I didn't want to hijack the fabrication thread so I figured I'd start a separate one.
I'm building an off-road walking beam log trailer to haul out logs and maybe add a dumbbody to it for moving dirt. The frame rails are 5x5 tubing. The 'deck' is 12ft long.
I was going to use 4x4x3/8 tubing for the walking beams, but the price stopped that. $1650 for a 20ft piece!
I'm going to build it with what I have and upgrade later if needed.
I have some 3x3x3/16 and some 2x4x1/4 that I can use for the walking beams. I don't know which one is stronger given the size differences. Does anyone have an idea which is better suited for the walking beam?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210215_142507515.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613763779)
I don't have an answer to your question but am interested in the thread.
Based on 12' length and the perceived width it sounds like it will hold about a cord when done? Cord of red oak on FF calc says 5700lbs, cord of beech 4900lbs, cord of white pine 3200lbs, would size for the heavyweights if you can.
There is a guy online that makes and sells walking beam ATV trailers, here are his specs for about half the size of yours:
Quote
- walking beams (tandem axle): 1 ½" x 3 x 3/16" HSS with closed, beveled ends, painted steel frame
- axles: 1-1/2" cold rolled round bar inside 1 ½" sch 80 pipe, fitted with a grease nipple
- box measures 24" wide at the base and 48" wide at the top
- box sides are 24" high
- box length: 6'-"0 long
Looking forward to seeing it progress!
Quote from: mudfarmer on February 19, 2021, 02:52:01 PM
I don't have an answer to your question but am interested in the thread.
Based on 12' length and the perceived width it sounds like it will hold about a cord when done? Cord of red oak on FF calc says 5700lbs, cord of beech 4900lbs, cord of white pine 3200lbs, would size for the heavyweights if you can.
There is a guy online that makes and sells walking beam ATV trailers, here are his specs for about half the size of yours:
Quote
- walking beams (tandem axle): 1 ½" x 3 x 3/16" HSS with closed, beveled ends, painted steel frame
- axles: 1-1/2" cold rolled round bar inside 1 ½" sch 80 pipe, fitted with a grease nipple
- box measures 24" wide at the base and 48" wide at the top
- box sides are 24" high
- box length: 6'-"0 long
Looking forward to seeing it progress!
I think a cord is a good goal for it. I'll primarily use it for saw logs over firewood. I think the heaviest load could be if I end up putting a dump body on it and loading it with dirt.
Structural engineering isn't my area of expertise, so usually I just err on the heavy side, but I think I did the math right on these.
I calculated the area and moment of inertia for the two sizes I have and it looks like the 2x4x1/4 has a slightly bigger area (2.75 vs 2.1 sq in) and a significantly better moment of inertia (5.3 vs 2.79). It looks like I'll go with the 2x4 for the walking beams. I'm going to build the hangers so I can swap out to up to 4 in wide square tubing in the future if needed and just use a bushing to fill in the space with the 2" tubing.
The 12' long is a good idea as you'll be able to get 16' on without them sliding off the back when you go thru a dip. My trailer is 8' and ground clearance is about 14" so I have to load the bottom with 8s then put 10s 12s on and 8s on top to hold everything down. If I have 16's I have to get an use the hay wagon trailer.
Definitely need the first courses to be short wood. I had a long one empty the entire trailer in a dip once. That was aggravating.
Quote from: mjeselskis on February 19, 2021, 02:28:26 PM
I didn't want to hijack the fabrication thread so I figured I'd start a separate one.
I'm building an off-road walking beam log trailer to haul out logs and maybe add a dumbbody to it for moving dirt. The frame rails are 5x5 tubing. The 'deck' is 12ft long.
I was going to use 4x4x3/8 tubing for the walking beams, but the price stopped that. $1650 for a 20ft piece!
I'm going to build it with what I have and upgrade later if needed.
I have some 3x3x3/16 and some 2x4x1/4 that I can use for the walking beams. I don't know which one is stronger given the size differences. Does anyone have an idea which is better suited for the walking beam?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210215_142507515.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613763779)
Looking good. Nice use of the high lift jack with the top piece folded down. That does sound crazy for the new steel
Quote from: mike_belben on February 20, 2021, 11:47:16 AMDefinitely need the first courses to be short wood. I had a long one empty the entire trailer in a dip once. That was aggravating.
We call that automatic unloading... and I meant to do that... yeah that's it... this was just the spot I wanted to unload the trailer.
I got the walking beams done except for the center pivot today.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210220_142141765.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613854114)
Looking good :)
where are you thinking for axle placement % fore/aft?
And what about a tongue length?
D
Quote from: dgdrls on February 20, 2021, 06:39:55 PM
Looking good :)
where are you thinking for axle placement % fore/aft?
And what about a tongue length?
D
Thanks.
I'm not sure where to put the axle. I'm leaning towards putting it about 4ft in from the back which is 1/3 of the deck. I don't know if there's a good way to figure out the best placement. If I put a log loader on it someday, that will end up with more weight on the tractor end, but without a loader, I don't want to end up light on tongue weight if I'm hauling long logs. Any recommendations?
