Why not make a circular sawmill?

[Firebass]

I did my research before I built my mill and to tell the Truth I think there are needs for both.  But if you only have one mill and don't want a ton of blade maintenance a 21 1/2 diameter swing-mill or as DanG said MD mill is my vote.   But then again,   I dont own or ever have ran a band mill.  With that said,  I would think that the band mill would work well  for re-sawing cants because most the dirt and inconsistanties in the diameter of the log ore true-ed up.

Firebass

[Bibbyman]

I think somewhere I had pictures of a neat circle sawmill that would really be rewording to build.  It makes the tour of the local Old Thrasher's Conventions.  It is about 1/4'th to 1/3'rd scale working replica.  It's powered by a similarly downsized fully operational steam engine.  The guys have the mill setup on a bench and saw bolt size logs about 3' long and up to 1' diameter on it.

[Dan_Shade]

i'd bet that there are a lot more circle saws out there putting out crap than there are circle saws putting out good lumber, but I'd also bet that the same goes for bandsaws.

now quality wood?  i'll bet more quality wood is sawn on circle saws than band saws.  Jeff and Ron have probably put more lumber on the ground in a day than most of us band saw guys do in a month!

[LeeB]

Probably about as much sawdust as we do lumber :D

[lord_kenwolf]

 i dont understand where all this hatred for circle mills is coming from. i have been around circle mills my whole life. when i was little my dad and grand dad owned an old american mill. now me and my dad own an old lane.  they are a great sawmill and they make very good lumber. if a circle mill isnt making good  lumber then that operater ether needs to fix his mill or learn how to use it. no matter what we saw, our lumber is what it is supposed to be. their is no wavy lumber coming off our mill.

[Dan_Shade]

a lot of old farm type sawyers held the belief "it's a sawmill, not a planer".  I hold that belief myself, but I try to make good boards.

a lot of those old farmers were just nailing boards on wagons and sheds, and didn't care if a board was a little crooked or there was a tooth out of set that dug deeper than the rest.

there was a contest here a few years ago (it's in the archives) of how thin a board you can saw.  some of the circle guys were cutting veneer with their saws!  I guess i'm saying that I wouldn't argue with Ron or Jeff, they know more than I do!   :D

[Tom]

I don't think it is sincere hatred, but rather friendly competition.
Did you know that circle mills, even though generally called "old-timey", are newer in design than reciprocating saws, and some say even bandsaws?  

There has been, and continues to be, a large volume of lumber produced using circular saws. :D

[Bibbyman]

Interesting we're having this discussion.  Back in 94 when I first got into sawing on a portable bandmill the consensus opinion was that you couldn't saw accurate lumber on a bandmill.  Old circle sawmillers looked at portable bandmills as a joke. 

The first generation bandmills were under a lot of handicaps.  The sawyers were starting from ground zero experience wise. The mills were low powered,  the guide systems were not as refined as they are today. Also blades of that time were not nearly as good as they are today. 

But a lot of things have changed in the past 20 years or so.  There are enough quality bandmills out there using good blades and are being run by people with experience that have and are producing lumber as accurate as any mill - certainly accurate enough coming from a mill.

When we first tried to market grade lumber some brokers would not talk to us because our little band mill could not possibly produce quality lumber.  We did find one that would give us a try.  I guess we passed the test because they bought all the lumber we brought them.  Later,  the broker that would not buy from us changed his mind and we started marketing to them.  They even allowed us to saw our 4/4 1/8" under what they required circle mills because of our uniform thickness and very shallow tooth marks.

What a change.  Mary has been called by lumber brokers wanting lumber.  They not only have lost their prejudice against bandmills but commented that the majority of the lumber they buy comes from bandmill operations.

Early this spring we delivered lumber to Bruce Flooring in West Planes, MO.  While in line to unload,  I took note of the lumber coming in on other trucks.  Most were sawn on bandmills.   (They may have been some kind of turn-around resaw system.)

Sometimes I've thought about how long it would take for me to be able to run a circle mill and understand its operation to produce quality lumber without someone with 20 years of experience standing over me to give me instructions.

[Bro. Noble]

Well now Dan,  You were warned early in this thread about putting down the quality of lumber sawn on a circle mill.  I really don't care about that,  but I sure hope you will tread lightly on us old farmers :

[DanG]

Sometimes I've thought about how long it would take for me to be able to run a circle mill and understand its operation to produce quality lumber without someone with 20 years of experience standing over me to give me instructions.

About half as long as it did with the bandmill. ;D

I'm not trying to foster a competition here between band guys and circle guys.  It seems, though, that there are a lot of things about circle mills that are a mystery to the band crowd, who seem to be in a majority here.  The fact is, it doesn't matter what type of mill you have.  If you care enough about the quality of product you are turning out, you will cut good lumber.  If you don't, you won't.

[Sprucegum]

Interesting thread - I've been asking myself this very question for about a week now  ;D

My research has turned up board thickness measurements in the 64ths of an inch for circle mills  but thats not why I bought one - I like the noise they make  8)

[Firebass]

Ya me Too! 8)
ZZZAAZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiinnnnnnngggg.

[Ron Wenrich]

I think you'll find that a lot of that bandsawn lumber comes off of bigger bandsaws than the ones you're used to working with.  1/8" thick bands and probably 6"+ wide.  Those resaws usually have 5-6' wheels.

