Joining slabs

[Larry]

For your countertops my plan of attack would be to pick 3 boards that will give you the required 30" width.  No board should be over 12" wide so you can plane and joint.  Once you have 3 boards selected face joint all three than run the opposite face through your planer.  Next step is edge joint all three.  Ready to glue them together using one of the three methods I described for alignment.

There is a kicker.  I went back and took a close look at the Grizzly jointer your looking at.  It is really a light weight bench top machine with a small motor.  It is going to be very difficult to joint the long and heavy boards needed for the countertop.  I would closely check the reviews or better yet try to find somebody that has one to talk to.

I think Oth is right about the width.  The extra width also makes it harder to reach stuff in the upper cabinets.  Wide countertops work best with a island.

Today's work.  A few years ago WDH and Yellowhammer highly recommended the Harbor Freight hydraulic rolling table so I bought one.  Pulled the clamps off my slab and put them on the table.  Rolled table with clamps over to the clamp rack.  Yellowhammer'ism is "Take steps to save steps" and the table saved a bunch of steps plus time.

[Old Greenhorn]

I have always thought of cabinet and furniture standards as 'a good starting point' But the whole idea of 'custom built' is to include the humans it is designed to work for. I think 30" is a nice size for a counter depth and would likely be my choice too. There is always that stuff (in our house) that lives against the backsplash and you infrequently need,

But getting to your concerns about your split ends, etc. I learned, when I was just thinking about maybe making something from my slabs from Tule Peak Timber something which I have done without thinking from the first project all the way up to now and I do EVERY time. It wasn't until I was reading along on this thread that I got it from Rob, but it has served me very well.
Before I ever even start making cuts on my slabs or lumber to make a top  or whatever I go over the WHOLE piece of wood and fill every crack cranny, split, loose (or even maybe questionable) knot or defect I can find with epoxy. Many times it takes more than one pass because overnight that epoxy will soak down into the voids you can't see, but this is what you want. It take time, days and weeks sometimes of patient refilling until everything is filled and stable. Then I rough sand all the junk off and plane it if I can fit it, or sand it if I can't, or run it through the slabmizer. I mean I cover every dent, crack, and teeny tiny void. This gives me 'full wood' that I can then machine and make what I want. Often I have to tape one side to prevent through leakage of the epoxy, then flip and do the other side. It can be painstaking at times. BUT, when you are done and make a top, or whatever, you have clean, flat, pretty wood. Those epoxy fills are largely invisible, but the big ones add a bunch of character to the final project. It also guarantees that you can't get any dirt or moisture settling into the wood, which is a killer in the long term, especially in a kitchen.

Prepping the wood before you start cutting and joining is paramount for me. Epoxy can be your best friend in the right places.

[doc henderson]

So, a few talented folks could accentuate those end splits.  @tule peak timber comes to mind.  one on the top looks almost split the whole length and could be split through and then kerfed with a router and glued back together.  any other woodworkers on the island.  might be able to trade out some work in exchange for flattening and planning.  Yes, your wife definitely appears to have head lice.  You can do some epoxy fill on the cracks, if that floats your boat.  the slabs do look niche and flat.  that is the biggest hurdle to not lose a bunch of thickness.  you could get a track saw and cut nice straight edges with a fine blade.  I have a hand electric planer.  a Makita and it can tidy up a saw kerf.  there are plenty of folks doing the face with a belt sander.  but it would be a lot of work, and harder to get a nice flat tabletop or any other top.  my buddy just bought a used woodpecker brand slab flattening jig.  I have the homemade one you see with the stump table.  you could build it.  It would be ok for a few projects, but not for tons of production.  Looks like you are having fun, and getting stuff done.

[doc henderson]

tell us a bit more about your island.  us land lubbers would like to know.

[Maximus]

For your countertops my plan of attack would be to pick 3 boards that will give you the required 30" width.  No board should be over 12" wide so you can plane and joint.  Once you have 3 boards selected face joint all three than run the opposite face through your planer.  Next step is edge joint all three.  Ready to glue them together using one of the three methods I described for alignment.

There is a kicker.  I went back and took a close look at the Grizzly jointer your looking at.  It is really a light weight bench top machine with a small motor.  It is going to be very difficult to joint the long and heavy boards needed for the countertop.  I would closely check the reviews or better yet try to find somebody that has one to talk to.

Thank you Larry!  Priceless.  I'm going to relook the jointer with your comments in mind.  Combined with Doc's ideas for mining the split alder slabs for smaller glueable members, I think I'm beginning to see a solution.

[21incher]

One thing that probably is a good idea will be to heat treat them if they haven't  been sprayed for insect and egg control if you don't  want added character later.

