Why not make a circular sawmill?

[Jesse Frank]

Why not make a circular sawmilll? I noticed that darn near everyone that makes a mill makes a babdmill, and I was wondering why that is. it seems like a circular sawmill would be easier to make..

Anything I'm missing here? ???

[Bibbyman]

For one thing,  unless you can pick up a good used blade in good condition and the right size dirt cheap, a new circle saw blade, inserts, teeth, etc. will set you back more than the rest of the mill.

Also,  there are a lot of used circle mills available at prices lower than the cost of the metal to build one.

Also #2,  A circle mill of any size will need a substantial power source.  We're talking 4 to 10 times the HP required for a band mill.

[PawNature]

You can also forget portability as is the case with most band saw mills, 2-3 people are almost a must for circular mills.

[Trent]

The pros can correct me if I'm wrong, But I think a band mill can cut more with less energy, has less waste, and less sawdust. Its because of the thin Band mill blade. I don't know how wide a circular sawmilll blade is, but being thicker, it is surely doing more work to cut its path.

[Dave Shepard]

While there is always some danger with bandmills, circle mills are much more dangerous.


Dave

[Nate Surveyor]

The wood produced on an old circle saw tended to NOT be as accurate. It give another meaning to "Rough Sawn".

There is a reason that a standard 2"x6" is 1.5" x 5.5". After shrinking, and planing, miscuts, that was what was left.

In good tune, they were fast, and made alot of sawdust.

N

[brdmkr]

We have a few members here who have built their own swing mill.

[beenthere]

The wood produced on an old circle saw tended to NOT be as accurate. It give another meaning to "Rough Sawn".
........

Nate
If I was you, I'd step lightly wit dat statement......or conclusion.... ;D ;D ;D

[Modat22]

I like the thinner kerf, much less waste than a circle mill IMO.

[thurlow]

The wood produced on an old circle saw tended to NOT be as accurate. It give another meaning to "Rough Sawn".

HEY, HEY, HEY!!!!     I resemble that.   ;D

[DanG]

I ain't even gonna get into this, except to say, GO FOR IT Jesse.  You can do this.  A circular mill isn't any harder to build than a bandsaw.  After all, it is just a disc with teeth on it, equipped with a way to either move the log through the blade or the blade through the log.  You're welcome to come out and study mine, anytime. ;)

[Gary_C]

You're welcome to come out and study mine, anytime. ;)

Was that your disc or your teeth?   ???   

:D :D :D

[Ron Wenrich]

I see there are quite a few people who don't know much about circular mills. 

[arkansas]

Just wanted to add my $.02 into this.  While most of the above statements have some merit to them, Bibby has the one thought that holds the most true in my opinion.  Last new saw we bought ran right around $3000.00.  While that is not alot in some peoples eyes, it is possible to build an entire band mill for less that that by far.  That said, it is entirely possible to build a circle mill, very simple machine, yet also very unforegiveing of misalignments but I suppose all mills are somewhat that way.  Only thing is when a 54" metal disc with teeth on it hits the end of a headblock everyone around is in danger, when a little band blade saws the top off a dog, we stop and put another one one, both get alittle exciting but one is much more dangerous. Now about the labor, it is much harder run a circle mill with 2 or even 3 guys, due to the much higher production rate and the over all layout of this type of mill. The wood produced on an old circle saw tended to NOT be as accurate, while this statement maybe true in some areas of the country, I tend to think, the mill right and the sawyer would be having a long talk about this one.
Now with all that said, this is one opinion, circle mill equals higher cost of start up, higher labor cost but in turn produces higher production, by far.  Band mill lower cost for start up, lower cost for labor, and in turn lower production.
As I said, only my $.02, your mileage may vary.
Michael

[Nate Surveyor]

"Not as accurate".

Whelll, my neighbor has one. An that is what I see.

