Deere dozer G vs H vs J

[Firewoodjoe]

My next purchase I hope to be dozer. It will be awhile. But I'm hoping before next winter. But I'm looking now. Gathering info. I'm leaning towards a 450-550-650 Deere. I'd like a cab and winch. So far the price range puts me in a 450 with those options. I guess I'd like to hear advantages and disadvantages of each series. I know the G is sought after and more old school but the cabs are nicer on the H and J. 

[mike_belben]

Id try for the 650 if that doesnt put moving it out of your license class.  Weight dictates how much work per gallon a dozer can do. My D31 is comparable to a 550 and a touch bigger never hurts. 

[Firewoodjoe]

Yeah I'd like a 650 but a 650 will be open station and no winch for the same as a 450 with both. That would be a tough decision. And I'm sure the time will come when I'm standing next to one. The d31 is kinda light isn't it? 

[mike_belben]

Around 15k and 75hp.  Its got snot to spare but a big wall of dirt and tracks will spin.  My grousers are getting low but id rather spin than break a hard to find final. 


 id take a 450 with winch and cab hands down personally.  Whats the point of a 650 with no winch?  450 still cut a good road just wont love stumps or ledge.  6 way blades arent really strong enough to stump much anyway. You want outside arms for that. 

[mike_belben]

...people want 10, 12 grand for a winch alone now so keep that in mind. 

[Firewoodjoe]

Yeah that's about like a 450 g or newer. The only reason I'd need a bigger one is when a truck is stuck to the point it can't help. And I don't even think a 650 will get one moving. But a winch and snatch block will help a lot. 

[mike_belben]

Yeah i guess in the newer era machines youre looking at it compares to a 450.  The 450A/B/C generations in my budget were a good bit smaller.  Ive got a 9ft blade with a big brush rack and 24" swamp pads plus 2 more cylinders.  The d31 dwarfs my old case 450. 

[BargeMonkey]

My next big iron purchase is a low hr 450J with a woods package / full cab, my buddy's got one sitting in his yard I just haven't wanted to part with 75k this yr. 

 My 450G has almost 11khrs, a G is almost bulletproof and fairly simple to work on. If you can find a TRUE series 4 the dash is diff and the hoses run out the nose like H / J series, people put the decals on them but not a true series 4. My open cab 450J isn't a bad machine, bought that new, they grade better BUT a TCM is 3800 bucks plus programming and I don't care what you do the open cab ones slowly corrode. Mufflers rot off a J series quick, I've changed 2. A 450 -650 is handy, honestly I think a 700 is the perfect sized machine, my 750J is a pain to move, I move my buddy's 700J and it's just right on a lowboy. The G series parts are around BUT you want to watch what designation, LT, LGP, because the finals where a little diff, I would avoid a 550 in any series because they didn't make as many and on a G it matters on the finals. Nothing wrong with an H but the early ones had gremlins that got expensive. The winches are around, but you've got to have a pass thru pump to put one on a H / J, low hour take offs are 10-12k. You can't go wrong with a 4000 series winch, avoid a Carco 30, not bad but not the same winch, you still see them around on the early G series. 
 Honestly right now JUNK iron is bringing good money, dozer market is pricy, seeing clapped out G series in WV / KY bringing 45k+, they didn't bring 30k 2yrs ago. 

[Firewoodjoe]

Well thanks lol yeah I was shocked at the prices when I started looking on the net. There's only one g with a winch and cab on the net and that's $48,000. Dang! I may have to settle. All the big operations have 700s or 750s but not me. 

[mike_belben]

Unless money is gonna fall in your pockets once you pull the trigger id just wait longer if pickins are that bleak.  Its time be a seller not a buyer.  

This merry go round is spinning so fast that when it stops all sorts of iron is gonna get flung out on the lawn for sale and no one will be stopping to look at it. 

[BargeMonkey]

Unless your desperate I would sit tight, things slow down there's going to be ALOT of cheap iron. We had hunted and talked about a newer 750 for 2yrs, dealer had us come 1st to look at it when it got off the trailer, said don't even try and haggle, here it is or the next guy will buy it and he wasn't joking, the low hour clean stuff doesn't exist. I'm partial to a G series, but the cab on a J is nice, I'm sick of freezing to death 😆. 
 Personally I would buy one without a winch, add the winch when you find a deal, guys think the forestry package adds a fortune but you can buy screens off a G for 1/3 of new at the bone yards. Anything that's spent 10k true hours in the woods is pounded. I would keep hunting machinery trader, the deals exist. 

Unless money is gonna fall in your pockets once you pull the trigger id just wait longer if pickins are that bleak.  Its time be a seller not a buyer.  

This merry go round is spinning so fast that when it stops all sorts of iron is gonna get flung out on the lawn for sale and no one will be stopping to look at it.

I had my post done and Mike posted this ☝ it's the truth and it's coming. 

