Some 041's for your assesment

[shinnlinger]

Hello,

For some reason people keep giving me 041's and I now have 3 examples, but as you can see they came from different era's of production.  I assume the one on the right is the oldest and the one on the left is the newest.  Are these saws particularly desirable?  They all sort of run and probably could be made to run with a carb rebuild and other freshening up.  I might take one on as a restore project just cause. 

Any pointers?

[gspren]

   I still have the 041 that I bought new in the mid-late ? 70s. Mine is not the AV so it gets to my wrists if I run it much. I keep it thinking someday I'll fall into a good (cheap) deal on a Lewis Winch and I think it would be ideal for winching. It is dependable.

[sablatnic]

I was given one too, a couple of months ago, a runner.

[HolmenTree]

The reason Stihl never sold as a  70cc and under pro saw in our logging areas back in the 1970's .
The Stihl 041 couldn't compete with the Husqvarna 162 and Jonsereds 621 and 70E

[HolmenTree]

I should have included this in my last post.
The 038 introduced in 1980 made a bit of ground in our area but still didn't match the 162 Husky.

In 1982 the Husqvarna 266 and 181 along with the Jonsered 630 sunk the Stihl ship. The 034 Stihl introduced in 1984 with the side tensioner ,easy access air filter gained some Husky and Jonsered loyals respect.
But not until 1986 the 064 and 084 gained alot of respect but we still didn't have a competitive 70cc and under Stihl yet. That changed in late 1988-early 1989 with the 044.

[sawguy21]

The 041 and 041AV were popular in our area with the farmers and wood lot owners, I started on saws in the mid 70's and saw a lot of them. Some loggers used them for bucking and slashing. The 'laydowns' were good but couldn't compete with Husqvarna, too slow, too heavy and maintenance intensive. A lot of guys cutting big fir and cedar did go with the 051AV and 075AV because of the torque, Husky didn't have anything that would run the long bars and .404 chain. Jonsered is virtually unknown in western Canada.

[HolmenTree]

Yes the 041 Stihl market definitely was poplar in the farming communities as I remember my boyhood farm life.
Husqvarna did well in the 1970's with the 2100 on the west coast of BC first introduced in 1974 as the 1100.
Jonsereds found a few loyal pro loggers in that area with the 111

[HolmenTree]

The 041 was revolutionary as first of a kind as this 1969 ad shows
Notice the Oregon Sawchain logo.


 

[drobertson]

My first saw was the 041 farmboss, not an AV, it was a fine saw, just lots of vibration, and when the 038 supers came out, well, this one was put away.

[HolmenTree]

My first saw was the 041 farmboss, not an AV, it was a fine saw, just lots of vibration, and when the 038 supers came out, well, this one was put away.

You may be referring to a 040 without the AV first introduced in 1966. But 1966 was the first year Stihl developed AV.
The 041 always was a AV model first introduced in 1968, then in 1969 as a 041 AV Electonic.


 

[shinnlinger]

Those ads are great.   It appears I have an early one.    I will clean it up.    1969.  The year a 20 lb saw was "feather light"

[shinnlinger]

I have seen the claim of 5.5 hp before with with these saws but I will go on record as saying that is a tad optimistic....

[gspren]

My first saw was the 041 farmboss, not an AV, it was a fine saw, just lots of vibration, and when the 038 supers came out, well, this one was put away.

You may be referring to a 040 without the AV first introduced in 1966. But 1966 was the first year Stihl developed AV.
The 041 always was a AV model first introduced in 1968, then in 1969 as a 041 AV Electonic.


 

   My 041 Farmboss is Not an AV and I have seen others so not all 041s wereAV.

[drobertson]

It was an 041 farmboss, not an av, a good ole saw, not that light, but a good brute for the time, of course, I've never spent days in the timber like many have, just enough to know it's for big boys ;D  back in the early 80's it did seem like Dolmar and Jonesred were big items around here.

[Scruboak]

When i was still on the farm my grandfather had a pair of O41's that looked just like the one on the far left in the above pics!!  Those things would scream thru the wood!!  In the spring we took the bar off of them and put an auger bit on and tap maple trees for syrup. Just a quick blip of the throttle and you had a nice spile hole    Ah the memories!,

[HolmenTree]

My first saw was the 041 farmboss, not an AV, it was a fine saw, just lots of vibration, and when the 038 supers came out, well, this one was put away.

