Forgive me if this has been covered before.
For the ones of you still dabbling in woodworking, did you ever take classes in it, and was it in shop class in high school or somewhere else?
As I said in the typing thread, I took half a year of woodworking in my senior year because I had to take an elective. The first half was typing, the second half woodworking.
I was so good at woodworking, or maybe it was just some other lazy students in the same class, two of my projects were stolen when they were almost finished. The teacher didn't know if I was lying or not, so took off points when I turned'em in late since I had to do'em over.
Wish I'd discovered woodworking earlier in high school. Only took the one 1/2 semester class at the end.
I'm an avid woodworker, but am totally self taught. I used to glean stuff off da woodworking shows on TV, but now pretty much get my information from books.
Must admit I'm pretty good with my woodworking skills, :) I won't mention my typin'. :-[
We had woodworking in Jr. Hi, but it carried a stigma. It was the place were they put students who didn't do too well or were problems. I wanted to take it too but it wasn't a subject that the school would talk to most of us about.
We didn't have it in Hi school.
The high schools in this county used to have a really good wood working program. One day, about 5 years ago, thee were budget talks on the school board and, all of a sudden, the wood working shops were shut down, equipment removed and it is no longer offered. The school system also had a great program for mechanic, welding, masonry, fishing and a bunch of other "real job" type educational opportunities. There were even entire schools dedicated to them. Unfortunately, a student who attended one of these schools, carried a stigma as well. It seems that the people we hire to run the school system think that students who are interested in Law, medicine and college are the only true students worth teaching. Now these "skill" centers have been trimmed down to almost nothing and to be a student in one, you have to be a discipline problem or considered "stupid" or unworthy of further education.
Something is backward here. The elite society the educational system is trying to create can't wipe its A**.
Most high schools and even junior highs in the ancient past had excellent industrial arts programs. Plenty of funding for high quality machines. I took two years of wood shop, one year of metal working, and a year of mechanical drawing in high school. We started pretty young than and most kids had some wood shop even in grammar school.
Most of the schools around here today have little if any industrial arts. They say liability issue, not enough money, and no interest. :( :o >:(
There is definitely still interest as I have wood and metal shop out in my shed for a couple of local kids. Unfortunately I don't have a budget for state of the art machines.
Our high school had a woodshop but, as Tom mentioned, it was for the "special" students who didn't fit else where. No "normal" students took the class for fear of being labeled.
When my interest in woodworking kicked in, I took evening classes offered by the Continuing Ed. department of the local school district in the town where I was living at the time. You could take the class as many times as you wanted. After you took the first class and the instructor felt you knew what you were doing, you were on your own for subsequent classes. It was a great way to have a shop full of equipment when you're just starting out.
AMEN, Tom. This kind of thinking and action by boards and administrators is a travesty to our education process. Many of these folks believe everyone is headed to ivy covered wall and will emerg as tech minded or cubical drone of some sort. Wshat a jok in thinking and action.
Now that I am off the slippery soapbox:
I had three years of woodshop in highschool. Prior to that we were required to take an entire year of drafting if we wanted to be in the woodshop classes. There were no classed around mechanics or metals at that time.
The junior high at which I tought had one of the finest furnished woods and metal shops in the state. The board and administrators believed that the students would be better prepared for "the world" if they dismantled tht shope area and replaced it with a computer tech classroom and a weight training room, both fully equiped. The fine shop equipment was doled out to a select few, some administrators and their friends, to never be seen again in a public setting.
I took woodshop in highschool for 2 years, In are school it was tough to get into. Everyone wanted it.
After school I drifted away from it and just started back in it 4 years ago Most of what I learned in school was long forgotten and retraining was by trial and eror, some books and a lot of new yankee workshop.
It's a shame the schools think everyone needs to be a DR or Lawyer. But thats ok they will be paying some one like the folks in my family big bucks to fix everything they don't have clue about.
I took industrial arts classes all four years in high school. We learned woodworking, mechanical drawing, metal working, welding, and how to cast. We were for the most part kids who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, the powers above had decided this was best for us. I still believe it was the most important learning experience for me in high school, although I still remember that you pour acid into water and not the other way around.....I think. ;D
I just finished a woodworking class last fall. It was the first time I had ever been exposed to all the cool tools. In high school girls weren't allowed in any of the life skills classes except for HomeEc or Bookkeeping. It seems schools are still in the dark about what kids need to know to survive in this world. I would love a class on plumbing, painting, finishing, etc. Norm has taught me how to wire and some basic electrical, enough to be dangerous. ;D
It was great learned a lot had a real oldtimer for a shop teacher in both grammar school 3 years and high school 4 years. Made a lot of great projects and still have many of them.
I took 4 years of industrial arts in high school. We had wood , metal, welding , electric, auto mechanics , drafting and printing. My shop teacher retired last year. He was a really good teacher.I think the shop will be dismantled soon for lack of a good teacher. We have a very good trade school program around Cincinnati that takes up the slack. My dad was a carpenter and I followed him into the trade as did andther brother. I started working with him in the summer in the 7th grade . Iv'e been a carpenter for about 27 years now. I can build just about anything with a piece of wood or metal. If I ever get time I'll post some pict. of my projects.