N

[DanG]

Gary, Jesse is just a young fellow, so I'm sure my discs and teeth would serve as a good bad example for him.  Might save him some grief down the road. :D :D

Y'all be careful telling Jesse what he can't do.  He might make a monkey outta ya! :D

Got to thinkin' about this blade expense issue.  I got a couple of old buzz saw blades laying around.  Any reason a fellow couldn't silver-solder some teeth like the swingers use onto them?  You could make a circular saw blade pretty cheap, that way.

As far as accuracy is concerned, I have customers who come to me because the lumber from my mill is accurate.  There are a couple of bandmill guys in the area that have almost ruined the portable/small sawmill business because they can't cut a straight board for love nor money.  Now, we all know that bandmills can and do make excellent lumber, but ya gotta do your homework first, then stay right on top of blade maintenance to make that happen.  The accuracy of ANY sawmill depends largely on the skill of the sawyer, mainly the skill of maintaining the saw.  That's the entire saw, not just the blade.  Example: How many of you bandmill guys have wasted hours or days chasing blade problems, just to find that a worn bearing was causing the trouble?

More work?  Not even!  I'll put my old Mobile Dimension saw up against anybody's mill on that count, especially sawing alone.  It all depends on how the lumber is handled after the blade gets through doing its thing.

BTW, I lied in that other post when I said I wasn't getting into this. ;D  Lord, forgive me and bless all them little pigmies in New Guinea.

[Ron Wenrich]

One thing that is missed on the blade issue is that a circle blade lasts a whole lot longer than those small bands.  My blade costs are somewhere in the $1-2/Mbf, and that's considering the high cost of steel and the high cost of the initial investment.  I get about 5-10 Mbf between sharpenings and a set of teeth last me up to 75 Mbf.  I could get more, but production is more of a factor than the small cost of a set of teeth.  Cost to a set of teeth is about $60.  This is for a big blade.

I never had problems with accuracy on any circle mill I run and I've run some old clunkers.  It isn't all the equipment's fault.   ;)  Feed rates, misfiled teeth, dull teeth, and a host of other things can all cause problems, no matter what size blade you use.

I think the inserted teeth would make a better blade than those old buzz saws.  You could get some old head saws and have them cut down and have new inserts put in them.  I know it isn't cheap.  New edger saws are $600 each.  24" with 22 teeth.  Less teeth will make it cheaper.

Kerf savings may be a factor in high quality wood.  Most often the kerf savings is offset by lower production rates.  If you're addressing niche markets, band saws make sense.  If you're addressing low or medium grade markets, circle mills will keep product flowing.

If a guy wants to build a mill with circle saws, I believe there is a lot of room for innovation. 

[jim king]

OK guys I just cant help it.  Below is a photo of a saw we made out of scrap bloodwood, purpleheart and shihuahuaco.  We made it because not one of the big 10 inch band headrig bandsaws in town could cut our wood without more waves in the board than a wind blown lake plus two boards meant changing the blade for resharpening.

This simple little beast lets us cut over a cubic meter of 1/2 inch boards from chainsaw cut cants  a day or 400 plus bf with two people and they are straight.  And 1 and 1/8 inch boards with two men we can get on a good day cutting wood that makes oak seem like styrafoam up close to 3000 bf.  We use 20" blades.  We made our sharpener out of a $30 Chinese waterpump as we removed the pump and made an adapter for the sharpening disc.

[Fla._Deadheader]

These guys don't really know HARD wood, Jim.  : :D :D :D

  Nice looking set up. Down here, everything is steel, and the welds make ya wonder, sometimes. I've watched 2 guys resawing with electric motors, and they nearly stall the motors, shoving wood into the blade so fast. Guessing 7.5 HP, and the wood is usually semi-hard or softer. Speed seems to impress everyone down here  : : ;D

[Ron Wenrich]

I especially like those rollers.   8)  Not very often you see wooden ones. 

[jim king]

DanG said dont let them make a monkey out of you.  This is Penelope after a hard days work and a cold one taking a break in the office.  I forgot to mention that the electric motor is 25 to 30 hp.  It didnt have a tag on it when we bought it so we are not sure.

.

