grows 292 bft,Ac

[swampwhiteoak]

Timber stand improvement dollars
-Get ready for alphabet soup
As we are still under the 96 Farm Bill there are two programs that can address your situation - FIP (Forest improvement program) and SIP (Stewardship incentives program).  When Congress gets done with the next farm bill these programs will be combined and called something else- and everyone can relearn everything again :.

States have already been allocated FIP funds for fiscal year 2002.  It had been barely funded for the last few years and Ohio's dollars ran out quickly.  Ohio prioritized tree planting over TSI so we didn't even get any new TSI funded this year.  SIP hasn't been funded the last few years although I hear that might change in the near future.  The person to contact for these programs is the service forester in your area.  Each state gets a different amount of funding so I can't comment on WV's situation.  

TSI (Timber Stand Improvement) is a catch all term for a lot of things - precommercial thinning, gravevine control, crop tree release, eliminating exotics, removing unwanted species, ect.

___________

From your other posts I gather that this is a mixed aged stand.  That makes growth calculations on an overall scale more difficult.  Regardless - well cared for trees on a good site are a good investment.  

Perhaps there's a woodland owner's group or something like that in your area.  Attend some meetings and learn some things.

Tell us some more about yourself, Rod.  How long have you owned the property?  Do you plan to keep it?

[Rod]

Well one day when I was driving throug West Viriginia in 1996 I stopped and stayed a night at a motel.The next morning I went over to the station to get a cup of coffee and the town paper just to see what was going on.Will there was an ad in there'' for sale,292 AC'' with the price.I said ...man thats cheap,so I call the guy up he showed me the place went to the town bank and now I'm a timber land owner..

But anyway I though it might be a good invesment for what I'm not sure yet.But I have been offered way over what I paid for it but I don't want to sale it becaue the woods kind of grows on you if you know what I mean.What I would like to know is if you invest x amount of dollars per ac in mangement what would the return be.

The timber Co. around me are not doing it so I was just wanted to no if it was profitable to do it.

Ps I have called the forester here but I believe he's to busy to stop by.

And thanks again guy for all the info,sorry about pick your brains so much. :D

[Ron Scott]

Where in West Virginia is the property located? Maybe I can give you a contact.

[Rod]

Its in Clay

[DanG]

Rod, don't be sorry about picking brains, around here. There are a lot of us who don't know enough to ask the questions you asked, so we all learned a lot. These guys, SWO, the Ron Brothers, et al, enjoy tackling this kind of question, else they would ignore you. The rest of us just thank you for asking something that gives us a learning experience. :P

Now, that being said, if I had that 292 acres, I would just park my mill in the middle of it, and start dragging the biggest logs to it. Haul it out as lumber when you go to get groceries and more beer.  You and a WoodMizer would never be able to keep up with it. ;D

[Bud Man]

Rod---  Dan G is right !!    Bring on the questions, You got me tapping keys.=== Besides,  In less than two days you've mastered : Forest Mensuration, F. Economics, F Products, F Mgmt.,  F. Valuation, Dendrology, Silviculture,-,-,-,etc. :D :D :D          I share Ron W's  and Swo's  thought's ===What are your intentions , as far as keeping or selling??      If you keep you're going to need lots of on going professional help. The good news is : It'll pay for itself many times over !!   A good consulting Forester can lay out all the options and costs as well as returns to expect down the road.   Also federal and state $'s are thin, and as a result of the events of  9-11 are only going to get thinner. Fat cats with connections are probably going to scarf up all of those dollars. Guys like me with a 100 plus or you with 292 acres are probably SOL.!!!     Some "Cheap" things you can do are : Join local Forestry associations , Woodlot owners associations , take  local classes for Tree Farming at universities , and maybe something as simple as getting out and meeting some of your neighbors. The one's that have good looking woodlot's did'nt get that way by accident .(Meet and Ask Lots of Questions).    Also, where's the previous owner,  sounds like he had a mgmt. plan.===     If you sell now , sounds like all you have to gain is $ 26 a ton at the local mill plus what ever it has grown since  97.  If you sell, sell it as a whole. I bet it will bring more as a whole than the sum of two sales, one as tonnage and one as an unattractive clear cut.(Bet you wouldn't have bought an ugly clear-cut)  :-/     If you clear cut and sell, you better cut and sell fast cause "Moderate to Steep Ridge" is gonna get ugly fast.  The Site Index is going to go from 80 to 60 or less.  Then you'll need quick course's in Advanced Silviculture and Real Estate Selling, and the EPA might show up at the closing. :-/   Also See Topic : High Grade --Under : Forestry and Logging on this forum dated : 1-21-02      " Gotta Go Cut Some Z's "    ??

