had not seen that before.  I had seen the Daisy Dukes, we still have them here in the south, and they always cause me to hurt my neck.

I have tried my cell phone, as a matter of fact I did the T shirt rant with it, but for some reason, although the video recording is very good, the audio is terrible.  The iPhone always picks up the slightest background noise, such as the hum of my kilns, and amplifies it to be noticeable and aggravating.  It also produces a weird echo, almost like it's multiple microphones are out of sync, and it really is noticeable when I'm editing.  So it takes more editing work to get good audio out of it.  If somebody knows some better settings for it, I would love to know what they are,

The GoPros have a very good image stabilization, and allow the use of a very high quality wireless microphone.  I use the one race car and stage performers use, it's called the Garth Mic.  It works very well with the GoPro, which is unfortunate, as I don't like the GoPro.

Some people have suggested I break down and buy a "real" camera, which can use all the features I want and still be reliable.  I just haven't wanted to spend the cash for it.

I use Final Cut Pro, it's pretty easy to use and has incredible capability.  

    

[aigheadish]

beenthere- I don't have enough experience beyond knowing that I've shot some amazing video with the phone, but it's just like stuff on vacation or whatever. I was messing around with some editing software, not nearly as good or capable as Final Cut, and it was free, but I don't remember what it was. I don't have the patience for editing video but the one time I helped my son with a project it was kind of fun. 

I didn't consider audio and I definitely understand that could be an issue. I know there are good audio recorders out there but the work flow would likely slow down as you'd need to sync up the audio to the video, which I assume is done relatively easily with your current setup. I would think they make some decent audio isolating bluetooth mics that would tie in directly to the phone but I don't know and some people are very specific about their audio quality needs and I'd assume there are some artifacts that would appear with all the equipment you are running that may be tough to isolate out. 

Real cameras would be sweet but if you've got several GoPros in action at once you are likely quickly into the $5k plus range for a handful of them. 

[YellowHammer]

Audio is pretty aggravating, and I've ruined a few videos due to it because most of the time, there is either a lot of background noise and it's very difficult to talk, or it's very quiet, and the mics pick up the slightest noise.  It's really hard to talk and try to explain something when the sawmill is roaring, or the loading is operating or the dust collector and planer are running.

I've even had issues where the audio sounds good on a laptop but then becomes unintelligible when played on a TV.  

I'm definitely still trying to figure the whole thing out, especially in the summer, when it stays daylight for so long, and my editing time has dropped because I need to be working.    

[aigheadish]

I'm not saying this to be a jerk.... Have you investigated solutions or are you just trial and erroring with the audio? 

I ask because I socially network with some folks that may have a lot of audio expertise and I can ask for suggestions, but I don't want to step on your investigatory toes. The best quality you'll get will undoubtedly be a standalone recording device but it really depends on what you want to put into the whole endeavor.

Also, kind of a weird question but do you know about cell phone interference? I've podcasted, in the past, and have heard other podcasts that have very strange, seemingly random, terrible noise artifacts and it turns out a lot of times it appears (audibly) when a text is received or other stuff like that. I never messed with wireless mics, so I'm not sure the same interference exists, but if that is a semi-regular problem you may want to leave the cell phone off or elsewhere. 

[aigheadish]

Ha, welp, whether you wanted a bunch of info or not, I went ahead and asked my crew as I think it's an interesting question. 

I've got many responses, from doing  post production audio to setting up a separate mic to pick up the ambient noise to help remove it post-production style to a few other options. I'm on mobile now and have somewhere to be soon but I'll share the info I've got sometime I the near future. 

[OlJarhead]

I typed up a response...thought I posted it...came back later and it was gone...hmmm...goofed I guess!

Anyway, in a nutshell I found the GP10 with the media mod works great for sound and I can dial it down as needed.  I use DaVinci Resolve to edit (free version) pictured here:


 
It allows multiple audio streams which makes it easy to match up clips in the editing process and allows changing the volume in each stream/each clip as needed with lots of powerful tools (now you know my editing secret )...

