Starting to see it again.

[customsawyer]

Getting lots of folks around here that are buying new to them cars that get better fuel mileage, while still keeping their other vehicle. I have never understood this. By the time you buy the extra car and then pay for the insurance you probably have to drive close to 100,000 miles to save enough fuel to break even. That's not adding tires and brakes. Am I the only one that thinks this is nuts?

[240b]

just saw local contractor buy 30k gas job because "diesel too much" for 80k cowboy cadillac.   I don't get it.  

[Bruno of NH]

I would think it would take multiple vehicles to make any paybacks. 
For example a medium contracting company switching the fleet to say the Chevy twin turbo 4cyl or the Ford F150 eco boost 6 cyl twin turbo.
From v8 1/2 ton trucks.
Not the one person setup. 

[Spike60]

Funny, but we put this all to the calculater yesterday in the store and came out with about the same numbers as you did. Already posted some of this in the firewood section, but....

Examples were going from a 20mpg vehicle to a 35mpg vehicle we came up with about $107 saved per 1000 miles @ $5 per gallon. 10,000 miles a year means you are only saving $1070. Not a big deal. Now plug in the cost of the car. A decent car @ 10,000 would require about 94,000 miles of driving to hit the break even point; right in line with Custom's estimate.

But, in addition to purchase price, you're going to have the extra cost of keeping the car on the road. Plates, insurance, figure a couple sets of tires, brakes, exhaust maybe. If you start with a nicer car @ $15000, then the numbers really go nuts. Somewhere up around 140,000 miles? The other big variable is how many miles are on the car when you get it? If the car already has a lot of miles on it, it might not ever reach that break even point.

Going the other way in purchase price, the target gets easier to hit. But even a $5000 car will need to go about 47,000 miles to cover it's purchase price. Still almost a 5 year payback @ 10,000 mikles a year. Plug in 15,000 miles a year and of course the numbers all change, and the break even comes sooner. And we figured this at $5 a gal, so the whole excersize would look different at $6 a gal.

We sort of ended up concluding that the only way to make this work is to stumble on a really cheap car that's in decent shape. $2000 or less? Something in the family or someone you know and cross your fingers hope the thing is realiable and doesn't hit you with serious issues. There's a bit of luck involved.

[customsawyer]

It's along the same line as some of these crazy expensive coolers that are supposed to keep ice for several days. I have two of them and they were not my choice. A couple of years later I bought a new ice machine for a little less than my ex paid for the two coolers. I'm sure there are certain places where they might be needed like hunting or fishing trips but for the average joe you can buy a lot of ice for what these things cost.

[Raider Bill]

It's along the same line as some of these crazy expensive coolers that are supposed to keep ice for several days. I have two of them and they were not my choice. A couple of years later I bought a new ice machine for a little less than my ex paid for the two coolers. I'm sure there are certain places where they might be needed like hunting or fishing trips but for the average joe you can buy a lot of ice for what these things cost.

Those yeti can coozies crack me up.
If you need a $25 coozie to keep you beer cold you are drinking wrong.

[Tom K]

I have a little difference mind set on this. Granted I'm not buying a new car just for fuel savings, but the arguments are the same. I've always had 2 vehicles, a fuel efficient car and my truck. My 25mpg car gets driven every day and my 10-12mpg truck sets unless I need to haul or tow something. There are also a lot of benefits of having an "extra" vehicle when needed. Insurance & registration on my car runs about $600/yr, car tires are way cheaper then truck tires, and cars are way cheaper to maintain. 

The dynamics are different for everyone, but for me it works. If I was a full time logger, or sawyer the dynamics would be different. My car is also my wife's old car. We buy her a new one and I take the old one, and my truck is 15 years old. I don't need my truck every day so keeping the miles off of it helps it last longer and require less maintenance. It's also nice to be able to leave a trailer hooked up, or leave it loaded for a few days. If I could get by using a 1/2 ton truck my dynamics would also change.

[21incher]

I think they are smart and planning ahead. Gas predicted to hit $6 a gallon by August.  A big storm season  could double that. Getting harder to find cars getting  good mileage and that will get worse as gas prices go up. Right before  the 2024 election it will probably be worth double the price you paid. Sell it Oct 2024 and walk away with a pile of cash. After  the election $2 a gallon and drive the gas hog again. Common core math  :D

[Spike60]

Those yeti can coozies crack me up.
If you need a $25 coozie to keep you beer cold you are drinking wrong.

I agree, but there are those times.......
Husky had a deal with Orca and we got a whole pallet of these nice 18-20 oz tumblers for free. Had some contest we didn't even know about and we were in the top 5 dealers in the country. We just happened to do a huge saw order at the right time. 
You can sit out in 90+ degree weather with them and the ice in a gin and tonic or a beer will last for hours. Bottle of beer is getting warm in 15 minutes on a day like that. 

