What is a professional chain and should I use one?

[CMayo]

I'm a rural home user who occasionally needs to use chainsaws but who has little experience with them. I bought a saw from a guy this week and mentioned that my saws (Echo CS590, CS3510) didn't seem to cut that well sometimes. Hand-sharpening improves their performance somewhat but it never gets them back to their original performance, and it doesn't take any time at all before the shavings thrown by the sharpened saw turn to sawdust again. Most of the wood I cut is oak (post oak, white oak) if that makes any difference, and I mostly use the saws to cut up fallen limbs and the occasional toppled tree.

He suggested that maybe I should use a professional chain instead of the consumer-class chains at Home Depot. I don't know what a professional chain is, but "full chisel" is turning up in my search results. So that's my first question, what is a professional chain?

My next question is whether a professional chain would be significantly more dangerous for a relatively inexperienced user like me. How would a professional chain affect my saw's handling and behavior?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[lxskllr]

Welcome! A "professional" chain would be considered full chisel, and wouldn't have a safety mechanism on the chain. IMO, it's more important to have a quality chain, and know how to sharpen it. Dunno what you're getting at homedepot, but I wouldn't consider anything that wasn't Stihl, Oregon, Husqvarna, or Carlton. A well sharpened semi chisel chain with safety bumps will still do a good job of throwing chips. I'd look into getting a Stihl/Pferd 2in1 sharpener, and a quality chain. See if that improves performance for you.

"Safety" chain will be a smidge safer with regards to kickback, but only a smidge, and it comes at the cost of reduced boring performance. That may or may not factor into your decision.

[Ljohnsaw]

My Stihl Farm Boss (NOT a professional saw ;)) came with a green dot chain.  That is the safest, anti-kickback chain they make.  i.e. - doesn't bite too hard.  You have to file down the rakers every now an then as you sharpen to keep them cutting.  I wore that chain out - filled off the teeth after years of use.  I bought some replacement Stihl chains off of eBay.  They are the yellow dot chains.  Probably more due to bad filing practice, but these new chains cut like a hot knife through butter compared to the old green dot.  The Stihl warning on the yellow dot is that they are not for the non-professional as they are more aggressive. ;)

[btulloh]

I think your first sentence in your opening post indicates that you should stay away from pro (yellow) chain.  Safety chain (green dot) will work fine and is safer for an inexperienced and untrained user. Like mentioned above, buying a better class safety chain is a good investment. The brands mentioned have good chain, but most make a lower end chain as well, so it's not just the brand you need to look for.  Oregon in particular has some low end chain that I like to stay away from, but they make some good stuff also.  For me the Stihl RS chain keeps an edge better so that's what I stick with. 

Your best bet for better long lasting performance is to improve your sharpening skills AND maintain the proper depth gauge (raker) height. A really sharp chain with the rakers too high will barely cut.  A lot of occasional users ignore the rakers and wonder why the performance isn't what it used to be.

As above, the 2in1 systems from perfrd or stihl or ?? Are a good way to go since they are easier to learn and do the sharpening and raker height at the same time.

A properly hand filed chain will be equal to or better than a new chain out the box.

[CMayo]

Thanks lots for everyone's comments and I think you're right in that my issue is more with my lack of skill with sharpening than the chain design. I gave up using a file when my saws started wanting to curve during a cut. I've been using a Harbor Freight electric sharpener hoping the keep the left and right cutters matched and the HF sharpener seems to do a wonderful job on the cutters but doesn't touch the depth gauges/rakers at all, and yeah, I've always suspected the rakers were my real issue with keeping the chains cutting right. I've tried gauges like the Oregon 31941 where I'm supposed to file off the part of the raker that sticks up out of the gauge, but there's never any raker showing when I put the gauge across the cutters. Sigh.

I'll keep trying to improve my sharpening. The guy I bought the CS3510 (Echo, 16", 34cc) from said that he prefers to just touch up the chain as he goes along, and I've been waiting until the chain gets frustratingly dull before trying to sharpen it. I cut up some fence posts with the 3510 this week and did a light filing halfway through the job (maybe 20 cuts into a 40 cut job) and the filed chain was started pulling the posts into the saw where the new chain didn't, and I've read that a sharp chain is supposed to pull itself into the work, right?