I use two GoPro's and find they work well on 1080p and run 2hrs on a battery if I turn off the wifi.  I also use 256gig sim cards for them so they can record all day.  I just change the batteries every 2hrs on a break.

Now, editing two 8+ hour streams of video into shorter videos for YT....I'm running out of hair!

[btulloh]

 

 

This seems to be on topic . . .

[YellowHammer]

I've got no toes to step on, I will take any knowledge I can get!  

Right now, the best audio I'm getting is with a GoPro Media Mod and a Sennheiser omni directional microphone into a Rode 2 wireless mic, which has very smooth background noise reduction.  I record at a low level, then bring the level up in the editing software.  That seems to provide the best audio.  The next is without the media mod on the GoPro using it's internal mic, but it doesn't sound good when I'm 10 feet form the  camera.

I record everything at 4K.  

The worst is the iPhone with its internal mics.  I don't understand it because the iPhone has incredible noise reduction capability when I'm one the phone talking to someone, they say they can barely hear any background machine noises.  However, when I switch to record video, all the background noise comes back in, and echoes.  It sounds terrible.

I had looked at a separate microphone to pick up audio, but that's just one more thing or three to deal with and sync up, so dropped it.

Final Cut Pro is a pretty good program, and I bought Izotope Noise Reduction plugin to help even more.   

[OlJarhead]

I also have a mic I can hook up to the camera (Lavalier type) but the sawmill is just so noisy I don't use it for that.  Just voice over instead which seems to work for me

You're videos are good!  I enjoy them and often learn something from them -- and that brush munching machine is awesome by the way!  WOW!

[aigheadish]

Well shucks. It sounds like you've got great gear. 

[YellowHammer]

But it complicated to set all this stuff up.

I'd like to just whip out the iPhone and take some "easy" videos.  Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm wondering why the iPhone disables the background noise canceling feature when it's recording video.  If I could turn that back on or even adjust it, that may be the key.  I need to do some Googling.... 

[btulloh]

Location sound recording is a deep and complex subject. It’s very difficult to do it in a sawmill situation because the machines are loudest thing in the shot.  The iphone noise canceling is based on phase cancellation of late arriving sound which is also substantially lower than the close proximity of a person talking on the phone. Filming negates that difference, so it’s more difficult or impossible to differentiate between the desired audio and the undesired audio.  The only real solution, and it gets to be time consuming, is to have a person wired with a clip on so the talker is close-mic’d relative to the background noise. Even then it’s challenging with noisy machines running. 

The easiest fix is to shoot without live narration and then add a voice over later.  At first glance it seems like this is what Oljarhead is doing and it works well in his videos . It may seem like an extra step, but in the long run it’s quicker and makes for a better result.  

I’m kinda surprised that Y-hammer is using omni on his mic setup. That’s actually asking for more background noise, but . . . 

Gopros - they’re a pain in the butt log to manage on a shoot for sure. In a production situation,even a pretty low-budget one, there will be a camera grip whose sole responsibility is tending gopro batteries and memory cards. With a few gopros running, there’s always the possibility of running out of battery or memory on a gopro and it usually happens at the worst time. 

Shooting and editing is hard and time consuming.  I salute all of you doing these videos. It’s not easy and y’all are ending up with good results.  This video stuff is another rabbit hole. Like sawmilling. 

[aigheadish]

I agree with btulloh.

If you are interested YH, I've got a guy who offered to mess around with post production for you. He also said it sounds like your setup is good and you shouldn't have the issues you are having. Though he also said what btulloh said, narrate after the fact. Let me know and I'll figure out a way to connect you guys. He also said he's got a lot of equipment he'd loan you if you want to try some stuff out, but that was before he knew what you were running a/v wise. 

[OlJarhead]

I film in 1080p because the quality is still HD and allows a lot more footage in the sim.  Basically I can't plan my videos because of the nature of what I do.  Just gotta make what the customer wants and figure out what to make from it afterwards 

[aigheadish]

Here's the comment made and he did watch at least some of your videos:

he is saturating his mic
easy fix
it can only be in 3 places:
-speaking too loud into the mic (unlikely)
-mic is too loud for the recorder (less likely)
-distorting it in post (more likely)
experimentation is in order


Don't know if that'll help or not and as mentioned above let me know if you want him to mess around with a clip. I got probably 6 or 7 different responses to my question about it and his was the best.