[scsmith42]

I have a little difference mind set on this. Granted I'm not buying a new car just for fuel savings, but the arguments are the same. I've always had 2 vehicles, a fuel efficient car and my truck. My 25mpg car gets driven every day and my 10-12mpg truck sets unless I need to haul or tow something. There are also a lot of benefits of having an "extra" vehicle when needed. Insurance & registration on my car runs about $600/yr, car tires are way cheaper then truck tires, and cars are way cheaper to maintain.

The dynamics are different for everyone, but for me it works. If I was a full time logger, or sawyer the dynamics would be different. My car is also my wife's old car. We buy her a new one and I take the old one, and my truck is 15 years old. I don't need my truck every day so keeping the miles off of it helps it last longer and require less maintenance. It's also nice to be able to leave a trailer hooked up, or leave it loaded for a few days. If I could get by using a 1/2 ton truck my dynamics would also change.

I'm in the same boat as Tom.  Back in 2008 when fuel prices shot up my daily driver was a diesel F450, and my wife's daily driver was a diesel excursion.  Based upon our 2007 driving habits, in 2008 we were going to spend 14K on diesel fuel at $4.00 per gallon.
We went out and spent 28K on a 48mpg Prius, and transferred 90% of our driving over to it.  The trucks just stayed hooked up to trailers (horse for hers, log for mine).
At the end of the year we saved enough on fuel to pay all costs associated with the Prius, and still had several K left over.
Daily driver today is a 31mpg diesel Canyon. I still like wearing out vehicles that get great fuel mileage while preserving our tow vehicles for the long haul.

[WV Sawmiller]

  I have bought additional vehicles and kept the old one and my son has done so several times to get cheaper transport to and from work and within a few months he'd break even and never lost anything from it. He'd buy a cheap used car and when it needed too much work he'd sell it and get back what he'd paid for it.

   I bought a small Ford Ranger truck for him to drive in the woods while he was in college and putting out gypsy moth traps for the state during the summers. He had a late model full size Chevy and I did not want him driving it in the bush where he needed to go but the little Ford worked fine. We had 4 vehicles and 3 drivers at the time. When I added the Ford our insurance actually went down because now he was the principal driver of a lower risk vehicle. When you show more vehicles than drivers insurance gets pretty cheap because they know one or more will be parked all the time.

   I think it is prudent to have a spare vehicle around if you have the space and can afford it. It really may not be costing as much as you are expecting. 

[barbender]

I land squarely in the "you're not going to save as much as you spent" camp, except in more extreme cases where someone was driving a 460 powered F350 for a 100 mile commute or to get groceries and bought a Prius😁 One of our daughters was driving our spare Chevy Suburban, and was in a rush to buy something of her own that got better gas mileage. So we sat down and did the numbers. We figured out that as things sat, her costs were- gas. Mom and Dad were covering everything else on the rig. If she bought something that doubled her mileage from 15 to 30, with insurance, maintenance, fuel, and the purchase price she wasbquickly able to see saving 50% on gas was going to cost a LOT of money. So she kept on driving the ol' Burb until she had enough money saved to buy something nicer and newer than I've ever owned, then pitched me the keys of my wore out Burb. Brat.😁

 I remember our previous $5/gallon diesel episode, was that '07? I was commuting with my Dodge dually 50 miles a day. I decided I needed a gas guzzler. I started looking at $2500-3000 rigs, and when I did the numbers I figured I would have to get 4 or 5 years out of it to break even. So I just kept rolling in the Dodge😊

[rusticretreater]

The gas guzzler is your dually.  You wanted a gas sipper.

These numbers you folks are quoting are a straight dollars and cents valuation, but what is the value of the work the vehicle does?  Do you drive down the road satisfied or disgruntled with the costs?  Do you worry about breakdowns or maintenance?  What is the value of peace of mind?

Truth be told, I have curtailed all my hauling longer distances for certain loads of logs.  They gotta be real good ones to make me go get 'em.  Every mile hauled takes a bite out of the profits at these gas prices.  If lumber prices were to drop, that fuel cost is locked into the logs and lumber made from them.

Funny thing. Both of my daughters got tickets while driving.  Virginia law requires new drivers who get tickets to attend driver improvement clinics.  My insurance company was notified and my rates actually went down because they got additional safety instruction!

[Tom K]

she was quickly able to see saving 50% on gas was going to cost a LOT of money.

Well, it was going to cost HER a lot of money because YOU were still caring all the other cost associated with the 'burb. Not really a fair cost comparison. Add your cost for the 'burb in and the dynamics change.

I am also a firm believer that pretty much anyone can made some number make since for what they want the outcome to be. Some people just need to drive a truck and their numbers will point to that being cheaper. Strictly comparing apples to apples, instead of apples to oranges it will almost always be cheaper to put miles on a car vs a truck. The decision comes down to wants vs needs vs functionality.

As for piece of mind, I feel more comfortable/confident in the car then my truck, but I also don't drive a $2k beater car. My car is a '15 with 100k miles that we bought for my wife in '17. My truck is an '07 3/4 ton with 150k miles and is starting to rust out pretty bad. Living in the rust belt 15-20 years is about the life expectancy of a vehicle before rust takes over. I should also say that all of our "cars" are really SUV's, and everything we own is AWD/4wd.

