Dogs attacking livestock-local or general problem?

[caveman]

Yesterday while leveling bench legs on the mill, my neighbor from the end of our road was frantically blowing the horn of her SUV while another neighbor and her adult son approached me at the mill.  They informed me that a bull that had been attacked by a dog had run up our driveway.  We opened a gate and penned the bull into the pasture north of my parents' house.  The bull's ears were chewed up and bloody as well as his scrotum.  I got in touch with the owners of the bull and a while later he and his dad showed up with their gooseneck and cow ponies.

Meanwhile, my neighbors and I were doing repairs at our other neighbor's house (the lady who was honking the horn who is a recent widow but is an immigrant from Hungary and former Olympian).  The bull, with the Rottweiler type dog giving him the business busted through a gate, broke a water line, tried to enter her house to escape the dog-causing some damage to the screened enclosure and busting up some of her lawn ornaments.

After a time, the bull was herded by the two on horses and a few of us on the ground back to his pasture a 1/2 mile away.  The bull was not injured as bad as the steer pictured.  Shortly after the bull was returned, another fellow pulled up into my driveway after seeing some of the commotion.  He had just been searching the ranch across from my house for three lost young heifers, which he was unable to find.  Later today I will go back down to the neighbor's place and attempt to finish gluing her yard art back together.

This is a charolais x steer that was attacked in a pen at school by two dogs two days before Christmas in 2015.  The owner and her family were in WV at the time.  I checked the cameras in the barn and those dogs attacked the steer for over two hours, resting occasionally or taking the opportunity to kill show rabbits.  We had to be really careful on how and what to treat the steer with as the attack was only about a month before its terminal show so we had to pay real close attention the withdrawal times on the meds administered.  We were able to get him cleaned up and nursed him back to health but he lost weight and barely made the minimum for the county fair.

Some of the folks who keep cattle have a donkey in their pastures to help protect the cattle from dogs and coyotes.  Do many of you have to deal with dogs attacking livestock?   

  

  

 

[red]

SSS

[Ox]

There was only one time we had trouble with cows and dogs.  But it was coydogs/coyotes (we assume since we'd been seeing them and hearing them over on the back 30) and they ran our heifer herd out through a 4 strand high tensile fence one night.  We had animals all over these hills and didn't see a few of them for a few days.
Those pics make me feel bad for the poor animal and I'm not overly lovey towards cows.
I know that some of these so called domesticated dogs can be more vicious that wild animals because they don't have the natural fear of humans and so are emboldened even further.
I also know that a single dog hardly ever does anything like this.  It takes a pack.  Pack mentality.  This is why it's dangerous to find yourself in a city at night with a gang coming your way.  Pack mentality works with humans too.  Mob mentality.  It's a scary thing.
One dog good dog.  Two dogs bad dogs.
We don't have trouble with wandering dogs around here.  They would be killed immediately if they started causing any trouble of any kind.  However, I understand people can't be home and vigilant at all times and a fence built for cattle won't keep out dogs.

[chevytaHOE5674]

We don't have too much trouble with domesticated dogs as there aren't too many around but when/if I do its SSS. We do have problems with coyotes and wolves with the cattle (once again SSS if I'm there), but since adding a couple of donkeys to the heard we haven't had any more issues :Knock on wood.

[newoodguy78]

If I was the owner of those cows, the dogs involved would not be around for long...

[Ox]

Why the SSS?  It's totally legal to shoot a disturbance animal.  Or is it not this way everywhere?

[Dave Shepard]

It is legal in MA to protect your animals. The last domestic dog problem we had was in the early eighties. I know it was a German Shepherd, but I don't know whose it was. I seem to remember it was a dog we had gotten somewhere that went wild. We haven't had any coyote problems in a long time, twenty years or more. I think there are many more easily gotten meals out there right now. In the nineties we had a pack of domestic dogs roaming around. They didn't cause any trouble. I followed them on the tractor once, and as each dog came to it's house it would break off from the group.

[RPowers]

Free range animals that are vicious or damaging persons or property are permanently dealt with here. My thought is if the owners had any concern for the welfare of their animal then it would be properly contained and monitored by them.  If it isn't and is on my place causing a problem then I can certainly contain it here.

[Chuck White]

Here in NY, it's absolutely LEGAL to shoot a menacing dog if it's running your cattle, and for that matter, anyones cattle!

If you're driving down the road and you see a dog attacking someones cattle, you can legally stop and shoot the dog.  Just make sure that the dog and the cattle aren't the property of the same owner!

There's not much worse than 2-3 dogs from the village going out into the rural areas because they will usually find a way to get in trouble!