[brdmkr]

There are a couple of bandmill guys in the area that have almost ruined the portable/small sawmill business because they can't cut a straight board for love nor money.  Now, we all know that bandmills can and do make excellent lumber, but ya gotta do your homework first, then stay right on top of blade maintenance to make that happen.  The accuracy of ANY sawmill depends largely on the skill of the sawyer, mainly the skill of maintaining the saw. 

Amen.

We have an LT40HD where I work.  It was purchased about the same time I got my Lucas.  I went by to look at their product just after it was purchased.  The wood was wavy with over 1/4" variation on 4/4 stock

It made me really glad that I had a swinger.  Now, after the sawyers have had some practice, the wood off of that WM is as accurate as any I have seen.  Just goes to show that a little experience with the mill goes a long way.

[DanG]

That Penelope is a cutie!  Modest little thing, ain't she? :D :D :D

That little mill is a good example of what I was talking about.  That's a DanG nice one!  I like the wooden rollers, too.  I guess, in reality, it is just an overgrown table saw.  I've used my ordinary table saw like a sawmill a number of times, usually when I'm settin' around the fire on a winter evening.  If I find an interesting stick in the firewood, I'll put it on the table saw and make some pretty little boards out of it.

You can make some kind of a sawmill out of just about anything with a blade on it.  It ain't even gotta go round and round.  It can go back and forth or up and down.  

I think I near-bout got this Jesse Frank character figgered out.  I'm gonna nominate him for MLTEUWAPS.  That'd be, "Most Likely to End Up With a Pit Saw".  ;D

[Jesse Frank]

[quote author=DanG link=topic=25775.msg368202#msg368202 date=1179688103
I think I near-bout got this Jesse Frank character figgered out.  I'm gonna nominate him for MLTEUWAPS.  That'd be, "Most Likely to End Up With a Pit Saw".  ;D

I think you're right! :D

I do like that one with the wooden rollers... that's right up my alley. I was thinking simple. I'm not coming at it from a production perspective, I'm coming at it from a "it beats the hell out of a broad ax" perspective ;) Someday I'll get some sense, but that day aint come yet ;D

[Jeff]

"Not as accurate".

Whelll, my neighbor has one. An that is what I see.

N

Then the correct post would have been that HIS lumber is not as accurate.  I would put up any of the lumber I used to saw for accuracy against most any band saw. If the lumber is not good, I blame it on the sawyer. If the saw is at fault, I blame that on the sawyer. Its his job to make it right.

I see there are quite a few people who don't know much about circular mills. 

:D   Yup, I agree.



There's no reason why you can't put a circle saw together Jesse. I hope ya do. 

[Firebass]

I did my research before I built my mill and to tell the Truth I think there are needs for both.  But if you only have one mill and don't want a ton of blade maintenance a 21 1/2 diameter swing-mill or as DanG said MD mill is my vote.   But then again,   I dont own or ever have ran a band mill.  With that said,  I would think that the band mill would work well  for re-sawing cants because most the dirt and inconsistanties in the diameter of the log ore true-ed up.

Firebass

[Bibbyman]

I think somewhere I had pictures of a neat circle sawmill that would really be rewording to build.  It makes the tour of the local Old Thrasher's Conventions.  It is about 1/4'th to 1/3'rd scale working replica.  It's powered by a similarly downsized fully operational steam engine.  The guys have the mill setup on a bench and saw bolt size logs about 3' long and up to 1' diameter on it.

[Dan_Shade]

i'd bet that there are a lot more circle saws out there putting out crap than there are circle saws putting out good lumber, but I'd also bet that the same goes for bandsaws.

now quality wood?  i'll bet more quality wood is sawn on circle saws than band saws.  Jeff and Ron have probably put more lumber on the ground in a day than most of us band saw guys do in a month!

[LeeB]

Probably about as much sawdust as we do lumber :D

[lord_kenwolf]

 i dont understand where all this hatred for circle mills is coming from. i have been around circle mills my whole life. when i was little my dad and grand dad owned an old american mill. now me and my dad own an old lane.  they are a great sawmill and they make very good lumber. if a circle mill isnt making good  lumber then that operater ether needs to fix his mill or learn how to use it. no matter what we saw, our lumber is what it is supposed to be. their is no wavy lumber coming off our mill.

