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New Law in Tennessee:Native timber/lumber

Started by TnAndy, June 03, 2016, 09:19:05 PM

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Ianab

Locally the building inspector will use a moisture meter on the framing before he signs off on the interior cladding going up. If the wood has been out in the rain, it soon dries out once the roof and exterior cladding is in place.

Building with green wood and letting it DRY in place is a valid method, but enclosing green wood inside modern weather tight construction is a recipe for disaster. Looks fine from the outside, but sealed inside the wall is a mushroom farm.

But air drying to ~15% is easy and relatively quick.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Peter Drouin

It was what you said  Magicman, add the valve of the log and it would be unproductive/ uneconomical to cut your own. And I just disagree with that. If you cut your trees you can control the grade of lumber you get. I have a license to grade in NH. I cut customers logs to grade, If the log opens up and does not look good for 2" framing lumber it goes into 1".  You may have a license for down there and know how to grade lumber, I don't know. But your standing dead trees SYP would never pass up here for 2" and bigger lumber. It would all be cut into 1" maybe.

We have a snow load up here and can't use dead wood.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Straightgrain

Quote from: Ianab on June 04, 2016, 04:53:18 PM
Locally the building inspector will use a moisture meter on the framing before he signs off on the interior cladding going up. If the wood has been out in the rain, it soon dries out once the roof and exterior cladding is in place.

Building with green wood and letting it DRY in place is a valid method, but enclosing green wood inside modern weather tight construction is a recipe for disaster. Looks fine from the outside, but sealed inside the wall is a mushroom farm.

But air drying to ~15% is easy and relatively quick.

Oregon has what is known as a "Hippie Law" for residential structures in rural areas; they do not (strictly) enforce ceiling heights, ventilation, vapor barriers, etc if the "home" owner does not want a C of O. When I went through school for building inspection, they told us Oregon has the highest number of residential structures without indoor plumbing (nation wide).

I'm glad the guy who built this house wasn't a hippie. ;D
"We fight for and against not men and things as they are, but for and against the caricatures we make of them". Joseph Schumpeter

timberlinetree

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Kbeitz

Love it... I also agree Should be federal law..

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: Kbeitz on June 10, 2016, 06:38:09 AM
Love it... I also agree Should be federal law..


I'm shocked. With all your fancy fabrications would you really want to have to meet a bunch of high tech engineering specs and reviews on all your welding and structural support steel, angles, maximum load tests and such for every new piece of equipment you design and build for a special project? I don't think you'd ever get anything built.
Howard Green
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Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

Quote from: Peter Drouin on June 04, 2016, 09:25:01 PMIt was what you said  Magicman, add the valve of the log and it would be unproductive/ uneconomical to cut your own.
My statement was directed toward sawing framing lumber which is my niche.  Danny stated it well here:  LINK  Your business profile is completely different from mine so you serve your market and I serve mine.
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Peter Drouin

I will Magicman, Serving my customers with good [Graded] framing lumber.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

petefrom bearswamp

Earlier post.
2x4 and 2x6 are cheaper in the big box stores, 1-1/2 x3-1/2 and 1-1/2 by 5-1/2  vs my FULL 2X4 AND 2X6 Hemlock studs I saw and sell.
All my stock is sawed at FULL dimension.
Maybe this is why I dont get a big over run, but my customers are very happy..
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3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Peter Drouin

If you do the math, store 2x4 3,5 BF and full 2x4 5.3 you find you pay more for the store 2x4 by the BF and you have less wood.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

tobryant1

Well just another reason why Tennessee is the best State!   When I retire from the Navy I'm heading back home to build my own timber frame home.  I plan and dream about it all the time :P
Tennessee is the place for me

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Don P

The last I heard they were working out how they were going to do training. Is there anything new or a link to where TN is at now?

mike_belben

Thanks for all your hard work on this Andy. 


