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Author Topic: Old Weinig foursider  (Read 1776 times)

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Offline JoshNZ

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Old Weinig foursider
« on: November 23, 2021, 03:56:45 AM »
Just wondering if anyone knows anything about a Weinig PFA22N foursider, there is one for sale that is not too far away for what looks like a reasonable price. Manufactured in Germany 1975, 7 heads, weighs about 4 tons.

It has been in dry storage for the last 5 years and will need a tidy up, surface rust etc. Seller claims it was running fine before pulled from service.

Seems like a pretty wild thing to be buying for a guy with a home built manual mill but, construction materials are in a shortage here. I got rid of all my black walnut and I've come into another decent stack of logs, I'm thinking this would be a good way to get rid of it.

Is it worth a look?



 

 

Offline Jeff

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2021, 07:01:02 AM »
What does it have for electric motors? Would you need a converter? I recall us putting in a big Robinson merry go round bandsaw resaw made in Europe, and it had to have all sorts of electrical considerations to run.
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Online Don P

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2021, 07:41:49 AM »
I think I'd would want power company supplied 3 phase for something that size. Is the height x width in a range that will be useful later? From the looks I don't see gleaming welds and breaks. It looks like something blew up in the front left head but that is just a dust hood.

We did get an Italian SCMI 5 head machine that was motored for 50 HZ, we run 60. The factory actually caught it, probably a year or so in and remotored it. The tech said it would cause overheating problems, so something to look for although if it has run that long there it must be correct.

You'll need some serious suction.
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Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2021, 02:20:41 PM »
He did mention the current ratings of the 4x three phase motors. I coughed up and got a 3 phase service to my new shed, it will run it.

Providing it's all serviceable, is it a silly idea? If I was going to go down this hole would it be more sensible to buy something newer/lighter. Has the technology changed much in 45 years?

Offline Mooseherder

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2021, 04:22:25 PM »
I would run away from that 4 ton monster and go with smaller that matched my production.  Something you can move out of your way instead of taking up space.  That machine would take serious logistics to move and a big operational footprint inside a building.
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Online Don P

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2021, 05:00:59 PM »
Heavy iron will run long and strong. The footprint of either machine is about the same when you include the work area supporting it. If the price is right I'd rather have the beast.

It's all manual setup rather than computer controls, setups take longer and are only as accurate as you are. I wouldn't have to call a teenager to get that old girl to talk to me  :D.
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Offline Mooseherder

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2021, 05:31:18 PM »
Yeah good point.  My production on a manual mill is minimal and I thought his would be similar.  Come get my Lane to match up to that machine.  :D
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Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2021, 05:56:00 PM »
I have a spindle moulder with power feed and decent thicknesser that I'm about to put a carbide rotor on, I could do the work with those two machines, a bit more effort but minimal footprint and capitol.

A machine like that would go in its own shelter, I'd say. I don't have shed space for it. He's asking 9k NZ, ~6k US. Pretty good for the island we are. Haven't seen this sort of stuff come up here too often

Offline Iwawoodwork

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2021, 08:29:23 PM »
I have never owned or operate3d one but during the 20 years with OR-OSHA I saw and inspected a few and I would say if you have the room and power supply purchase the indestructible beast. several of the older moulder/planers were much older, 1920's or 30's and still running production, hopefully you get the cutter sharpener machines and extra sets of cutters/blades. what a heavy duty production monster.

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2021, 10:48:16 PM »
Rambles, what has gotten me thinking about that "entire footprint" comment is the farm museum where I've been working was donated a very old 3 sided machine, I'd guess turn of the century. The family said they would donate a building for it and would like for it to run. It comes from the generation before the oldest ones I've ever seen, and I have a '27 Vonnegut boat anchor and have run a 1904 single sided planer, instead of OSHA its what we call the Oh Sh..! period of the industrial revolution, hopefully it'll be used for very short runs. I'm a bystander thus far but I suspect they are looking at the footprint of the machine where I'm thinking the footprint of the work area. Stuff like that takes some room.
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Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2021, 11:28:09 PM »
If it's 4m long and you're putting 5m lengths through it, there's 14m at a minimum  8).

I'd have to pull some more kiwifruit out, but I'm gonna do that anyway at some point. Darn things always blocking my shed and lean-to builds

Offline customsawyer

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2021, 06:18:15 AM »
I would research if you have somewhere that you can get the knives for it before you buy it. With most of these machines they will run and produce a great product. They aren't as user friendly as the newer machines but don't cost as much. You will end up with more money in knives and profiles than you have in the machine. After you learn the machine you will figure out ways to make the set up easier and faster.
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Offline metalspinner

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2021, 07:40:32 AM »
Ive shared this video earlier this summer. Not sure if its the same
Model you are looking at. This belongs to member Teenswinger unless he changed his name. Hes a full grown man now. 😄



Hes running this off a generator. 
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2021, 04:11:17 PM »
orright... look it's like this. That machine is a good machine if its in going order and the things are (a) built to last forever and (b) eminently rebuildable. It's also 70's vintage which is actually pretty good: you dodge the early digital stuff for mechanical systems, and dodge the older mechanical systems as well.