[Ron Scott]

West Virginia has a number of professional Consulting Foresters. To find one near you or that may serve the Clay area Go To The :

Forestry Forum Links
Forestry
Forestry Consultants
Association of Consulting Foresters, Inc.
Find a Forester
West Virginia

[Rod]

Here are some pictures you can cut & paste and put in the address bar of the woods so that you can get some idea of what I'm talking about.

I neved did figure out how to send a picture. :P I guess I need more studing ???


http://communities.msn.com/292ACinBickmoreWestVirginia/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=5

http://communities.msn.com/292ACinBickmoreWestVirginia/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=7

[Rod]

I see how it works now.

[Rod]

Thanks guys I'm now a tree farmer,  8)

http://www.treefarmsystem.org/treefarm/index.htm

[DanG]

WOW! Rod, that is some pretty land. I'm no judge of hardwood forests, but I know what I like. That kind of land, around here, would bring premium prices if it were selectively cleared for homesites.

[Rod]

Thanks Dan G, but some day it will be all gone when the Coal Co comes and starts there strip mining.There is coal under the ground.

[L. Wakefield]

   When I was in WV- 79-92- I think it was Clay Co. that had a lot of strip-mining- you know that road that goes by Somersville dam- and over the New River Gorge-not quite an interstate (back then) but 4 lane in parts and lots of construction. It seemed about that time they had a lot of regulation changes at least about RESTORING the terrain after the strip. What is the status now? Up in Ritchie Co. there's not much coal to speak of but there is oil and gas- they are not supposed to mess with the timber..they just did another well on my place (I don't own the mineral rights) and I haven't been back down to see how it turned out. My caretaker said it looked OK- they didn't touch the maples, and it was on the same bench as the 1st well- alas, near that American Chestnut. Hopefully I'm going down the 2nd week of April, and can check it out then. Transplanting is on the agenda- from there to here..spicebush, peppermint, calamus, sassafrass, possibly trillium, (Billions of white ones down there and we used to have them up here, but now all we have are red.)maybe even a tulip poplar or 2. I'd heard initially they can't handle it in Maine, but then I read otherwise. I will tune up on the toolbox and take my laptop with me..  lw

[Rod]

  Yes  Clay Co. does have a lot of strip-mining.And the status now on reclaming is I'd say about the same,not much you can do with it after there done,but the this side and that side are still batteling it out in the courts.And eveyone is deep drilling for gas,just about evey were..And did they give you free gas from there well,that is if anyone builds on it for a house? And good luck on your transplanting.

[L. Wakefield]

   the initial deal was free gas for 1 domestic dwelling. I'd think it wouldn't matter which well. The gas line we put in about 1980 is now toast- I won't know until and unless I re-do that (1/2 mile or better)- how the older well is producing.

   I've learned a lot since I moved to Maine about heating with wood- and I'm rethinking the whole design of the underground house. I think if I end up back there it's going to be a lot more like a greenhouse- 18' roof, southern exposure, very very solar- I could have tress and etc inside. I didn't have the $ or the vision back then to do more than a gargantuan nat gas furnace- which was ok, but we tried for a modified conventional interior. I think it needs to be turned into a jungle in there. That's always the way it was trying to go anyway.

   They make some fair combo wood/coal burning units. The furnace was vulnerable to power outages- it would get nippy after 3-4 days- even with solar gain down to 45* inside at night.

   That state has a lot of advantages, but incredibly low land values and slim to none for employment. :(   lw

[Gordon]

Rod, do you plan on doing any cutting on the property yourslelf ? Or would you have loggers come in to cut it ?  Those were some pretty pics you posted, pretty country up in that neck of the woods.

Gordon

[Tarm]

Beautiful woods Rod. As a non resident landowner you will need a good consulting forester to ride herd on any loggers you may need to employ. It sounds like there is a market for pulp in the area. That's great! If that woods was mine I would divide it into five or six cutting units and harvest one every two or three years. That would generate some cash. This land has had a history of high-grading. To bring it back into full production you need to low-grade it. Cut the junk. Release the few high value trees for maximun growth. At eight rings to the inch for oak 10 to 14 inch trees will be 18 to 22 inches in 32 years. Yellow poplar will get there in 16 years. Your forest is ready to explode in value if you have the patience to see it through. Keep the faith.