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what is wrong with the Knowledge Base?

Started by Tom, June 07, 2004, 03:48:49 PM

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Tom

Sometimes one of Ron's polls hits home.  This is one of them.

Knowledge Base access
Rarely: 51.90%
Monthly: 20.25%
Weekly: 11.39%
Never: 8.86%
What knowledge base?: 7.59%

What could be different that would  entice a member to look into or contribute to the Knowledge Base.  These numbers are embarrassing to me.

This says that we have folks who don't bother looking for information  that is already recorded.  What's worse, the figures indicate that we have folks who don't even care to contribute.

The knowledge base on the Forestry Forum, unlike a lot of other sites, is member-maintained.  There is no guru putting words of wisdom from the open ether on there, in a vacuum, removed from the other members.  It is a pallet for everyone's knowledge.

We apparently get hung up on chit chat and forget that there are knowledge seeking sponges out there who are constantly looking for the wisdom that has been reported to exist on this site. Chit Chat is fun and Chit Chat is nice but  too much candy will make a kid sick.

These numbers indicate to me that there is not much, if any, interest in compiling knowledge in an abbreviated base.  I know, it isn't the best format in the world but it is better than nothing and DanG sure better than trying to read the entire forum looking for a smidgen of help.

How many have paid much attention to the numbers?  There are roughly 69% of those answering the poll who apparently don't care if there is a knowledge base or not. The indication is that they know it all and/or have nothing to share.  That sure makes me sad.

Out of 1565 members, only 79 voted.  I understand that we have a lot of back-sliders.  I know there must be a lot of one time members.  but why can't we find more than  79 out of 1565?  Whose responsibility is it to interest the vast majority of Forestry/logging/sawmill/drying/chainsaw people in the Forum to the extent that they want to stick around?  Are they not interested because their isn't enough Forestry/logging/sawmill/drying/chainsaw conversation going on?  Maybe they feel that their isn't enough knowledge and they would rather go somewhere else.  What a mistake that is, but, appearance is important.

Has anyone any ideas on how to get this forum to a place that a visitor will perceive it as a semblance of what it is advertised to be?

Should we try to get the forum renamed?
Should we do away with the knowledge base as a useless entity?
Should we forget about developing a Link Library because of lack of interest?

Just some food for thought and an effort to understand.

Den Socling

Maybe the problem is simply this: if I have a problem, I describe it and somebody will tell me how to fix it. maybe that is the lazy way or maybe that is simply the fastest way. You-know-who at you-know-where sounds exasperated at times. His sometimes sour persona is something I can kind of understand. People keep asking the same questions instead of using the knowledge base.

Bruce_A

Hey;  Wait a minute,  I have been reading everything I can find the time to on this site for the last month.  I still am just barely finding my way around.  And every day I find a new aspect to this site that I like well enough to try and find the next time I can stop in.  I have other things I have to do such as making a living, and some other  things to hold my interest also.  I looked with what spare time I could for your poll to see what it was about and did not find it.  Sunday night a post said to check Monday. I didn't see it this morning and it is not 4 pm here yet and someone is saying it is over and I didn't get the results wanted.  This is a fantastic forum, so wait till I am caught up on the reading before you change it.  Everything seems to be getting good results here except the polls.  I hope the knowledge end of this forum is not dependent on the polls.       Bruce

Bibbyman

I'm with you guys. ;D

I don't remember answering the poll but I've used and added to the knowledge base -  where I thought I could help.  Often I've pointed back to it when answering a post on the Forum.  I hope this has raised some awareness of the feature.

Maybe we just all know everything and don't need no more knowledge ???  :P
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Jeff

QuoteThere are roughly 69% of those answering the poll who apparently don't care if there is a knowledge base or not. The indication is that they know it all and/or have nothing to share.  That sure makes me sad.

I would not interpret it that way at all. If so, I would be the poster boy for that statement. I created the knowledge base. Its existence is my fault. Do you know the last time I used it? If you do you got one on me.  I simply would rather use the format of the forum. The knowledge base is better suited to those that come to the forum seeking answers for something but have no intention of joining or maybe ever coming back. Those are the ones that use the knowledge base, not the ones who voted on the polls. The Knowledge base is our service, or contribution if you will, to those who come here seeking our knowledge.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

beenthere

Maybe we should recognize when knowledge is shared in response to questions (who? - forum members, or moderators who have enough to do) whether that knowledge should be transferred (copied) into the knowledge base. Sometimes answers are given that are opinions in the mind of the giver, and not thought of as THE absolute word that should go into the knowledge base. Just a thought.