For me it's not all dollars and cents. It's also convenience, comfort, and piece of mind. My dynamic works for me, but it might not for others.

[barbender]

Sorry, I misspoke when I said I decided I needed a "gas guzzler", I meant a gas mizer🤦‍♂️ That dually diesel got 21 mpg average, the best I ever did with it was 23.6 mpg. 

 No, my daughters situation was not apples for apples because we were paying all the costs other than fuel. I made that comparison on purpose, just to show the fallacy of comaring only money saved by better mileage instead of all costs incurred.

[YellowHammer]

Between the trucks, the diesel sawmill, tractor, track loader, forklift, and our boats, one of which has a 160 gallon fuel tank, I pay a lot for fuel.  

I hate the run up on fuel prices as much as anybody, but most of my equipment burns what it burns.

However, I'm a truck guy, and I bought a more fuel miserly vehicle this last year when I went from a 17 mpg Chevy truck to a 21 mpg Ford truck. ;D

I heard that the current administration signed in a Warfighting Production Act this week for producing solar panels to reduce energy fuel costs, and I can't wait for them to send me some free ones next week so I can mount them on my truck bed!  Then I won't even need diesel for any of my stuff!  

[beenthere]

Bottle of beer is getting warm in 15 minutes on a day like that.

Then you are drinking too slow...  :D :D

[GAB]

... and I can't wait for them to send me some free ones next week so I can mount them on my truck bed!  

Mr. Milton:
I suggest you not hold your breath while waiting.
GAB

[YellowHammer]

 :D :D :D :D :D





  

[Bruno of NH]

It's along the same line as some of these crazy expensive coolers that are supposed to keep ice for several days. I have two of them and they were not my choice. A couple of years later I bought a new ice machine for a little less than my ex paid for the two coolers. I'm sure there are certain places where they might be needed like hunting or fishing trips but for the average joe you can buy a lot of ice for what these things cost.

Those yeti can coozies crack me up.
If you need a $25 coozie to keep you beer cold you are drinking wrong.

I never got the coozie thing 
When I was good at drinking beer I never let it get warm.
It's like putting a rain coat on an otter.
My beer days are long past me.

[customsawyer]

As with most things there is exceptions, but I don't think most will ever save enough on fuel to off set the cost and maintenance of the gas sipper.
I have 2 diesel pickups and could save more than most buy getting the gas sipper since gas is around a buck a gallon cheaper but I don't drive enough now days for it to ever work out.

[Spike60]

OK @beenthere. I pretty much knew I was setting myself up for that slow drinking accusation. lol  But anyone has one of those things, they'd be using it. Works great for coffee in the morning too.

[Ron Wenrich]

I have never gone the route of having a gas guzzling car.  I learned my lesson when we had the oil embargo back in the '70s.  Since then, fuel economy was one of the main reason to buy a certain car.  All my cars have been stick shift, since they got better gas mileage.  I don't do any heavy hauling, so my pickup is a smaller Toyota.

But, the way you drive often dictates your gas mileage.  I can get 10%+ better gas mileage than my wife.  She tends to drive too fast into stops, and takes off a bit faster than necessary.  My best car was a Jetta diesel.  I could get as good of mileage as a hybrid, but with more power.  But, I had to trade it in when it had 140k and the govt told me I couldn't have it, I ended up with a gas Jetta.  I can still get near a hybrid on trips.  Around town, not so much.

By having those gas mizers, when fuel goes up, I can't do much better.  I figured the savings probably paid for a new car along the way. 

[Don P]

The best I ever got in the motorhome was 7 mpg with a tailwind on the prairie. When I parked it, it didn't have 100,000 miles on it. Loved to hear that big block open up and howl right beside my feet climbing the mountains but it was about like pouring a gas jug down its throat. It went to the cross country job, parked, and came back. We have 2 drivers and I think 4 active tags, 2 sippers and 2 pickups, one little, one full sized. I tend to drive the little truck. I can run and get about anything. Those 3 could be electric and be fine for most things, which is the logical way for me to go next replacement. The full sized and trailer is hooked up at the planer now. My big fuel saving strategy yesterday was to take the skidsteer there and bring a load of lumber home to plane. Its parked and I'll drive the little truck today and bring home stickers.

Now that I am reasonable retirement age... the notion of resurrecting the motorhome with electric motors and panels on the roof. When the batteries go flat, park and fish till its ready to hop to the next hole  :D

[21incher]

Wednesday my new Ranger finally showed up at the dealer and yesterday I went in to finalize the paperwork. There  was a new Lightning sitting behind it and I told my salesman I would be back in a couple  years for one of them. Well he said I should  get on their list now for an order next time the window opens up. Right now it's  3 years out to get one from time of order if you are lucky. Hopefully the GM electric conversion kit is out soon for my Biscayne because  as Don says a couple solar panels and you never have to buy gas again. Just have to hope for a couple sunny days a week.