Suggestions on where to locate my mobile business

[rjletravelers]

Been lurking on the forum for several months and have to toss out a huge thank you to those of you putting your experiences on here. It has given me a ton of great information on starting a part time milling business that I can roll into my retirement. Hope this question is in the correct thread...

To the reason for my post.
I live in Boise, Idaho and my home is in a residential zone. I have found out that to get a business license in Boise I have to run it off land zoned light industrial and or commercial. Having done a tone of looking into available property I seem to have come to a dead end as I can find no contractors yard space in a reasonable distance that isn't less than 2500$ a month. Given I want to do this as a part time gig until I retire from my teaching job in a few years there is no amount of milling I can do part time that would pay for the required zoning space each month.

My intention is to provide a mobile milling service that is done primarily at the customers location milling their lumber into what ever their needs are. So I don't have need for a large space to lease. Problem is, there is no space small enough or cheap enough to lease. I have contacted a couple of commercial real estate company's and they have been super polite but have let me know what I am looking for just doesn't exist in their reality.

So, I am looking for suggestions from any of you that have started your own business on how to find a place to run my business out of. I want to do it legally so running out of my home doesn't work. One person I spoke to suggested finding a contractor with yard space I could sublease. Anyone done something like that? Willing to entertain any ideas or suggestions or questions.

Thank you!
Rich in Boise

[Andries]

Welcome to the Forum, Rich.
If you're wanting to set up as a mobile sawyer, you might be ok based from home. 
Whats the difference between having a boat on a trailer, or a mill on a trailer?
I've seen videos and photos of many mobile sawyers on the Forum, with their mills located in a residential area.
on the other hand, for locating away from home, Tree Service companies generally have a bit of land to take care of chips and trunks.
Try phoning some of them to see if any of them are interested in a co-locate.

[mudfarmer]

A lot of corporations and companies are "run out of" mailboxes, even UPS store type po-box type things. These are normally shell/holding corps but I don't see the difference in your case. Something to consider if all you have to do is store your mill at home and not actually use it there. The business address is "123 Big Commercial Building St Suite 10, Boise" and it just happens to store an asset in your back yard. Nobody cares or knows if 123 Big Commercial Building St is just a UPS store.

Note: I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. At All. :P

[Magicman]

You said "mobile" which indicates to me that you will be sawing at the customer's location.  I realize that Idaho ain't Mississippi, but I have been operating a portable sawmilling business for 20 years.  The sawing is done at the customer's location and my truck is my office.  All mail and sawmill parts/blades are delivered to my home address.  Between jobs the sawmill is parked in my drive or side yard.  If I will be idle for much more than a week, I park it in my Son's yard simply because he has more room than I have.

[Ianab]

Is there any dispensation for "mobile" businesses? Lots of other small operations are home based. Lawn mowing for example? Do they have to have a "commercial" base to operate from?The city officials may not volunteer this sort of loophole, but if it's there it should be able to be used. 

[maple flats]

Another idea, try working a deal with a local farm. Farms do not have the regulations. Maybe you can even work a deal where you do some sawing f their logs as rent. There must be a few farms within 3-5 miles.

[terrifictimbersllc]

You would not be running the business out of your home location, to just park your mill at home.  The business activity occurs at the customers property. You would not have customers coming and going at your home.The rule that might govern could be just what vehicle(s) are permitted by your zoning regulations. In interacting with your officials I would make it clear that what yiu would like to do should not be any different than for example a person who has a business van or landscaping trailer that he keeps at home and takes to customers properties. Study your zoning rules and see what they say.

[SawyerTed]

I had an agreement with a friend/neighbor/farm owner that I could saw on his farm.  My "rent" was a few hundred board feet of 2x6 and 2x8 every couple of months cut from his logs.  

My mill spent most of its parked time over 4 years under a shelter at his farm.  

All my business was conducted from my residence.  

[Resonator]

If you haven't done so already, you will need to find a good lawyer. They should be able to walk you through what's required in your area. I set my business up as a LLC 5 years ago, and my lawyer handled the articles of incorporation. Also you'll need a good accountant, this is a MUST if you're not proficient with legal tax requirements and business deductions.