[chevytaHOE5674]

Shooting a dog or coyote can be legal here, but shooting a wolf on the other hand is bad news.

So for that reason its just as easy to SSS in all instances.

[Roxie]

Dogs are going to be dogs.  The problem here is dog owners that fail to control and confine their pet.  Hold the dog owner accountable and call the police to handle it.  If I had such a problem I wouldn't hesitate to put a mule or donkey in with the cows, and then tell your neighbors with dogs that you have taken that step to protect your livestock. 

[drobertson]

Had issues quite a few years back, a pack of rogue dogs, it took a few weeks but we neighbors got rid of them, they roamed bout three sq. Miles,  live stock around here comes before any critter, rural police too far away, they suggest handling it old school.  Owners soon figure it out. Now harming neighbors pets is a different ball game, each case can be different,  Ive  hauled a few back home in the truck when they are getting into mischief, and fetched mine, her main problem is she likes cat food, and walking on in the back door, Susan laughs, I don't, but good neighbors are nice!

[plowboyswr]

We generally don't have too many problems around here with coyotes it's domestic dogs. City folk like to dump them off out here then they end up creating a pack. And as Ox stated they get that pack mentality and start killing everything they see. So as soon as we see any strays it's time to open season.
My aunt who was raising sheep and goats had 3 of her Neighbor's dogs pack up and went on a killing spree on her herd. Caught them on tape. Uncle went and confronted one of the neighbors on his dog who called his dog to him saw the blood on its nose and grabbed his gun right on the spot put it down, then turned to uncle said what do I owe you. Gun still smoking uncle said," not a durn thing you already did what I wanted done."

[GAB]

My dad had a neighbor whose calves, tied in the barn, had their ears chewed on.  The neighbor suspected his German Shepard and kept an eye out.  Sure enough he saw the dog do it again and played tug of war with the dog.  Problem solved.
Gerald

[fishpharmer]

Have had packs of feral dogs attack my cows around here.  They are bad news.  Here is my mini donkey fighting back...

https://youtu.be/9EC3mk-jhLo

[coxy]

 I will also do it if a dog is running deer in the winter sss  most of my neighbors know how I  am so they keep there pets at home  8) 8)

[gspren]

   Back when I raised goats I had a standard sized donkey, about 700 pounds, to protect them. I told a new neighbor to make sure their young German Shepard never got in the pasture and they said "don't worry he is friendly", so when I told them the Donkey would stomp him into mush they got kind of sick looking and kept him confined after that, he had been running loose.

[Gearbox]

Are local sheriff told me years ago no one looks for bullet holes in a run over dog .

[Ox]

The attitudes and responses are reassuring to me as to why we still have a great country. 

[wesdor]

Years ago (50), my uncle had a pack of dogs running his cattle.  He shot them and dumped the bodies in a ditch. A "Hunter" claimed the dogs were his prize hunting hours worth thousands of dollars each!  The hunter claimed he was lost for three days (but was found at a local bar that supplied women of negotiable  virtue).
Police came and arrested my uncle, put him in cuffs, booked him and he spent a night in jail. Ultimately he got a good lawyer that had the case dismissed,but it cost $$$.
His problem was that he didn't cover the dogs. As others have implied, dogs like this should be shot and then quickly buried.

If the owner begins asking questions, perhaps the first line of answers should be "what are you going to do about the vet bills for the cattle." 

[red]

There have been a few postings like this over ten years . Another idea is having an excavator that dogs deeper than the Sheriff's backhoe. 

[Roxie]

This a case from my area:

http://www.pottsmerc.com/general-news/20131029/update-chesco-man-who-shot-neighbors-dogs-avoids-jail-time

Found guilty. 

[LeeB]

Sorry, but I would have done the same. I just lost two dogs of my own because they were harassing a neighbors cows. He took care of them before I could. Had it been the other way around I would have done the same to his.

[coxy]

so in that neighbor hood they let the dogs kill or mangle your live stock then you have to ask whos dog/s it was and tell them with a smile on your face your dogs did the right thing because they got out of your yard  you can bet your sweet   if it was the old guys dog that was after there live stock and they shot the dog/s it would have been justified I have been down that road before  : my little fufu would never do a thing like that errrrrrr          forgot to put neighbor in front of hood

[red]

Maybe in towns where a yearly dog tag is issued ? And dogs have Chips . Wild packs of Dogs have an unkept appearance.

[caveman]

This morning I went down to the neighbor's house to resume gluing her yard ornament back together and the bull and his three females were at the entrance gate.  The four of them have the run of 100 acres or woods and a little grass.  The cows were not attacked and the bull has

   settled down and interested in performing as a bull-the red cow seemed to have his attention.

