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Author Topic: couple questions  (Read 5165 times)

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Offline two saw

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couple questions
« on: December 18, 2006, 06:55:42 PM »
I would like to know what exactly the species of pine is that I have on my property. I have read some on the tree species and still not sure I can identify it.  :P  I would guess it is some sort of yellow pine, but am unsure. trees are skinny, tall, and straight. Some might 14" - 16" at the base. I mainly want to know if they could be used for beams and floor joists under my mill. What size should the main beams be under the mill if I would use this species of pine. Floor joists I will full cut to 2"X8" or do you think they should be 10's. Will space joists on 12" centers. I have some Oak on the ground as well but it is not very big. 10"-12" at the base at best. When ya'll speak of "long leaf" pine I assume you are referring to the needles?
What is the best way to identify the species? I read something about needle count?
Sorry if I sound ignorant of the tree species I am just learning. ??? ???

Ok, 2nd question is, Who makes a small loader like you see on the Blue Ox trailer and other small log trailers? I would like to find one (used) to mount on the Single axle Ford 9000 I have. Several people local have been cutting trees off their lawns and I have seen some really nice big maples get sawed up into little pieces. If I had a loader I would stop and ask them for the log and pick it up and run off with it. 8)
As always, Thanks in advance.
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Offline Kelvin

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2006, 07:39:15 PM »
Don't know about tree species, but i do know about loaders a bit.  I found that by going to the local state vehicle auction i found a ford 800 diesel crane truck for $3200 with 66k miles, 1990.  It will lift 8k lbs and has a hydraulic winch that will grab logs from a long ways off.  its a dump truck as well so unloading is easy.  the moral of my story is that finding a good used grapple loader is hard to do and would probably cost more than some old crane truck from the state.  Its a turn key operation.  Or find a crane boom off from another wrecked vehicle.  For loading small loads they are fine, and much more available.
Good luck,
KP

Offline DanG

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2006, 10:58:47 PM »
Two saw, I don't think Longleaf ranges that far north, but I ain't sure.  They're easy to recognize, as the needles will be about a foot long and the cones are huge.  They're most likely Loblolly, which does occur up there.  They have much shorter needles, and quite small cones.  Can't remember the needle count.  If they are tall and skinny, it means they grew in a close environment, and should have fairly tight grain, especially in your cooler climate.  I'll bet they will make fine beams for your mill.

Mr. Hootie has an old loader laying in the bushes.  It has been there for a long time, and has no engine anymore.  I have no idea what he might want for it, but I'll check if you like.
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Offline WDH

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2006, 11:59:50 PM »
Two Saw,

If what you have is a yellow pine, it might be Pitch Pine, Pinus rigida.  There should be 3 needles to the bundle and the cones will be egg shaped, about the size of tennis balls, and the cones will be mostly closed shut.  They do not typically open up unless it is really hot or there is a fire.  That is an adaptation of this species so it can colonize newly burned areas (in the old days fires used to burn the woods before we were so keen to put them all out as soon as they start). 

It might also be Red Pine, Pinus resinosa, but if that is the case, the needles will be in bundles of 2, and the cones will be open (versus closed tight as in pitch pine).  Can you post a pic of a sample with cones?
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Offline two saw

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2006, 12:43:15 AM »
WDH, I will go out and gather a couple cones and needle bunches and post a few pics.
Thanks.
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2006, 05:52:42 AM »
You might even be in the range of Virginia pine.  That used to grow on abandoned fields in this area, but I haven't seen any for a long time.  There was quite a bit down around the Hagerstown area.
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Offline Ironwood

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2006, 06:53:22 AM »
For a low dollar solution you can't beat the FDH trailer solution. It would lift them fast and cheap.  You could increase the scale to get it onto a truck, you may just need a roller across the back. Kind of like the old style scrap container trucks which had a wishbone style weldment assembly on each side (with bracing across to the opposite side) then a big winch to lift. It worked for HEAVY scrap containers it should work for monster logs as well. If you had the means, it could even be removeable via a jib crane @ home or tractor w/ loader or forklift.

                   Just a vote for versatility and low dollars, Reid

There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Offline WDH

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2006, 09:05:48 AM »
Good add Ron.  It could very well be virginia pine.  If so, the needles will be in 2's.
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Offline Stephen1

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2006, 09:38:16 AM »
I believe if you do a search here, someone went to a great deal of trouble to make a posting to help identify trees. It has photo's and descriptions of all sorts of trees.
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Offline DR_Buck

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2006, 12:54:00 PM »
Here's a good link to Tree ID's.