[rjletravelers]

Morning everyone,
   Thank you all a tone for the information. A lot of great ideas. Sorry for the late response, I was busy with the family yesterday. So, here is the information from the city of Boise zoning. 

Contractor's Shop is defined as:
"Contractor Shop: A building or part of a building or land area for the construction or storage of materials, equipment, tools, products, and vehicles. Parts and equipment are generally not displayed or sold on-site for retail consumption, but if so, they are a subordinate part of commercial or wholesale sales. Typical examples include air conditioning service, plumbing companies, electrical companies, rental stores, or any area upon which materials are stored for use as part of the business or from which service crews are normally dispatched in service vehicles."
 
Based on the first sentence above, because you are storing the materials and equipment on site, this use would be considered a Contractor's shop, and is only allowed in a few zones.
 
I hope that helps,

To get a business license in the City I have to have an address located on zoning that is light industrial or similar.
I will look into the mention above for a dispensation but given my discussion I am doubting it. Though, it may very well be one of those situations where if they don't ask don't tell. So will give it a look.

Several great suggestions. The most likely will be looking into a company that has the space to sublet to me potentially. We do have many a local farm so I will look into that option as well. There are several farm supply stores I can post information in and look into that option as well. I have a couple of neighbors that have a landscaping business and the other a tree service. They will both be on my, talk to sooner rather than later list.

Beyond that I want to give a huge thank you to several of you who posted above. I have been reading many of your posts prior to making my own. The community on here is helping me realize I am making the best decision for myself.

What I want to create is nearly identical to Magicman and I have read dozens of his posts. Thank you! And thank you the rest of you as well.

If anyone has any further ideas that come to them please reach out.
Thank you,

Rich

[YellowHammer]

I don't know, I think you probably qualify for a home business.  According to the Boise Small Business planning documents,

https://www.cityofboise.org/media/3862/010-small-business-owner-guide.pdf



 

I don't see you violating these requirements.  You will not be changing the character of a dwelling, and would not be adding additional pedestrian traffic.  You won't even be conducting business out of your house unless you dedicate a room as an office.  

In your example, I got the feeling it was to dissude junkyards, sign shops, warehouses, etc and other home businesses that are heavy on equipment or hardware that is stored and resold besides the examples they gave.  I personally don't see how they would apply to you.

I googled and found at least one mobile har dresser that appears to be conducting business for their home as far as I could tell.  Typically, home hairdressers or makeup people are used as the general example of an acceptable and no load home business that doesn't require rezoning, at least in Alabama.

I would also equate your mobile sawmill business to be equivalent to that of a professional bass fisherman.  They fish tournaments as a business, but come home and park their bass boats at their house between tournaments.  In many ways, that is exactly what you are doing.  I doubt Boise would tell the pro fisherman that he couldn't park his boat and trailer at his house, and I doubt he would need a business license, either.

My take on it....

[red]

I know a local tree service that the town was telling him he could not park his chipper at his house.  He hired a lawyer and the town agreed he could keep the chipper at his house only if it was hitched to his truck.  

[dougtrr2]

I would try to set up a face to face meeting with someone who is knowledgable and sympathetic to your goals.  You cited a section of regulations regarding Contractor Shop.  While you could make an argument that a mobile sawing business fits there, that may not be the right rabbit hole to go down.  Sometimes when dealing with regulations you have to step back and look at the whole body of material.  You may not even be in the right chapter.  A face to face meeting with someone willing to figure out "how to make this happen" as opposed to "here is why you can't" is crucial.

Does the Boise Chamber of Commerce have a small business advocate?  Most cities have someone trying to encourage business growth.  That would be someone to talk to.   If all else fails, maybe talk to a lawyer familiar with small business, he may have a better read on all the laws.  But I thing you should be able to find a "free" civil servant that can help you navigate.

Could you rent a space in a self storage unit and meet the requirements?