[Dan_Shade]

a lot of old farm type sawyers held the belief "it's a sawmill, not a planer".  I hold that belief myself, but I try to make good boards.

a lot of those old farmers were just nailing boards on wagons and sheds, and didn't care if a board was a little crooked or there was a tooth out of set that dug deeper than the rest.

there was a contest here a few years ago (it's in the archives) of how thin a board you can saw.  some of the circle guys were cutting veneer with their saws!  I guess i'm saying that I wouldn't argue with Ron or Jeff, they know more than I do!   :D

[Tom]

I don't think it is sincere hatred, but rather friendly competition.
Did you know that circle mills, even though generally called "old-timey", are newer in design than reciprocating saws, and some say even bandsaws?  

There has been, and continues to be, a large volume of lumber produced using circular saws. :D

[Bibbyman]

Interesting we're having this discussion.  Back in 94 when I first got into sawing on a portable bandmill the consensus opinion was that you couldn't saw accurate lumber on a bandmill.  Old circle sawmillers looked at portable bandmills as a joke. 

The first generation bandmills were under a lot of handicaps.  The sawyers were starting from ground zero experience wise. The mills were low powered,  the guide systems were not as refined as they are today. Also blades of that time were not nearly as good as they are today. 

But a lot of things have changed in the past 20 years or so.  There are enough quality bandmills out there using good blades and are being run by people with experience that have and are producing lumber as accurate as any mill - certainly accurate enough coming from a mill.

When we first tried to market grade lumber some brokers would not talk to us because our little band mill could not possibly produce quality lumber.  We did find one that would give us a try.  I guess we passed the test because they bought all the lumber we brought them.  Later,  the broker that would not buy from us changed his mind and we started marketing to them.  They even allowed us to saw our 4/4 1/8" under what they required circle mills because of our uniform thickness and very shallow tooth marks.

What a change.  Mary has been called by lumber brokers wanting lumber.  They not only have lost their prejudice against bandmills but commented that the majority of the lumber they buy comes from bandmill operations.

Early this spring we delivered lumber to Bruce Flooring in West Planes, MO.  While in line to unload,  I took note of the lumber coming in on other trucks.  Most were sawn on bandmills.   (They may have been some kind of turn-around resaw system.)

Sometimes I've thought about how long it would take for me to be able to run a circle mill and understand its operation to produce quality lumber without someone with 20 years of experience standing over me to give me instructions.

[Bro. Noble]

Well now Dan,  You were warned early in this thread about putting down the quality of lumber sawn on a circle mill.  I really don't care about that,  but I sure hope you will tread lightly on us old farmers :

[DanG]

Sometimes I've thought about how long it would take for me to be able to run a circle mill and understand its operation to produce quality lumber without someone with 20 years of experience standing over me to give me instructions.

About half as long as it did with the bandmill. ;D

I'm not trying to foster a competition here between band guys and circle guys.  It seems, though, that there are a lot of things about circle mills that are a mystery to the band crowd, who seem to be in a majority here.  The fact is, it doesn't matter what type of mill you have.  If you care enough about the quality of product you are turning out, you will cut good lumber.  If you don't, you won't.

[Sprucegum]

Interesting thread - I've been asking myself this very question for about a week now  ;D

My research has turned up board thickness measurements in the 64ths of an inch for circle mills  but thats not why I bought one - I like the noise they make  8)

[Firebass]

Ya me Too! 8)
ZZZAAZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiinnnnnnngggg.

[Ron Wenrich]

I think you'll find that a lot of that bandsawn lumber comes off of bigger bandsaws than the ones you're used to working with.  1/8" thick bands and probably 6"+ wide.  Those resaws usually have 5-6' wheels.

We have one mill around here that puts out 100 Mbf per day of hardwood lumber.  They use 2 band resaws and one circle saw. 