You may be referring to a 040 without the AV first introduced in 1966. But 1966 was the first year Stihl developed AV.
The 041 always was a AV model first introduced in 1968, then in 1969 as a 041 AV Electonic.


 

   My 041 Farmboss is Not an AV and I have seen others so not all 041s wereAV.

AV means "anti vibe" . 
Can you post a pic of your non AV 041 ?

[HolmenTree]

Let me re- phrase my last post . Some times Stihl adds a new name to a certain saw model and will drop the AV [anti-vibe] like they did with the 038AV, the 064AV but the saws still had anti vibe.

Your 041 Farm Boss may have lost the AV logo but didn't lose its AV...all 041s had AV.... confusing isn't it? :D

[shinnlinger]

I don't know about that.  The 041 AV clearly has rubber mounts at the end of its trigger handle and a 041 Farm Boss does not.  Whats the difference in the two saws if they both had AV?

[shinnlinger]

Web search says the AV version came out in 67 and went to 86? but the FB didn't come along until 76.   I wonder what the price difference on the two saws was.  I will look at my serial numbers.  I have an early one for sure but the left ones seem to be newer than the late 70's versions.

[beenthere]

Bought my Stihl 041 in June 1975, and it doesn't have any anti-vibe.
Was hard to get used to the AV in the MS361, as I thought it wasn't cutting when I couldn't "feel" the teeth in the wood. Couldn't figure out for a short while why I thought I had to push the saw into the wood.
The 041 served me well and still runs, but I seldom use it anymore.
Am told it is a collector with that Stihl logo on the side. Don't know anything about that.


 

[sawguy21]

That is definitely an 041. They were not as popular as the AV but did have a following in the farming ranching community due to price. I liked them for the weight but they have put on a paunch (like me) over the years. ;D

[drobertson]

HT, I gave the ole saw to an ole friend, wish I had kept it now I suppose, but at the time it was the right thing to do. It was a good saw, just stung the hands and arms after a tank of gas.  I thought it was the best til I ran an 038 super (av)  like beenthere said, weird to go through a log and not feel anything :D  kinda nice!

[HolmenTree]

Thanks for the pic Beenthere. I learn something everyday ;D
Sorry about my ignorance on the matter guys. I should study up more on the consumer saws.

I understand the cost saving in the non anti vibe Farm Boss.

[beenthere]

Not a problem HT.
That saw was $300 in 1975. 

Four years later (1979), I was in Austria and Germany, and the 041's were selling for about three times that price in US dollars in their retail markets (IIRC).

[sawguy21]

I remember a customer who bought an 041AV at an auction. Couldn't get it to run so brought it to me, the p&c were toast. I got it up to speed and he left happy but was now within 50 bucks of a new one. A few days later he came back, stalling in the cut. It worked fine for me so I watched while he tried, he dropped it on the log then squeezed the trigger.  : He grew up in a logging family, I had assumed he knew how to operate it.
A week later he was back with the saw in a box, the carburetor was about all that was salvageable. Seems he came across his buddies trying to drop a big pine with a small saw, they had gone around the tree and left a bolt in the middle. He sez I can do that and went into their cut, tree went the wrong way so he dropped the saw and ran. It took out the saw and his truck. He was good natured about it, nothing really bothered him.

[shinnlinger]

He was probably just glad he crushed an older saw and hadn't bought a new one....

[HolmenTree]

Bought my Stihl 041 in June 1975, and it doesn't have any anti-vibe.
Am told it is a collector with that Stihl logo on the side. Don't know anything about that.


 

Yes those old log cross section badges on the rewind housings were nice. Stihl used that design up until 1976 then they went to the plain rectangle Stihl badge plate.

[Kilbourn_wi]

Bought my Stihl 041 in June 1975, and it doesn't have any anti-vibe.
Was hard to get used to the AV in the MS361, as I thought it wasn't cutting when I couldn't "feel" the teeth in the wood. Couldn't figure out for a short while why I thought I had to push the saw into the wood.
The 041 served me well and still runs, but I seldom use it anymore.
Am told it is a collector with that Stihl logo on the side. Don't know anything about that.


 

Just wondering "Beenthere" what ever happened to your 041? Still have it?