Go check you power requirements again, cuz a 7 header pulls a lot of amperage. Having 3 phase and having enough juice to run big bertha there are two different things... wire sizes and transformer sizes etc etc, and you dont want to be installing 9xVFD's to get her to run. ( 7 heads +feed+ blower)

It's way too much machine for a sawmill... but thats ok, better too big than too small and armed with that old doll I could feed in bananas and get out straight wood in a single pass.

Find out if its got a groove bed - it may have. One of them ideas that works well in presurfaced timbers but not so perfect in roughsawn.

Where are the knives? Tooling included or tooling unavailable would be a huge consideration in buying that machine.


Lastly Imma share one of the best bits of advice I've ever received, and you need to think real hard about this before you buy any older machine, shared with me by a guy whos been there when I was starting up: " I've owned all those old Robinsons and Stetsons and antique bits of crap and I'm telling you don't go there. You're better off buying the $100k machine that can be run by a monkey than you are buying the $10k machine that needs a $100k a year man to run it"

If she was within 500 mile of me I'd be looking at it, but also figuring the payments out on a new Fullpower or similar.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2021, 06:12:40 PM »
I'll avoid taking on any staff with the timber side of things. NZ has made it too difficult to employ people to do this sort of work which is a shame, I reckon I have a job to offer already.

So it would just be me. Wouldn't get run all day every day, a day or two session not even once a month I guess. In that regard, I'm not getting much back on the investment so it's only going to make sense if a bargain comes along

Offline teakwood

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2021, 06:43:29 AM »
@JoshNZ  Have you bought the moulder? I would a have jumped all over this gem.

I'm doing sidings and decks with a jointer and planer all by hand, ughhh. that thing would boost up my production at least a 1000%
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Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2021, 04:32:46 PM »
I haven't bought it but haven't decided I won't yet. It's not exactly a machine you wheel out of the corner of your shed to do a wee job on and tuck back away out of sight again. Would require some space, setup and commitment haha.

I figured I would need a diesel generator next to it, whoever mentioned it above was right I don't have the copper pipe to feed it. 9 motors it is, 400V 75A draw total I think I worked out, if you managed to stall all 9 motors. It would cruise at less than that.

I went and got a quote for one of those weinig cubes and profimats new, that's not gonna happen... So a 40kVA generator and this machine actually seem quite reasonable in comparison, but then with what the local timber machinist charges it'd be 30 odd kilometres of boards before it started to pay anything, in comparison. I'm waiting on a call back from the seller about tooling, they're machinists themselves so hopefully he'll have an idea.

My partner and I are talking about taking the next leap in this industry, everything is aligned well for a timber supplier at the moment in NZ. My bigger priority at the moment is to build a new bed for the mill with hydraulics, that's my real bottle neck. Not the speed I can mill at but the 2-3 days I don't want to look at it again for, after one big day on it lol.

I do have a spindle moulder setup with a power feed, have you considered something like that?

Offline teakwood

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2021, 07:57:18 AM »
I went and got a quote for one of those weinig cubes and profimats new, that's not gonna happen


how much? 80k?

I do have a spindle moulder setup with a power feed, have you considered something like that?


I have a single spindle moulder but no infeed (sold the infeed 5 years ago, never used it) but still, for TYG i need to do 2 pases, change knifes and thats after making 6 pases on the jointer and planer just to get a S4S board. It's not that i have a huge production operation but sales have picked up and with a almost endless supply of my own teakwood i'm certain that in the future production has to be quicker. i even see a sale in the US, i could produce a container load of deck boards or whatever the market needs, just haven't found anybody interested in selling the timber up there.

I also work alone, so a huge amount of my time is wasted in moving timber from on area to another, feed them by hand thru the machines, then move the timber again and again,.... a forklift would be a wise investment also
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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2021, 04:21:53 PM »
I went and got a quote for one of those weinig cubes and profimats new, that's not gonna happen


how much? 80k?

I do have a spindle moulder setup with a power feed, have you considered something like that?


I have a single spindle moulder but no infeed (sold the infeed 5 years ago, never used it) but still, for TYG i need to do 2 pases, change knifes and thats after making 6 pases on the jointer and planer just to get a S4S board. It's not that i have a huge production operation but sales have picked up and with a almost endless supply of my own teakwood i'm certain that in the future production has to be quicker. i even see a sale in the US, i could produce a container load of deck boards or whatever the market needs, just haven't found anybody interested in selling the timber up there.

I also work alone, so a huge amount of my time is wasted in moving timber from on area to another, feed them by hand thru the machines, then move the timber again and again,.... a forklift would be a wise investment also
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Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Old Weinig foursider
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2021, 04:50:32 PM »
Try $177k, that was for the cube. The profimat was more again. Salesman seemed to think the cube wouldn't take moulding knives, square edges only.

That's NZ dollars, $119k US. Everything here is a bit silly at the moment though, some of the freight costs for things are laughable.

Yep I hear ya teak, if you're getting into selling material products rather than raw timber you def want something to speed things up. I'm solo as well and want it to stay that way.


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