battery losing charge

[moodnacreek]

No either ever on this Perkins, if the barely turns, it starts and if sprayed it with a weak battery it would just stop . I think this engine has a flame glow plug starting devise. The whole issue is keeping the battery ready. I am starting to wonder if the alternator cuts out too early.

[mike_belben]

get a meter and call me and we will find out. 

[newoodguy78]

Are you sure the alternator is meant to operate on the speed of that engine? 
 
Had an old school starter/alternator repair man tell me different alternators start charging at different rpms. His point was sometimes you can take can take an alternator off a gas engine and swap it to a diesel without issue other times you can't all depends on how it's wired internally. I'll openly admit that part is over my head. 
 
I've now been doing business with him for three years he's really helped me out a few times great guy. 

Wondering if maybe that's your issue? 
Colder weather maybe you let it idle a lot more than when it's warm? Leading to the alternator charging to its full potential?

[moodnacreek]

Are you sure the alternator is meant to operate on the speed of that engine?

Had an old school starter/alternator repair man tell me different alternators start charging at different rpms. His point was sometimes you can take can take an alternator off a gas engine and swap it to a diesel without issue other times you can't all depends on how it's wired internally. I'll openly admit that part is over my head.

I've now been doing business with him for three years he's really helped me out a few times great guy.

Wondering if maybe that's your issue?
Colder weather maybe you let it idle a lot more than when it's warm? Leading to the alternator charging to its full potential?

Never thought of that. The machine is all original. Now with the chains on it is run just above an idle. But the problem is year around. If it was to sit for 2 weeks in July it would crank real slow. I have to stop fooling around and start using a volt meter.

[newoodguy78]

Electrical is my shortfall for sure. Since working here I've been forced to learn it. A multi meter really is a good investment glad I bought mine. 
FWIW that conversation I spoke of stemmed from an intermittent dead battery on a tractor here. Looking back when it was doing something that required rpms for most of the day it would usually start the next day not always. If it did something like transplanting or cultivating where it pretty much idled for most of the day it usually didn't start. 
As per his advice swapped it out with the proper one and it's been fine since. Thought he was just trying to sell me something was I wrong. 

[barbender]

My Case skid steer alternator doesn't start charging until you bump the rpms up. Seems like that was common on older diesel alternators iirc. My machine has a super irritating alarm that goes off when you start it, until you bump the rpms 200 or so rpms. Just a blip then its charging, even if you let it back down to idle.

[Ianab]

Back in the day I had just bought a used Holden (GM Australia) car from out of town. I'd been driving it a few days, fixed some minor problems, and it all seemed good. 

Until the trip home. About 9 at night I stop in a town about an hour from home for a snack, and the car wont start.  :( Close enough to home to call Dad, ask him to grab a spare battery and jumper leads etc from the shed. Got the car running and got home. 

Next day, trouble shooting... 

Turns out the Regulator was a pretty basic one. It had 2 settings, full charge, or "trickle". When the battery voltage got high enough, it dropped back to the low setting, which was enough to run the car and put a small charge back in the battery, It was stuck on the low setting. Driving in the day, decent distances, it kept the battery charged enough. But a couple of hours night driving, with the extra halogen driving lights, and the battery soon went flat 

Replaced the old regulator with a more modern (electronic) one, problem solved.  But it took a few minutes to figure that one out, because with the car running the battery voltage was a nice 13.? volts, as it should be. It was only when you turned on the lights, it dropped down to ~12.?, meaning the battery was actually being gradually discharged, because the alternator wasn't switching up to the higher output. 

Hence the value of a multi-meter. 

[Magicman]

My LT40 saws at 3K and idles at 1500 rpm's to insure that the alternator is supplying the max at all times which  is per Wood-Mizer spec.  The voltage never drops below ~14.5.

[moodnacreek]

Ok, somebody left a multi meter here and I found it. Tested at 12.7 V this morning @ 29 degrees, just enough to turn over and start, she goes up to 13.7 V right away. I am thinking the starter wants high voltage or nothing.

[Hilltop366]

My backhoe is a bit slow turning which makes it hard to start (Cummings 4b), I was worse a couple of years ago so I took the starter apart and had new brushes put in as they were getting worn, that speed it up quite a bit and started better but it is getting slow again.

[rusticretreater]

I would like to see 14.2 v+ from a charging system in a 12 volt system. This is what is expected of automobiles at least.  You might want to check on the specs for this.  A blown alternator diode can reduce the output of an alternator.  I know nothing about fork lifts, but the physics of the battery/electricity is the same.  The charging system appears to be working, but not good enough IMO.  The starter might also be bad or going, but you cannot confirm this unless you know the charging system is A-OK.

Here is a link to a great document of testing procedures for charging systems.

https://pdf4pro.com/view/troubleshooting-the-alternator-and-forklift-charging-circuit-4f7ce1.html

[moodnacreek]

I would like to see 14.2 v+ from a charging system in a 12 volt system. This is what is expected of automobiles at least.  You might want to check on the specs for this.  A blown alternator diode can reduce the output of an alternator.  I know nothing about fork lifts, but the physics of the battery/electricity is the same.  The charging system appears to be working, but not good enough IMO.  The starter might also be bad or going, but you cannot confirm this unless you know the charging system is A-OK.