Honestly, I wish Home Depot or someone would hold some seminars on saw use and upkeep. It's been really hard for me to translate wild guesses and YouTube videos into practical skills.

Thanks again.

[mike_belben]

whats a pro chain?  

one that actually cuts wood!  do recommend. just dont stick it into your leg.  any chain will open you up. 

[peakbagger]

I was taught bore cutting and always had to fight a bit on them. I got a pro chain and my bore cuts suddenly got a lot easier. 

The one comment is I use full safety gear, dont even think about it playing with pro chain unless you do the same.

[Iwawoodwork]

We used the "Professional" chisel bit chains when I worked at Weyco, but we were not cutting dirty firewood.  When I started cutting my own firewood I first was cutting with the used Weyco chains as we could purchase them cheap. I found out that converting the chisel bit to round file cutters was better for me for cutting firewood, seemed like the round was a little more forgiving if I happened to touch a little dirt and was easier/quicker to touch up the chain with a GOOD round file.  Also there are good files and not good files some are to coarse.  I now use a round diamond bit in a rotary grinder(Dremel type) and my Harbor Freight chain grinder and for my chisel bit chains I use a Simmons professional chain grinder.

[John Mc]

We used the "Professional" chisel bit chains when I worked at Weyco, but we were not cutting dirty firewood.  When I started cutting my own firewood I first was cutting with the used Weyco chains as we could purchase them cheap. I found out that converting the chisel bit to round file cutters was better for me for cutting firewood, seemed like the round was a little more forgiving if I happened to touch a little dirt and was easier/quicker to touch up the chain with a GOOD round file.  Also there are good files and not good files some are to coarse.  I now use a round diamond bit in a rotary grinder(Dremel type) and my Harbor Freight chain grinder and for my chisel bit chains I use a Simmons professional chain grinder.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it sounds as though you are confusing Chisel chain with square filed chain. These are two different things. A full chisel chain is still a full chisel chain, regardless of whether you use a round or a square file on it.

[Lostinmn]

I'm no pro but grew up using chainsaws to keep our home, grandmas and the neighbors stocked with wood each year.

While we no longer need wood for heat other then the lake cabin, I use a stihl MN 362 with full chisel for firewood and logs for our hobby sawmill. 

I really like the STIHL 2 in 1 Easy File Chainsaw Chain Sharpener.  Makes keeping the angles on the tooth easy as pie and also takes the depth gauges or rakers as we called them filed down to perfect height. Makes keeping chains sharp and cutting nice a breeze, super quick for touch ups in the field.

My two cents!

[John Mc]

Cmayo -

First, welcome to the Forestry Forum. It's a great community to be a part of. When you get a chance, please fill out your profile. It does help for some questions to know where someone is from, since that gives us an idea of what you may be facing when working in the woods.

It does sound as though much of your problem may be in your sharpening. A well sharpened chain not only cuts well when freshly charpened, but also holds its edge for a reasonable amount of time.

You also need to keep your chain out of the dirt when cutting. Even a slight brush with the ground (or worse, a rock or something metal), and your cutting edge is ruined. It can also happen if the logs you are cutting are especially dirty: that grit just wears on a chain.

As far as learning to sharpen the chain goes, it can be hard for someone new to it to judge whether the YouTube video they are watching is actually giving good advice or not. It can be frustrating, since you really need to already know the answers in order to judge whether the person offering the film actually knows what they are talking about. Unfortunately, when it comes to YouTube in general, there are more people who think they know what they are talking about than there are people who actually do know.

One of the best videos I've seen on sharpening a chain saw can is this one:
The Art and Science of Sawchain Sharpening.
Unfortunately, it's not free, but the price is reasonable: you can download it for $7, or order it on DVD for $10. I don't recommend the 99¢ rental option, since if you are new to it, it's nice to be able to go back and watch again as a refresher. It's worth a look.
[NOTE: I have no connection to the company offering it other than the fact that I have taken some of their live courses in chainsaw/tree felling efficiency and safety. I get nothing for recommending the video.]