[YellowHammer]

Great feedback (pun intended!)

I'll try to answer some of the questions, because yes, I certainly appreciate the help.

The omni directional mic was recommended to me from the guy who sold me the Sennheiser mic at the audio store.  He said I was moving my head too much from side to side when I talked, trying to show the lumber equipment, so he said a directional mic would clip out my voice when I turned my head out of the directional cone.  So he recommend this omni directional mic with an over the ear wire mount with a close mouth location and it does have good noise reduction, but I don't really like wearing it.  So I don't use it unless I'm in a high noise environment, like when driving the skid steer or when I'm running the sawmill, and it does a pretty good job of picking up my voice and removing background noise.  However, you are right, I'm saturating during editing, so I can try to be better about that.

Here is a link to a raw iPhone video I took on the last video.  It's unedited so forget the dialog making sense, because well, I'm not a pro.  However, you can hear a fairly loud and distinctive background hum that is only from the kilns, several hundred feet away, and hardly noticeable to my naked ear, but comes across highly amplified in the raw iPhone audio.  So the question is why is the hum being amplified so that I have to remove it in editing, when it isn't even noticeable in real life?  I have turned all other machinery off, I literally cannot make the background any quieter, and I can still hear the background hum form the kilns.  Interestingly enough, when using the Rode 2 with the GoPro Media Mod, the raw video has almost no background noise at all, even if I record any the exact same location.

The other thing with the raw iPhone recording is my voice has a very odd harmonic or unnatural sound to it, and even is the wrong pitch.  It doesn't have any "depth" and this is very apparent when I use it on back to back or sequential tracks with the better quality Rode2 audio on sequential cuts.  I can' figure out using the editing tools in FCP how to make my voice sound like "my voice."  I mean it's ok for phone calls, and stuff like that but it clearly is not in the same audio quality as the Rode2, so I just don't use the iPhone as much as I like.  Even though the video is very good, the audio isn't.

[aigheadish]

I'm going to be a real turd here.

Your audio is kicka$$. There's noise because you and Martha are making progress. I think there may be an unnatural quietness if you're trying to get rid of the hum and noise back there. Back in my podcasting says we did a lot of long form "street" recording (for lack of better thing to call it) and yeah, there's some distraction in the background noise but once you are accustomed to hearing it it makes a much better atmosphere.

That being said I'll direct my people to this conversation and we'll see what's up.

Even though it's likely unrealistic that I'll ever be a sawmiller you and your shop are an inspiration. It's really neat to see what y'all do.

[customsawyer]

I thought that audio was pretty good for just being shot with the Iphone. Please keep in mind my level of knowledge "or lack there of" about making videos.

[stanwelch]

I also thought the audio from this video was good. I didn’t hear any background fuzz and the volume can be easily adjusted on the device I’m using. Having met you and Martha at Jake’s makes watching your videos that more enjoyable. Keep up the good work and don’t sweat the small stuff. 

[terrifictimbersllc]

I thought it was pretty good too. I needed to turn up the volume a little louder than usual in order to hear the hum.

What do you use to hold your iPhone?

[thecfarm]

My hearing is not the best.
But I did not hear anything but you talking. 
I could hear you very clear.

[YellowHammer]

I appreciate the help and compliments.  Maybe I'm over working this stuff.  It reminds me of a quote that has proven so true over the years when I asked an old timer concrete finisher what was the most common mistake he sees newbies doing wrong when working with concrete.  He said "They keep playing with it, and won't just leave it alone."

What do you use to hold your iPhone?

Well, it's pretty high tech.  For that shot, I drove a couple nails into a wooden post and used it to hold up the phone.    