I believe there is a lot of knowledge passed back and forth, some of which should be (such as Arkansawyers' description recently on sawing for grade in hardwood) (IMO) copied to the knowledge base.  
Hopefully, the knowledge base isn't canned because about 50 members said they never or infrequently went to it. I don't often go to it, but find the knowledge passed back and forth both entertaining, helpful, some supporting my own knowledge, and some that contradicts my own knowledge. I enjoy that giving of information from the members, and enjoy analyzing the members thoughts, experience, and background.
When knowledge is copied to the knowledge base, it should be so noted in the thread that it is (in someone's opinion) important knowledge and accurate (which may then raise a good debate on how accurate and important it is in the minds of the members).  Now, how is that gonna work?  Hmmm?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

etat

Well now I feel kinda buffaloed.  As a non sawyer I really don't know what I could contribute to the knowledge base.  Yet, sometimes I do feel I have something to contribute other than chitchat.    I absolutely can see your point, and where you're coming from.  What I don't have is THE answer.

I do really think it's great that someone can ask a question today and pretty much get an answer from someone that will be knowledgeable, and apply to his situation.  And next week, or the week after that someone else could ask the same or a similar question, and nobody here looks down on them for not knowing, or for not searching for an answer that has already been given.  Once again, the question will probably be answered without anyone condemning them for not knowing.  They might be directed to another thread or post that helps answer their question. But never are they demeaned or looked down upon as on some other forums.  

 The only other forum that comes to mind concerning questions that might get asked here seems to me gets very little activity in the way of personalized answers and folks that ask a question that was asked last week most always seems to get belittled for doing so.  And what answers are given there  are mostly very dry without a bit of ingenuity or daring to try to help someone who is trying something new or unproven.  No jokes, no personal friendships, are the rule there, unlike here.

Now that I think I've attempted to explain why I and so many others like this forum I finish with a question.  What can we do to improve the knowledge base and how do we as a group go about doing so.



Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Bibbyman

The Knowledge base is pretty well structured so you can get to topic fairly quickly.   But there are a lot of questions that haven't got answers in the Knowledge base but may well have been answered in the Forum someplace, some time.  

I think a lot of people don't look past the first page of the category index or they look a few pages and not see what the info they need and just ask again.    

I've a lot of practice using the Search function and still I have a hard time coming up with what I'm looking for – even though I know it's out there some place.  Tom and Jeff have done searches for early posts and linked them to add info to a repeat or similar question – kind of like further reading.

Maybe long threads get a little cumbersome but I try to go back and add to a few of the old ones just so I don't make a new one that just clutters up the landscape.  

As for adding to the knowledge base,  there is a lot of good experience and education that out there that is not being captured in the Knowledge base.  Some people don't feel comfortable "taking a stab" at putting things down in writing.  When they could explain or demo the topic quite well.

The posts I've made have all been a collaboration of some degree or another. Some are collections from a thread on the topic that was especially useful.

All this takes time and I've not had the time in the last 6 months to add to the Knowledge base.

Besides,  I've post about all I know. :-[
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Ron Wenrich

I guess I better jump inbto the fray.  I asked the question just to see how much activity there is on the knowledge base.  It doesn't seem to be too much since there are only a few contributions each month.  

The poll is on the front door.  If you can't find the poll, then you're not using the front door.  To find it, hit the "Forestry Forum" icon on the top left corner.  It'll take you to the front door.  

We get on the order of about 8,000 hits a week.  During the course of the poll there are 16,000 hits.  Only 79 votes.  Maybe we should have a poll to see how many people know of or use the front door.   :D  The average is about 105 votes.

There is a lot of knowledge on the forum, but a lot of it is buried and hard to search.  I went over to the sawing section and went back to some of the first posts.  In 2 pages, I found only 1 thread that I thought could be used in the knowledge base.   It was a discussion on chain for a chainsaw mill.  It was 2 pages long, but could have been condensed to 6 or 8 posts.  

Condensing posts certainly would make it easier to get info without wading through countless stories about assorted food groups and the like.  The stories makes things fun, but not for the person wanting information.  