If I recall correctly, the video does not touch on the Stihl 2-in-1 / Pferd CSX chain sharpening systems, which can be a good option as well. I do not use it, but a couple of friends do, and like it. It's easy to learn, but there are still a couple of things to watch out for. Like any sharpening system, when not used properly, you don't get good results.

[421Altered]

Welcome CMayo!  I know how you feel, I was in the same boat as you about 35 years ago!  Best thing to do is go buy you a good quality semi-chisel green, safety, chain from a name brand, put it on, and every time you fill your saw up with fuel, including in the woods, get your 2-1 out and hit the cutter's and rakers about 3-4 strokes.  That way you keep a very sharp chain on your saw and get lots of practice sharpening.  Another thing is if you wait too long in between sharpening, you will be filing and filing and filing!!  lolAnd it's a good time to take a break and size up what you've done and what you need to do to safely finish your job.  Just make sure you get the correct size 2-1 for your chain.  The 2-1 is sized for the pitch of your chain, which is the same pitch as etched into your bar.  Just keep cutting and enjoying it and before you know it, it will be easy!  The KEY to successful hand filing for me is keeping the bar and saw stationary while you file.  One other thing I've found is if you have a saw shop sharpen your chain, or anybody else with a grinder,  and they overheat the cutter's, and when you try to hand file them later, it's almost impossible to sharpen with a file, it harden's the tooth.  Good luck!

[thecfarm]

I don't think a "professional" chain would be more dangerous. You are wearing the correct safety gear, chaps, boots, gloves and so on?
Takes practice to get a chain sharp. Took me a while to catch on. Really the key is, remember what you did when it don't cut well and remember what you did when it does cut well.  ;)

[btulloh]

We talked all around it but seems like a time to actually define terms.

What we're calling "professional" chain is chain without the reduced kickback feature.  Chains are sold as reduced kickback chain (green) or regular chain (yellow).  Home centers like HD, etc. don't even carry anything but reduced kickback chain. Even some pro dealers won't sell the  yellow chain to someone if they don't know the lingo and sound like a homeowner.

I usually wouldn't disagree with thecfarm (except on the subject of grits :D) but I think you need to be aware of how to keep the nose out of kickback territory and have some real experience or training or stay with the low kickback stuff.  I see homeowners lose track of the nose and what's on the other side of the log frequently. Full PPE is good, but a strong kickback is most likely going to cause injury in spite of the helmet and shield. Many occasional users tend to have the bar lined up right in the middle of their head and not off to the side too.

The safety chain cuts fast enough if you're just cutting a little firewood or doing cleanup occasionally. Neither one cuts unless it's sharp.

[Skeans1]

We used the "Professional" chisel bit chains when I worked at Weyco, but we were not cutting dirty firewood.  When I started cutting my own firewood I first was cutting with the used Weyco chains as we could purchase them cheap. I found out that converting the chisel bit to round file cutters was better for me for cutting firewood, seemed like the round was a little more forgiving if I happened to touch a little dirt and was easier/quicker to touch up the chain with a GOOD round file.  Also there are good files and not good files some are to coarse.  I now use a round diamond bit in a rotary grinder(Dremel type) and my Harbor Freight chain grinder and for my chisel bit chains I use a Simmons professional chain grinder.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it sounds as though you are confusing Chisel chain with square filed chain. These are two different things. A full chisel chain is still a full chisel chain, regardless of whether you use a round or a square file on it.

Depends on where you're at, chisel out on the wet coast is square chisel, if you walked into a rigging shop and asked for chisel you'll get square if it's a good shop. Now go to the same shop and ask for round you'll get round full chisel chain and if you ask for chipper it's semi chisel.