[mike_van]

The thing I like best about my bandmill is the small amount of space it takes up, it's 20 ft long and saws a 16' 6" log. Because the head moves & not the log. I think the blades are a factor too as mentioned, the cost of a circle mill blade is substantial, and you probably need a spare too. I've seen a few that hit horseshoes & other big metal. The bandmill guy puts on a new 20.00 blade, the circle mill guy may have to send his out to be welded, hammered, whatever. Hey, there's a place for everything though, I had one guy tell me my lumber was too smooth, he wanted some roughsawn with all the saw marks from a circle mill. I should have bent a few teeth, maybe he would have been happy......... :D

[Dan_Shade]

Bro. Noble, the ingenuity and know-how of those old farmers is what made america great.  

my grandfather had an old frick mill, they were none too particular, my uncles that run it today are the same way.  I was talking to them about flipping cants and trim cuts for stress to keep the boards of similar thickness, they told me I was wasting wood, and they're right if your application isn't very "demanding".

[Larry]

Each type mill has there place.  One of the local mills in nw Missouri is running two Corley circle mills...along with a Brewco grade re-saw running 2" bands.  Seems more and more circle mills are feeding cants to some sort of grade re-saw for the best of both worlds.

[Nate Surveyor]

Whelll, I stand corrected.

Glad to see that things are not as they seemed. The guy with the circle mill was having me cut on the halves, because his was cutting tapered boards.

Nate

[Tremel]

I have an American Circular mill with a 54" blade.  It's a fun mill to operate, but as previous posters mentioned, it costs more to operate, My 60HP gas engine uses a ton of fuel, I need at least three guys (well, 2 is Okay), and I'm contently fiddling with it.  On the plus side, I can kick out a ton of lumber in one day and I use my circular mill on larger logs to make managable cants for my band mill.

I just purchased a band mill about three months ago.  I run the mill by myself and I use very little fuel and cleanup (sawdust) is about 90% less.

The two mills complement one another.

By the way, this is all a hoby.  I'm not a production or professional sawyer.

[thurlow]

I'm contently fiddling with it.

I love it.   ;D

[olyman]

LOTS of waste-----

[Dave Shepard]

Heres another way to look at it, I don't know it this has been addressed yet. What would you do with your mill? Are you looking to crank out as much pine siding as you can in a day? Or are you trying to get the most out of some high grade hardwoods, and maybe a thinner kerf is more important than mega production? Both mills have their place, and as mentioned, can compliment each other.

I know that when I first got into sawing, my grandfather told me to get a bandsaw, that the circle mills were too dangerous, and he co-founded Forestall, FWIW.


Dave

[Jeff]

All machines are Dangerous. Circle mills are just a lot less forgiving. If you do something stupid or get lackadaisical around them, they will eventually get you. A bandmill might as well, but it also might give you a second chance. I have all of my digits and all my limbs after a 25 year stint running a big circle mill. The only times I was injured (cut) by a saw was when it was not running, while changing teeth and breaking the pin in the change tooth, but I did have some close calls or two from not following predetermined safety guidlines.  I would imagine that just as many bandmill sawyers have been injured while uncoiling bands.   What ever you work with, you need to know your machine, know its limitations, know YOUR limitations, and work smart within those boundaries. If you don't, you will eventually pay regardless of what machine you run. 

[Dave Shepard]

I didn't mean to imply that bandmills are a walk in the park. The dangers he was referring to was the many scenarios involving hitting hardware, assorted flying debris, all of the exposed belting and shafting of the circle mills. He has a collection of grisly stories to tell. ANy piece of equipment can be dangerous, I just think that the circular mill offers more oppertunities to have something wild happen that you could not have prevented, even with the most severe safety level. Bandmills just stall, or break a band, circle mills can explode. I am sure you know all of this, having spent your life around them. I guess what I am trying to say is that circle mills are inherentlymore dangerous than bandills. I hope I don't sound like I am trying to start an arguement, I am just having a hard time spitting out what I am trying to say, it's been a long day.


Dave

[Ron Wenrich]

I was sitting back today trying to recount all this hardware that's supposed to give circle mils a fit.  I ruined one saw in 25 years and 50+ million bf.  That was a piece of 3/8" galvanized that didn't turn the oak blue. 