Here is a link to a great document of testing procedures for charging systems.

https://pdf4pro.com/view/troubleshooting-the-alternator-and-forklift-charging-circuit-4f7ce1.html

I thought anything over 12V was good, but like the T shirt says " i am a 6 volt guy in a 12 volt world" Anyhow it is catching up to Me. One of the problems is that if this machine turns over it starts so you don't know things are slowing down until they stop. No warning like with other engines. Thanks for telling Me the voltage and being it is a diesel it should be on the high end.

[Magicman]

Tested at 12.7 V this morning @ 29 degrees,

12.7 is a good fully charged battery.  A battery can not do any better than that if it has the proper CCA rating for your application.

[Crusarius]

My zero turn mower always has a fuel prime issue. SO to many times I have to let it crank for a while to get the fuel back in the carb. I kept thinking I had a bad battery cause it was always dead when I went to start it every week. or at least low enough it wouldn't turn over. After putting some thought into it I realized the longer the starter cranked the slower it got. Ends up the starter was bad. it was only obvious when it basically seized up during long cranks. But once it cooled off it worked fine.

[scsmith42]

Ok, somebody left a multi meter here and I found it. Tested at 12.7 V this morning @ 29 degrees, just enough to turn over and start, she goes up to 13.7 V right away. I am thinking the starter wants high voltage or nothing.

If you have a helper, watch how much the voltage drops while it's being cranked over.  If it goes below 10V, you may have a dead cell in the battery.

[moodnacreek]

Ok, somebody left a multi meter here and I found it. Tested at 12.7 V this morning @ 29 degrees, just enough to turn over and start, she goes up to 13.7 V right away. I am thinking the starter wants high voltage or nothing.

If you have a helper, watch how much the voltage drops while it's being cranked over.  If it goes below 10V, you may have a dead cell in the battery.

It has done this with 3 different batteries for 3 years. I have to change the starter when the weather breaks.

[mike_belben]

Your battery and charging system are fine doug.  Open up the starter.. If its still got brushes just make the commutator look new and youll get another lifetime out of it.  If u turn that core in youre givingnaway a good starter.  

Job can be done quicker than a trip to the store, even in suburban NY.  Remember to jumprope with the cables and buff up all the contact points with the 80 grit or so, or the cable voltage drop will just eat up your brand new starter. A file or knife even where its hard to get.. Just scratch it up with something rough, u want copper or steel shine.  

[moodnacreek]

Your battery and charging system are fine doug.  Open up the starter.. If its still got brushes just make the commutator look new and youll get another lifetime out of it.  If u turn that core in youre givingnaway a good starter.  

Job can be done quicker than a trip to the store, even in suburban NY.  Remember to jumprope with the cables and buff up all the contact points with the 80 grit or so, or the cable voltage drop will just eat up your brand new starter. A file or knife even where its hard to get.. Just scratch it up with something rough, u want copper or steel shine.  

We used to use carbon tet. to do that

[Stephen1]

My zero turn mower always has a fuel prime issue. SO to many times I have to let it crank for a while to get the fuel back in the carb. I kept thinking I had a bad battery cause it was always dead when I went to start it every week. or at least low enough it wouldn't turn over. After putting some thought into it I realized the longer the starter cranked the slower it got. Ends up the starter was bad. it was only obvious when it basically seized up during long cranks. But once it cooled off it worked fine.

I guess that is why I was told to only to crank a starter for 20 seconds and let it rest.  

[DMcCoy]

Once you get it running a volt meter should read 14.2 - 14.5v if not you have an alternator issue.
You can use a voltmeter to check voltage drain across the battery case.  Leave 1 probe on a terminal and take the other and touch it to the top of the battery in different places heading to the other terminal.  A damp battery will show voltage.
Please post what you figure out.

[moodnacreek]

Once you get it running a volt meter should read 14.2 - 14.5v if not you have an alternator issue.
You can use a voltmeter to check voltage drain across the battery case.  Leave 1 probe on a terminal and take the other and touch it to the top of the battery in different places heading to the other terminal.  A damp battery will show voltage.
Please post what you figure out.

Apparently it is the starter. With the weather getting warmer, she starts right up. It has been doing this for 3 years and has not gotten any worse. That is what confuses me. I am behind the 8 ball as I have not sawed this winter, my usual,  sawing season because of the new mill installation. When I change the starter I will post, thanks for your interest, Doug

[moodnacreek]

I never got back to those who tried to help with my hard in cold weather or after sitting start problem. I never put the new starter in until yesterday because I learned how to start it in the morning. I found that if I held the glowplug button down for 2 minutes, let off and c ranked she would start with only one revolution unless it had not been run for a few days or was very cold. So this morning it was 24 degrees and it started with no glow plugs. It was the starter all along and the one I took out was not original. 06 4cylinder Perkins, 5000 hours.