[sawguy21]

One of the later ones from the 80's. They were a great saw in their time but kinda heavy by todays standards.

[Fishnuts2]

I got this old 041 with the "Red Top" which I was told was the first generation.  No AV on him.

 

 

 

[gspren]

My 041 Farmboss has no AV so I don't use it too much but enough every year to keep it going. I keep an older chain on it and yesterday used it to cut some small saplings (3-4") down to ground level.

[Eddie Southgate]

He was probably just glad he crushed an older saw and hadn't bought a new one....

I suspect he was very glad that a saw , truck and pair of drawers were all that were damaged . 
I bought two 041's recently and me and my youngest son both love them .  I would post a few pictures but haven't figured the system out yet .

[Eddie Southgate]

 

  041 AV Electronic Not real sure why they wrote Choke on the top but it is removed now . 

[Eddie Southgate]

041 AV  

Kinda git it figured,,,,, I think .

[Timberguytim]

Just wanted to rekindle this thread. I'm a 041 lover. Started with my first used saw in 1973....an 041AV with breaker points, must be a 1968, eh? I started a firewood business with this saw, a splitting maul, and a homemade pickup box trailer. Cut alot of ice with it as well for our 2 small resorts in remote NW Ontario. Having an outboard clutch is not ideal for ice, as it picks up too much water/ice dust. Later went to a 999 Olympic, that too, although not short of power....would pick up water on the clutch. The 064 and 880 Magnum took to ice cutting better, with the shielded inboard clutch. Many here have no idea how much power is consumed when cutting up to 28" thick ice. But getting back to the 041, yes I had to install a new jug/piston, which was the larger bore, (Super), made in Italy. I continued my firewood business to this very day, 47 years later....with mostly using this very same 1968 041 AV. Running the very same 20" Stihl Duromatic bar with 3/8" full chisel. It has always been on a strict diet of 100:1 Amsoil pre mix 2 stroke and mixed at 2 oz. per gallon of non oxy fuel, (64:1). The last 10 years, I switched to Amsoil Saber mixed at 80:1. This saw has diced hundreds and hundreds of cords of oak, maple, birch, ash, poplar, and even ironwood. Other saws have come and gone, but the 041 has been my favorite.

[mike_belben]

here is a basket case 041 i did for my dad for a fathers day way back.  

























it was pretty hammered when given to me or maybe i bought it,, i dont actually remember.  but it was a lot of sandpaper and scratch filler.  i got one little run in the clear there from a cold spray temp.

it has a welded dome on the piston, a cut base, gasket delete, and port timing that is closer to modern.  there is a ton of compression and i knew they had torque to spare so with no decompressor stock port timing would probably break the starter or rope. i also put on a clutch/rim sprocket system and new 20" bar 3/8 .058 bar.  the saw still has torque to spare but the extra timing brought the revs up quite a bit in the cut.  if i remember right, about 2k rpm faster in the cut but still slow compared to modern saws.

and theres where the issue comes in.  old saws had the jug laid down, carb up top and plug out the back.  with too much port timing they revert a cloud of fuel out of the carb in the midrange then suck it back in once there is enough rpm to create the vacuum over the carb.  so you cant really tune it right.  either you can tune the idle or tube the top and theres a big bog in the transition as the fuel mist blows out of the carb.  this is why the carbs all have a 90 degree turn in the air horn in my opinion.. to bounce there reversion waves back in or at least keep that fuel in the machine.

i had it apart a bunch of times and it kept scoring a bit on the exhaust side, those mufflers werent great once you really made a runner out of them.. too much heat trapped on the exhaust side.  so i built a mini pipe that is hiding under the cover.  it was really just for heat rejection and has no expansion chamber, just a flange that causes the pulses to crash into the perpendicular tee pipe and cancel out.  the end of the pipe has a washer to keep things quiet.  it sounds pretty good actually. like an old dirtbike pup pup pupp pupp'n away.

[Rick237]

My first and only saw is an 041 AV which I got new about fifty years ago. It has a very, very hard pull but it rips through logs after I learned how to use and maintain it. That learning curve took about two years of cutting firewood and I am still learning. It is still extremely hard to start. I can only get one compression stroke assuming that my arm is not stopped dead by the compression or back fire. It still boggles my mind why anyone would manufacture a machine that is so difficult to start.  I was living in a cabin in the Maine woods.