I've hit some other big metal, but nothing that ruined a saw.  I've had shoulders ripped off on some occasions.  Total damages may have run $5,000 or 10¢/Mbf.  That includes that ruined saw.

Hitting most nails is just a matter of sharpening the saw.  5 minutes down time.  Sometimes you don't even need to sharpen.  The worst is if you destroy a tooth.  They're a little over $1 apiece.  You rarely have to change all of them unless you hit an insulator.   >:(

The most dangerous piece of equipment is a vertical edger.  That puts holes in walls, roofs, and anything that gets in the way. 

Most circle mills nowadays have shields of some sort over the belts.  The long shaft is also obsolete with the use of electricity or hydraulics.  Something that was probably missing in your granddad's day.   ;)  Long shafts were often used as jack shafts.

[Dave Shepard]

Where's that DanG can-o-worms smilie anyhow? 


Dave

[DanG]

Worms is good.  In your garden, they aerate and fertilize the soil.  On The Forum, they teach us about things that are different from what we are used to.  A can of worms, every now and then, keeps us from becoming stale and narrow-minded, because it always stimulate's discussion.

[Sprucegum]

And this can o'worms is easily opened at any time, I was surprised at the emotions/nostalgia stirred up when I was asking around the country about old mills. The mill may have been rusting in the bushes for 20 years but No...its Not for sale. Then they get that misty look in their eye and comment

"Uncle ran that mill"  or "Brother started off-bearing when he was 12" or "I'd have to ask all 7 brothers first"

One guy tried to donate his mill to the museum. The old Folks Committee couldn't agree on who would be in charge of it so he took it home again  :-\  :D

[sawguyver]

I run an old "American" and enjoy every minute. Its an older setup with wooden carrige and wooden track. It requires alot of tinkering and attention and thats the best part. For years I intended on building a band mill and maybe I still will but I don't think it will replace my circle mill. From my point they are to different sensations, sort of like the difference between a sailing dingy and a sailing a 40 footer. Both are exciting each with a totally differant set of concerns.
Completely different experiences.

I wish everbody could have the good fortune of seeing what a circle mill can do.




oh and here are some more wooden rollers

[Sprucegum]

Whats that mark on the toe of your headset?   

[sawguyver]

do you mean that saw kerf ;D

[firecord]

Here is something I dug up on circle saws when I was deciding between, build band or circle.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf

[Frickman]

Looks like I've been missing a good thread. Years ago I sold some 4 x 6 cants to a pallet shop. The next day they were on the phone, telling me they were having problems with the lumber, and I'd better get over there real quick. I went over, and they were griping that their resaw wouldn't cut my lumber. The problem was the finish was so smooth that they had trouble with it sliding on the stationary infeed table. There was so much wood fiber in contact with the table that the wood, being fresh-sawn, would actually stick. After a quick trip to the hardware store and a can of paste wax the resaw was up and running again. This lumber was sawn on a Frick circle mill, circa 1961. This particular shop bought everything I could produce for ten years until the retired. They always bought my lumber, even if they had to shut off other suppliers.

Yesterday was sawed poplar and oak barn lumber, alot of 16 and 20 foot stuff. Our mill cuts so accurately that you have to work hard to screw up lumber. We're sawing again tommorow and the next day the same thing, custom sawn barn lumber. I'm not going to say a band mill or a circle mill is better, just don't put one or the other down. If a circle mill is so bad, then why am I growing my business in a down lumber market?

Like some above posts stated, quality has alot to do with the operator, not just with the type of mill.

[Nate Surveyor]

Mr. Frickman!

I stand corrected!

And, thanks! I envision a circle mill to open logs with, and a band mill to resaw. Now that I have some testimony that accuracy is DO-ABLE on the circle mill, well I guess I will be re-thinking my equasion.  8)

N

[two saw]

I've not had much experience with either mill. The D&L I have is the only mill I have ever owned/run. I have watched band mills and big circle mills run and can see benefits of both.
Like others have said I think it is about your business/personal goals which would be the better mill for you.