I'm thinking around 5-6ft for the tongue. I want it long enough that the tongue hits the back tire only if I jackknife it (intentionally or otherwise...)
I better post so I can follow the build!!!!
No matter where you put the axle youll wish it was someplace else every now and then.
I suggest you measure your tow vehicles distance from steer axle to hitch ball and then make your trailers axle about that far behind the hitch. This will give a pretty neutral steering ratio. The hitch pivot point is roughly half way and the trailer will stay pretty well in the same lane as the tractor.
I have a trailer that gets used behind a quad, a mid size tractor and a fairly long wheelbase 2ton crewcab. The extremes feel ugly but the tractor is sorta equal and feels the best. You almost dont have to look back at clearance when the hitch is centered because it follows nearly as well as an articulated chassis. Granted the distance from hitch to rear axle has an effect. The shorter the stinger the more youll have jackknife interference. But the longer it is the more youll wheelie.
Dont make a headache rack until youve tried it a lot, and when you do, make it moveable because the loader will change the balance point for the wood pile quite a bit. I have to pile wood over and forward of the rack on mine to get the balance right. My headache rack is in the wrong place.
Well.. A lot of that is me being lazy and piling 18ft pieces on that i shoulda cut in two. But youll learn fast once you get out in the woods.
Quote from: mjeselskis on February 20, 2021, 07:05:50 PM
Quote from: dgdrls on February 20, 2021, 06:39:55 PM
Looking good :)
where are you thinking for axle placement % fore/aft?
And what about a tongue length?
D
Thanks.
I'm not sure where to put the axle. I'm leaning towards putting it about 4ft in from the back which is 1/3 of the deck. I don't know if there's a good way to figure out the best placement. If I put a log loader on it someday, that will end up with more weight on the tractor end, but without a loader, I don't want to end up light on tongue weight if I'm hauling long logs. Any recommendations?
I'm thinking around 5-6ft for the tongue. I want it long enough that the tongue hits the back tire only if I jackknife it (intentionally or otherwise...)
Just look and I'm sure you have where the others place them. Looking good
Quote from: mjeselskis on February 20, 2021, 03:50:03 PM
I got the walking beams done except for the center pivot today.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210220_142141765.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613854114)
I really like the quality of your work i noticed you added the extra gussets for bracing the axels, a small item maybe to some but it adds strength for side loading when needed.
Nice job. We built the trailer with a swivel pintle hitch so if the trailer rolls over the tractor does not . The axel on the walking beam was a tad forward so it would climb over a stump better.
Quote from: axeman2021 on February 21, 2021, 10:40:21 AM
Quote from: mjeselskis on February 20, 2021, 03:50:03 PM
I got the walking beams done except for the center pivot today.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210220_142141765.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613854114)
I really like the quality of your work i noticed you added the extra gussets for bracing the axels, a small item maybe to some but it adds strength for side loading when needed.
Thanks, the axles are not as beefy as I'd like if I were buying new, but they were free, so they'll work. I've learned that a few small gussets can make a big difference on the strength of a joint. It just takes some extra fab and welding time.
Quote from: Stephen Alford on February 21, 2021, 12:01:04 PM
Nice job. We built the trailer with a swivel pintle hitch so if the trailer rolls over the tractor does not . The axel on the walking beam was a tad forward so it would climb over a stump better.
I think I'm either going to use a swivel on the hitch or just make it with a 2 5/16 ball hitch so it can pivot. Using a ball hitch will also make it easier to move with a truck if needed. I'm assuming if the trailer flips, the ball will pivot enough to not flip the tractor.
Are you saying that the pivot point on the walking beam on your trailer is forward of the center?
Yes...that was 25 years ago. Just searching the net and do not find many examples of that concept. Helps going ahead but works against you if you have to back up a lot. Trailers worked well for our old field white spruce sites. My focus was on hardwood thinnings.
The trailer in our hardwood sites did not work well. Went to winch and grapple options on the tractor. The trailer is used on the landing and now has 7000 lb torflex axle and in the process of getting a VIN number. The purpose is just to move from site to site for sorting and loading.
As a side note the fold out legs worked better in the woods than the ones that scoped you were able to put them out to reduce tipping and worked good on rough terrain.
Quote from: mjeselskis on February 20, 2021, 07:05:50 PMI'm not sure where to put the axle. I'm leaning towards putting it about 4ft in from the back which is 1/3 of the deck. I don't know if there's a good way to figure out the best placement. If I put a log loader on it someday, that will end up with more weight on the tractor end, but without a loader, I don't want to end up light on tongue weight if I'm hauling long logs. Any recommendations?
Bolt it on? Then you can move it easier if you add a loader.
Is your centre pivot going to be above the walking beam?
Definitely have the walking beam pivot mount over the beam and be generous in height there or you will have to use 6 or 8x more metal to make the stakes have a high step in order for the walking beam to clear the wood. On a single axle trailer you can have like 4 inches of tire clearance between logs and rubber but on a walking beam you need a foot or so or else every stump you climb the tire will be popping logs up or skidding over the log.