Tree ID

I agree with Ron also,  might be Virginia Pine.   I have both Loblolly and Virginia Pine here at my place in Northern VA.
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Offline two saw

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Ok I got pics of the pine/cone
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2006, 12:35:52 PM »
I finally got to go take a couple pictures of the tress and cones/needles.
From the web site I was given it looks like the species I have is either loblolly or virginia pine.
What do you all think?


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Offline Tom

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Re: Ok I got pics of the pine/cone
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2006, 12:46:36 PM »
With two short needles per fascicle it more favors Virginia pine than Loblolly, according to the site I am reading.
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Offline two saw

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Re: Ok I got pics of the pine/cone
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2006, 12:48:25 PM »
yeah you are right Tom. I just went back to check and it only has the two needles and it has the little spikes on the ends of the cone.
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Offline WDH

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2006, 07:13:23 PM »
Definitely not loblolly, definitely not pitch.  Looks like virginia pine.  If you still have the cone, look inside the cone scales and you will see where the seed was and you will see the impressions of the seed wings on the top of the cone scale.  If it is virginia, these impressions of the seed wings will have a significant color contrast from the cone scale.  In fact, the color on the inside of the cone scale where the seed wings were is almost purple.  The color contrast between the area where the wings were and the surrounding area is very significant, and this is a good way to distinguish virginia pine cones from other species.
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Offline jpad_mi

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2006, 07:28:11 PM »
I have heard that the pines with 2 or 3 needles per bunch generally have harder and stronger wood than those with 5 per. It is true for the pines we typically have in Michigan ; Jack pine and Red pine (both with 2 needles per) are harder than White pine (5 per).  I'm not sure if this extends to all of the other types of pine you guys are mentioning or not.
Jeff P. in Michigan

Offline WDH

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2006, 08:27:28 PM »
jpad_mi,

There are hard pines and there are soft pines.  That is the terminology, like in hard maple and soft maple.  The hard pines are all 2 and 3 needles to the fascile (bundle) and the soft pines are in 5's.  In the US, the hardest pines are called Southern Yellow Pines, and of these, longleaf is the hardest.  So, in general, I think that you are right.
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2006, 09:18:08 PM »
Considering that white pines and stone pines are the only pines with 5 needles per fascicle, there doesn't leave much room for anything else.  White pine is the only eastern pine with 5 needles. 

All the other species occur on the west coast.
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Offline RSteiner

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2006, 08:43:15 AM »
two saw

Just one word of caution concerning trees cut from around houses, there is a great possibility some one at some time in the past drove nails or screw eyes into lawn trees.  I was removing a large dying elm from a lawn once and found a 3/4" dia. metal pipe just a few inches from the center of the tree.  Pipe does not cut well with a chainsaw.  Seems that the pipe was standing next to the tree or driven into the ground when the tree was young and it grew right around it, after the butt of the tree grew to over 60 inches it was well hiden.

I have milled several logs that came from around houses and lag bolts and screw eyes form dog runs and clothes lines as well as nails and fencing from days gone by.

Randy
Randy

Offline two saw

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2006, 12:14:33 PM »
Thanks for the heads up Randy. I do keep that in mind and I really need to fin a metal detector of some type so I can find it before my saw does. A fellow just yesterday that I have known for a long time but am not really what you would call friends with asked me if I would be interested in sawing a big white oak that his brother had cut in his yard. I said sure and told him I would charge $30.00 an hour and he could drop it oof anytime and tell me what he wants out of it. I also told him that if i hit any metal It would be an additional $60.00 to retip both saws. That didn't seem to bother him but I figure it will be his brother paying the bill.  :D He says the log is about 30" at the base and around 35' in length. I told him I could only saw 20'. He says his brother wants 12'  lumber anyway.
He asked if I could come get it because his little tractor will not pick up even the 12' log. I would hae to load the forklift and drag it and a trailer out the road and into a development just to load 3 - 4 logs. and load everything back up and go home and unload it all again.
   That is why I would like to find a small knuckleboom like on the small logging trailers. If I were to mount it on the rear of the truck I could load a trailer and the truck at the same time without unhooking the trailer.
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Offline DanG

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Re: couple questions
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2006, 11:57:32 PM »
Two saw, I'd be the last one to discourage you from getting a hydraulic loader of some sort.  That would be a great thing to have.  But(you knew that "but" was coming , didn't you? ;D ) there are other ways to load that log onto your trailer.  You can use your truck, or another vehicle to parbuckle the logs up some makeshift ramps, and it is surprisingly easy to do, if you have the room.  Do a Forum search on parbuckling and you will get some ideas.  Anywhere you see a winch involved, you can substitute a car, a truck, a golf cart, a horse, a mule, or a pair of high school linebackers.  A snatch block will easily change the direction of the pull, so the space thing isn't critical. ;) :)
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