So I do logging and firewood and I've got my right wrist that's hurts pretty good from time to time I assume it's from runnin chainsaw all the time but who knows. So I've got a blockbuster 22-22 and it uses levers to control the hydraulic functions. My right hand stays on predominantly 2 levers all the time. Left hand is on splitter valve all the time. On the right hand levers one controls the saw/tip table and the other controls the Infeed trough. my question is id
Like to replace those 2 levers only with a 4 way joystick. I'm not mechanically inclined but there's a large and capable hydraulic shop real close by. Is this possible you guys think or have any of you guys done it? I think this would take a lot of the strain and pain away from my right wrist After 8 hours splitting wood. I'm thinkin if my memory is tight cord king uses that same joystick to control their saw and trough. The only difference is they have a direct drop and mine is offset with a tip table. But I don't think that matters
Thinking something like this?
https://summit-hydraulics.com/product/remote-valve-cable-control-joystick/
From Surplus Center
Surplus Center (https://www.surpluscenter.com/shop.axd/Search?keywords=joy+stick)
You are correct that with a joystick you will be able to control 2 functions with one lever. You can get a valve that has a joystick operator mounted directly on it where the joystick is attached directly to the valve spools, or you can get a joystick cable operator that shifts the valve spools by connecting them to the other end of the cable. The cable type usually are sold for a specific manufacturers valve because specific hardware is required to connect the cables to the spool. I would not recommend the cable type because they can be troublesome if dirt or moisture gets into the cable. Moisture is especially an issue in cold weather.
Thanks for the replies.
Yes that's what I have in mind thanks for the info about the cable ones I'll
Let the bud shop know that if they don't allready.
The valves themselves are on the outside of the cab and obviously the levers are inside the cab. So I'm not sure how they'll plumb it all up. Can the valves somehow stay on the outside of the cab so the cab stays cooler in the summer?
With the cable operated the valves can stay easily on the out side of the cab. Loaders of most cab farm tractors have cable operated joy sticks. Make sure they use a good quality valve. Your are going to be cycling it a bunch. Another option would be a electric control joy stick valve. A lot of newer equipment have electric control instead of manual or cable operated. Since your having hand issues I would look into electric control valves.
Like I said I'm no mechanic but a guy from the hydraulic shop stopped out today to look at the project and discuss possibilities. He thought about air operated joystick?? He said it Could be a good option because they're simple and also the machine allready has a little air compressor on it allready. And uses air to return cylinders. but he's gonna discuss with some of the other guys at the shop. He works at the shop but it's not exactly his domain. He said it's more up to the pumps department. But he lives close to me annd we know each other so he just stopped to take a look and get a rough idea and take pictures. Any thoughts from you guys?
Air controls and cold weather are not a good combination, unless you keep your air very dry. We ran many air cylinders and solenoids at the power plant, cold weather was always a challenge.
Scott B.
I would be worried about air/moisture freezing up in the winter but I guess if you already use air on the machine, and you don't have issues, that says something.
When you shift the valves now, do you always shift them fully, or do you ever partially shift it to get some metering of the function. If you do meter with it the pneumatic joystick will need to be "proportional". Otherwise if it's just an on/off signal to the valve, it will shift it fully and you will be going either full speed, or off. You won't have the ability to meter at all. Proportional pneumatic joysticks are not cheap.
I would go with a joystick right on the valve, or a cable operated joystick. In my past life I sold a lot of valves from Walvoil. They have joysticks that mount right on the valve, or cable versions also. You would probably be looking at their SD5 model valve.
You might try Surplus Center Hydraulics that carries a pretty good line of hydraulics components .It's my go to supplier on these items .Most times from the placement of the order it's about three days until you get it .A joy stick valve is not cheap .
Older backhoes have two functions on a stick by mounting the stick on a swivel and adding off set stubs to fasten the valves to, one above the pivot and one on the pivot. Or two valve rods connected to a plate that wobbles on a pivot point with handle.
All this to say it could be a welding / fab job instead of a hydraulic job.
watch at 17:00
New helper and looking into the valve controls on the backhoe - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuCIfVAOXSY)
watch at 6:40
Kubota Backhoe Maintenance: Adjusting the Control Linkages (#81) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITEL1OTOOug)
Another option would be to control one of the functions with your foot.