[Skeans1]

I've ran the safety chains that has the standard depth gauge/rakers with a bumper on the outer link it can cut just as fast as the standard chain if sharpened correctly. There's a few different classes of safety chain available as well they all have their place, but if I had to run one it'd be the ones like I described as above. Most guys here will disagree with me, but it doesn't matter who's chain it is fresh off the roll cuts like garbage in my opinion it needs the rakers dropped before it even hits wood to make it cut. If you want to talk fast, smooth, and reliable square can be hard to beat if you know how to sharpen it to what you need to cut is one of the biggest thing no matter what the chain is.

 

 

   
These are roughly how I roughly sharpen chains depending on conditions and where I'm cutting.

[Real1shepherd]

I don't want to get into the controversy of 'professional' chain versus safety chain, as I've run .404 square file pro Oregon chain all my life. For firewood and homeowner/weekend warrior tasks it's probably overkill and certainly you don't want to encourage an accident by a novice with pro chain.

The biggest problem I see with CMayo's issues is waiting too long to sharpen his chain. He just needs to stop and sharpen rather than keep hammering a dull chain. Doesn't matter how strong or big you are, the harder you push a dull chain, the worse your cutting experience. And as was said previously, properly sharpened chain will cut better than a factory grind out of the box, or off a roll.

The first loggin' show I was put on, they gave me some crummy yellow saw with a dull chain. I fought that thing like a tiger but at the end of the day, it had me beat and frustrated. Finally, someone showed me the ins & outs of sharpening chain and the whole world of chainsaws opened up to me.

I have a great saw buddy in Canada who belongs to a 4wheeler group that clears trails. He says some of the guys never sharpen their chain! This is pure madness as they're just gnawing on wood like old beavers missing teeth.

Kevin 

[Spike60]

Should be noted that this yellow/green advice is all "stihl speak" as that is how they code their chains for safety vs non safety. It doesn't apply to other brands of chain. Echo branded chain, if that's what you are buying at home depot, is private labeled for them by Oregon, so it is also quality chain. I'd stay away from the oddball chinese chains.

Lotta good sharpening advice here, but I'm curious as to why your saws are getting dull so quickly. If you are starting out throwing decent chips, then your sharpening skills aren't half bad. Dirty wood, hitting the ground and such certainly speed up the dulling process. Under those conditions, the semi chisel cutters found on most "safety" chains are far better than the full chisel cutters on the pro chains. The full chisel cutters are faster out of the box, but far less forgiving in dirty conditions. Once you lose that point on the cutter the performance goes downhill fast. Semi-chisel chains are more tolerant of dirty wood, and are actually easier to sharpen. Less file strokes to bring them back to where they were, as they typically have less damage to be removed. And you don't need to be as perfect with your angles when filing.

So, I'm gonna go against the grain here and suggest you don't need to go the pro chain route. Just be a little more careful when cutting and work on your sharpening skills. As a group here, we all like to have the word "pro" attached to whatever we are doing. Pro saws running pro chain, while wearing pro socks in our pro boots. It's not always the answer.

[lxskllr]

For bucking really filthy wood, I've been getting good results boring into the top, cutting down the side, then either using the top of the bar for the other side, or changing positions to get the rest. The idea is to minimize cutting dirt, and to not drag dirt through the kerf while you're cutting.

[John Mc]

Should be noted that this yellow/green advice is all "stihl speak" as that is how they code their chains for safety vs non safety. It doesn't apply to other brands of chain. Echo branded chain, if that's what you are buying at home depot, is private labeled for them by Oregon, so it is also quality chain. I'd stay away from the oddball chinese chains.

Lotta good sharpening advice here, but I'm curious as to why your saws are getting dull so quickly. If you are starting out throwing decent chips, then your sharpening skills aren't half bad. Dirty wood, hitting the ground and such certainly speed up the dulling process. Under those conditions, the semi chisel cutters found on most "safety" chains are far better than the full chisel cutters on the pro chains. The full chisel cutters are faster out of the box, but far less forgiving in dirty conditions. Once you lose that point on the cutter the performance goes downhill fast. Semi-chisel chains are more tolerant of dirty wood, and are actually easier to sharpen. Less file strokes to bring them back to where they were, as they typically have less damage to be removed. And you don't need to be as perfect with your angles when filing.