[Buzz-sawyer]

I see there are quite a few people who don't know much about circular mills. 

AH yes we agree Mr W. ;)


My very first post on this forumwas about the circle mill that I built and still run......it is inexpensive to run
dead on accurate,
easy to replace teeth ,
cheap to work on ,
quick to sharpen,
and with helpers can cut close to 10,000bdft a day.....and I built it for under 2 grand.....but I like bandsawz to...they are cute toys 8) 8) ;)

[rpg52]

One of the reasons I decided to build a circular saw was because I plan to mulch my 25 acres of forest land with a foot of sawdust.  Previous occupants caused a lot of erosion and disturbance and I figure sawdust is likely the best treatment I could give it.  Not looking foreward to spreading it, but already have a 1 ton truck with a dump box on the back to move it around.

Like Arkansas said, "Now with all that said, this is one opinion, circle mill equals higher cost of start up, higher labor cost but in turn produces higher production, by far.  Band mill lower cost for start up, lower cost for labor, and in turn lower production."  Seems to sum it up accurately.
Ray

[Ron Wenrich]

Actually, it doesn't sum it up very well.  If you buy used, you can buy a circle mill fairly cheaply, especially when you consider production capacity.  A small, handset circle mill will produce several Mbf per day with only 2 or 3 people working it.  I used to do 5 Mbf/day on a circle handsert mill with a total of 3 workers. 

When you get to automatics, you double your production.  Used costs are similar or cheaper than a new bandmill.  Currently, I'm getting anywhere from 1.4-2.1 Mbf/hr cutting hardwoods, with a total of 5 men.  I could do it with 4.  So, my actual labor costs are lower than a bandmill.  You have to figure things in the $/Mbf range, not the $/hr.

My sawing costs are a lot lower than a small bandmill.  Sure, you get more sawdust, but you saw a lot more logs.   ;)

Sawdust won't do much for your erosion problems.  That'll just wash off with the next rain.  You need something to keep the soil from moving.

[rpg52]

Yeah Ron, to be more specific - my problem isn't really current erosion, it was erosion that occurred ~120 years ago.  I'm in the gold mining region of the Sierra Nevada.  The mining activities turned an area with limited soil depth (maybe 1.5') to one with 0.5'.  Any standing timber was cut too, but it's the soil loss that prevents it from coming back much.  Subseqently it was colonized by Scotch Broom, which seems to prevent the return of conifers.  I'm trying to heavily mulch it to discourage the Broom and enable the conifers to survive the summer drought.  Don't know how effective it will be, but it seems worth a try.  If I can get the conifers to overtop the Broom, it seems to depress it and prevent it from monopolizing all the ground.

Regarding circle vs bandsaw, I don't disagree with you.  For hobby type milling, even at the discount of costs, the mill I'm building will cost about the same as a bandsaw.  I'm sure the production will be higher, but I likely will never achieve it because of site constraints.  I'm not sure yet about the accuracy of this comment, but I was told that the operating costs of a circle mill were lower (mainly because of blade costs), so that the kerf issue was irrelevant to the cost of the lumber.  In other words, the narrower kerf of a bandsaw was equivalent when considering the lower cost of circle saw teeth.  More sawdust, but reduced maintenance costs, almost a wash.   Since I want the sawdust, it seemed like a logical choice.  Your mileage may vary, etc.  Had I bought a complete mill from a neighbor, it seems like the cost would have been considerably less.  Most of them disappeared from this area ~50 years ago though, unlike some parts of the country, so my choice seemed to be build a circle mill or buy a bandsaw.  If I had it to do over again, I might have made another choice.   :-\
Ray

[oakiemac]

To answer the original question, I say make one! If you do it right you will have a good, safe, accurate mill.

I'm not going to get into the band vs circular argument except to say that last fall I got way behind in my sawing and I hired a local guy with a bandmill to come in and saw up 2mbf of tulip poplar for barn siding. I was too busy to pay much attention to the lumber and I figured he would have no problems with the soft Poplar. Well after he left I got looking at my stack of 1X8's and couldn't believe it. Some of the boards are 5/4 on the ends, 6/4 in middle and who nows what else. The edges were so wavy I had to run most of the stuff through a gang rip saw just to get parallel sides. Alot of it was absolute junk.
I think I could take all the teeth out of my saw and still cut better lumber then this guy did.