Doug in SW IA

[WV Sawmiller]

   I was thinking along the same lines as Doug. I would go to the county office who issues licenses and permits and such and describe what you want to do and simply ask them what you need to do to be legal. Before I got started in my mobile sawing business I talked to the license people and we determined what kind of license I needed. Then I talked to the tax people and learned what sales taxes and such I'd have to collect and how turn in to them. Everyone I talked to were very helpful and cooperative. In most cases their goal is to help small businesses. 

   If you are talking to the zoning people they may have a different perspective but the ones who do the licensing and taxing and such are probably more likely to be on your side.

[Southside]

If you hit a brick wall, and it sounds like you might, you can always look to set the business in a different town via a registered agent, or if necessary incorporate in another state and operate from home. You won't be running the mill there so nobody will be the wiser. 

If all else fails there is a lot of timber in Montana. 

[WV Sawmiller]

BTW - are you a veteran? If so you might talk with the VA and they might be able to be able to offer advice and grease some skids for you. 

[SawyerTed]

I have found asking upfront "how do I do _____" of the building inspector and others responsible for regulations gets me a long long way to getting what I want.

Have you had the conversation with those who do the regulation/permits/licensing yet?  We may be reading in too much of an adversarial situation before it has reached that point.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Another good feature about asking up front is if someone starts to challenge you later you can always tell them "I talked to _____ before I did this and they told me I was in compliance." Officials don't like to get in disputes with their counterparts especially when they find the OP has already cleared it with the cognizant offices.

[barbender]

I am much more of the "it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission" persuasion on this kind of stuff. All you are doing at your residence that would be business related is getting mail and parking the mill at night. Why would you even need a license for that? 

[Sedgehammer]

Drive around , if you see any commercial vehicles parked @ their house for the night , you have zero to worry about

I'm like bartender , forgiveness is almost always better . You just might be opening up a huge can of red worms you don't want to eat by contacting the city prior to

[SawyerTed]

The OP said "legally".  The ask for forgiveness approach doesn't fit with his original question. 

[rjletravelers]

You all rock!

Great information that I can take several different directions.
I do know a few people that work for the city of Boise. I will reach out to them and see if they could put me in touch with the right folks so to speak.

There are generally speaking a lot more people to talk too beside the one person I spoke to in the zoning office. Boise has a small business association that has a lot of resources available to people starting their own businesses. I have sent several former students to them. Don't know why I didn't think of them myself. I am not a vet so that option isn't a line I can take.
 
In regards to what I see parked on the street around Boise. Literally next street over from me is a guy who parks a tow-able crane and chipper at his house. He also parks his large truck for the chipper on the street. Think I will go chat with him. He may have plenty of information he could share. As well as a potential lead on jobs and such.

I have a lot more options to look into.
Thank you all!

[rjletravelers]

@ Yellow Hammer
 
Funny you mention the professional fisherman. One of my co-workers is on the US National fly fishing team.

Admittedly, I don't have any idea how a mobile band sawmill is any different than most of the objects I see parked in front of homes in Boise. Huge outdoors man state with fishing, hunting and recreational opportunities galore. Why can't I park my mill on the side of my house when there are dozens of other things city wide parked on the street. Camp trailers, boats and rv's everywhere.
Thanks.

[barbender]

 ST, like I said, I wasn't suggesting that the OP break any laws. This strikes me as a very, very grey area where you could pay all kinds of fees and for licenses that you don't legally even need, but they will still let you pay for them. If I were that concerned about it, I would consult a business attorney in that area.

[Ianab]

I wonder how it's different from say a tree service, who has a commercial yard as their registered place of business, and log / firewood storage. But the crew boss takes the truck and chipper home at night, and drives directly to the job site and home again. 

They have the "commercial yard" requirement covered in the permit, but some equipment gets parked at home most of the time.  Is there a specific regulation about parking light machinery at home? 

[rjletravelers]

Hahaha!

So, I called the number to discuss with a planner what other requirements there are for a home occupation permit. The number got me right back to the permitting office that told me I need to have a contractors yard....

Back to finding someone that I can sublet from I believe. Or, incorporate on land outside of Boise City limits. Will keep looking into it.

Thank you again.

[scsmith42]

This strikes me as a very, very grey area where you could pay all kinds of fees and for licenses that you don't legally even need, but they will still let you pay for them. If I were that concerned about it, I would consult a business attorney in that area.