One thing the knowledge base doesn't offer is the ability to post pictures.  On some of those threads, the pictures are really worth it.

We also don't do a very good job of promoting the knowledge base.  8% of those don't even know what it is and I doubt the 9% of the nevers know where its at.  

I am one of those who rarely go there.  Mainly because it doesn't change much.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Tom

Den
I know what you are talking about.  I don't mean that the Forestry Forum should be replaced by the Knowledge Base.  Asking is definitely a valid means of getting an answer.  All this good information isn't getting to the knowledge base and it's beyond one single person to select and update the thing. I go out there and just read it sometimes because I like what has been said.

Bruce_A
I apologize that you haven't found the polls.  You must be using a link that brings you directly into Forum.  The Forestry Forum Polls are found on the "Front Page" which is displayed when you link to www.forestryforum.com

The Poll doesn't really change that often.  This poll is the previous one and it was presented last week. Some Polls are on there quite a while.  Ron W does a good job of thinking up valid and challenging polls.  It's a hard job, but he's a smart fellow.

Bibbyman
Yep, you have put a lot of good stuff on the knowledge base.  Much of it was someone else's stuff and you captured it.  That's part of what I'm talking about when I'm talking about envolvement by members.

Jeff
I don't think you should look on the existance of the knowledge base as "a fault".  It's a genuine effort to capture some of the great stuff off of the forum and put it in a place that will answer questions more quickly than a forum search.  Here again, asking the question is still a good way to get an answer.  But, the knowledge base has more on it than how to line up a band blade or sharpen a circle saw.  There are Grits recipe's  :D and Bar-b-cue and cake recipe's, clean jokes, quotes, research data, wood working projects, business tips and even member's definitions of true friends.

These aren't the fodder of everyday conversation or necessarily the subject of a  question that may be often asked.  

I think you have done a good thing in creating the Base.  I wish we members would take the time to acknowledge it.

Beenthere
You say "Sometimes answers are given that are opinions in the mind of the giver, and not thought of as THE absolute word that should go into the knowledge base. "

I agree and have said it many times.  If you say something really brilliant humility may even keep you from putting it on the Knowledge base.  It shouldn't stop another member from putting it on there though......or at least suggesting that it be put there.  Recognition is a very valued commodity in this world.  To have a member base ask that your thoughts be saved is a real Star in your Crown.  

Part of my point is that we often take all of this stuff for granted.  We are complacent and stuff gets lost.

".........it should be so noted in the thread that it is (in someone's opinion) important knowledge and accurate (which may then raise a good debate on how accurate and important it is in the minds of the members)."

Now, that is a constructive comment. :)

cktate

"As a non sawyer I really don't know what I could contribute .............."

I think you are capable of contributing a great deal.  Look at the stuff you brought to light on Jeff's thread about roofing his house.  First of all you offered a nail gun, now that's comraderie if I ever saw it.  Then you went on for post after post to describe how to put a roof on the discombobulated roof design jeff was decribing.   Some of the posts even contained pictures.   Some of the other memebers put posts and drawings on as well.

Why haven't we tried to get that information onto the knowledge base?  It takes someone who knows what they are talking about to make the posts acceptable without just copying the thread.  You might even be a part of doing that.  It was great stuff!

"All the jokes and personal friendships are a part of this forum."  I acknowledge that.  I'm as bad about turning a thread around as anyone on the Forum.  I still think that it's important to capture those pearls of wisdom for future generations.  It may be that you would have to edit your own posts and suggest that they go to the Knowledge base.  There is really nothing wrong with
 Tootin' yer own horn now and again.  

Ron

Pictures would make it more valuable.  I think pictures can be put on there now.  But, you have to know web page stuff.  It seems that I saw some that Bibbyman put on there. :)

Bibbyman

Ron,  Picures CAN be added but it's a real bogger. (or is that bugger?)  The links have to be added in in HTML format and that's none too easy with a notepad txt editor.  And if you goof up - and it's reall easy to do,  you got to delete the post and re-add it.

One example of a Knowledge base post with pictures.

It sure would be nice if it were as easy as posting on the rest of the Forum.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Danny_S

There is nothing wrong with the knowlege base.

