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Author Topic: grows 292 bft,Ac  (Read 6959 times)

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Offline Rod

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grows 292 bft,Ac
« on: February 07, 2002, 05:28:51 PM »
What does it mean when when a forester says your land well grow 292 bft per Ac a year?

<a href="http://URL" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://URL</a> 8)

Offline Frank_Pender

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2002, 05:37:35 PM »
That is the amount of growth he feels that your trees are putting on each year with the increased diameneter of your trees.  I hope this makes sense to you, Rod.  As an example, lets say you have a tree that will produce 100 bdft in the first 16' log.   With the growth of the next year you may well gain 10 or even 20 bdft based on the diam. the tree put on at the 16' length. (This is just a hypothetical sketch, mind you, folks.)  Mot likely for this kind of growth you would have to have a very rapid growing site and tree, I am sure. ::)
Frank Pender

Offline Jeff

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2002, 05:37:44 PM »
What it means is that he is estimating that is how much the timber volume of your woodlot increases.

Here are some numbers out of the air for an example.

You have 200 trees average per acre. The total combined volume of those trees was determined to be 12,000 Board ft per acre.

He is estimating that growth will increase next year's volume to about 12,292 BF per acre.

Now, Lets hear the foresters tell us what the tools and processes are on predicting growth rates on a stand of timber. That will be intersesting
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Offline Jeff

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2002, 05:39:03 PM »
Hey you beat me by a mili second Frank!
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Offline timberbeast

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2002, 06:06:01 PM »
Also,  Rod,  in case you don't know (we kinda take this for granted sometimes),  a board foot is a piece of wood 1 inch thick,  one foot long and one foot wide.  So,  an 8 foot 1x12 is 8 board feet.  An 8 foot 2x12 is 16 board feet,  etc.  It's a volume measure.  If you already knew that,  sorry if it sounds in any way "condescending".  But you'd be surprised at the amount of carpenters I sell to who don't know,  since they buy by the piece and don't really need to know bd. ft.  You can find calculators for this in the toolbox.
Where the heck is my axe???

Offline Jeff

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2002, 06:12:58 PM »
Beast, you would be surprised the number of mill hands that don't know that. I have found guys that work in sawmills for most of thier life that don't know the volume in 1 BF.

I guarantee you at a mill that pays their hands a production bonus, every one of those guys will know what a Board foot is! ;D and how many b.f is in a board, and a bundle of those boards! :D
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Offline Bud Man

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2002, 01:30:36 AM »
Rod ------Lot and lots of unknowns here !!!!--The forester had to cruise your land (using sample plots) and determine the current average size (ht. & diameter)  and volume (bd.ft.) in place. Then work backwards and increment bore trees on  plots to determine average age to determine a site index to tell him how you got where you are now (present volumes).  Next , having determined a site index (based on volume and age),  he goes to an applicable  yield table, that hopefully has already been developed for a similar woodlot -- based on species and conditions. Then he predicts future volume  growth of 292 bf./yr. of whatever your growing.  Now if he didn't do something similar to this he probably gave you a S.W.A.G. which hopefully was based on a previous experience of known results.      Hope I helped.
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2002, 04:27:57 AM »
more info,here is what he said(forster) Cove hardwood poletimber,good quality.

292 Ac,total bd. ft. volume 514603

total cordwood volume 1886

avg stand dim inches 10

bassal avg sq. ft.88

stocking trees 380

avg bd ft basded on int 1/4 rule

this report was done in 1997,can you make anything out of that?

Thats not the hole report.

What I'm trying to do is figure out how much in $$ the trees are growing a year.

The Land is in West Virginia,I don't no if that matters or not?


Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2002, 05:34:20 AM »
And the avg age is 40 years.

He does have it devided in to stands but I'm just giving
you the avg.
like in stand 1,it says Ac 59 bd ft vol 15078,cordwood vol 451 avg dim 10 avg sq ft 91 stocking trees 400.

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2002, 05:53:31 AM »
The Forester gave you total stand information, some good information to have to determine your future growth and timber values.