Around the mill, I've put in a several shelves, and use two cameras at once with power from a wall outlet so don't have to mess with batteries.  I just turn them on and let them run and then use the GP-10 and Rode mic for the "money" shots and other narrative shots.  Then I clean up the storyline holes I have missed later with the iPhone, sometimes days later, when I start editing the video and say "that part looks stupid, I need to shoot that again."

Final Cut Pro will automatically sort, stitch and synch all the cameras into one multi camera clip based on the audio tracks from each camera video.  It analyzes the waveforms from the audio of each camera, sorts and matches them to a master waveforms from one camera that must run uninterrupted, then all the clips are overlaid and timed perfectly on top of each other.  Most times....not always.  So then I just pick which camera shot in the FCP editor I want and it stitches that into the main timeline without me having to sync the audio up.  It is a huge timesaver when working with multiple clips and cameras.  It's called a "multi clip" and one of the reason I went with Final Cut Pro, but I'm sure most of the other video editors will do the same thing.  

[Sod saw]

.

This note is for YH as well as all of you who take the time to share their experiences with the rest of us thru the magic of video.

In one of my former lives,  I have helped build radio stations, recording studios, and owned and operated a recording studio.  (I know nothing about video.). My recording studio was in a converted mobil home for on location live radio, TV, and recordings for conventions and/or musical concerts, as well as record albums.

We have friends who have produced the audio for some of those major TV award shows as well as live concert celebrations on national TV.

I say this not to brag or talk about me, but, to emphasize how picky I am when I watch a movie in a theatre or  attend a live concert or watch a live concert on TV.  I sit there and criticize, to my self, how lousy the audio is during certain productions.

This note is meant to compliment all of you on the quality of your videos and how much I enjoy your efforts and successes in your productions.

They sound very good.  Your hard work and patience with the equipment shines through.  

As for loudness or softness of certain episodes or portions of any specific video. . .  Even high budget Hollywood type of movies have always had and continue to have places in each production where the audio may be too soft to hear the dialog or the music may be too loud in other portions of said film.

Producing on location is always more difficult than in a controlled studio where you can tell the noisy source to shut up, and try another take of that scene.  Learning the ins and outs of different mic polar patterns and noise canceling equipment while trying to learn about the video portion of the equipment along with trying to be the acting talent along with trying to produce an accurate cut on the log along with not hurting yourself or the equipment along with . . . . .  Then you get to take that raw footage into the studio and cut and splice and perhaps overdub some audio.    Oh, by the way, keep the dust from destroying the equipment.

That mason is not wrong.  It is easy to over produce, be too fussy.

Repeating myself,      I   "compliment all of you on the quality of your videos and how much I enjoy your efforts and successes in your productions."

My log processing has improved immensely as a direct result of your video productions.   Thank You all.



.

[YellowHammer]

That is very high praise, indeed, I really appreciate it.  I always try very hard to be good at what I do, but it’s difficult when I have no idea what I’m doing, and have never done it before.  I rely heavily on the feedback of others, and I take it all in.  As a friend once told me, when I ask a question it’s because I’m looking for an answer, and because I know I can do better but don’t know how.  I oversaturate, turn my head from the mic, trail off, or otherwise miss it.  I don't notice my mistake at the time, but when I watch the clips later, I see or hear it.    

However, what keeps me trying to improve my audio and video is just the plain experience of having people enjoy watching and listening to them.  It sounds silly, but just this last weekend, I had a slow minute at the showroom and turned on my Brushmonster video on my IPad, propped it up in the desk, leaned back, and started watching it. Before I knew it, several people stopped getting lumber and just started watching it also, and I even heard folks react when I was whacking trees and vaporizing stuff.  Even I enjoyed watching the video.  When it was over, one of the customers said, “That was a great video, when are you going to get one of those brush monster cutter things?”  He didn’t even know it was my video and my cutter!  He just enjoyed watching it.  To me, that was cool.  