Quote from: mike_belben on February 21, 2021, 06:00:27 PM
Definitely have the walking beam pivot mount over the beam and be generous in height there or you will have to use 6 or 8x more metal to make the stakes have a high step in order for the walking beam to clear the wood. On a single axle trailer you can have like 4 inches of tire clearance between logs and rubber but on a walking beam you need a foot or so or else every stump you climb the tire will be popping logs up or skidding over the log.
Quote from: Hilltop366 on February 21, 2021, 04:59:03 PM
Quote from: mjeselskis on February 20, 2021, 07:05:50 PMI'm not sure where to put the axle. I'm leaning towards putting it about 4ft in from the back which is 1/3 of the deck. I don't know if there's a good way to figure out the best placement. If I put a log loader on it someday, that will end up with more weight on the tractor end, but without a loader, I don't want to end up light on tongue weight if I'm hauling long logs. Any recommendations?
Bolt it on? Then you can move it easier if you add a loader.
Is your centre pivot going to be above the walking beam?
I was going to make the walking beam pivot right in the middle of the beam, but it sounds like the consensus is to put it on top. That will give me a little more clearance to help with the tires hitting the load, which is something I worried about.
I may see if I can make a way to bolt the axle on so I can move it. Welding it solid is just so much easier!
I ordered the walking beam pivot bolts and tube today so hopefully it will ship quick.
You could put a single axle and leaf springs under it, and weld a cut up rim and bracing ontop the walking beam channel for bolt on conversion from 2 wheeler to four and road worthy suspension.
Mine is just a cut down 3500lb car trailer idler axle that was bent and given to me.. With an A-frame neck welded straight to it. I pull a cord on a pair of 33" trxus swampers and its been about 60 mph with no suspension for a short spell.
For the hitch I'd use a rotating pintle or similar
For the walking beam I would build the pivot in the middle of the beam
and basically mimic the Hendrickson R system
Then bolt it to the frame,if you find you don't like the tongue weight or add the loader
you can slide it to where it works better.
This is a pretty good site to compute the axle placement
Trailer Axle Position - Trailer Building: Where Does The Axle Go? (https://mechanicalelements.com/trailer-axle-position)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/Hendrickson_R.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1613959544)
D
I made a little progress tonight, and got the first walking beam pivot mocked up and tacked in place. The pivot bolt is a 1 1/8" wet bolt and the tube is 1 3/4"OD x 1 1/8"" ID DOM tubing.
I was going to put the pivot tube on top of the walking beam, but I didn't like how it laid out and it looked weak. I lost maybe a couple inches of clearance, but it should be stronger going through the tube.
I may end up putting a spacer in between the trailer frame and axle but I'll have to wait to see how it all looks once I get it all mocked up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210225_192139113.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1614301018)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210225_191907442.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1614301315)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210225_192139113.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1614301018)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210225_192336484.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1614301307)
Looking great 👍 👍
How have you been cutting everything. Bandsaw
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 25, 2021, 09:15:55 PM
How have you been cutting everything. Bandsaw
We have an Evolution cold cut chop saw that we got for another project. I highly recommend it for anyone doing metal work.
https://store.evolutionpowertools.com/products/evosaw380
Good to know you like it. I've got one that's still in the box. I'll be looking forward to using it vs the regular chop saw. I see they got a new model out looks like it has a heavier base. What model do you have
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 26, 2021, 09:07:31 AM
Good to know you like it. I've got one that's still in the box. I'll be looking forward to using it vs the regular chop saw. I see they got a new model out looks like it has a heavier base. What model do you have
We bought the EVOSAW380 steelsaw2 about 6 years ago. It has a cast base and it's about 50 lbs and plenty rugged. We're on our second blade and I probably should get a new one but this one is still cutting ok even with a few missing or broken teeth.
what RPM is it, how big is the blade and does it use coolant? i have all the stuff to build one eventually when the machine shop gets unmothballed and put back in service.
Looking good.
Quote from: mike_belben on February 26, 2021, 11:54:15 AM
what RPM is it, how big is the blade and does it use coolant? i have all the stuff to build one eventually when the machine shop gets unmothballed and put back in service.
Mike,
It's 1450 RPM with a 14" blade. I think you can buy a 15" blade. No coolant. When the blade is in good shape, there's hardly any heat generated. Even with the blade I have now with broken and missing teeth, I can pick up the cut piece immediately after cutting it
@Walnut Beast (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=49695) Did you pick that up around here? It looks much better than my chop saw.
Online. If you get one the newer one has a three star handle and the previous has a round clamping wheel. It's abour 70 bucks more. I was going to call corporate in Iowa and ask about it. It looks like a little heavier base and a little better clamping. They say like you heard hear they work awesome
I have a pile of old blades from s&w. Be a while before i had to buy one especially if i sharpen them.
