Black Stains in Oak

[james04]

Hello all,

I am new to milling and would like to know. If an oak log that had been left in contact with the ground and had black stains can be salvaged. When you first saw a board of the log you really see the stains well. But about 15-20 min. in the sun they start to fade to barley visible. Can these stains be removed? Or is this log destined for paint grade only?

James

[Ron Wenrich]

Usually those stains are only in the sapwood.  It is blue stain, and it occurs in about every type of tree.  There are exceptions.  The heartwood should be stain free.  If not, then it isn't stain.  Its what we call mineral, and it was there before the tree was cut down.

It may have lightened up after cutting, but it is not gone.  A clear finish will bring it right back up.  You may be able to work around it with some sort of stain.  It is normally sold as 2 Common lumber if there is stain.  It also can occur in dead stacked lumber.

[james04]

Usually those stains are only in the sapwood.  It is blue stain, and it occurs in about every type of tree.  There are exceptions.  The heartwood should be stain free.  If not, then it isn't stain.  Its what we call mineral, and it was there before the tree was cut down.

It may have lightened up after cutting, but it is not gone.  A clear finish will bring it right back up.  You may be able to work around it with some sort of stain.  It is normally sold as 2 Common lumber if there is stain.  It also can occur in dead stacked lumber.

I wish it was only in the sap wood. The origins of the staining is in the grain that emanates from all of the limbs and follows that grain into the hart of the log. The log had been delimbed a year ago when it was cut down. Then the but log has the stains on the half of the log that was in contact with the ground. Kind of looks like water wicked rite through the bark. The stains are the same as if an oak board had gotten wet. Is that possible?

James

[Ron Wenrich]

I don't know if I've seen anything quite like you describe.  It sounds like it was in the tree before it got in contact with the ground and that lying around just made it more pronounced. 

My guess is you have a pin oak.  I've seen some that have that water logged look.

[solidwoods]

Sounds like Spalt.
Look like black wire?

Some spalted woods sell for more than non spalted.
I don't think oxalic acid or bleach will remove it.
It will just grade low, or if it has prime figure, keep it together for a project or woodworker that wants spalted oak.
jim

[bandmiller2]

Be carefull the tree could have ferris tramp metal that was hammered into it when it was young.The stain will travel,use a metal detector if you have one . Frank C.

[james04]

Hi Guys,

This was a 16 foot log that I cut into two eight footers. The top half with the limbs has been milled into boards already (no metal). The bottom half I started milling and when I realized that I am not going to get any unstained boards I just left it as a cant. Thank you for your replies. I am sure I will find a use for it. I was mostly asking in case I came across more like it. Hopefully not. Most of my logs are well of the ground.

James

[Tom]

Don't spend a lot of time with it. Board it out and configure a Marketing plan.   Mineral Stain?  I've seen it in the red oaks, especially wet footed ones, water oaks and the like.   The black streaks are vertical and follow the grain.  I've seen it in panels and it looks really nice when finished.  If you save the cant, there is a good chance that you will lose it for any further processing.  I'd saw it up.

[james04]

Tom,
Thank you for your response. Could you please elaborate on "loose it for any further processing". Do you mean because of checking and warping or something else? I am new to all of this.

James

[Tom]

Many times sawyers leave a log in cant form only to find that the drying process begins to open up checks and warp will begin as well.  Sometimes fungus' get started that stain the surfaces because you can't dry a big cant slow enough to stop it.   It always sounds good on paper to saw a cant and store it for when the market is up, or someone comes by and tells you what he wants cut out of it, only to find that the cant has begun to degrade to the point that you can't get the same quality as if you had boarded it out when you opened the log.

There are some posts on this problem/challenge in the forum.   I remember this question being asked by Kelvin when  he was at his wit's end on one occassion.

Others have wanted to store cants in the barn and saw them later.  Not many sawyers will give you a favorable answer.  If you want to saw crossties, that is another story.  If you are creating timbers for timber frame then some checks are acceptable and there are precautions you can take to minimize them, but it's a lot of handling that, in the end, just wastes your time. 

[james04]

Thank you. That is a big help. I was actually thinking about milling my logs into cants until needed. Sounds like it is a big no no.

James