The 292 bd. ft./year is the timber growth rate determined by all the various ecosystem components, ecological land type, geology, soil, site index or capability, climate, water table, etc.

Including the various factors, the growth rate is determined by tree measurements of diameter and growth rings taken with an incrument bore. This can be predicted on average for the individual trees in the stand by measuring the growth over time, existing growth and yield tables, etc. This information may often be obtained from your County's Soil Survey.

This is a good document for you to obtain if one has been done for your County area. A lot of good information to determine the soil capability of your property for various things.

Trees grow fast in West Virginia. When I worked on the Monongahela National Forest, we could almost hear that yellow poplar growing.
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Offline Frank_Pender

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2002, 06:08:12 AM »
  I would, for the very simplest of fiures determine the average value of each of the special areas of material, such as pole values, cord values etc. based on the number he gave.  then I would determine the what % each of them might be of the 292bdft per year and total them up.  That would, it sounds like to me, would tell you the growth value per year.  For example; I have five acres of 20 year old Douglas Fir.  They are a 15 to 20 foot spacing, growing in a site 2 soils.  The average DBH is 51/2".  If the vol. or rate is growth is 673bdft per year and the value of Fir is going for an average of $550 M then I would mult. 673 x .550 and get an average rate of growth value of $370.  If I wanted to sell it for pulp prices right now and the value was $42 a ton, then I simply determine the tonage and multiply.  I will leave the value of the growth rate to some of you folks that just want to know. :P  If then want to know if it is worth cutting, look at the value of those dollars by placing them in the bank at whatever rate they might be paying and ask yourself, "What is the best return for the dollar investment and the tax rate I would have to pay for that return?"   I have always found that my forest is a better bank than the bank. 8)   And, When I walk in My Woods, to stop and listen to the wind through the boughs it sounds like the old fashioned cash registers, kling, kling, kling, kling, with every step I take. ;)
Frank Pender

Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2002, 06:08:26 AM »
Ron
To give you some idea of what the woods looks like I have added this picture,now I believe he said the popler grow 1/2'' a year and oak 1/4''.I belive that is just a rough est.


  Picture 007[2].jpg Posted by rod on 9/4/2001, 74KB  

 

Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2002, 06:10:47 AM »
I guess the picture did send,hmmm,so how do you send pictues on this site?

Offline swampwhiteoak

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2002, 08:08:31 AM »
If the bf/ac/yr figure was derived from a soil survey it represents the growth at the culmination of MAI (mean annual increment).  In other words, at the time that your forest is growing the most, it will put on 292 bf/ac/yr. [At least this is what the most current soil surveys I use reflect]

Most likely though, the forester worked backward from yield tables based on site index and age and figured an average growth for a certain time period.  This would be more accurate.

$$/ac/yr
Figuring this out can be simple or very complex, depending on how deep you want to go.  The simpliest way to figure this would be to delineate % of species of growing stock.  

Simple example- average growth 292bf/ac/yr
Basal area is 30% yellow-poplar, 40% oak, 30% other (low value)
Average stumpage value - YP .30/bf, Oak .50/bf, other .15/bf
So,
Y-P $$/yr = 292bf*30%*$0.30/bf = $26.28yr
Oak $$/yr = 292bf*40%*$0.50/bf = $58.40/yr
Other $$/yr = 292bf*30%*$0.15/bf = $13.14/yr

Total average = 13.14+58.40+26.28 = $97.82/ac/yr

This is a simple calculation and I ignored a lot of factors.  Namely I assumed all species would grow at the same rate (not true) and I pulled the stumpage values out of my head.  

But growing hardwoods is all about quality.  A few veneer quality logs in a sale can drastically increase the value.  A forty year old stand is not mature and will have a very low average log grade.  

When trees grow, they are not only increasing in size, they are also increasing in grade.  This can become complex economically and would require someone to come up with average grade increases over an amount of time as well as estimated stumpage values to reflect the grade changes.

Clear as mud?