[Maximus]

Nice one, Doc.  I lost a good 15 minutes of sleep last night, trying to recover from laughing.  I straight-face read your full comment out loud to my wife (just as you wrote it, with the lice diagnosis tucked innocently between lumber facts), and her face went blank, like she must have misheard me.  At her puzzled request, I matter-of-factly reread it, explaining that you are indeed a medical doctor.  It just kept giving.

Everyone's comments filtered through my dreams last night, and I awoke with the glimmerings of a near-term solution:  We already cleared an area between our wood stove and dehumidifier, and checked the crawl-space under the house for load-bearing.  It's a good spot for a lumber pile.  (We'll see when my wife wakes up if she'll still let me bring lumber inside  :D)

I'll debark the fir slabs and sticker those inside first, hopefully before kickoff.  Then over the weekend, I'll use some combination of the mill and my Makita 10" framing saw to cut the alder slabs down to barkless 8"-12" width, then sticker those inside near the fire.  Once they're drying, I can turn my attention to finding the right jointer/surfacer for the rest of the job.  We're open to recommendations, and will certainly not intentionally shoot ourselves in the foot by going cheap on tool(s) that could make or break the entire remodel.

This gives us two bites at the apple:  If the alder ends up glueing-up and finishing nicely, we'll have all-alder countertops.  The fir will be our countertop reserve, which we can later use for a live-edge table and island.

We very much appreciate everyone's comments about the 30" depth on the counters.  I'll revisit that issue with my wife again once/if she's gotten over the lice comment.   :D

I'll post photos once we get the slabs stickered inside.  As piling lumber indoors is probably a bit unusual, they may be helpful exhibits for others in convincing their spouses of similar ridiculous ideas.  I'll try to make it look presentable.

Overall, it may be a milling-heavy year, as our remodel contractor seems interested in perhaps using green lumber for some of the posts/beams/stairs etc.  That's one reason we built the mill shed the way we did (photos in gallery), to show him we can produce attractive, structurally sound, large timbers.  We'll see!

[Maximus]

Before I ever even start making cuts on my slabs or lumber to make a top  or whatever I go over the WHOLE piece of wood and fill every crack cranny, split, loose (or even maybe questionable) knot or defect I can find with epoxy. 

Thanks Old Greenhorn!  That's very, very useful advice.  My dad was a builder, and when he did furniture-stuff, I remember him doing quite a bit of that himself.  In his day, it was just wood putty, but he sure took his time on that step.  I'm definitely going to pay much closer attention to it, too!

[Maximus]

One thing that probably is a good idea will be to heat treat them if they haven't  been sprayed for insect and egg control if you don't  want added character later.

Oy, yes.  This is really the kicker.  That was actually the original purpose for the garage kiln (which I am now trying to avoid).  I believe I can properly dry the wood, it's the bugs I'm not so sure about!  We did not borax them initially, unfortunately, and I'm reluctant to wet them now, after drying them under cover for so long.

We may have to revert to kilning as the final step.  We'll decide that after we see how the lumber shapes up.  It would be the last prep step anyway, when the wood's its driest.

Anyone know of a safe chem treatment we could do in our garage that would not compromise the drying?

[Old Greenhorn]

 Epoxy isn't the 'be all, end all' solution, but it can help get you there. I started with this over 3 years ago:





And ended up with this.

 

 

If you look at this second photo you will see a blue streak that leads up to 'the pond'. That is actually a growth crack where this tree and another grew together but didn't quite join up. At the near end it actually goes nearly through, so that, and those other dark streaks to the left are all epoxy filled and stabilized defects, which I tried to turn into 'features'. Your mileage and taste may vary. This one was/is a bar.

[wudshp]

I wish there had been a Larry to guide me in the right direction on equipment when I started. He saved you a big disappointment by looking up the particulars of the machine you were considering.   If you are going to joint and plane large slabs there is no substitute for larger machines both in weight and in feed and out feed support.  I have had a larger grizzly 12 inch jointer/planer and have run thousands of board feet over and through it.  My conclusion is that it is the smallest machine I would consider for what you propose.  It probably weighs 500 pounds and about 50 inches long in jointer mode, has a segmented head and a 5 horsepower motor.  With a mobile base it has given me lots of utility in a fairly small space.   

 

I remember considering felder, hammer and Jet as alternative manufacturers.  The grizzly had the segmented head others didn't at the time.  The reality is that  full width slabs approaching 8 feet or heavier species require 2 people who work well together to process especially on the jointer, and the planer on this model has a real limit of 12 inches and not a smidge more.  Dust collection is essential and I spent time shimming the tables using a flat edge and feeler gauges to get it set up properly when it arrived. I would buy a combination machine again as its been great for furniture and saves space but I plan to make a slab flattening jig to ride on the sawmill because handling large material is taxing and borderline dangerous (mainly jointing) when working with full width material in countertop and table dimensions. 