The only things taught in schools today, are things that are tested for in order for the schools to get their $$$ from the goverment.
My school only offered wood shop... I think I only took it one year, don't remember if it was offered for more... I remember I took 2nd place in my woodworking project, a cedar chest... Gave it to my mom.. My youngesr daughter has it now... I went on after school and took a job as a pattern rigger, maker in a local foundry... Most enjoyable job I ever had... I left after 10 years :(
I still have a fairly complete woodworking shop and always buying and selling equipment... I never stopped working with wood, just absolutely love it 8)
Up until a few years ago most high schooles and some Jr. high had a very good woodworking program
as well as metal shop. FFA & a couple of high Schools even had a meat proccesing program and one had a slaugher house program where the student killed the animal and went right on untill the meat was prepared and packaged for the home freezer... I don't think any of the schools have these programs now... Just A DanG Shame :'( :'( :'(
Take care, Jerry
In Indiana everyone knows its a lot more important to learn basketball then industrial arts. Our local school wants to build another gym so they can practice 6 or 8 teams at once. Think they could get an auditorium for drama? Nope!
Sounds like Indiana and Kentucky are on the same page >:(
Go figure with what "pro" athletes make nowdays, why would anybody think someone would want to learn how to get their hands dirty working with wood or metal. ::)
Bill,
I didn't know they played basketball in Kentucky. ::)
Bob
Yeah, right Bob.
How far sre you from Louisville, I worked at Mcalpine Locks a couple of years ago.
Bill,
I only live about 40 miles from Louisville. I went to school in Lexington and I have two children going to that " football "school there.
Bob
The little country store right down the road from me, next day after a UK game, don't go in to get a sandwich or gas if yer in a hurry.
Sorry, I strayed on my posts. ::) Must be that time of the year. My son and I did things backward. He got me started in woodworking. When I was in school after the Civil War, they did not have any kind of shop class. Our school now offers a woodworking class and my son took it. I bought "him" several power tools to use and now since he is away at school, I get to use them. ;) Tom and Brad_s, you are correct in there is a stigma about taking shop classes. I guess my son was just a dumb trouble maker in school to be in a class like that. The class must have straighened him out since he will be finishing up this spring with a Mechanical Engineering degree. 8)
Bob the Son taught woodworker
Tha't s great Bob. It's a shame that our educational system doesn't realize the good that those classes do. Just because a fellow has an apptitude to work with his hands doesn't make him bad. It's almost as if there are still "blue bloods" in town that believe in a class system.
I have one that graduated from a class they called Truck and Bus. He's a diesel mechanic with a big bread company now. I have another that graduated from a Fishing school where he learned commercial fishing and another that took masonry classes. One day they will be glad that they know how to do something.
I have a nephew, who is a brain, and is in college.......and is in college ......and is in college ......and is in college ..... and....etc. He wants to be a football broadcaster. Might do it too...... when he finishes college. :)
I'm learning a lot about diesel from my son too. ;D
Both of my sons took woodworking in highschool. Both loved it. My oldest son also dismantled every electronic and electrical appliance in the house, because he seemed fascinated with wiring. He had trouble with 'book learning' because everything to him was physical and hands on. He took welding in the VoTech school when in high school. He went into the service and they trained him in communications. Today he works for Comast Cable as a supervisior with the internet cable installation division. :) My youngest son did well in school, but had no interest in a formal continued education. He went to work for the railroad and they sent him to welding school. They both did great and found their own path.
I believe that if the trend of "you've got to be a doctor to be someone" continues, in the next 20 years, doctor's will be making what plumbers make now, and plumbers will be the highest paid trade in the country! Try finding a cheap plumber!! :D
Joke.
A doctor went to work and found that he had a leak in his plumbing and the reception area was full of water. "Call the plumber" he told his receptionist.
The plumber came and fixed the problem in about 30 minutes, cleaned up the mess and gave the receptionist a bill for $200. She politely asked him to wait while she got a check from the doctor.
The Doctor came flying out of the back of the office, when he saw the bill, shouting. "$200 ! I don't even make that kind of money. "
"Yeah, I know" replied the plumber. "I didn't make that kind of money when I was a doctor either".
..........ba-boom!
i started taking wood working classes at the ripe old age of 10 from my dad. he taught me how to fall,buck,limb,and haul to the mill.In return I did the same for my son lol.
One time way back when I tried to make a entertanment center for Pat. ::) gave up and bought one. :D :D :D
gene the 4 thumbed hillbilly
DANG it bob ya gots me doing it now :D
Tom,
My oldest daughter is one of those " professional" students. ;) She just finished with her third degree. Her last one was BS in engineering. I think she didn't want her little brother to get ahead of her. She has a good job now, but is already talking about going back to school. ::)
People asked me how I could afford to have three kids in college at the same time, since I was a poor dumb farmer. I told them it didn't matter how many if they pay their own way. Their mother raised them right. 8)
I married a lot better than my wife. ;)
Bob--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
::)
I'd call you Bob the smart man.