Over the years, I have cut and split many cords and it is still very hard to start. After the first start, I am able to drop start it when it conks out because the idle is too low. I confess that I did bring it to a professional two times over the years complaining about hard starting and both times, they drop started it with no problems. I was shocked and told them that they were making me look bad. They did acknowledge that it is a hard pull which made me feel a little better. The bottom line is that starting a high compression saw is not for amateurs. 

I now live in the burbs just north of Boston where I routinely see and hear professional tree workers with a bucket truck and large chipper. I don't want to brag but when it comes to ripping through a log, me and my 041 can match anyone of those pros. I do give a lot of credit to the young workers because they are as good as myself who has fifty years of experience while they might only have a year or two. 

I am glad to have found this discussion because my saw stopped working a few days ago. The starter won't grab because the nylon insert starter ring has worn smooth. So, I have been searching the internet for two days and it looks like that insert is not to be found. My fly wheel part number is 1110 086 0500. Maybe I can find a clever mechanic who can invent a solution? I have heard about 3D printing but know nothing about it. Maybe someone has an idea? 

A few years ago, I invented a simple device that helps a lot with starting problems. I drilled a quarter inch hole into the top of my filter cover which I use to inject some fuel mix with a glass eye dropper and the cover with a piece of tape. It works great and has saved me many, many pulls. I have also used carb cleaner, acetone, starter fluid, fuel injection cleaner, and they all work. And, I don't care if it blows up a piston because it works great. I then did it to my lawn mower which now starts on the first pull instead of the ninth pull. I hope that this simple primer idea helps someone because I never heard of it even though it would not surprise me if thousands of others also invented it because it is so simple and commonsenseable. Thanks for letting me vent my problems. Rick aka Freedom_First(at)verizon(dot)net

PS. When I was living in the Maine woods during the 70's, the most popular saw among the pros was Jonesred.

PS2. When I first saw the St, Croix river running through Calais, I was shocked because it was foaming and smelled very bad. They called it the smell of money.  

[mike_belben]

Rick.  Its been long enough.  Treat yourself to the wonders of a 1990s or newer pro saw. Not knockin the 041 but I will feel bad if you never do.  Even a 50CC. 

[Rick237]

Thanks Mike -- You are probably right.  It did last a long time,
but not a lifetime.   :laugh:

[Don P]

I did get a new aftermarket side cover for an 038 from HL Supply several years ago but an 041 is old, not sure. My 041 farm boss has been gone a very long time.

[Rick237]

Thanks Don -- They did have a lot of parts, but not the
one I needed. I just put a thin coat of glue, e600), onto
the nylon insert for a shot in the dark. I expect it to work at
least for one start. 

[Timberguytim]

Great discussion. My O41 AV has been with me almost 55 years now. It used to start like Ricks. Years ago I put an 041 Super carb that I bought off the internet, right through this android phone. The carb was slightly larger throat. I will look at the records. It cost only 30 bucks. WOW! Big difference. Made on China. The 041 starts on 1st pull every time. Starts 2nd or third pull when below freezing. It's an animal and can run with my 71cc John Deere, (actually an Italian made Olympic). The Olympic has a decompressor and it needs it too. For starting the 041, I get it right near top dead center, then pick up slack on the recoil. I drop left arm while snapping firmly the recoil with my right arm. Honestly, I prefer to start all my saws this way, not on the ground, or fixed between my legs. That goes for my 999 Olympic as well as my older 880 Magnum.

[Rick237]

I have also owned my 041 for about 55 years. The fact that you can easily start your machine blows my mind because my machine has always been difficult to start. For the past year, it has been extremely difficult to start. Sometimes taking thirty minutes. I recently bought a cheap china carb and it worked great but it idled way to fast. The throttle plate has a hole in it just like the choke plate which is definitely not a good idea. I will probably remove the plate and cover the hole with a small piece of gorilla tape. I did have one piece of luck. I wore out the starter ring and the starter cord would no longer grab. So, I was ready to give up but thought of an idea. I put a thin coat of e600 glue on the inside of the nylon ring, waited two days and added another coat. I just tried it today and it worked perfect. I did about 150 pulls but only got it to run for a few seconds, 6 or seven times and then gave up for the day. I know that I need a new saw but I hate to admit defeat so will keep trying. I don't have much experience working on saws because my one and only saw has been very reliable for decades. I always loved it because, as you know, it rips.