We have one mill around here that puts out 100 Mbf per day of hardwood lumber.  They use 2 band resaws and one circle saw. 

[mike_van]

The thing I like best about my bandmill is the small amount of space it takes up, it's 20 ft long and saws a 16' 6" log. Because the head moves & not the log. I think the blades are a factor too as mentioned, the cost of a circle mill blade is substantial, and you probably need a spare too. I've seen a few that hit horseshoes & other big metal. The bandmill guy puts on a new 20.00 blade, the circle mill guy may have to send his out to be welded, hammered, whatever. Hey, there's a place for everything though, I had one guy tell me my lumber was too smooth, he wanted some roughsawn with all the saw marks from a circle mill. I should have bent a few teeth, maybe he would have been happy......... :D

[Dan_Shade]

Bro. Noble, the ingenuity and know-how of those old farmers is what made america great.  

my grandfather had an old frick mill, they were none too particular, my uncles that run it today are the same way.  I was talking to them about flipping cants and trim cuts for stress to keep the boards of similar thickness, they told me I was wasting wood, and they're right if your application isn't very "demanding".

[Larry]

Each type mill has there place.  One of the local mills in nw Missouri is running two Corley circle mills...along with a Brewco grade re-saw running 2" bands.  Seems more and more circle mills are feeding cants to some sort of grade re-saw for the best of both worlds.

[Nate Surveyor]

Whelll, I stand corrected.

Glad to see that things are not as they seemed. The guy with the circle mill was having me cut on the halves, because his was cutting tapered boards.

Nate

[Tremel]

I have an American Circular mill with a 54" blade.  It's a fun mill to operate, but as previous posters mentioned, it costs more to operate, My 60HP gas engine uses a ton of fuel, I need at least three guys (well, 2 is Okay), and I'm contently fiddling with it.  On the plus side, I can kick out a ton of lumber in one day and I use my circular mill on larger logs to make managable cants for my band mill.

I just purchased a band mill about three months ago.  I run the mill by myself and I use very little fuel and cleanup (sawdust) is about 90% less.

The two mills complement one another.

By the way, this is all a hoby.  I'm not a production or professional sawyer.

[thurlow]

I'm contently fiddling with it.

I love it.   ;D

[olyman]

LOTS of waste-----

[Dave Shepard]

Heres another way to look at it, I don't know it this has been addressed yet. What would you do with your mill? Are you looking to crank out as much pine siding as you can in a day? Or are you trying to get the most out of some high grade hardwoods, and maybe a thinner kerf is more important than mega production? Both mills have their place, and as mentioned, can compliment each other.

I know that when I first got into sawing, my grandfather told me to get a bandsaw, that the circle mills were too dangerous, and he co-founded Forestall, FWIW.


Dave

[Jeff]

All machines are Dangerous. Circle mills are just a lot less forgiving. If you do something stupid or get lackadaisical around them, they will eventually get you. A bandmill might as well, but it also might give you a second chance. I have all of my digits and all my limbs after a 25 year stint running a big circle mill. The only times I was injured (cut) by a saw was when it was not running, while changing teeth and breaking the pin in the change tooth, but I did have some close calls or two from not following predetermined safety guidlines.  I would imagine that just as many bandmill sawyers have been injured while uncoiling bands.   What ever you work with, you need to know your machine, know its limitations, know YOUR limitations, and work smart within those boundaries. If you don't, you will eventually pay regardless of what machine you run. 

[Dave Shepard]

I didn't mean to imply that bandmills are a walk in the park. The dangers he was referring to was the many scenarios involving hitting hardware, assorted flying debris, all of the exposed belting and shafting of the circle mills. He has a collection of grisly stories to tell. ANy piece of equipment can be dangerous, I just think that the circular mill offers more oppertunities to have something wild happen that you could not have prevented, even with the most severe safety level. Bandmills just stall, or break a band, circle mills can explode. I am sure you know all of this, having spent your life around them. I guess what I am trying to say is that circle mills are inherentlymore dangerous than bandills. I hope I don't sound like I am trying to start an arguement, I am just having a hard time spitting out what I am trying to say, it's been a long day.


Dave

[Ron Wenrich]

I was sitting back today trying to recount all this hardware that's supposed to give circle mils a fit.  I ruined one saw in 25 years and 50+ million bf.  That was a piece of 3/8" galvanized that didn't turn the oak blue. 

I've hit some other big metal, but nothing that ruined a saw.  I've had shoulders ripped off on some occasions.  Total damages may have run $5,000 or 10¢/Mbf.  That includes that ruined saw.

Hitting most nails is just a matter of sharpening the saw.  5 minutes down time.  Sometimes you don't even need to sharpen.  The worst is if you destroy a tooth.  They're a little over $1 apiece.  You rarely have to change all of them unless you hit an insulator.   >:(

The most dangerous piece of equipment is a vertical edger.  That puts holes in walls, roofs, and anything that gets in the way. 

Most circle mills nowadays have shields of some sort over the belts.  The long shaft is also obsolete with the use of electricity or hydraulics.  Something that was probably missing in your granddad's day.   ;)  Long shafts were often used as jack shafts.

[Dave Shepard]

Where's that DanG can-o-worms smilie anyhow? 


Dave