 


Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2002, 08:57:53 AM »
 Thanks swampwhiteoak, yep your right on when you say,clear as mud,but that was down the lines of the info I was wanting to know.

                              clear as mud

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2002, 09:39:20 AM »
I think that is the optimum growth, considering a fully stocked stand.   I don't think your stand is growing that right now.

If I read this right, you have 292 acres with 514.6 Mbf.  That gives you an average of 1762 bf/acre.  That's a 17% growth rate, which sounds a little high to me.

One thing to remember, you can't realize growth in your pocketbook until a tree crosses from one diameter class to another.  Even though there is physical growth in the trees.  For example, a 12" 2 log tree has 92 bf in it.  A 14" tree has 131 bf.   At a growth rate of 1/4 inch per year, it takes 8 years to go to the next diameter class.  You will get a 42% increase in volume at that time, or an average increase of 5% per year.

Values increase as size increases.  If the above example was a red oak, the lumber value would increase from $37 to $55.  That's a 48% increase in value.  But, you have to decrease the value for logging and milling.  Small logs are more expensive than large logs to both mill and log.  That reduces those numbers.  

Veneer comes in logs over about 16" dbh, depending on species.  But, you want those trees to continue to grow.  Farmers never kill off their best milkers.  You will grow much more value on large trees then you will on small ones.

To play around with some numbers, try clicking on the toolbox to the left.  You will find some calculators that may be of some use.  The tree volume calculator will give you volumes for a tree.  The tree value calculator can be used for different species of trees.  Remember that tree values do not include veneer value, and can vary from area to area.  Just a good rule-of-thumb.

Also check out the knowledge base.  Some interesting reads in there as well.

As for posting pictures, try using these links for more information about posting pictures to this site.

http://www.forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=changes&action=display&num=1003400840

http://www.forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=changes&action=display&num=984715459

You will have to optimize your picture, and the software is free.  On your reply, click the upload and attach image.  The copy the address that is given on that screen.  Paste it to your message, and your image will be posted.  Really simple after you get the hang of it.
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Offline swampwhiteoak

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2002, 09:51:46 AM »
You're right Ron W.  I didn't look at the numbers too closely.  The growth figure most likely refers to the culmination of MAI.  If I get some time this weekend I'll try and dig up some tables and give you a more accurate picture.  


Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2002, 12:28:09 PM »
Here is what it says about stand 1,Ac 59 avg age 40 years soils GuD site index 80,stand description nattative,this is a good quality upland oak site,located on a moderate to steep,generally,flat ridge top. The stand consists of poletimber and scattered sawtimber. Primary species include white oak,chestnut oak,yellow poplar,basswood,soft maple and hard maple. There are alse some losust,sassafras,hemlock and hickory.

Generally Common trees N.Red Oak,Yellow Poplar.

I don't know if that will help or not?

Ps,the last time the timber was cut was in 93,if that well make any differences.

Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2002, 12:52:20 PM »
And the sawmill give $450m for red oak ungraded; plup mill gives $26 a ton at there site.   :P


8)

Offline Bud Man

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2002, 02:39:21 PM »
Rod=== Sounds like a state Forester doing gratis work???. Also sounds like the two of you never met one another??? That said, The Forester that has already been to your woodlot would be the best qualified person to give answers to your questions because he knows the variables that we're guessing about here at the forum. Looks like he put forth quite an effort==Now the two of you need to communicate and finish the job !!  Get your questions together based on your concerns and goals and call him . Better yet, call him and invite him to lunch or dinner (Better Choice) (I never met a Forester iI did'nt like) " Eye To Eye each other and express your concerns. ( Don't take him to McDonalds).  This is sure cheaper than a degree in forestry and might prove to be a rewarding relationship.    Best of luck with your woodlot!!!
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2002, 02:55:58 PM »
 I have talked to him, the thing is he lives in another state,about 400 miles away.I just though that maybe I could get some ideas from you guys ,anyway he's retired now,so he always gone fishing. ::)And the forster here he's to busy to stop by,so what do you do?