[Firewoodjoe]

It won't be for awhile anyways. And it prolly won't be a forestry dozer. Yes they are whipped. The one for 48 is just a cab and winch. I don't need it to skid wood. Finding a winch may be my better option. Get a h or j and see what I think. I may not even need one. And I to want a good heater 😅

[mike_belben]

Market crashes are the original rollback pricing.  This next one might take us back to 1985 marty!  Great Ssscot! ;D

[mike_belben]

If you dont need to skid to heck paying premium for the winch id rather rippers or fire plows.

[so il logger]

Not a deere, but have you considered a cat tsk? They are far more than a dirt work dozer with some extra shielding. We have 30" pads on the tsk and grapple skid timber out of some places ya cant even walk

[mike_belben]

Is the TSK full hydrostatic or does it use conventional bevel gear and steering clutch/brake into the finals?

[Skeans1]

They're a power shift setup it's a far better machine for doing forestry work that involves yarding of any sort.

[BargeMonkey]

Need to sell a kidney and mortgage 2 houses to buy a clapped out TSK 😆🤦‍♂️ neat and great for certain jobs but NUTS in price. The new Tigercat dozer looks nice, I'm not a fan of the exhaust. 

Market crashes are the original rollback pricing.  This next one might take us back to 1985 marty!  Great Ssscot! ;D

It's coming Mike. I'm basically debt free by the end of the year except the store and looking at processors / forwarders tonight going NO.. NO.. 😆 

[mike_belben]

Healthcare has plunged us back in debt and im also going no no no on that. 

Oh well, whadda ya gonna do.

[so il logger]

Need to sell a kidney and mortgage 2 houses to buy a clapped out TSK 😆🤦‍♂️ neat and great for certain jobs but NUTS in price. The new Tigercat dozer looks nice, I'm not a fan of the exhaust.

Market crashes are the original rollback pricing.  This next one might take us back to 1985 marty!  Great Ssscot! ;D

It's coming Mike. I'm basically debt free by the end of the year except the store and looking at processors / forwarders tonight going NO.. NO.. 😆

I havent kept up on asking prices lately, and am not advocating buying junk. But if a guy logs and is looking for a machine on tracks and even thinks for a minute he may want to use the machine for skidding then a purpose built tractor is the only way to fly. Dirt dozers made to push dirt, these things are built to pull. But the blade does whatever is asked of it as well. We have logged what had otherwise been deemed unloggable with ours

[Firewoodjoe]

No skidding. Just for truck roads landings and recovery. The winch would be just bad recovery. Stuck truck or machine. I know it won't be big enough or outfitted enough to do it all but the Deere sizes would do the most and still easy to transport. I've never liked cat unless it was a d6 or bigger. 

[Firewoodjoe]

Barge how do I know if it's a winch ready dozer? 4000s are listed brand new with installation kit for 18,000. Maybe I'll search for a 650j with a nice cab. 

[BargeMonkey]

Get the serial # and call a decent dealer, they will be able to tell you if it's got a pass thru pump or not. Honestly it's not a deal breaker if it doesn't, I would have to ask my buddy but he changed his over and it was 2k ish and then you sell the one you've taken off. I would honestly hunt for a clean machine first, you can find take off screen kits for an H-J, rock guards are around, honestly a complete kit thru GR isn't that bad. You see complete take off winch kits in Canada / dealers up north coming out of the oil field alot. 
Don't do like the guy here did and not listen to anyone else 🤦‍♂️😆 and go buy a standard 4000 winch and think it's just going to bolt onto the back of your H series, he's got a paperweight. Dozers have a 4000S, you want to make sure the plate is correct. The guy with that 460 I looked at is looking for a 700, you can find a 4000S set up for a 700 class CHEAPER than a 450-650 class 90% of the time because they only fit that machine and typically they came off an oil field dozer. If I was going to own 1 dozer I would buy a 700. 

 I've got nothing against a TSK / 517-527 they are a BAD machine, I personally would want a swing grapple, not enough good wood here to contemplate being able to afford one, I'm literally subsidized by NYC to do BMP's and still won't buy one 😆There are actually some "cheaper" ones listed on machinery trader now in Italy 🤷‍♂️ for 100-120k but they typically go for 125-250k. A new 450J in 2008 with a COMPLETE forestry package was 107k. My buddy wants 75 for his with 1700hrs and I'm not even going to haggle the way iron prices are going. 

[Skeans1]

Heck there's a D4 TSK like myself and @so il logger have for under 50k listed, it has a winch and all the good stuff. We use to run the 450's and then a 850 but for comparison a tsk and a d7f are hard to beat. The 850 we had a winch and grapple setup on was a final eater, that said it did the job but still won't push like a 7 will. If you do get something have the mainline setup so the end is running a hook it'll make it easier to hook up in the long run to trucks.

[mike_belben]

Do you have a pic of the winch and grapple setup of the 850. Im trying to picture if this is a low final or hi drive machine