I know they aint all like this but dang,

JD Guy · December 02, 2023, 11:03:55 AM

Quote from: B.C.C. Lapp on December 02, 2023, 09:58:56 AM
Quote from: Southside on December 01, 2023, 08:38:58 PM
Early 30's isn't a "young guy" in my book.
It is in mine. Maybe it's because I have kids that age.

I consider 30's young as well but the age has less to do with the issues than the man's work ethic and give a DanG attitude do. You can find plenty of those in their 40's and 50's too! On the other hand my experience is that the younger are less inclined to have the initiative to do the job well but rather just get it done regardless of the quality of their work. B.C.C. Lapp, you've handled this well. If he can't do the job as you want then time for him to move on. Best of luck!

barbender · December 02, 2023, 12:50:01 PM

I wouldn't want a contract cutter on a job I was working on, period. Even though the mill sent them out, it doesn't really matter. If he gets hurt, all that matters is what your Department of Labor determines and they may find that he is working for you. Doesn't matter what you think. I just think you are opening yourself up to something that even if you beat it, the costs would bankrupt you. My .02.

The relevant MN agencies have really clamped down on "misclassifying" employees as contractors in logging companies.

When as an equipment operator, you can make $30-$40 an hour with excellent benefits in the construction industry, it is really hard for logging companies to compete for operators. So the temptation to pay them as contractors, and raise the wage with what would go towards comp, employment taxes etc is very strong.

B.C.C. Lapp · December 11, 2023, 05:06:01 PM

Well, due to wet weather we have only worked three days since my last post in this thread. First day back I told him we needed to get some things straight before we start. I kept in low key, didn't get excited and tried hard to let him say his piece as well and I listened to what he had to say. What I found was that he has a kinda adversarial attitude about this mill and the forester. His reasons are his own and I neither agreed with him nor disagreed. I just listened, didn't judge or comment much. I did make it clear what I expected and what standards we are going to work with on this job and any other he shows up on. When we were done I could say with no doubt that he understood me.
That day and the following days went fairly well. He is doing what I asked for the most part and when I have pointed things out he has corrected mistakes. In short he's doing his job well enough that I can relax and concentrate on moving logs and not drama.

I gave this a lot of thought and went back to work with the goal not to lay down the law, or establish whos boss. I care not about those things or who gets the last word. No my plan was to try to get him to understand what had to be done and get us to where we could do what we both came to do, get this timber cut and the logs on the landing.
And, we are doing that very thing now so I'm pleased. Are we going to want to stay partners? Are we going to become friends? Nope, I really doubt it. But that is okay. As long as we can work and get the job done that what matters here. I'm glad I posted about this. I learned something useful.

SawyerTed · December 11, 2023, 05:18:45 PM

Sounds like it was well handled. Probably both of you learned somethings. Might help him in the long run.

Stephen1 · December 11, 2023, 05:48:50 PM

That's the way to handle it. Good for you.
Here in Canada I have to carry my own Workmans Comp on my self. I went and sawed a corporate job in Paris Ontario last week, I need proof of 2M liability insurance and a WSIB #. I drove 3 hours away for that job. The company could not find anyone that carried the insurance. I find insurance is expensive until you have to collect, and then its real cheap.

thecfarm · December 11, 2023, 06:12:16 PM

Sounds like he's a keeper!!
He wants to learn and do a better job.

JD Guy · December 11, 2023, 09:26:51 PM

@B.C.C. Lapp Very well done! In my opinion you approached him like a man and had a conversation not adversarial. You got the job done the way it needs to be done and you let the young man keep his integrity. It's a win/win!! You're a good man!

Ianab · December 12, 2023, 03:04:26 AM

Yes, you handled it in a professional way, start of the day when everyone had a clear mind, and could talk through things. Now you both have a better idea of each others outlook. You might not agree with his opinions, and visa versa, but hopefully you can at least work together. You don't have to be best mates with someone to work with them, as long as both are on the same "understanding" of doing the job in a decent way.

Tom King · December 13, 2023, 11:22:47 AM

B.C.C. Lapp · February 11, 2024, 08:28:45 AM

Well, here's a update.   The job is done.   Deep mud, long skids, hillside on half and swamp the other half, but we did finish it.

And we go our separate ways. And I'm good with that. Like I said we never will be friends. But for my part I've no hard feelings toward him.

My skidder is moved and I started a new job for a different mill and it feels like a weight off my shoulders.   Went to work the last few days pretty happy to be back on my own.

Like I said I learned from this and Ill never take a guy on again that I dont know unless someone I know and really trust says he's okay. Then, well, maybe.   And it will take a while.

GRANITEstateMP · February 11, 2024, 08:32:32 AM

B.C.C. Lapp, I really wanted to give you a double thumbs up on that last post

mike_belben · February 11, 2024, 04:35:15 PM

The current unemployment rate is 3.7%

That means of all the people willing to work, the available pickins is down to the very bottom of the barrel right now. So we should keep our expectations pretty low unless poaching high dollar people off our competitors at this point.

Food for thought.