Amen.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Besides a sawmill (with a cover on it), what else are you hoping to keep there?

[btulloh]

X2 on the attorney. You need someone that knows the ins and outs of navigating the bureaucratic labyrinth. It will be money well spent. Good idea you mentioned about talking to the neighbor with the tree service too.  Don't throw in the towel just yet. It's hard enough to get some reasonable profit when you're starting a small business without adding unnecessary expenses for leased space. So far you've only spoken to a couple city bureaucrats who don't want to be bothered and enjoy exercising their only power - the power to say "NO".

You'll be needing a couple hours of attorney time any way you go.  Finding the right way to avoid the long term expense of leasing space is well worth the price of admission. 

[fluidpowerpro]

In your case, I'm with Barbender. Just do it and if there are issues later, deal with it then. I doubt there will be. I have often found that when dealing with city hall, if you want to make a big deal of something, they will make a big deal of it also. Don't even go there. 
One thing you might consider doing if possible is building a fence around where you will park the mill. In addition to keeping it out of sight, a fence would also offer some security for the mill.

[Southside]

If you can find an AG exemption I would chase that. Otherwise don't be surprised when you get a business excise tax bill in the mail for the mill, bands, your truck, phone, laptop, Peavey and everything else that gets "inspected" by the permitting entity. 

[Crossroads]

I live about 6 hours north of you and run a mobile sawmill business. Living in Idaho I would say you're pretty free to go forth and prosper. However you live in Boise and last time I was in Boise, I got a $94 parking ticket for parking in an empty parking lot at 7:45AM for 5 min. While I grabbed my luggage from my hotel room. So, the only advice I have to offer is to park your mill in the winter because the salts they put on the road are not very good for it. 

[Old Greenhorn]

If I may just add a little here. When entering into a new venture it behooves one to do their own research. For the initial go 'round just ignore what 'you have heard' because legally it means nothing and carries no weight.
Most towns and cities have their zoning regs online or you can access them at the clerks office. First go look at the maps and find out exactly what your property is zoned. Not all residential zoning is the same. (I.E. in my town we have about 5 different residential zones based on location, available land usages, and population density.)  Once you find what your property is zoned as precisely, write that down and start reading the allowable usage regulations yourself to figure out what is legally do-able.  This way you will be familiar with the laws and know when somebody is sending you on a goose chase or selling you permits that you don't need.
Be careful about your terminology. From your description what you want to do is park a piece of business equipment in your driveway and that's all. You are not 'operating your business' at your home. This is important as no money changes hands on your property and no saleable items are created.
Best I can figure, your business is like that of the Good Humor man, f you know what that is. He parks his ice cream truck at home, leaves in the morning to pick up his stock at a distributor, then sells his stuff on the streets all day long, and parks it at his house again at night.

To use my particular zoning for example, we are in a rural part of town. All properties must be at least one acre. You may park a commercial vehicle on your property if A) you use it for daily work, B) it is currently registered and inspected, and C) it is not visible from the road. This last item is never enforced unless someone pushes the limits and somebody else files a complaint.
Additionally under the zoning for my home I may operate a business if it is A) completely contained within the buildings on my property, B) does not create an increase in traffic in the area, c) does not require additional parking, and D) creates no noise. There is also a long list of things that may NOT be operated as a residential business, such as junk yards, distilleries, and other stuff. They even have a reg that states how big a sign I may have for my business. Most folks around here have a shingle sign out if people come to visit, pick up, or drop off. (I have mine on a stand and only put it out when I have appointments coming.)
So knowing your regulations is best done by you before you start asking other folks. But I would talk to the fella with the chipper in his driveway. Mostly folks complain about big trucks with lots of advertising on them, hence those regulations. With no placards on your mill, it should not be an issue.

Best of lusck to you.

[Ianab]

So knowing your regulations is best done by you before you start asking other folks. But I would talk to the fella with the chipper in his driveway. Mostly folks complain about big trucks with lots of advertising on them, hence those regulations. With no placards on your mill, it should not be an issue.