Offline Bud Man

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2002, 03:09:09 PM »
Rod== Lot's of references to $'s  $'s in your post's .  If you have to put  $'s in your pocket, Get with a Forester and develop a long term plan. Tell him your  $'s  short term needs and give him a chance to tell you your options and the future value of your woodlot.  A site index of 80 is not great, but it would be a shame to sell 40 years of growth at tonage price's to a mill !!!  Your woodlot sounds like it's  about to compound it's value and go to sawlogs and veneer based on basal area usage , from the facts given.  Like the quote from A. Lincoln  " If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance" ===Your land, and trees, and your call Just Know Your Options
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2002, 03:31:05 PM »
First of all, what is it you want to do?  Your forester's plan should be good for about 10 years.  There are plenty of foresters available, but since you don't have saleable timber, they kind of puts you on the back burner.  

One plan may be to think about becoming a tree farmer.  You sign up for the program and a forester will take a walk through and make recommendations.  It isn't a formal plan, but it is a start.  They make periodic visits to make sure you are doing the recommended cultural work.  And, you get a neat green sign to hang out front.

From the limited data that you have provided, your stand isn't overstocked.  You have an average basal area of 88, which is well below the overstocked level of 115.  It isn't understocked, which occurs at 68.  So, you have plenty of room to grow.  

From a cultural standpoint, you may have trees that are of low quality or poor species.  Hemlock isn't looked upon too favorably as a sawtimber tree in many areas, for example.  You could cut or kill these trees.  Sometimes you can get fed money to do cultural work.  I'll let a state forester address that aspect.   (Hear that SWO)?

You may want to learn how to cruise your own timber.  Look at the knowledge base under forestry.  I have a section on point sampling.  After you have a good inventory, then you can figure on growth and value.
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Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2002, 03:49:10 PM »
Thanks guys.That is what I'm trying to do is figure out the best plan.The forster who wrote the 10 plan in 97 is retired now.I believe I do have to many beech and hemlock that are starting to take your the woods now.Over the years the money trees were sold and now I have to many low grades.Was think of clear cutting,the pulpwood guy would like to cut it but I have been holding off think it woud be wiser to let the trees grow.But since I don't no anying about forestry Im in the learning mode right now looking for some advise.

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2002, 04:05:14 PM »
I agree, it sounds like the Forester did a detailed management or landowner stewardship plan describing individual management units. You need to meet with the Forester who did the plan to discuss it and the individual stand or management area data for your understanding.

Determine and understand what the scheduled management practices should be to meet your resource objectives. Your local Forester should know this best and be able to advise you accordingly.
~Ron

Offline swampwhiteoak

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2002, 04:12:10 PM »
Timber stand improvement dollars
-Get ready for alphabet soup
As we are still under the 96 Farm Bill there are two programs that can address your situation - FIP (Forest improvement program) and SIP (Stewardship incentives program).  When Congress gets done with the next farm bill these programs will be combined and called something else- and everyone can relearn everything again ::).

States have already been allocated FIP funds for fiscal year 2002.  It had been barely funded for the last few years and Ohio's dollars ran out quickly.  Ohio prioritized tree planting over TSI so we didn't even get any new TSI funded this year.  SIP hasn't been funded the last few years although I hear that might change in the near future.  The person to contact for these programs is the service forester in your area.  Each state gets a different amount of funding so I can't comment on WV's situation.  

TSI (Timber Stand Improvement) is a catch all term for a lot of things - precommercial thinning, gravevine control, crop tree release, eliminating exotics, removing unwanted species, ect.

___________

From your other posts I gather that this is a mixed aged stand.  That makes growth calculations on an overall scale more difficult.  Regardless - well cared for trees on a good site are a good investment.  

Perhaps there's a woodland owner's group or something like that in your area.  Attend some meetings and learn some things.

Tell us some more about yourself, Rod.  How long have you owned the property?  Do you plan to keep it?

Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2002, 04:50:41 PM »
Well one day when I was driving throug West Viriginia in 1996 I stopped and stayed a night at a motel.The next morning I went over to the station to get a cup of coffee and the town paper just to see what was going on.Will there was an ad in there'' for sale,292 AC'' with the price.I said ...man thats cheap,so I call the guy up he showed me the place went to the town bank and now I'm a timber land owner..

But anyway I though it might be a good invesment for what I'm not sure yet.But I have been offered way over what I paid for it but I don't want to sale it becaue the woods kind of grows on you if you know what I mean.What I would like to know is if you invest x amount of dollars per ac in mangement what would the return be.

The timber Co. around me are not doing it so I was just wanted to no if it was profitable to do it.

Ps I have called the forester here but I believe he's to busy to stop by.

And thanks again guy for all the info,sorry about pick your brains so much. :D :)



Offline Ron Scott

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2002, 05:20:22 PM »
Where in West Virginia is the property located? Maybe I can give you a contact.
~Ron

Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2002, 05:49:37 PM »
Its in Clay

Offline DanG

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2002, 09:17:55 PM »
Rod, don't be sorry about picking brains, around here. There are a lot of us who don't know enough to ask the questions you asked, so we all learned a lot. These guys, SWO, the Ron Brothers, et al, enjoy tackling this kind of question, else they would ignore you. The rest of us just thank you for asking something that gives us a learning experience. :P

Now, that being said, if I had that 292 acres, I would just park my mill in the middle of it, and start dragging the biggest logs to it. Haul it out as lumber when you go to get groceries and more beer.  You and a WoodMizer would never be able to keep up with it. ;D
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Offline Bud Man

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2002, 02:00:30 AM »
Rod---  Dan G is right !!    Bring on the questions, You got me tapping keys.=== Besides,  In less than two days you've mastered : Forest Mensuration, F. Economics, F Products, F Mgmt.,  F. Valuation, Dendrology, Silviculture,-,-,-,etc. :D :D :D          I share Ron W's  and Swo's  thought's ===What are your intentions , as far as keeping or selling??      If you keep you're going to need lots of on going professional help. The good news is : It'll pay for itself many times over !!   A good consulting Forester can lay out all the options and costs as well as returns to expect down the road.   Also federal and state $'s are thin, and as a result of the events of  9-11 are only going to get thinner. Fat cats with connections are probably going to scarf up all of those dollars. Guys like me with a 100 plus or you with 292 acres are probably SOL.!!!     Some "Cheap" things you can do are : Join local Forestry associations , Woodlot owners associations , take  local classes for Tree Farming at universities , and maybe something as simple as getting out and meeting some of your neighbors. The one's that have good looking woodlot's did'nt get that way by accident .(Meet and Ask Lots of Questions).    Also, where's the previous owner,  sounds like he had a mgmt. plan.===     If you sell now , sounds like all you have to gain is $ 26 a ton at the local mill plus what ever it has grown since  97.  If you sell, sell it as a whole. I bet it will bring more as a whole than the sum of two sales, one as tonnage and one as an unattractive clear cut.(Bet you wouldn't have bought an ugly clear-cut)  :-/     If you clear cut and sell, you better cut and sell fast cause "Moderate to Steep Ridge" is gonna get ugly fast.  The Site Index is going to go from 80 to 60 or less.  Then you'll need quick course's in Advanced Silviculture and Real Estate Selling, and the EPA might show up at the closing. :-/   Also See Topic : High Grade --Under : Forestry and Logging on this forum dated : 1-21-02      " Gotta Go Cut Some Z's "    ??
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2002, 01:11:30 PM »
West Virginia has a number of professional Consulting Foresters. To find one near you or that may serve the Clay area Go To The :

Forestry Forum Links
Forestry
Forestry Consultants
Association of Consulting Foresters, Inc.
Find a Forester
West Virginia
~Ron

Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2002, 01:33:31 PM »
Here are some pictures you can cut & paste and put in the address bar of the woods so that you can get some idea of what I'm talking about.