The axle is mocked up under the trailer. I ran the numbers on a few different axle locations to check tongue weight. I think I'm going to put the axle centerline at 7' 3" back from the front of the deck. That will give me a fair amount of tongue weight for traction, but keeps the tongue weight well under my drawbar rating of 2500lbs even with 8,000 lbs on the trailer.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210303_173314740.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1614810790)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210228_151236531.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1614556091)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210228_163110765.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1614556163)
What are you going to pull the trailer with
Looking pretty awesome. How thick is the 5x5 tubing
Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 03, 2021, 06:21:45 PM
What are you going to pull the trailer with
I'll pull it with my tractor, John Deere 5300.
Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 03, 2021, 06:24:54 PM
Looking pretty awesome. How thick is the 5x5 tubing
Thanks. The 5x5 on the frame rails is 1/4", and the tongue is 3/8"
Built heavy duty. I like it!! I was thinking of the pivot point on your walking beam. Probably will work for quite awhile but being able to get some grease in there would help. Some round stock with heavy wall stock over the top with some grease fittings taped in could have been done but that would have taken a little more time
Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 03, 2021, 06:39:42 PM
Built heavy duty. I like it!! I was thinking of the pivot point on your walking beam. Probably will work for quite awhile but being able to get some grease in there would help. Some round stock with heavy wall stock over the top with some grease fittings taped in could have been done but that would have taken a little more time
I see it looks like you got a way to get some grease in 👍
What are you going to do on a hitch. Pintle ?
Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 03, 2021, 06:39:42 PM
Built heavy duty. I like it!! I was thinking of the pivot point on your walking beam. Probably will work for quite awhile but being able to get some grease in there would help. Some round stock with heavy wall stock over the top with some grease fittings taped in could have been done but that would have taken a little more time
The pivot point is a greasable bolt that is drilled down the center to get grease to the center of the pivot tube. Is that what you were referencing? I'm sure it won't last forever, but I'm hoping the grease will give it a chance.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210225_191907442~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1614823861)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210225_184229458.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1614823801)
Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 03, 2021, 06:45:59 PM
What are you going to do on a hitch. Pintle ?
Well, I don't think it will be a pintle since I want to be able to haul it on the drawbar. So either just a hay trailer style with a pin or I'll do a 2 5/16" ball and throw a ball on the drawbar.
I suggest you build the neck with a receiver or plate to swap connection styles for different tow unit options in the future. Ive had 3 different hitch combinations on mine.
No 4 actually.
Quote from: mike_belben on March 03, 2021, 10:56:00 PM
I suggest you build the neck with a receiver or plate to swap connection styles for different tow unit options in the future. Ive had 3 different hitch combinations on mine.
No 4 actually.
That's a good idea. I'll have to look around at some other trailers for options. I still would like to have the tongue pivot so it doesn't flip the tractor if the trailer rolls. Maybe a piece of pipe welded to the bottom of the square tube, with a solid piece of round bar that slides into it. Then I can weld the hitch mounting plate onto that round bar.
You could use a grader ball, or uniball. I made a grader ball from a 2-5/16 hitch that went into a big steel cup with brass races and a cap plate once. But it was a pretty substantial machining task.
Put those search terms in google with ruffstuff or pirate4x4 and youll see offroad builds. I mean road grader btw.
Military pintles have the rotator in them but theyre spendy whenever i see one. You could clone it though.
A steering knuckle and hub have the right motion if you grafted one to a 3pt hitch. Plus an driveshaft can pass through it for powered trailer or pto pump.
You should seriously consider either getting flush zerks or put a plug in the pivot after you grease it so you don't break those off.
Bet you don't need to ask how I know this :)
for the pivoting hitch you could use a rear axle shaft. gives you a nice flat face with bolts to put whatever connection point you need on it. slide it through a tube and weld stops on it so it can't pull out.
Quote from: Crusarius on March 04, 2021, 05:33:15 PM
You should seriously consider either getting flush zerks or put a plug in the pivot after you grease it so you don't break those off.
Bet you don't need to ask how I know this :)
Good point, I hadn't thought of that. These zerks are pressed on, but I can weld a short piece of pipe around them to protect them.
Quote from: Crusarius on March 04, 2021, 05:34:31 PM
for the pivoting hitch you could use a rear axle shaft. gives you a nice flat face with bolts to put whatever connection point you need on it. slide it through a tube and weld stops on it so it can't pull out.
Good thought, I'll have to see what I can find laying around
the pipe is a good idea. weld a threaded piece of pipe on and then put a cap over it. otherwise I bet you will fold it over on top of the zerk.
My forestry trailer has a 3"x3" x2" solid block with a 1" hole thru it welded to the end of the pole. The hay type hitch has a 1" bolt thru the end and welded that goes thru the steel block and a nut screwed on to the block. The pole has a hole torched opening for the nut to go up into the pole to hold it all together. There's a zerk on the side to grease the bolt. On the grease fitting for the axle shaft mine is straight out and get plugged with dirt once in a while.