There is a library about 2 minute walk from me and I NEVER go there. But some go all the time so I dont think they will shut it down because Danny does'nt go...  ;)

If 1 person benifits from it, then I would leave it alone.
Plasma cutting at Craig Manufacturing

Fla._Deadheader

  I gotta add my .02 here. Quite a while back I took part in a post where the discussion on welding became the main topic. It involved explicit info on the what, why, and how-to of welding. CK, AD, and others took part. It produced some great info, just what the knowledge base is all about. There were several pages, if I remember correctly.

  Tom or Jeff or someone commented about the info should be put in the knowledge base. I responded, asking how does one edit several pages and put it in one place. No-one answered my request.

  I hope no-one gets upset, but, I, among other members, am NOT all that computer literate. I may be able to design and build things, but, I have very limited skills with a computer. When info is considered valuable enough to be put in the knowledge base, maybe someone WITH the skills should step up and HELP the author of that particular post, to get it added to the knowledge base. It all takes time that most of us do not have. Just BEING here and participating makes me happy. I enjoy the company and the people.

  Maybe I'm disillusioned, but, I feel that many members are barely able to participate on the forum, let alone do the editing necessary, and that's why a lot of info is not entered.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Bruce_A

Man oh Man!!  You guys[and gals] are great.     Good point Danny. And another good point deadcarp. If you give me a set of blue prints or even a good drawing I can build anything, be it wood or metal.  And most of my expertize is as a carpenter/pilebuck through the union.  But  I am a 15 word a minute typer and and just learned how to turn this computer on last summer.  I can saw very well with anything with a blade.  This comes from starting very young and being trained I think.  I have tried to do a lot of different things over the years,  sometimes with a little success  and sometime with not so much. But you are going to have to give me some more time before I can keep up with this forum.    











beit    

Fla._Deadheader

All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Kevin_H.

You know I read that in bruce's post and about fell off my chair laughing...Deadcarp...I dont know why but it just sounds funny...Sorry...Still laughing... :D :D
Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Bruce_A


etat

 Bruce that's too dang funny fer ya to be apologizing!!!!! :D :D :D ;D
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Bruce_A

Thanks, I am bouncing around between here and the country life forum and someone over there goes by Deadcarp.  I am still trying to keep up with all my reading before things are changed. After all the price of scrap steel has  dropped 40 to 60 percent since April 1st where I sell.

iain


iain

thats why i can say what poll?
 i cant remember the last time i come in the front door
 bang your poll on the gen board
but more importantly can any one explain in english and with words of no more than 4 letters how to use
"ritual monster cards from the fusion deck with a field spell card during the main phase include if you can a referance to the magician of faith" im having a bit of trouble keeping up with my boys :D
("your probably just to old to understand thing now" >:()
i think the knowledge base is good but you have to go a bit to beat the personal nature of the boards

Tom

Not me.
I like the front page. www.forestryforum.com

I'm greeted with my favorite links,  a poll, all the members that are on at the time, sometimes special notices and best of all, a random picture off of the gallery.  It's like the cover of a magazing to me and adds to the enjoyment of  signing on.

Quick links into sites that have good front pages are kinda like going to a Ritzey French Resturant and ordering a ham sandwich to-go.  Some may be that hard pressed for time....  Thank God I'm not. I'm trying to smell the roses along the way.

I have to admit that I use hot links into a lot of my plant research sites, thesaurus and dictionary sites, music and radio sites and stuff like that, but, the Forestry Forum is "home" and I don't skimp here.

I also still go to "milestones" where I play hangman, potato head and make funny pictures of Don Staples with "do things with Don on the picture drawing pad.

Hmmmm-m-  your post went away.

Jeff

It is that easy. And perfect for that kind of stuff. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Fla._Deadheader

  I got an IM from Tom today. He gave me some very good advice on how to edit a topic, to condense it down for posting into the knowledge base.

  He said he opens up his E-mail and copies whatever he wants to edit, in there. After editing, you can save it for a while, or, post it in the knowledge base.

  That's what I was trying to get across last night, when I posted about members needing help.  ::) ::)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Den Socling

I usually enjoy the pictures at the front door but somtimes.... I think it was last Sunday when I had skipped breakfast and was out here working. I checked into the forum and the Hawaiian breakfast with the Spam and eggs and all the goodies on the side!  :D I couldn't get back to work. I wandered from job to job but kept thinking about food!  ;)

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