[DanG]

Like I've said a dozen times, bandsaws will cut some beautiful lumber, but you gotta do your homework.  If a "sawyer" doesn't take the time to learn his trade, he won't make good lumber.  This will tell on a bandsaw man a lot quicker.  If the circle saw guy screws up, it won't be evident until the lumber is well into the drying process.  The bandsaw guy still has that problem, but he also has the chance to cut waves, and thick/thin stuff that the circle guy doen't have to worry about.

[inspectorwoody]

I like band and circle but if I had to choose.....It would be the ol' handset circle mill  ;D This is what I grew up on and probably the biggest reason why I chose  to start a career in the industry. Nothing is better smelling than sawdust and diesel in the morning  :D I miss it a great deal. The only smell I get anymore is from R.Oak.

My company still has a circle at the WI mill. There closer in our daily production at the main mill than I thought they would be. For the most part, whatever you throw at a circle, it can handle it.

[Dan_Shade]

why won't a circle saw cut thick on the ends or in the middle boards?

cant stress is cant stress, the log don't care what's cutting it...

[Corley5]

why won't a circle saw cut thick on the ends or in the middle boards?

They will  ;D ;D

[thurlow]

why won't a circle saw cut thick on the ends or in the middle boards?

Well.........................if the lead is wrong, it'll definitely cut thick on one end;  can't really say I've ever had trouble with thick or thin in the middle.  Maybe I'll think further on it.   

[Jeff]

why won't a circle saw cut thick on the ends or in the middle boards?

cant stress is cant stress, the log don't care what's cutting it...

They sure will. You can cut all sorts of oddities. :D Especially shows up in your dog boards if you have stress.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Ditto the dog board comment....If I get a beatiful last board I count myself blessed...they tend to show me the logs troubles.

[bowman316]

how does the log not bind in a circular sawmill?  I tried to trim down a beam that I cut down with a chainsaw.  After trimming the two sides off, I took it down to my table saw, and could not feed that thing thru there with out the blade binding and stalling. 
maybe i needed to plane the bottom edge to perfectly square, so it would not wanna curve

[Ianab]

You can get binding on a circle saw, but 100 odd horsepower takes a lot of stopping ....

Doesn't mean it wont cause issues of course. Blade gets hot instead of stalling and then things don't work properly any more.

It's possible to bind up a small circle mill (Swingblade) in a badly tensioned log. If you are expecting to happen you can slow down, and even back out of a tight spot and take another run at it. But what you are really doing is taking a thicker kerf in the cut, and that leads to slightly uneven boards.

But this is due to tension in the log making it bend as you cut part of it away

In your table saw scenario you have the problem of the "log" not being dead straight, or supported properly. This means it can also change angle in relation to the blade as you feed it. On a sawmill this shouldn't happen. The log is solidly clamped to the carriage and moving in alignment with the blade. Even if the log is crooked, the feed is still lined up.

With the small circle mills, the log is stationary, and the blade is moving. But the blade stays aligned with the cut at all times.

The table saw analogy would be a "sled" that you clamp the work piece too, and this runs in the slots on the  table. Now the board stays aligned with the blade, and binding is much less likely.

Ian

[jimparamedic]

Which saw is best that is up to the person who owns it. Everything has its place. My thing is a circular sawmill should make chips not dust and to do this it is the number of teeth in the saw. More teeth more power is needed. I have not run a band mill but I was told the same goes for them to. I choose a circular mill do to blade cost for me. When i bought my mill it cam with a 50" blade and a box of teeth. My first box i bought cost 37.50. About 2 yrs ago my second box cost 125.00. Now i must add that i have had this mill close to 15 years. So to this day i have less than 200.00 in my blade costs. Some day I hope to have a band mill to resaw with but until then I'll make do with what I have.