What wood Have I been sawing all day?

SwampDonkey · February 07, 2007, 10:45:28 AM

I gotta get some dry leaf pictures. ;)

SwampDonkey · February 07, 2007, 11:35:18 AM

Scarlet ??? ID Pending, non typical.

red

white

:

tonich · February 07, 2007, 12:28:33 PM

White Oak (Nice to meet you! :P)

WDH · February 07, 2007, 10:34:47 PM

The middle leaves are the scarlet, right? Seems to me that the top pic is northern red and the middle pic is scarlet, but that is not how you labeled them or I am reading it wrong?

SwampDonkey · February 08, 2007, 07:41:45 AM

top is scarlet: dead leaves turn bronze from scarlet red, very colorful. These are non native to my region and were picked at Bear Island campground.

middle is red: dead leave is light brown, this tree in the yard always goes from green to brown.

bottom white: dead leaves turn bronze with a hint of red from a scarlet red, very colorful.

This why I say leaves can be so variable.

I also know that the leave shape you linked to as scarlet oak, can also fit black oak. Black oak also looks like red oak leaves.

If you go one step further and pick shade leaves of red oak in the forest then the lobes are almost none existent with just pointy "cat's nails" for lobes.

black oak

WDH · February 08, 2007, 08:50:33 AM

When you say "red oak" which one are you referring to? Northern Red Oak?

I am really suspicious that the top leaves in the first pics you posted is scarlet oak. They are definitely not typical. Maybe their DNA got froze!

SwampDonkey · February 08, 2007, 10:14:53 AM

northern red, the only red oak native to NB. I've picked a lot of acorns off this tree and none have the concentric circles on the top of the acorn that are the signature of scarlet oak. Also, as I stated this tree does not have much red in the fall foliage, they go from green to orange-yellow to light brown when dead. This occurs in a short time. The cups are not deep on the acorns on this tree, deeper cups are characteristic of scarlet.

We'll reserve judgment on the scarlet oak leaves for now until I get to the park to see the source. The majority of evidence on the internet suggests that this is not scarlet. Possibly a hybrid. I may have been misinformed, but I was given this info from 2 different sources that do not know one another.

WDH · February 08, 2007, 10:46:37 AM

Yep, It might be a hybrid. Things don't always fit nicely in the pigeon holes, do they?

tonich · March 05, 2007, 07:07:37 AM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 07, 2007, 11:35:18 AM

Scarlet ??? ID Pending, non typical.

Is Pending over!? :

:P

SwampDonkey · March 05, 2007, 08:01:10 AM

Toni, no. I have to see the parent trees in late summer to get a look at the acorns. They should have concentric rings on the tip of the acorn. ;) All I know is that the texture and color of the dead leaves are a bit different and the fall color on those are scarlet red. Red oak isn't very spectacular in fall color.

SwampDonkey · March 05, 2007, 08:07:09 AM

Toni,

Ever see the leaves on a basswood seedling? Looks like wild geranium or buttercup leaves. When they get older they take on the typical heart-shape. Leaves are generally asymmetrical with the lower lobe on one side lower than the other. This is not always the case.

tonich · March 05, 2007, 09:31:39 AM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 05, 2007, 08:07:09 AM
Toni,

Ever see the leaves on a basswood seedling? Looks like wild geranium or buttercup leaves. When they get older they take on the typical heart-shape. Leaves are generally asymmetrical with the lower lobe on one side lower than the other. This is not always the case.

Yes, I have. Just as you’ve describe it!
--------

Note:
Lime is an important oak spouse here. Up to 10 – 15 % of composition is a very desired amount. There are even some unmixed basswood low-pole woods, but those are secondary stands, more a product of human activity, than a natural factor.

The following Limes are natively spread in Bulgaria:

Small-leaved Lime
Large-leaved Lime
Silver Lime

WDH · March 05, 2007, 05:23:30 PM

Swamp,

When you get those acorns, notice that the scarlet oak acorn has a cup that is bowl shaped covering about half the nut and the border of the bowl is fringed. The Nothern red acorn has a very shallow saucer shaped cut. You will not always see the concentric rings on the tip of the scarlett oak acorn. Sometimes it is not there or very hard to see. However, the acorn cups between the two species are very distinctly different.

You have tonich's interest picqued ( ;D), so let us know what you find out.

SwampDonkey · March 05, 2007, 05:57:36 PM

I wish Toni had brought up the fact that they call basswood lime or lime-tree in Europe. I would have been armed and ready when I tried to convince Gerald he had a basswood board, and not a citrus lime. We've worked it out since, after i found a reference from the US Forest Service and emailed him. ;D