What about a large threaded bolt or all thread with double nuts welded to the trailer tongue and a flat plate on the outer end of the bolt that could have different types of hitches bolted to the plate. in the late 1990's I rebuilt my motorcycle tow trailer like that but used a Heim joint, the threads swiveled in the nuts and so did the ball in the joint, worked great, went to Sturgis and back from C.G. Oregon.
Curt 48530
Several different ways to do it
Flat plate with big bolt. Heavy wall pipe with heavy pipe on inside with plate welded on end to have various hitches. On the outside pipe grease fittings. Then welded to your square tubing trailer tongue that's adjustable in length with slightly smaller diameter square tubing that is pinned to adjust for various length or easier hooking up 😂
Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 05, 2021, 02:30:43 PM
Flat plate with big bolt. Heavy wall pipe with heavy pipe on inside with plate welded on end to have various hitches. On the outside pipe grease fittings. Then welded to your square tubing trailer tongue that's adjustable in length with slightly smaller diameter square tubing that is pinned to adjust for various length or easier hooking up 😂
Yeah, lots of options. Hoping to make due from my scrap pile, but it's running low. Looks like I'll have to spend some money on it.
Ooh i HATE that.
Think of it this way. You really saved a bunch of money already and you have something built pretty nice so don't cut any corners
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Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 06, 2021, 03:28:53 AM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/9F4A2772-BB1C-43E9-8132-63BACA0F62F0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1615019143)
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That's a good setup. I hadn't seen a pivot built into the tractor/vehicle end
Nice.
Have you got a part number for that rotator backing plate? I cant quite make it out.
Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 06, 2021, 03:28:53 AM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/F3744601-7AA8-40CF-B379-9F7D8C6B2FC1.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1615019140)
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That looks a lot like the pivoting pintle hitch on my 1951 M37 Korean War pickup
Quote from: mjeselskis on March 03, 2021, 09:31:35 PM
Well, I don't think it will be a pintle since I want to be able to haul it on the drawbar. So either just a hay trailer style with a pin or I'll do a 2 5/16" ball and throw a ball on the drawbar.
There is a problem with a pin style hitch if you are driving over rough terrain, through ditches, etc: It does not allow much up and down flex. My forwarding trailer came with a pivoting pin hitch, so left and right movement was fine (around the pin), and twist was OK due to the pivoting hitch. Up and down flex was a problem, so I added an gizmo between the trailer and the tractor. By twisting the trailer's pin hitch 90˚, so the pin is oriented sideways, it allows for and up & down pivot. The insert has another hole at 90˚ to the first, which connects to the tractor's drawbar, allowing for the normal left/right flex.
Unlike with the normal pin hitch set-up, the pins here are sized to just fit in the holes. (I use a bushing in the tractor draw-bar hole to get a good fit, since it's larger than some of my other tow vehicles.)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Clevis_mod_close-up.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1615078635)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Clevis_hitch_mod_in_use.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1615078714)
These pictures are not of mine. They are from the design I copied from a guy who shared the idea with me on a tractor forum. It's been working out well so far.
Quote from: John Mc on March 06, 2021, 07:12:56 PM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 06, 2021, 03:28:53 AM
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(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/58B12E07-2B92-43D9-9DFF-E207D69458A4.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1615019124)
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That looks a lot like the pivoting pintle hitch on my 1951 M37 Korean War pickup
Just seen everything here that's exactly what it is. I was in the shop and thought I would give you a few ideas to fabricate
Quote from: John Mc on March 06, 2021, 08:08:28 PM
Quote from: mjeselskis on March 03, 2021, 09:31:35 PM
Well, I don't think it will be a pintle since I want to be able to haul it on the drawbar. So either just a hay trailer style with a pin or I'll do a 2 5/16" ball and throw a ball on the drawbar.
There is a problem with a pin style hitch if you are driving over rough terrain, through ditches, etc: It does not allow much up and down flex. My forwarding trailer came with a pivoting pin hitch, so left and right movement was fine (around the pin), and twist was OK due to the pivoting hitch. Up and down flex was a problem, so I added an gizmo between the trailer and the tractor. By twisting the trailer's pin hitch 90˚, so the pin is oriented sideways, it allows for and up & down pivot. The insert has another hole at 90˚ to the first, which connects to the tractor's drawbar, allowing for the normal left/right flex.
Unlike with the normal pin hitch set-up, the pins here are sized to just fit in the holes. (I use a bushing in the tractor draw-bar hole to get a good fit, since it's larger than some of my other tow vehicles.)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Clevis_mod_close-up.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1615078635)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Clevis_hitch_mod_in_use.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1615078714)
These pictures are not of mine. They are from the design I copied from a guy who shared the idea with me on a tractor forum. It's been working out well so far.
Looks nice but I would definitely do a heavy duty pintle for that reason. That's why the use them on military vehicles and heavy duty trailers
My M101A trailer has the reverse of what Walnut Beast showed and John has on his truck. Basically the same thing as Curt lunette eye shown earlier. Pintle ring or lunette eye whatever they are called, has threaded shaft with castle nut and cotter pin. Maybe it is rusted together? Doesn't pivot but probably should. That thing has been seriously twisted up behind rock crawler and tractor with the pintle hitch even without the eye pivoting.