One if my favorite shots was at Jake’s Project this last year.  The whole thing was fun, and I was walking around getting short videos snippets, but I knew the whole time it was just not happening.  My video was going nowhere.  It didn’t flow right, and I wasn’t getting the “feel” of the incredible planning and effort that Jake and Tammy had put into it, nor how tired I could see he was getting near the end.  He was putting everything into the the project, but I couldn’t capture it.  Then it happened.  It was the last night, Jake was wore out, I noticed he was even limping a little, and I commented to Martha that he was on empty but still going strong, carrying the ball to the goal line. We were all sitting around the bonfire, Jake was standing there, backlighted by the fire, looking away from me, and I just knew the “shot” was coming.  I didn’t know what, but I knew it.  So I quickly pulled out my IPhone, hit the record button and somehow, just at that moment, Jake turned around, looked at me, and raised his arms in the universal sign language of victory. Touchdown! Ballgame! He won. Everything had gone well, everybody was happy, and he’d done all he could do.  He was tired and it was over.  On the audio I could even be heard saying, “That’s it, that’s the shot.”

So I went home, enhanced the colors, brightened reds, adjusted the greens, and tried to make it look like how I saw it in my eye, and then, I had it.  So why would I go to all that trouble when I’m not a video guy?  I didn’t even know how to do color correction and hue enhancement with my software, but I knew I had to learn it to get it right.  The answer was this opportunity would never come again, and I wanted to make something that my friend would be proud to show his family and friends, and even years later, he could say “Hey that was me in the cowboy hat, that’s what I did, and I was pretty darn good.”  I even tried to make the opening screen look like a concert poster, like the Garth Brooks “Live” album cover or something.  

That’s why I’m doing these videos and trying to get better.  I want people who are interested in the subject to learn something and enjoy. I want my kids, maybe grandkids, and friends to be able to watch them years from now, and say “Hey, that’s Mom and Dad, they were pretty good at what they did.”

By the way, here is the video of customsawyer with the “Shot.”

[customsawyer]

Sod Saw I don't put in 5 percent of the effort that YH and others do in their videos. I admire all that they are doing but it isn't something that I enjoy. It does mean a lot to know that others appreciate what little videoing I do.
YH I just host the project. It's folks like yourself that pitch in at the drop of a hat and help that make it what it is. Even when you ran out of bullets cooking chicken you were still trying.

[WDH]

The chicken was very good.

[caveman]

Good job on the video, YH.  You captured everything just right except the raw weather.  I did not complain about the weather because, at the time, I welcomed the coolness but while Jake was cutting the 26' cypress log, most of us were in search of a leeward vantage point.  Thankfully Martha got a little fire started.

[OlJarhead]

Awesome!  Wish I could make one of these but it's just SO far away!  Over 3000 miles from me!

Very cool to see and great job on the video!

[YellowHammer]

Thanks,
For the folks that didn't know, I am not a chef, I eat mostly microwave and for various reasons, I "volunteered" to cook the chicken, a lot of them, like three or four shelves on a competition cooker that nobody had used before.  I got some great help, but I've not cooked more than 6 chickens at once.

What was funny was that other people noticed my lack of chefly talent, and Tammy hollered over the porch rail if I knew how long to cook them.  I figured I'd pull her leg a little and hollered back, "Sure, I know how to cook chicken, how hard could it be, they are done when most of the pink is gone.  

She spun on her heels and went back inside, and next thing you know she comes back out the door with not one, but two meat thermometers, stomps down the steps, put them on the table right in front of me, next to the grill, and said in her best Tammy voice "Use these and there better not be any pink in those chickens!"  Everybody, including her just started laughing when I just grinned at her when she realized I was funning with her.  Good times, and I'm glad nobody died from my cooking.

Of course, me accidentally setting the Kingsford charcoal bag on fire didn't inspire much confidence.    

[customsawyer]

Yes but chicken is like cookies in the kiln. "Don't burn the chicken".
I was referring to when we were all around the table putting the seasoning on the chicken. There was 3-6 of us depending on who you ask. Every time we thought we were done ole Danny would open another box of chicken. Finally we ran out of chicken and YH said that was good as he was almost out of bullets. To which he was shaking a empty bottle of seasoning in his hand. 

[WDH]

It was a whack of chicken.  These Forestry Forum types can eat.  If you make it to a Project, you will certainly eat well.