The only wobble stick I've ever used was a T- handle valve on a John Deere model 450 bull dozer .Being more familiar with a straight blade antique Cat D4 it took me a while to get onto it .The JD was fast hydraulics while the old Cat was as slow as an old arthritic snail .I have also ran into T handles on some skid loaders .It seems those can be very different depending who made them .Same with back hoes .
Yes I do meter the valves. Both of em actually. I've never had an issue with water in the air system yet. There's 2 valves on the bottom of the air tank and I drain em at the end of every day. Maybe an air operated joystick would be more sensitive to any moisture though? All the hydraulic cylinders return on air on that machine. Not sure why that is. Just the way they build em. Not sure if it's faster or what but I will tell you I love Havin air on the machine. Makes blowin out the radiator or any part of the machine super fast and easy. It's not as good as the air compressor in my shop but great for what it is. The only issue I've ever had with the air system is gettin a little hydraulic oil comin out of the drain valve when I drain at the end of the day. asked blockbuster about is cause it was that way when I bought it new. They say it's not a big deal or uncommon. Prolly just a little bypass on one of the cylinders. They say not to fool with it unless it gets worse. MYbe the oil in the system would be hard on the air operated joystick too? Cable operated would be the answer then if I wanted to keep the valve on the outside of the cab the way it is now then right? Remember I wanna keep it out of the cab to keep the cab cooler on the summer
Sounds like the air system works well. If moisture did become a problem, you could probably install a small inline air dryer ahead of the joystick.
Scott B.
If you use air, and you need to meter oil flow, as mentioned, you will need a proportional joystick. The joystick will provide a regulated air signal to shift the hydraulic valve. A low pressure signal shifts the valve a little and higher pressure shifts it more. The amount of pressure required between 0 and full shift of the valve is determined by the force of the centering springs on the hydraulic valve. The rate of that spring will determine the pressure range of the pneumatic joystick.
If I go with an air operated joystick will that consume much air? Not sure how much "extra air" I have available the compressor is small. Remember I use these 2 valves CONSTANTLY during processing.
Don't think you will be happy with air. Think fluidpowerpro answered the air application hassle.
Think you want some feather (meter) to your joysticks as you likely have and use with the existing control. Think you could "make it work" eventually, but will always be fussing with it. Doubt that is something you want to do.
Quote from: beenthere on January 22, 2023, 07:18:09 PM
Don't think you will be happy with air. Think fluidpowerpro answered the air application hassle.
Think you want some feather (meter) to your joysticks as you likely have and use with the existing control. Think you could "make it work" eventually, but will always be fussing with it. Doubt that is something you want to do.
Correct. Maintainance free or as free as possible is my goal. I make money splittin wood not workin on the machine
I called blockbuster yesterday and talked over the plan with tony (the guru). He wasn't familiar with the air operated joysticks but He said it sounded like a great plan as the hydraulics really don't "use" air. The air in the cylinders just transfers from cylinder to
Cylinder as it retracts. Air compressor only turns on when needed. So
Should be plenty of extra air. he said too
It may need little air dryer on it if nesessary. But after thinkin about that I rarely process wood when it's real cold out. Any dirt or mud on the logs is froze and trashes chains out sooo quick. Maybe the moisture in the system wouldn't be good for things even if freezing wasn't an issue though?
Just use the KISS on this and use the cable operated joy stick. Using a electronic or air operated joy stick is always going to be problems with something that sets out side. Got a buddy that's currently fighting issues on a JD tractor with a electronic joy stick for his loader. Its a new tractor and JD can't seem to get it fixed. Cable with be the cheapest and the least amount of problems.
I got a cable joy stick on my tractor and have replaced the cable once so far at 1200 tractor hours so only a fraction of those hours are using the joy stick, the old backhoe is 12 years older and the hour meter quit long ago at 6000 hours but I haven't had to change any linkage yet. I'm betting that a linkage is going to be the lowest cost and most reliable of all options.
My firewood processor sits outside, and I fight the throttle and choke cables constantly because moisture gets in them and freezes. Something to consider. I'd still probably go cable vs air though.