John, I know not your pictures, but if I put those hooks in like that, brush would send them things a flying.
I use that type to keep my 3 pt winch on the arms, but there is some metal around each one. I can just about get them in there and snapped in place.
Quote from: mudfarmer on March 06, 2021, 09:22:23 PM
My M101A trailer has the reverse of what Walnut Beast showed and John has on his truck. Basically the same thing as Curt lunette eye shown earlier. Pintle ring or lunette eye whatever they are called, has threaded shaft with castle nut and cotter pin. Maybe it is rusted together? Doesn't pivot but probably should. That thing has been seriously twisted up behind rock crawler and tractor with the pintle hitch even without the eye pivoting.
I'm not for sure either but I had one of those trailers and it was solid also. Nice trailer
Quote from: thecfarm on March 06, 2021, 09:32:33 PM
John, I know not your pictures, but if I put those hooks in like that, brush would send them things a flying.
Safety wiring the loops to the shanks works great.
Quote from: thecfarm on March 06, 2021, 09:32:33 PM
John, I know not your pictures, but if I put those hooks in like that, brush would send them things a flying.
I use that type to keep my 3 pt winch on the arms, but there is some metal around each one. I can just about get them in there and snapped in place.
I haven't had a problem with them yet. I've been using the same style clips on the pins in my lower 3 pt hitch arms, and those have been in there for 20 years now without a problem. (In fact, I've wondered what is different about my set up, since I've heard others have had that issue.)
If I know I'm going to be running in a brushy area, I'll put the pin on the tractor side in from the bottom up, so the clip rides on top. However, most of the time I don't bother, since it's easier to drop it in from above.
I suppose I could safety wire or zip-tie the loops to the shank as Mike suggests. I have not tried that yet.
Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 06, 2021, 09:01:45 PM
Quote from: John Mc on March 06, 2021, 08:08:28 PM
Quote from: mjeselskis on March 03, 2021, 09:31:35 PM
Well, I don't think it will be a pintle since I want to be able to haul it on the drawbar. So either just a hay trailer style with a pin or I'll do a 2 5/16" ball and throw a ball on the drawbar.
There is a problem with a pin style hitch if you are driving over rough terrain, through ditches, etc: It does not allow much up and down flex. My forwarding trailer came with a pivoting pin hitch, so left and right movement was fine (around the pin), and twist was OK due to the pivoting hitch. Up and down flex was a problem, so I added an gizmo between the trailer and the tractor. By twisting the trailer's pin hitch 90˚, so the pin is oriented sideways, it allows for and up & down pivot. The insert has another hole at 90˚ to the first, which connects to the tractor's drawbar, allowing for the normal left/right flex.
Unlike with the normal pin hitch set-up, the pins here are sized to just fit in the holes. (I use a bushing in the tractor draw-bar hole to get a good fit, since it's larger than some of my other tow vehicles.)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Clevis_mod_close-up.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1615078635)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Clevis_hitch_mod_in_use.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1615078714)
These pictures are not of mine. They are from the design I copied from a guy who shared the idea with me on a tractor forum. It's been working out well so far.
Looks nice but I would definitely do a heavy duty pintle for that reason. That's why the use them on military vehicles and heavy duty trailers
The problem is that the only vehicle I have with a pintle hitch is my old '51 M37 pickup. That is one of 4 vehicles which tows the trailer (and I've already added a receiver hitch to that truck - while keeping the pintle hitch as well). All of my other trailers are either ball hitches or pin hitches. I wanted this trailer to be towable by any of them and by any other vehicle I may end up using, including friends' tractors. The pin hitch will work with anything with a draw bar, and it just requires putting in insert in a receiver hitch without a ball on it.
Quote from: mudfarmer on March 06, 2021, 09:22:23 PM
My M101A trailer has the reverse of what Walnut Beast showed and John has on his truck. Basically the same thing as Curt lunette eye shown earlier. Pintle ring or lunette eye whatever they are called, has threaded shaft with castle nut and cotter pin. Maybe it is rusted together? Doesn't pivot but probably should. That thing has been seriously twisted up behind rock crawler and tractor with the pintle hitch even without the eye pivoting.
What's on the trailer is called a lunette ring. The Pintle hitch is the part on the tow vehicle. The M37 and other old military trucks had a pivoting pintle hitch, so it was not necessary for the lunette ring to pivot also.
I decided to go with the pintle hitch and just bought the Curt 48530 3" swivel lunette that Mike shared earlier. I'll mount it to a plate that will accept other hitch styles if I want to switch in the future.
I also bent up some uprights out of some of the tubing that came with this thing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210307_120310148.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1615136614)
It's getting closer to being useable. I still need to pick up some 15" tires, but finding used 15" truck tires is no easy task these days.
try Facebook marketplace
I have about 20 of them laying around.
Quote from: Crusarius on March 07, 2021, 08:56:19 PM
I have about 20 of them laying around.
If only you were closer. I've been looking in FB marketplace and CL, but I think the main issue is that there aren't many trucks on the road that still use 15" tires. I'll try running a wanted ad to see what I can find.
