Creative challenge for the inventive types - -

btulloh · July 05, 2020, 08:02:40 PM

I just retired my old Toro Z-turn mower after 14 years of duty. Engine issue. Repairable, but it's time to move on . . .

So . . . I'm going to remove the hydraulic assemblies and re-purpose them for some kind of sawmill help. I'm just putting this out there because I know a lot of you have good ideas, plus we all like to help spend someone else's money (and time). Let's hear what kind of ideas you come up with for making something useful for sawmill or associated sawmill tasks.

These hydro units, as you probably know, are self contained pump, motor, and reservoir. They have a lever for proportional control of speed and direction. I figure these take about 6 or 7 hp each in their normal duty. I would power them with either one or two small gas engines. Depending on the application, it may take even less HP. I can't give you the RPM's at the moment, but they are pretty smooth over the normal operation range from 0 to ?? rpms.

Sounds like they're just begging for a good sawmill job. Could be used to for motorized feed and would work pretty well. Could probably control one with a small stepper motor like a NEMA-17 for precise, repeatable speed control. So that's an obvious use, but that maybe best suited for an electric motor and use these for something more interesting. I can't see that one would provide the accuracy needed for up/down drive, but maybe I'm missing something on that.

Anyway, perhaps this will be fun to chew on for some of you and see what you can come up with for these hydro units. Just throwing it out there . . .

btulloh · July 05, 2020, 08:10:58 PM

The engine BTW spit out the valve guides in one cylinder, and then bent the push rods. No internal damage. The valve guides can be put back in place and then use some precision peening to hold them in position. More of bush fix, but can be ok. It may be worth doing the real fix, which is a new head (or two). I need to assess the general state of the engine and see if it's worth it at this point. B&S 23 hp Intek V-twin. It's been good to me, but there's a lot of hours on it and probably past it's life expectancy. Nice little power plant for something non-critical maybe. (Vertical shaft).

For now I'll probably just pull it and set it aside until winter and then investigate further.

Don P · July 05, 2020, 08:59:07 PM

Well if the engine and drives are workable, I've always thought something along the lines of one of those iron horse skidders for little stuff would be fun.

moodnacreek · July 05, 2020, 09:45:44 PM

I put aside a zero turn drive unit and hyd. motor to put on my edger. The idea was to have variable feed. I now have a little 4 speed car trans. but it is hard to shift on the go. Just this morning we sawed 4 16' locust that had to be 2x6 and 2x8 and quite a bit of it had to be edged. I was all 2" but other times there would be 1x mixed in and it is a pain to saw 1x in creeper or up shift and then have to down shift for the next 2x. Another great idea I didn't do.

farmfromkansas · July 05, 2020, 11:01:13 PM

I would probably get one of the Predator motors from HF and keep using the mower. Our old ZTR is 16 years old, and running great. If it is one of the better grade mowers, your hydrostat units are repairable. I have an old Country Clipper I use at the farm that has 1500 plus hours on it. My wife's mower has over 1200 hours. Xmark

btulloh · July 06, 2020, 08:57:56 AM

Quote from: Don P on July 05, 2020, 08:59:07 PM
Well if the engine and drives are workable, I've always thought something along the lines of one of those iron horse skidders for little stuff would be fun.

That's interesting. It would be mighty small. What do you see skidding with it?

Don P · July 06, 2020, 09:23:06 AM

Firewood, tops, small logs. Thinking about it last nite, it is really set up for more speed/less power. A self transporting winch platform? I did pick up a new replacement 19hp Intek for I think about $700 a couple of years ago.

btulloh · July 06, 2020, 09:35:19 AM

Some sort of mover, maybe a motorized pallet. Plenty of time to figure it out before I get a "round tuit".

I've enjoyed keeping this mower going beyond it's life expectancy. I feel like I won the game this time. It doesn't owe me a thing. When this engine thing happened, I sort of lost the enthusiasm for the game or I'd keep it going. I still may, but all in all, it's time to retire it. I picked up a new one Friday. Right now I just don't have time to fuss with the lawnmower, I just need to cut grass. Plus it's a great opportunity to add to my pile of "one of these days" items to re-purpose.