[paul case]

I caught a pack of 5 dogs killing my feeder pigs about 15 years ago. 4 of them were in the pen with 4'+ fence around it and with my trusty 22 I got 3 before they could get out, got one more one the run and let one get away.
This was the fifth incident in less than 5 years that woke us up about daylight. I am proficient at extermination. It seems to happen more about the time that a Christmas pup would get too big to keep in the house, then they dump them on us country folk.
I did call the sheriff and the deputies that came out looked things over and basically said ''Good shootin''. I was concerned that the number of the little pig killers I had terminated that someone may come looking for them. The deputies said that I was ok and that I only had to think the dogs would hurt my stock and I would be justified in killing them.
IMO the man with the sheep was justified. NO question.
The solution for people with pets is keep them home.

PC

[Dan_Shade]

I agree with you, Paul.  Those that think otherwise don't understand that farmers  financially depend on their livestock to make a living.

I have a feeling that what caused this problem was the farmers tone with the dog owners.

[Dave Shepard]

It isn't the fact that the animals represent a financial loss, it's that when you keep an animal, you have a responsibility to provide proper care and protection for that animal, whether it's a pet or an animal kept to make money. Not doing something to stop animal predation would be neglect just as much as not feeding that animal.

[Roxie]

i think some have interpreted my sharing that story indicates that I agree with the outcome.  I was horrified at what happened to that man that was defending his sheep.  i even wrote a letter to the DA and my County Supervisors in his defense. 

The owner of the dogs was awarded with a paid Chairmanship on the County SPCA.  It was outrageous!

My intent was a cautionary tale that I sure wouldn't want that to happen to anyone. 

[Roxie]

By the way @fishpharmer I love the video of the mini donkey teaching those dogs the meaning of boundaries.   :D

[thecfarm]

I had a problem just once. 2 dogs about ½ mile through the woods got into my turkey pen while we was gone. I think I had 4 turkeys in there. Happened more than 10 years ago. One dog took off,but one was still in the pen. I had a hard time to find the owner. Knocked on many doors. When I did find the owner,she wanted to know how I knew her dogs did it. Because there is still one in the pen. Someone had let the dogs out. They was not suppose to run free. How they got to my place,I have no idea. She came up and she knew she was in a mess. I wanted something to pay for those turkeys,about 2-3 weeks before Thanksgiving. $100 later she had her dog in her car and was going down the road.

[coxy]

i think some have interpreted my sharing that story indicates that I agree with the outcome.  I was horrified at what happened to that man that was defending his sheep.  i even wrote a letter to the DA and my County Supervisors in his defense. 

The owner of the dogs was awarded with a paid Chairmanship on the County SPCA.  It was outrageous!

My intent was a cautionary tale that I sure wouldn't want that to happen to anyone.

Roxie    I'm sorry if I made it sound like you where agreeing with the dog owners that was not how I wanted it to sound   again sorry

[Roxie]

No reason to apologize.  I made myself clear as mud.   :D

[sandhills]

I'll have to admit I'm guilty, we recently had a litter of pups and mom decided to take them for a "walk".  Three of the four that followed were already spoken for and been named, shown to grandchildren, etc. etc., and were to be picked up that next weekend. We found the first one behind our neighbors house (think farm house, barn, a big ravine, and he has a cc permit and uses it, made me just a touch nervous tramping around back there but couldn't get a hold of him) but couldn't find the other three.  I did finally get a hold of their son who I work with a bit and he let them know what was going on, made me feel a touch better.  I got a call the next morning they'd seen them but couldn't get close to them, I finally found them about a mile south of where the neighbors saw them, a bunch of scared little pups  :D.  They would normally be in the house or kennel but I was working outside and just let them out for a bit, that cost me a solid day of looking for them  :.  I've told my wife sometime they won't come back and I'll know why, but we love our dogs, and at that time we were "dog sitting" our grandchildren so with the pups we had 13 dogs living with us for the weekend, fun fun  :D.

[sandhills]

Oh the neighbors got a gift certificate to go eat where their daughter works sometime for helping us look, we're blessed with good neighbors!

[Stoneyacrefarm]

I have to say after reading the article Roxie posted.
SSS would apply hear.
I have had sheep tormented and killed by neighborhood pets.
Not many of their owners care about you losing half a dozen lambs.
But if they lose their precious dog it's a different story.
It sounds heartless but when the shoe is on the other foot.
I'm the one that lost close to $1000.00 in lamb sales.