Ditto with talking to a lawyer that knows the local regulations.  But what I see the problem being is the need to register a business licence, at a "commercial" location. If you bought a sawmill as a hobby and parked it in your back yard (not used it there), there would probably be zero issue. If you started sawing there regularly, there would probably be complaints (fair enough, don't do that).

Can you register an "address of convenience"? For example at a friendly local tree service's yard. Then put a sign on the fence saying "RJ's Mobile Milling - Phone 555.... " If anyone bothered to check your business licence address they at least see a sign. Where's the mill? Well Duh, it's mobile, it's not here today....   That's the sort of deal you could put together in trade for a couple of days of milling each year?

Things are a lot easier here, there is "zoning", so I can't RUN a sawmill at home, although an occasional small log isn't a problem. But I don't generally need a "licence" to run a business. Things like food safety or selling booze are different, and if you start "disturbing the peace", there are regulations about that.  My neighbour runs his own AC / refrigeration business from home. Sometimes a large truck pulls up and unloads some pallets in his driveway, but that's about it. 

[barbender]

I really can't think why a P.O. box wouldn't serve the same purpose as finding a commercial address to run out of. 

[Stephen1]

I like OG answer the best, before you spend money on a lawyer. It's always better to learn and understand the rules. I find rules are meant to be bent/broken but only when you know them. 
I also believe I can do most anything until someone of authority tells me different. Beg forgiveness works lot with a big helping of humble pie. 
I sawed wood on a public landing at a lake, twice for the same customer,  where the boats are pulled in and out. It was in November so not very many people around. I floated the logs to the landing, pulled them up on shore, sawed them, hauled the dunnage away and thru the most of the sawdust in the bush. I was told by two different busy bodies, I couldn't do that. I asked very humbly, why not, they didn't  have the  answer, authority, or the willingness  to call the bylaw officer. 
I pointed out that I have been to other lakes and pulled logs onto my trailer at public landings. Marinas pull boats out of lakes at public landings , so really not much different than me sawing wood. Using a public landing to make money. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Every community is different. In some towns and cities they have building inspectors going out and actively looking for violations so they can write summons and collect fines to justify their jobs. Many towns only enforce zoning restrictions if there is a grievous offence or somebody complains. Some regs were written in case some bozo tried to go beyond reason or because someone had in the past. Those things are only enforced when absolutely necessary.
 I had a neighbor who was a thorn in my side for over 20 years. He had a cold cut business he would sell meats to deli's and supermarkets from his truck. He insisted on keeping his truck at home, which was fine by me. What was not fine by me was hearing his diesel fridge unit running all night and the exhaust fumes sliding down the hill and stinking up 3 other neighbors homes. It ran all the time and in the summer with windows open we were all miserable. I talked to a building inspector (who lived across the road) and asked if I could complain about the commercial vehicle in his driveway. He said I could, but asked that I don't do it because all the other folks on my road would get summonses for having their work trucks visible from the road and those folks bothered nobody. BUT, he did tell me about our noise ordinance and suggested I go that route, which I did. He complied and shut it down at 9:30 but many times would "forget". I would call him at 11pm some nights and tell him that 'either he shut it down, or I would burn it down'. He began to get the message. ;D Eventually (3 more years) the guy rented a space to park his truck on commercial property. He made good money, drove nice cars, and he could afford the rent, but he said "I just don't want to". 
 SO how do you get along with the neighbors? :D

[barbender]

Good example of the other side of the situation, OG.

[Iwawoodwork]

The question of a portable mill parked at home made me think about how many homes have a cargo trailer or a camp trailer parked alongside the driveway, so the question is if the mill was in an enclosed trailer would there be an issue?  Think how many contractors tow their cargo/tool trailers home each day, are they required to purchase the permit?   So if it is ok to park an enclosed (tow behind a pu size) cargo trailer then find/buy/build one long enough to park the mill in, that way the mill is protected from the weather and out of sight.

[Magicman]

That would be a relatively huge trailer because my sawmill is ~25' long.  All of the covers, including the engine, are in place when my sawmill is parked.    It is not set up for sawing, nor have I ever sawed here at home.  I am portable/mobile.