Looking forward to some more inspiration. A lot of the inventors here haven't checked in. I suspect they were enjoying their weekend.

Crusarius · July 06, 2020, 10:36:39 AM

I often thought about making something like a Centaur or Argo. problem is I was never happy with 2 wheels driving the tracks. Always wanted at least 4 drives.

I have thought about what your thinking now, I can't really figure out how it could truly benefit the sawmill. Of course now that I think about it again, use one for a log loading winch and the other for a log turner. the variable speed would be great for both of those.

btulloh · July 06, 2020, 11:31:45 AM

Yeah, running a chain turner with one would be perfect I think. I just haven't thought about making a chain turner - I've been planning the arm-style turner. Got to put some thought into the chain turner fab.

My log loading is doing pretty well as is, with a log deck I load with the FEL. No need to improve that. Turning, clamping, power-feed, power up-down, power toe boards - all those would be useful, but not sure where this fits into any of those.

Crusarius · July 06, 2020, 02:49:15 PM

not just a chain turner. I bet you could figure out a claw turner. and toe boards suddenly comes to mind. use the hub on the motor and just put an offset arm off center then it can rotate either direction and never jam.

btulloh · July 06, 2020, 03:46:16 PM

Yeah, but both the claw and the toeboards are linear motion, so maybe not the best use for the motor type units. I figure I should try to use them where I need rotary motion with speed and direction control.

Keep those ideas rolling though, you're pretty good at comin' up with stuff . . .

Crusarius · July 06, 2020, 04:17:45 PM

The crazy idea and useless knowledge section in my brain is huuuuge

ever want something to kill time go to youtube and look up linear motion systems that only exist on paper. That will keep you busy for hours.

Come to think of it you could use those motors for backstops. Just be a fun linkage to build.

terrifictimbersllc · July 06, 2020, 04:51:05 PM

Maybe make all the jacks hydraulic and self leveling. Be fun to push a button and watch the mill set itself up. :laugh:

farmfromkansas · July 06, 2020, 06:52:39 PM

I would help out but my inventive gene is nonexistent. I can fix things, but build something new? Do like to make things go way beyond their life expectancy. How many hours do you have on your old mower?

Den-Den · July 06, 2020, 07:17:50 PM

In my opinion one of those drives would be perfect for power feed, a sprocket in place of the lawnmower wheel would drive a roller chain and pull your mill through the log and back. The other could power an up/down system. Building a set-works to control the vertical travel would be a challenge but seems do-able. The drives are more powerful than needed for either job, so it would be wise to build with something to limit output torque (perhaps a shear pin, perhaps a v-belt that would slip).

btulloh · July 06, 2020, 07:23:15 PM

Quote from: farmfromkansas on July 06, 2020, 06:52:39 PMHow many hours do you have on your old mower

The hour meter stopped working right after it passed 2200 hours. That was last fall. I could still make it work, but it's gotten to the point of diminishing returns.

farmfromkansas · July 06, 2020, 08:41:08 PM

I was looking for a used ZTR a couple years ago, and saw an Xmark with over 3000 hours for sale. Still running. So figured my old mowers with 1200 and 1500 hours are low hour machines.

mike_belben · July 08, 2020, 02:49:10 AM

Yours has non integrated pump and wheelmotors right? So two seperate pumps and two wheel motors?

Make a rosser head debarker. One pump drives both tires, spinning the log. The other pump walks the planer down a linear rail. Bonus points if you build it on your current mill bed.

Or chain turner plus mill carriage feed. Youve got two separate hydrostatic transmissions to work with, and each of those only takes one.

btulloh · July 08, 2020, 07:31:30 AM

Interesting idea on the debarker, Mike. Never thought about having one, but it would be nice. Maybe it could double for firewood cleaner with the addition of a drum that could be set on when needed. Might be better at the first stage of the log deck than on the mill bed.

BTW - these are integrated units - pump,motor,reservoir.