Todays price for a 2x6x12 in white pine is over $17 + 9.75% tax.. And most of us make under $15/hr.   
Praise The Lord

mudfarmer

NY "sort of" has this in place as well, but in usual dumb fashion they leave ultimate say up to the local code enforcement person.

NY Code Won't Require Lumber Grade Stamps | SBC Magazine

An interesting quote from Al DeBonis of Wood Advisory Services in the article in regards to a short lived program to teach code enforcement and local sawyers about grading (emphasis mine):

Quote"The interesting thing was that I had to bring defective wood samples with me because the material these small sawmillers would cut was generally well above No. 2. They would often say that if they cut material that bad, they would lose customers.  Also, the self certified material was most commonly used for homes, barns, farm structures, et cetera.  If it was highly engineered and needed something better than a No. 2 this process would not be valid."
;D

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Magicman on June 04, 2016, 01:48:25 PM
Most of the lumber restrictions are not "laws".  They are rules, guidelines, ordinances, and other self serving restrictions that various cities, counties, and municipalities adopt. 
This old guy from NB fought and won. An independent inspection found his construction exceeded codes. A bureaucracy playing bully.
'All I wanted to do is build a house' - The Globe and Mail
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Don P

QuoteMost of the lumber restrictions are not "laws".  They are rules, guidelines, ordinances, and other self serving restrictions that various cities, counties, and municipalities adopt.
That is actually not correct, in the US these are state laws.
Here's how construction codes work. BTW "Code" is just short for codified law, which simply means written law.

The International Code Council (ICC), a group of US building code experts, inspectors, fire, engineering, insurance, public, ect folks get together periodically and submit, debate, amend, and write proposed building codes. During that process there is a public comment period and they review and debate those. After that they vote on the changes and every 3 years they publish a "model code". The model code itself is a template with no force of law.

This is reviewed by state inspectors, stakeholders, etc and modifications are made. Things like the native lumber exemption, exemption from seismic or high wind provisions in the model code, anything the state wishes to change. 

The state code is then sent to the state legislature and if it passes it is adopted into the state lawbook. In my state the construction laws are a part of "The Code of Virginia" a very thick book that contains all the current laws from jaywalking to murder, the construction codes are just one section of all the codes (laws). With that review and time lag period in my state we are using the 2015 version of the code with state amendments. I think some states are still using the '06, some are on the '18. Most changes are minor. On 99% of it, the codes are uniform across the country.

It is doubtful you will get the ICC to exempt ungraded lumber. It is much more likely that you can get that done at the state level. If it is not exempted but if an inspector allows it he is choosing not to enforce the law. That is what many are experiencing. In some instances an inspector might allow the use of ungraded lumber if an engineer signs off on it, I was there under our last building official. Some may require a graders sign off. And then in some states there is some form of exemption.

The last I heard TN had not figured out how to make their native lumber law work, I don't know where it stands at this point

SwampDonkey

I'm no expert on the subject, just things I have come to know.

Here in Canada, the National Building 'Code' means model building code, it is not a law. But provinces adapt/tweak the model for their own provincial legislation/acts. The Canadian constitution says it is a provincial jurisdiction. There are a few municipalities that have had an historical right to their own.

Back in the 80's we had engineered plans and ungraded lumber to build a potato packing shed. An engineer signed off on the lumber to be used. This was not under the radar since government was in the know because they helped finance the construction. I asked dad in later years if it was graded lumber, he said it was all deemed #1. All buildings, dwellings or otherwise are inspected if over a minimum size and require permit.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

KEC

Here in Onondaga County, New York A few years ago I built a new porch on the front of my house. I used local native lumber from a local small mill, Eastern Hemlock and some Larch and some store bought. I broke tradition and got a building permit from the town. The inspector had no problem approving my choice of lumber. I felt good about using local native lumber.

Don P

As I'm remembering what was happening in TN. The law passed but one of the provisions was that you had to attend a grading class provided by UT. I'm not seeing one in a quick search. Adam Taylor there would probably be a good contact.

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