I have sawn logs several times in town and I have even set up on the street without question.

[Spike60]

I'm going against most of the advice here concerning lawyers, and endless dialog with apparently ignorant public officials. The fact that you reached out to the planning board and wound up back to the very same permit office that said no to begin with leaves you dealing with perhaps just one obstinate public official standing in your way. And like barbender says, you may be seeking a permit that you don't even need, from a city employee that doen't even understand what your trying to do. Before I'd have any further conversations with the city, I'd have that talk with the guy around the corner who parks THREE pieces of equipment for his tree business at home. If he isn't being hassled, then no one will be telling you you cannot park your mill in your yard. Has he ever had a visit from what around here would be called the code enforcement officer? How many plumbers, electricians, carpenters, cleaning services, landscapers, etc, park their trucks/vans, (likely lettered for their business), at their homes? Does the city really intend that "Joe's Plumbing Service" has to rent a $2500 contractor's yard to park his van? I realize that regulations need to exist to keep things from getting out of control, but if all you're doing is parking the mill in your yard, then it's no different than those examples, or any other trailer, camper, boat or whatever in any yard in the neighborhood. First thing I'd do is STOP talking to the city.

[Magicman]

I agree.  Fact is that I never talked to anyone, I just did/do it.

[Southside]

Yup agree too. 

It's amazing how many times city hall exists just to support city hall and has no idea what is going on.  This fall we were asked to attend another farmers market in a local small city and we said yes.  Was told by the market manager that we needed to obtain a "producers permit" or a business license from the city to attend the market, they could not tell me which one I needed.  Looked on line - answer was clear as mud.  A producers permit is for "all farmers", then goes onto the last line where you certify that the "produce grown" by said farmer was grown on land, yadda, yadda, yadda.  Wait - this seems to be for produce only and we produce animal products.  So I read the business license categories and actual farms are exempt from needing a business license, which is state law.  So.... call over to the city hall, specifically the department that handles this.  Nobody there knows anything about this "producers permit" and I end up in voice mail purgatory.  

Eventually decide to complete the paperwork for the producers permit and send it in.  Get a reply that "oh you are a farm, we don't send these to farmers".  Good enough, that reply was printed off and goes to the market with me in the cash box and I doubt it will ever come out to show any enforcement since the issuing agency basically said they don't issue these at all.  

The right hand doesn't even know that the left hand exists.  

[beenthere]

It is unfortunate (but is what it is) that a gov't clerk saying "no" is of no risk to them, but if they say "yes" then there is risk. 
Spike60 summed it up very well. 

[Sedgehammer]

Hahaha!

So, I called the number to discuss with a planner what other requirements there are for a home occupation permit. The number got me right back to the permitting office that told me I need to have a contractors yard....

Back to finding someone that I can sublet from I believe. Or, incorporate on land outside of Boise City limits. Will keep looking into it.

Thank you again.

In my opine , you are waaaaaaaaaaaaay over thinking this . Since there are commercial vehicles parked @ residences over night/weekend , what's the issue

[reride82]

Call a few painters, drywall guys, siding installers, roofers, masons and see how they are setup from a business perspective. These guys also operate out of their trucks/trailers and rarely have a shop for a base of operations. I would bet that the zoning guy is imagining a stationary circle mill when he envisions a sawmill, instead of a trailered bandmill. Maybe bring pictures and specifications of your mill if you meet with them again, I bet that will help your case.

Levi

[fluidpowerpro]

If you make a big deal out of something, it will become one. Parking a mill in your driveway is no big deal.

[thecfarm]

Not that it matters.
Was a Maine member on here that wanted a sawmill to saw on his property. Town said no way, sawmills are not allowed. A little more digging found out there was a circle mill in town limits many years ago. Powered by a loud motor and slabs all over the place. 
All sawmills are bad.  :(
I know of one guy that lives with houses that have a 250 square foot lots. No self-employed vehicles with lettering are allowed to be parked in a driveway overnight. 
So if someone else is doing, then you should be good to go.
Just saying again, it only takes one person to complain. 
But if they do it, it's OK.  ???  
I had a boss like that.