I neved did figure out how to send a picture. :P I guess I need more studing ???


http://communities.msn.com/292ACinBickmoreWestVirginia/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=5

http://communities.msn.com/292ACinBickmoreWestVirginia/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=7

Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2002, 01:36:31 PM »
I see how it works now. :)

Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2002, 02:15:01 PM »
Thanks guys I'm now a tree farmer,  8)

http://www.treefarmsystem.org/treefarm/index.htm

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2002, 08:32:38 PM »
WOW! Rod, that is some pretty land. I'm no judge of hardwood forests, but I know what I like. That kind of land, around here, would bring premium prices if it were selectively cleared for homesites.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2002, 07:09:34 AM »
Thanks Dan G, but some day it will be all gone when the Coal Co comes and starts there strip mining.There is coal under the ground.

Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2002, 09:08:13 AM »
   When I was in WV- 79-92- I think it was Clay Co. that had a lot of strip-mining- you know that road that goes by Somersville dam- and over the New River Gorge-not quite an interstate (back then) but 4 lane in parts and lots of construction. It seemed about that time they had a lot of regulation changes at least about RESTORING the terrain after the strip. What is the status now? Up in Ritchie Co. there's not much coal to speak of but there is oil and gas- they are not supposed to mess with the timber..they just did another well on my place (I don't own the mineral rights) and I haven't been back down to see how it turned out. My caretaker said it looked OK- they didn't touch the maples, and it was on the same bench as the 1st well- alas, near that American Chestnut. Hopefully I'm going down the 2nd week of April, and can check it out then. Transplanting is on the agenda- from there to here..spicebush, peppermint, calamus, sassafrass, possibly trillium, (Billions of white ones down there and we used to have them up here, but now all we have are red.)maybe even a tulip poplar or 2. I'd heard initially they can't handle it in Maine, but then I read otherwise. I will tune up on the toolbox and take my laptop with me..  lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Offline Rod

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2002, 12:36:53 PM »
  Yes  Clay Co. does have a lot of strip-mining.And the status now on reclaming is I'd say about the same,not much you can do with it after there done,but the this side and that side are still batteling it out in the courts.And eveyone is deep drilling for gas,just about evey were..And did they give you free gas from there well,that is if anyone builds on it for a house? And good luck on your transplanting.

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2002, 06:50:44 AM »
   the initial deal was free gas for 1 domestic dwelling. I'd think it wouldn't matter which well. The gas line we put in about 1980 is now toast- I won't know until and unless I re-do that (1/2 mile or better)- how the older well is producing.

  I've learned a lot since I moved to Maine about heating with wood- and I'm rethinking the whole design of the underground house. I think if I end up back there it's going to be a lot more like a greenhouse- 18' roof, southern exposure, very very solar- I could have tress and etc inside. I didn't have the $ or the vision back then to do more than a gargantuan nat gas furnace- which was ok, but we tried for a modified conventional interior. I think it needs to be turned into a jungle in there. That's always the way it was trying to go anyway.

  They make some fair combo wood/coal burning units. The furnace was vulnerable to power outages- it would get nippy after 3-4 days- even with solar gain down to 45* inside at night.

  That state has a lot of advantages, but incredibly low land values and slim to none for employment. :(   lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2002, 07:06:43 PM »
Rod, do you plan on doing any cutting on the property yourslelf ? Or would you have loggers come in to cut it ?  Those were some pretty pics you posted, pretty country up in that neck of the woods.

Gordon

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Re: grows 292 bft,Ac
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2002, 06:41:46 PM »
Beautiful woods Rod. As a non resident landowner you will need a good consulting forester to ride herd on any loggers you may need to employ. It sounds like there is a market for pulp in the area. That's great! If that woods was mine I would divide it into five or six cutting units and harvest one every two or three years. That would generate some cash. This land has had a history of high-grading. To bring it back into full production you need to low-grade it. Cut the junk. Release the few high value trees for maximun growth. At eight rings to the inch for oak 10 to 14 inch trees will be 18 to 22 inches in 32 years. Yellow poplar will get there in 16 years. Your forest is ready to explode in value if you have the patience to see it through. Keep the faith.  


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