;)
I took industrial arts called manual training back then, over 50 years ago in Toronto in primary school up to year 8, no Junior Highs back then. I loved it. Got to High School and wasn't allowed, too bright for that stuff :D :D :D :D :D. Once I qualified as a teacher, I took the courses required to train as an industrial Arts teacher, did that for one year and off to the College of Education, again in Toronto to get my ticket as a specialist teacher of tech subjects to "slow learners" A lot of bright kids who were never challenged in primary school and became "discipline problems" as well as the genuin slow learners. My largest class was 9 students in a specialist school opffering a two year terminal course giving saleable skills to these kids. They all got jobs, worked well and were good employees. So much for being slow. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses but generally the education system measures its success by the number of university grads it turns out.
I taught our three sons at home for many years until their hormones got out of hand and they went off to High school starting in the third year. Fifth form in NZ, grade 11 in Canada. The eldest, Alf now works with me on the farm and with the mill, having spent a few years as a pruner and another two as a forestry supervisor on the East coast.
I have met all too many people who cant even change a washer on a tap and who, if the supermarkets all closed down would starve to death. Our daughter graduated as a nurse at 19 but still knows enough to have replaced the clutch in her car on her own.
Oh for an education system that turns out well rounded capable people.
Sorry for the rant but sometimes things just get up this old man's nose.
Ernie
I got started in Middle School (6th grade) and never had a year with out having a woods class since.
I liked woodworking so much I became an Industrial Arts Instructor 8) and have been for the past 10 years.
As an instructor, what some of you have said is very true, the problems come from the bean counters with their spread sheets. Lets see 10-15 students / teacher vrs the english teacher with 20 /teacher and guess who gets the axe ;)
Yep, I just got RIF'ed Reduced In Force they removed the Industrial Arts postiton from our high school. Oh well, I just might buy a mill and make my own wood.
Well there went my lunch bell, back to the students.
Some of the best education begins at home at an early age. Kids beg to help. I always found something for them to do. When they can walk they can fetch tools, hold a nail. Plus all the time telling them they're good help and explaining what you are doing and why. When my youngest was about 3 he was hammering nails into the dirt. What's a pound of nails cost? Then just let him nail boards. Tough to find a board around a sawmill :D :D :D. Then the boards could disappear into the wood stove. We burned pallets too, so we had nails anyway in the ashes. He went on to build tree houses, even a double decker, then on to tinkering, and in high school he is the technical director for the AV department. Is great in the woods, around the mill. And other people are always calling him to help out. He is never short on money either. He can outwork and outthink anyone at the mill, and uses the loaders with more finesse than most construction workers. He won't be in academics, but he says there is a diesel school in Illinois where he plans to go.
Point them to the world, give them a good work ethic and watch out.
Ernie, I've met a lot of people like the ones you are talking about . :D 8)
Quote from: Roxie on March 14, 2005, 09:29:50 AM
I believe that if the trend of "you've got to be a doctor to be someone" continues, in the next 20 years, doctor's will be making what plumbers make now, and plumbers will be the highest paid trade in the country! Try finding a cheap plumber!! :D
Hmmm,
A topic Andrew and I often discuss...
Even as recently as when I went to school ;) We had woodworking. Granted I had to fight for it and threaten the school with an equal oportunity claim... Coz all they were offerring was cooking and typing.. Oh joy...
They USED to have Tech Colleges, where, if you weren't particularly humanities-orientated, you could go and learn wood working, metal working, mechanics, and a little tech drawing, in addition to math, and some science subjects. English was 'real english' with emphasis on the ability to read and basic grammar and writing skills, no shakespeare to be found.
Now, they are all High Schools, I have only seen one in ages which still has a metalwork shop. They expect the kids to finish year 12, THEN choose a career, and they are all told that Uni is the way to go.
The question used to be: What do you want to be when you grow up?
Now it's: What are you going to study at Uni?
I'm still not quite sure why we push the more manually skilled children to go through years 11 and 12, failing and dragging their feet through, only to feel useless, when they could be excelling at a career, whether that's plumbing or carpentry, or working in a sawmill.
Now, I'm not saying these kids are dumb, far from it, but they are differrently abled. (I'd love to watch some Doctors or Lawyers trying to weild a chisel...)
About 10 years ago, the government here amalgamated the Tech Colleges with the Uni's and called them Universities of Technology. Talk about semantics... It was seen as 'inferior' to be at a Tech college.
I remember a few years ago when the media were showing "Uni Rates" showing how disgraceful it was that 'only' 80% of our kids were going into uni.
Then a few weeks ago, our Prime Minister came out and said that there were not enough kids entering trades and that there'd have to be something done where kids were encouraged to enter trades... WELL D'UH!!!
Unless something's done, and SOON, They'll be talking about a whole differrent Trade Deficit in years to come.
<end rant>
asy :D