The other option is the set of 4 bobcat tires and rims that I have set aside for this, but I still need to make some adapters to bolt them on to these hubs.
Most woods jeeps run a 31 to 35" mud tire on 15" rim. Id use cj, xj and yj in your searches. Or check the classifieds of 4wd forums. NEOW and deepwoods extreme have a lot of members in your area.
Quote from: mjeselskis on March 07, 2021, 12:07:06 PMI still need to pick up some 15" tires, but finding used 15" truck tires is no easy task these days.
Just curious what kind of load rating you are looking for. How much do yo think your loaded trailer will weigh?
Quote from: John Mc on March 08, 2021, 10:26:48 AM
Quote from: mjeselskis on March 07, 2021, 12:07:06 PMI still need to pick up some 15" tires, but finding used 15" truck tires is no easy task these days.
Just curious what kind of load rating you are looking for. How much do yo think your loaded trailer will weigh?
Empty weight is probably around 1000lbs. I doubt it will see over 6,000lbs loaded, but I did the tongue weight calcs based on an overload of 10,000lbs. I'm shooting for some 10 ply tires that should be rated around 2,500lb load rating.
@mjeselskis (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=14804) , I have five 15" tires from a Jeep that I've had on Craigslist. No rims. Not sure if they are Passenger or Light Truck. I can check if you're interested.
235/85/16 is a much higher load rating and prevalent range E truck tire. A honda accord or toyota camry 5 lug 16" rim with the center bored out (5 on 114) fits 5 lug trailer (5 on 4.5) same as cherokee, ford ranger, f150 etc so those 16" black steelie rims will work too. The fwd car rims have a lot of offset and can be flipped for wide mode or narrow track. I just hit the lug holes with a countersink to mount them backward so they still center well. Boring the centers makes them lugcentric.. No big deal imo.
My junkbuilt forwarding trailer takes a cord of hardwood no problem on 2 wheels. 33x13.5x15 swampers on a 3500lb trailer axle
Quote from: mike_belben on March 08, 2021, 01:26:16 PM
235/85/16 is a much higher load rating and prevalent range E truck tire. A honda accord or toyota camry 5 lug 16" rim with the center bored out (5 on 114) fits 5 lug trailer (5 on 4.5) same as cherokee, ford ranger, f150 etc so those 16" black steelie rims will work too. The fwd car rims have a lot of offset and can be flipped for wide mode or narrow track. I just hit the lug holes with a countersink to mount them backward so they still center well. Boring the centers makes them lugcentric.. No big deal imo.
My junkbuilt forwarding trailer takes a cord of hardwood no problem on 2 wheels. 33x13.5x15 swampers on a 3500lb trailer axle
Good info on the Honda wheels. I agree that 235/85/16 is much more prevalent. If Cherokee and ranger wheels fit, I might be able to find a worn set of stock wheels from someone upgrading. Right now, I was just trying to use the 15's that came with it to save some time. If the tires on these were any good, I'd just run them for now but the rubber is so hard and dry rotted, they don't like to seal to the rim
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Quote from: PoginyHill on March 08, 2021, 11:43:13 AM
@mjeselskis (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=14804) , I have five 15" tires from a Jeep that I've had on Craigslist. No rims. Not sure if they are Passenger or Light Truck. I can check if you're interested.
Thank you. I'll try to find some closer, but I'll let you know if I end up looking at a road trip.
If you can break the beads, DAP weldwood contact cement will seal them right up.
cj = 5 on 5.5 lug pattern
tj, yj, xj = 5 on 4.5
wj = 5 on 5.
Quote from: Crusarius on March 08, 2021, 04:55:45 PM
cj = 5 on 5.5 lug pattern
tj, yj, xj = 5 on 4.5
wj = 5 on 5.
Good to know. I've only had TJ's and YJ's so I figured they were all 5x4.5
MJ also 5 on 4.5.
btw I have this giant useless knowledge section in my brain and its mostly filled with jeep specs :)
basically any jeep from 87-2006 was 5 on 4.5 with the exception of the wj that started in 99 that was 5 on 5
Did I mention I have enough parts in my shed to build a complete jeep? and you guys thought sawdust addiction was bad :)
Don't worry, auto parts store addiction is JUST as bad!
you know its bad when you walk in, go behind the counter, go grab what you want, and take it to the register :)
Not that I have ever done that before. :)
I've only had a few that even want to do that, and when they did, well, let's just say only a small % even came CLOSE to getting the right part. They soon said, umm, will you get me the right part. All that I could do was laugh and get the part. It was a very subdued laugh, but enough to where they laughed as well. I miss talking to SOME of my customers, but not very many.
This is what we are going to transform into a log trailer 😂
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/6984E14B-2456-42DD-93C6-9DD38BF72184.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1615516700)
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Looks like it might be easy to overload it. I might be wrong, but I've pulled my little utility trailer that's a 4x12 platform that I did not think was over loaded, but the 3x4 ton diesel truck that was pulling it said otherwise. Either that, or the guy was trying to make me feel good/bad about heavily loading it like I did. Either way, I'll not be loading as much as I did!