So, I'm gonna go against the grain here and suggest you don't need to go the pro chain route. Just be a little more careful when cutting and work on your sharpening skills. As a group here, we all like to have the word "pro" attached to whatever we are doing. Pro saws running pro chain, while wearing pro socks in our pro boots. It's not always the answer.

The only thing I would add to that is that if you are free-hand filing with just a bare round file, and are dropping the file too deep, the cutter will have too much hook on the tooth. It may feel great to begin with: that extra hook makes for an aggressive chain, but it will not last. The effect is far more noticeable on full chisel chain than it is on semi chisel (one of the reasons semi-chisel is more forgiving to sharpen).
Some saw chain manufacturers (I've mostly noticed it on Oregon) seem to be going for the out of the box "wow" factor and putting a lot of hook on their chains from the factory. The amount of hook does not even meet their own specifications for re-sharpening. The chains do cut aggressively right out of the box - probably so people get that initial "wow! This chain is really good!" and want to buy more. It takes a sharpening or two to bring it back to a profile that actually has some durability - especially in hardwoods.

[thecfarm]

btulloh, Thank You for catching that. I was not thinking about that. Something that I am aware of when sawing, but something that I really don't even think about. I just do it without thinking about it.  ;)

[grabber green]

Low kickback chain should never be called safety chain. It gives the wrong idea that you won't cut yourself . The doc at the  medical center won't be able to tell what kind of chain you were using as he patches you up.   Learn how to use a saw properly ,sharpen it when its dull  and keep it in good working order. Buy yourself some regular chain when your low kickback loops wear out. Low kickback stuff will never cut as good as regular chain ever. Remember there are a lot of other ways to get hurt while sawing wood than just getting cut. Whatever happens......                                                                                                                                    Use one simple rule ,"strive to only cut 100% wood" ,0% dirt,rocks,metal,human flesh,ect!!!!

[Real1shepherd]

Should be noted that this yellow/green advice is all "stihl speak" as that is how they code their chains for safety vs non safety. It doesn't apply to other brands of chain. Echo branded chain, if that's what you are buying at home depot, is private labeled for them by Oregon, so it is also quality chain. I'd stay away from the oddball chinese chains.

Lotta good sharpening advice here, but I'm curious as to why your saws are getting dull so quickly. If you are starting out throwing decent chips, then your sharpening skills aren't half bad. Dirty wood, hitting the ground and such certainly speed up the dulling process. Under those conditions, the semi chisel cutters found on most "safety" chains are far better than the full chisel cutters on the pro chains. The full chisel cutters are faster out of the box, but far less forgiving in dirty conditions. Once you lose that point on the cutter the performance goes downhill fast. Semi-chisel chains are more tolerant of dirty wood, and are actually easier to sharpen. Less file strokes to bring them back to where they were, as they typically have less damage to be removed. And you don't need to be as perfect with your angles when filing.

So, I'm gonna go against the grain here and suggest you don't need to go the pro chain route. Just be a little more careful when cutting and work on your sharpening skills. As a group here, we all like to have the word "pro" attached to whatever we are doing. Pro saws running pro chain, while wearing pro socks in our pro boots. It's not always the answer.

Makes sense to me. You have customers coming and going all the time, so you can ask about their cutting conditions, their experience and recommend a chain style. That's really how it should be and how it used to work at saw shops.

Someone forced to work on chainsaws as part of a tractor dealership or one with limited chainsaw experience is not gonna make the best recommendations. Worse yet is someone working at a box store trying to match you up with the appropriate chain.

Kevin

[KEC]

If I could add anything to all this good advice, it is important that your file isn't too old. And, for me, sharpening with the bar held in a bench vice helps me do a better job at filing correctly.

[Tacotodd]

It's not the "age" of the file, it's how sharp it is. 

Takes sharp to make sharp.