[mike_belben]

Whats gonna rip is the tendon in your shoulder!  Its not worth it rick. Ive still got the laproscopic images and scars from mine. 

Found the pics of the portwork, block work,  jug matching to the crankcase, and dome i welded onto the 041 i gave dad.  The dimpled pockets got filled with epoxy to raise the base compression ratio and offset the material i removed to fix the transition. 

[Rick237]

Thanks Mike -- More great advice. I did develop some nerve pain in my right hip from pulling and twisting at the same time in an attempt to increase my pulling power. Thanks for the great pictures, very interesting. I have no doubt that if I had your knowledge, My machine would be running great. I recently went from a 40:1 mix back to the recommended 25:1 mix and noticed that change made it harder to start. My background in electronics tells me that newer saws probably have a better ignition system with a stronger spark able to jump a bigger gap. The recommended gap on my non-electronic system is only .012" to .016" where the gap on the 041 electronic is .02" That's a big difference.

[gspren]

@Rick237 , I run all my 2 strokes with 40-1 including my old 041, the 25-1 recommended was more a oil quality thing and with modern oils 40 or 50 to 1 should not harm anything. 

[mike_belben]

I would grind the strap back so the spark jumps sideways.  Some people call it deshrouding, it exposes the spark to more fuel particles which does get the flame propogated faster.  Easier starts are the most noticeable part.

Gap wise i just make sure its big and bright and hits every time. Too much gap and itll start missing from increased resistance, i dont care what any book says and ive dont recall ever a failed coil.  Honestly a ground back strap makes a bright spark without much gap.

You gotta know how to tune by ear.  Madsens saw shop has the best article youll find.  Id run 40:1 and tune for that. Lots of oil just fouls faster and makes harder starts. Me personally always 87 octane.  Raising the octane just raised the autoignition temp.  Doesnt help get a cold fire going one bit.  

Saws run way too fast for detonation which is what the octane is for. You ever heard a 2 stroke pinging up a hill like a chevy 305 full of marbles hitched to a trailer?

[Rick237]

Thanks Mike -- That is a lot of good information for me. I am glad to hear that 40:1 is better than 25:1 I will fix that right away. Exposing the spark to more fuel particles sounds perfect for better starting. However, I am embarassed to say that I didn't understand exactly what to grind. I will try something and since I do have a camera I will try to figure out how to post a picture of what I did.

[mike_belben]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ngk-2422?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAiAiKuOBhBQEiwAId_sKwAY1QzlM8NkXb2kUjGuxfxmrdBb9MMfXFmTQcsAOr-WXh632_ir8RoC5yoQAvD_BwE

Ngk now makes strapless plugs.  The spark jumps sideways and is exposed to the entire chamber with no impediments and no strap to fall off or glow red and cause preignition risk.

if you can make your single strap spark jump sideways to a shortened electrode without breaking off and wrecking the engine then itll help a bit. 


 Youll have to bend the strap out, grind it to about the elbow, smooth and round the edges then gap it back toward the electrode so it looks like a leaning fencepost.  Youll probably see a brighter spark even at the same gap.   Brighter spark is always gonna be a benefit to getting the flame lit but increased gap to make it brighter is a larger load on the coil. Hard to say where the performance/longevity sweet spot is. 


Still, getting the tune nailed is more important.

(Google brisk premium multispark.  Thats a cool development!)

[Rick237]

Thanks Mike for that clarification. It is now perfectly clear. I did cut off half of the bottom electrode at the elbow which made the spark half way between 90 degrees and parallel to the top of the piston and then figured out that if I cut a little more, I could bend it to the right gap and get the spark parallel to the top of the piston. The spark worked great outside of the saw but I could not test it inside because I wore out the starting ring and
could not move the piston.  My simple ring patch did get about two hundred pulls before failing.

That strapless plug looks like a commonsense, great design and it only costs one extra dollar.

I will have to check out the carb tune link that you provided because I did try once to tune mine while it was running and was not able because of the vibration. I do have a heavy vice which may be needed.

Have been watching a lot of chainsaw videos and I am shocked
at how easy they all start compared to mine.