[Maximus]

Lazy update:

I only got 4 slabs debarked by kickoff.  Remembering Old Greenhorn's guidance, instead of cutting off rotted cavities, I used my angle grinder to do "dental work" on two slabs, giving me the option to epoxy-fill them later if I need the length.  I'm using a draw knife for most of the debarking, which as y'all know, is slow-going.  I may use the angle grinder a bit more to debark the other 3 slabs.

And whoops, "7 Doug fir slabs" are actually 3 fir and 4 spruce.  In case that matters.

[Brad_bb]

I've read and re-read the original post and I'm still confused.  You have cut live edge slabs, but what you intend to do is cut off the live edge and make 8",10", 12" planks etc?  If you're not using the live edge,  then cut them into planks first, leaving enough material to end up at your final desired sizes after drying shrinkage and milling to get them flat and straight.  Stack and sticker this lumber on a lumber pallet and strap it.  If it's already air dried, Kiln dry it to 6-8%.  Don't bother bringing it inside.  Then find someone local or relatively local that can machine you're plans flat and straight.  It's not worth it for this project to boy the heavy duty equipment.  The project won't pay for the equipment.  Then do your glue ups.  Then find someone with a wide belt sander that can handle the width of your table, island tops etc.  If you can't find that, then find someone with a slab flattener.  Then you'll have to belt sand all of those marks out then orbital sand those marks.  To find someone with the equipment I would look at
https://makerbook.io/
If you can't find anyone on there, also find out who's flattening slabs in your area.  Marketplace is one place to look.  Google map search for slabs etc. Maybe there's a facebook group for wood workers in your area.  Here in indiana we have Central Indiana woodworkers group on facebook.  Lots of slab companies post on there. 

Also FYI, to flatten a wide slab, you could easily lose 1/2 inch of thickness to get it flat due to twist.  Just depends how thick you started and how much it moves in drying.  Knots, and other defects will contribute to uneven drying and more twisting.  So if you know you have those kinds of defects, slab thicker so you have enough material to remove and get it flat.  Ripping your slabs into the narrower planks, you will lose less thickness to flatten them because the wider the piece is, the more the twist is magnified.

In 2023 I needed to start processing all of my air dried lumber and slabs.  I evaluated buying a large jointer.  I have a 20" planer. For the added cost of the jointer plus the cost of the electrician running the additional circuit etc, in the end didn't make sense.  I would not need such large equipment after processing my wood (12,000-15,000 Board feet).  I found a local shop who could flatten all my lumber using their over under machine, which is a jointer planer all in one pass.  Then they straight line rip one edge resulting in S3S lumber.  For what they charged per board foot, and the speed they worked and the experience they had, it didn't make sense for me to make the capitol investment.  This also keeps my time free to work on my other wood projects.  The same was true for kiln drying.  I arranged with a local guy who had two Nyle kilns of which held about 2300 BF of 4/4 lumber.  I scheduled with him to completely load one kiln (occupy one at a time), while he use the other for other things.  I also arranged my lumber per his specs on my lumber pallets so that the kiln could be loaded directly with the strapped pallets and not need any hand loading.  This saved on his labor cost and my BF cost was very reasonable using an entire kiln at a time like that with the fast palletized loading.

[Old Greenhorn]

Well, I never said you should grind the dickens out of them! :D
In fact, I leave all that junk in there unless it's ugly because the epoxy flows around it all and the junk acts as space filler to save a little epoxy. If you carve it out, remember that what's left will be visible under the epoxy, so make it look good, or attractive, or at least interesting. ;D  Maybe hit it with a torch or something first. On deep pockets you can put in interesting rocks and stuff like that. I have a snakeskin in the pond in the bar shown above. If the wood is just punky, you can use a thing penetrating epoxy. Doc and Tule can guide you better on that than I can.

[Ianab]

This is a table I made a few years back.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=86866.0



It's about 3ft wide x 5 ft long, a single board, and had several small defects. Those were plugged, epoxied and some had souvenirs embedded. The planing and jointing was done with a large router and jig. That leaves a finish good enough to tidy up with handheld sanders.

If I wanted to do more, I'd consider the planer and sanding attachments for the mill to speed things up.

[Maximus]

Well, I never said you should grind the dickens out of them! :D

My bad!  I was having too much fun.  Prettying it up a bit and adding some nice river rocks to the epoxy sounds good, especially with so much space to fill.