[Ox]

It doesn't sound heartless to me.  The people who would whine about this are the very same people who have lost touch with their ancestral roots and as such are completely ignorant to the fact that to protect life death is sometimes involved.   Seems to be way, way too many bleeding hearts concerning dogs but not livestock.  Where are the bleeding hearts when there are bloodied and dead livestock?  We never hear a word.....

I could go on for hours so I'll just stop here.

[Stoneyacrefarm]

I just noticed gearbox's post from earlier.
So true.
A dog (Doberman Rottweiler cross) jumped thru the window of my house years ago to get a female that was in heat. It was 2 am.
I let him out the basement door the first time it happened.
The second time was at 4 am.
He didn't leave my house the second time.
I left him out on the road a mile from the house.
Cops showed up at my house at 6:30 and asked me if I was missing a dog. I said no. Why you asking.
He said I just found one down the road a piece that got hit by a car.   
The cop then says can I borrow your wheel barrow.
I said sure.  Why?
He said I think I figured out who's dog it is.
The guy was a very bad dog owner and the culprit dog had chased the neighbors kids down the street a few days before.
Cop then proceeded to leave the dog on the guys door step.
I think he handled the situation quite well.
Problem solved.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I did a site visit last summer and the couple were an old hippy and a redneck (its good to see they finally got together) with all kinds of animals. They had a miniature donkey to protect their sheep, pot bellied pigs and fowl from coyotes. I figured the donkey would be the first to get eaten but after watching the video I have changed my mind. We have the small mule and our old Australian shepherd likes to chase him and vice versa. Unfortunately the old dog is about 16-17 years old and not as nimble as he used to be and he has to give up the game much quicker than before.

   Feral or free ranging dogs that attack livestock will also be a threat to children IMHO.

   My knock around buddy is a 13 lb Rat terrier. He was 9 months old when I got him and he had never been socialized. The people who had him fed them good but just left them in the barn and such. He is very shy around people and will not let strangers touch him although he has never snapped at anyone. He grew up with all kind of animals and livestock. There was even a setting hen in his stall with him when I picked him up. He won't hurt anything. Only my wife, me and granddaughters can even pet him.

[coxy]

don't get me wrong I have 2 beagles that are our pets I use them to rabbit hunt with but I told my wife and daughter that hunt with me if they start running deer they will never come home or if they pester any neighbors  game or live stock the neighbors  know what to do

[redbeard]

Livestock guard Dogs (LGDs) are a great protector of all farm animals. Gentle with people but they don't put up with predators attacking there heard.
Turkish shepard dogs  known as Kangels, Akabash, Anatolian  and Boz shepards are some of the best protectors.

[sandhills]

readbeard we had a white pyranese that had a trail worn around the cattle pens at our old place, she got cancer bad and had to be put down but you'd have never found a more gentle giant with people unless you crossed the line with "hers".  We weren't married yet but someone tried to break into my wife's house one night, she didn't allow that, but I'd of trusted her with any child on the planet, I have one horse like that too, I like animals more than most people I know  ;).

[Ianab]

NZ has some of the more restrictive gun laws, and probably the most working dogs,

But local laws say that if a dog is worrying ANY livestock you can simply shoot it. It's seldom a problem with working farm dogs. They are bred and trained to both work with livestock and humans. The ones that fail, get shot, so selective breeding tends to help there. Likewise stray dogs aren't an issue. In town animal control picks them up pretty quick, on the farms it's SSS.

The problem dogs are semi trained town dogs to start roaming.

The local working dogs are generally breeds of Collie, or a NZ breed called Huntaway, which is a larger dog more like an American Hound. They are big, loud and generally friendly, even if not as smart as a Collie.

Most farmers know their neighbours dogs, and wouldn't shoot one they recognised, unless it was actually attacking stock. And in that case, the neighbour most likely thank you. At our old place the neighbours would drive past our place, and one of his dogs would call in and check out the shed for any left over dog biscuits. It was a friendly old thing that we knew by name, so we would give it a pat and send it one it's way.

[Roxie]

we had a white pyranese that had a trail worn around the cattle pens at our old place,

We know of several farmers in our area that have these dogs inside the fencing around acres of free range chickens.  They are very effective guards for the hens and the children love them. 

[LeeB]

Ours was barking at a buzzard the other day to keep it away from the Guineas. It was funny but comforting too. We have 7 of them. The older female is Pyrenees. Her mate is Pyrenees Akabash mix. 4 of the pups are from them and just bought a new pure Pyrenees pup. Will get the older dogs spayed/neutered and most of the pups. We will then start over with one of the new female pups and the new male pure pup.