I use a hay wagon trailer just like that with bunk across the front an back. It's had no problem with 6 30 pine logs on. I have a rease hitch on the Tajfun winch that I welded into the back plate to haul the wagon.
The hitch arrived. Let's just say, I don't think it's the weak point on the trailer.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210310_122537570.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1615764870)
It's going through two pieces of 1" steel (one is out of sight inside the tongue) with a heavy lock washer and castle nut on the backside. It swivels, but has enough resistance to not spin freely and lose orientation.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210311_193026438.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1615764858)
It's just about done, just need to throw tires on it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210314_135006686.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1615764943)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210314_134956239.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1615764979)
Looks good!!!
How are you putting the logs on to it?
Quote from: thecfarm on March 14, 2021, 08:28:36 PM
Looks good!!!
How are you putting the logs on to it?
Thanks, a small pulp loader is on the frugal wish list, but for now, I'll drop the trailer and load it with the grapple on the tractor. I may try building a "dead header log lifter" like this one so I can pull a few logs on over the tail with the farmi
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=17613.0
Looks great man. Nice work.
Quote from: mike_belben on March 14, 2021, 09:45:27 PM
Looks great man. Nice work.
Thanks Mike. Appreciate the thoughts along the way.
Absolutely 💪 looks good. I'm glad you listened to Mike on the Pintle 👍
Progress update:
I decided to skip the 15" wheels and truck tires and go straight to the skid steer wheels that I picked up at an auction a few years ago for this reason.
I had 4 wheel adapters cut on the waterjet at a local fab shop out of 1/2" steel. I was wondering if my cad drawing would be accurate, but they came out great.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210322_183042671.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1617055168)
Final product for now until I find a small log loader and/or dump bed.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210329_174153.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1617055633)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210329_161239079_HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1617055404)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210329_161612521.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1617055055)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210329_161247041_HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1617055482)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210329_161643505.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1617054970)
I think the tires outweight the trailer :)
Looks great.
You sure did do a great job on that trailer!!!
Man, this is rock solid beautiful! Nicely done! I think the skidder tires are the best choice anyway. Super duper job, I am truly impressed with how slick this looks. Clean and solid.
Quote from: Crusarius on March 29, 2021, 06:20:20 PM
I think the tires outweight the trailer :)
Looks great.
Haha, they may be overkill, but I won't overload them. Each one is rated at over 5k lbs. Plus, they have much less ground pressure than the skinny tires that were on it
So, until you find a log loader/knuckle boom, you need to improvise.
I see Big John loading the parked trailer with the grapple, then hitching up to the trailer with the logging winch and heading back to the ranch.
Nice work, from the tyres up! 👍👍👍
Quote from: Andries on March 29, 2021, 08:15:08 PM
So, until you find a log loader/knuckle boom, you need to improvise.
I see Big John loading the parked trailer with the grapple, then hitching up to the trailer with the logging winch and heading back to the ranch.
Nice work, from the tyres up! 👍👍👍
6 months later... Finally found time to use the trailer today. I went out to get an 18" dbh Aspen to saw out for trim boards. Overall, the trailer worked great. The walking beam axles proved their value over rocks and stumps.
Some things I learned:
- Turning around in the woods is a challenge.
- Need to throw a strap over the logs. I left the woods with 4 logs and got to the sawmill with 3. One slid off the front going down a hill.
- Definitely need to figure out a crane or loader of some sort. Trying to find room to drop the trailer and load with the grapple isn't practical on most trails. I could drag the logs out to the yard where there is more room, but that defeats the point of the trailer. Trying to keep the logs clean and trails not all dug up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210930_171547101_HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1633049978)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20210930_173327294.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1633050052)
Turning around in the woods is always a challenge even with out a trailer. The loader sticks out in front to much. I do have a few woods road that I can circle around. But I have some that dead end too.
Glad you like it.
Quote from: thecfarm on September 30, 2021, 09:14:58 PM
Turning around in the woods is always a challenge even with out a trailer. The loader sticks out in front to much. I do have a few woods road that I can circle around. But I have some that dead end too.
Glad you like it.
I have some loop trails. Unfortunately, the good trees are always at the narrow end of a dead end trail 😁
I just drove by another "cable jammer" loader this morning. They were very popular before the advent of hydraulic loaders, mostly they were mounted behind the cab of 2 ton trucks but I've seen them mounted on trailers behind ag tractors as well. The only loader is basically a vertical mast, with an adjustable horizontal job boom. A winch operated cable runs out the jib to lift the loads. There were both factory and home made units.
The 2 wheelers turn vastly easier than 4 wheelers, if you mean force wise. Thats why mine is a single axle.
My jammer works pretty well but i think it might be dangerous with a pto winch. Electric winch is slow and has automatic brake so nothing gets too exciting too quickly.
Very nicely done.
I hope to build an almost exact replica of your trailer.
Thanks and cheers