[doc henderson]

you can add saw dust from the piece to make an opaque color that does not stand out.  Tule gave me these pearls.  live natural stuff is neat for that reason, but not perfect.  if you cannot make it perfect, go for natural.  I filled some cracks on the edge of the sycamore bar top with epoxy and saw dust.  raked it with a brush and left it a bit rough.  I have embedded turquois and bear claws, and arrow heads. 



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tule peak timber]

All good advice above from the other members here. We join/joint slabs together in a number of different ways, depending. Doug fir and alder are both pretty stable woods, after drying and you need to figure out if you want to bring the wood to the machine or the machine to the wood. In a lot of cases, a powered hand planer used in a 45 degree crosshatch pattern, then up and down the length, is really good at getting stuff flat, and it's inexpensive. A couple of other things folks haven't yet mentioned is the glue and your final surface finish. You might want to take a look at PUR (Gorilla Glue), which has gap filling properties if your joints are less than perfect. You will need to decide if you want a film forming finish, which is very durable until you scratch it, then you have to sand and repair. A penetrating oil finish is not that tough, but very easy to repair and requires periodic maintenance. There's a finish in between, which we chose for our kitchen counters called Watco Teak Oil finish and we've been going on it for about 5 years with good results. Here is a pic of some raggedy slab sections that I am preparing today with epoxy for a wall of cabinets. Without the epoxy, these bark inclusions, and split, damaged chunks of firewood would never run through a machine for shaping without exploding. Epoxy has its place.

 
I read your profile and kudos on your service in the Army, which was my choice for several years. I was born in Oak Harbor, probably pretty close to your location. As far as the head lice, chrysanthemum oil is your best friend.  :D

[Maximus]

I've read and re-read the original post and I'm still confused. 

Thanks Brad!  Your posting is very thoughtful and educational.

Long story short, we didn't know what we were doing when we started out.  We bought our retirement home in the woods to garden, but then the neighbor's clearcut gifted us 76 blown-down trees, and counting.  So I bought myself a mill, and a chainsaw for my wife for Christmas.  She didn't divorce me!  The first year (2021-22) was pure disaster response.  C'est la vie!

This is what we bought:





This what it looked like 6 months later:





So, right...*you're* confused?  No, no...*WE'RE CONFUSED!*

[Maximus]

I promised pictures.  We debarked the fir and spruce, piled inside next to the stove, stickered and strapped.

13.8% moisture content, will monitor weekly for the next 2-3 months.





Plenty of room for a stack of alder next to it.  We'll get on that tomorrow.





I had to chamfer the sharp edges of the 2x4s used to anchor the top and bottom of the strapping.  That was the first time I've ever used a router.  Fun!  Makes me think the router-jig surfacer is a neat solution to avoid the jointer/surfacer dilemma. 

[doc henderson]

might want a fan in the room so air goes through the stack, and does not just dry the near side.  box fans are cheap.

[Maximus]

might want a fan in the room so air goes through the stack, and does not just dry the near side.  box fans are cheap.

Thanks Doc.  Wilco.  I'm running a ceiling fan in that room to help circulate the wood stove heat throughout the house.  It's only on low though, one barely notices it.  I thought it would suffice, but now that I reconsider, I believe you're right.

[doc henderson]

idealy you would feel cool air coming out the back of the stack.  low is fine.

[Maximus]

...a powered hand planer used in a 45 degree crosshatch pattern, then up and down the length, is really good at getting stuff flat, and it's inexpensive.

There's a finish in between, which we chose for our kitchen counters called Watco Teak Oil finish and we've been going on it for about 5 years with good results.

Thanks Tule Peak!  Doc pointed me your way several times, and I see why.

I'm gradually losing interest in a jointer/surfacer, leaning more toward your powered hand planer idea.  My pop made lots of nice stuff using only hand tools and the most basic power tools, and it's hard to unlearn things you absorbed watching your dad when you were 5.

Your experience with the Watco teak oil is precious to us.  We had no idea what to do there, just that we wanted to avoid any coated finish that might chip and embed itself in our meatballs.

We brought in one pile of Alder yesterday, will add another today (once we buy more straps).  I had not planned on debarking them, but I tried it on one and liked the effect of the carving disc.  There are quite a few little voids in the wood, so your epoxy trick will certainly get some mileage.  And oh yes, my joints will be needing them some Gorilla Glue help for sure.

[Larry]

Its amazing how much work can be accomplished with nothing more than a good plunge router.  Surface, joint edges, cut, cut mortise/tenon joints, engrave, and just a bunch of other stuff.  One of the best routers is the Dewalt 625 if you don't mind no dust collection.

I do have a power hand plane but hardly ever use it, I guess because I never learned how.  I can handle hand planes but just mediocre because of lack of practice.

My friend surfacing a slab for a table.  I knocked together the router bridge out of scrap and have used it on many slabs with good results.