Deer management

[Walnut Beast]

On the state level and your personal property. Management makes a tremendous difference from selective harvest, habitat improvement, supplemental feeding, minerals, food plots  to grow and hold great bucks. On my new farm in Kansas I'm going to share ideas for my management plans and I hope others do as well with their place. I know several of you guys have some fantastic food plots and Jeff's pond is amazing he has been sharing and is proving to be a wildlife magnet.  Here is a good example on the State Level.

 

  For you guys that don't know the minimum scores for B & C here it is. Typical is 160"and non is 185"
The minimum score for a Boone and Crockett typical whitetail is 160, and the non-typical is 185.

[Nebraska]

I wish this state would implement a better system. Our game and parks system is totally dependent on user fee funding. So sell more tags is one of the ways to keep up cash flow. 

[doc henderson]

Well, Dallas is a fan.  Out of state tags. are 300 bucks each.  It brings folks in who pay for food and lodging, and local farmer ranchers can dual purpose some of their land and make a buck or two (pun intended).  Most of the buck that Dallas is ready to take are about 5 + years old.  Dallas has named them and many on the wall of his trophy shack have a history known to Dallas for years.  He paneled his room in wood, as he has a friend with a sawmill.  



 

some of his antlers.  many of these he gets, just walking or working fields.  he is a professional manure spreader.  



 

Sammy is his shop cat who likes to set in Dallas's chair.  



 

that is my coyote being stored in climate control.  got some looks bring it home in the back seat of my truck with Dallas's Bear, taken with a bow.  



 



 

 

you can see a bobcat that Dallas trapped, and I had mounted.  also, the bear claw ERC table.

[SawyerTed]

Local herd management is difficult here without some cooperation from surrounding land owners.   

We are a comparatively large property surrounded by smaller parcels.  We do join with two cooperating property owners, they are 85 and 100 acres.  So we are approaching 500 acres where we selectively harvest the best bucks we see.  Three have been taken - two nine points and a big 10. 

We are at 300 acres.  We are adjoined by several 5-30 acre home sites and hobby farms.  Seems like there's a hunter on several of them.  They take all the deer they see, button bucks, yearlings, 4s,6s.  

The sweet potato farmers just down the road were killing deer in their fields summer and fall.  Sometimes they killed several dozen a year.   That made for slim pickings for at time.  They raise corn now which is a huge improvement for the wildlife. 

Food plots are a strategy we use to attract and keep more deer on our property.  Placement is key for us, usually we have two or three plots that take advantage of bedding areas and travel areas.  We try to place them on the interior of our property.  

Food plots get divided into sections surrounded by double electric fence.  We open a section for archery season, an additional one for muzzleloader and a third for gun season.  Soybeans are for early seasons, brassicas for later seasons.  

We used to provide feed year round, salt licks and mineral blocks. CWD regulations prohibit those thing's January through part of August.

Statewide NCs management isn't very involved for deer.   Once they were re-established, deer have flourished.   If anything they are trying to reduce the herd in certain areas.  

[Southside]

Sadly here in Virginia deer are considered a nuisance animal for all intents and purposes. The Farm Bureau has a published policy agenda to get year round and unlimited deer kill permits, and if a buck lives to 4.5 years of age around here he is "old and rare".  It's completely nuts.  Mild winters, tons and tons of food available, and plenty of ground.  We should have true trophy deer around here, instead a 140 lb live weight buck is "big".  

I have a 12 pt on the farm that I have watched grow for several years now, his shed punched into a 12 ply tractor tire a few years ago when he was a 6 or 8 pt, I found another shed this spring when he was a 10 pt, and back in October he ran within 30' of me while chasing a doe as I stood on the edge of a field with a shovel, that was pretty surreal.  He still has a small body, and the antlers need some heft to them but the tines are tall and the brow tines are amazing.  I will get a picture of his last shed as I gave away the others to a friends son to use as rattling antlers. 

[Blackgreyhounds]

Around here, shootin' does is considered best practice for forestry management. They are so tasty and it's good for growing bucks, too. We can only get 2-3 antlerless tags/hunter/yr unless you have a >50 acres to enroll in DMAP.

[TroyC]

I'm completely with you on management. I have 200 acres and the neighbors on 3 sides all agree to do the same so that puts us close to 500 acres. However, one local has access to a property that borders my NE corner and he, his kids, grandkids, and most of his friends tend to shoot anything that moves. I've caught them baiting my property and nailing stuff to my trees. They evidently don't know where the property line is or either they don't respect it. I do everything I can to keep the deer resident on my property but I loose a few a year. I saw the most number of decent bucks this year than ever so things aren't completely bad.

[Walnut Beast]

Definitely feel for you guys on the challenges. We all have them it seems everywhere you go. Have to get creative and do the best you can. Any of you guys have or planted tall cover grasses. That's on my list for the management plan. Here is a picture of my new farm in the yellow boundaries with the locations of three gravity deer feeders with the red dots and a couple 300 gallon water tanks to give them every option to stay and not leave. I know the deer feeders can't be in everyone's budget. But they definitely take advantage of them if you are able to do it. In the picture the old railroad railway is a wildlife magnet. 

 

[Chuck White]

Definitely feel for you guys on the challenges. We all have them it seems everywhere you go. Have to get creative and do the best you can. Any of you guys have or planted tall cover grasses. That's on my list for the management plan. Here is a picture of my new farm in the yellow boundaries with the locations of three gravity deer feeders with the red dots and a couple 300 gallon water tanks to give them every option to stay and not leave. I know the deer feeders can't be in everyone's budget. But they definitely take advantage of them if you are able to do it. In the picture the old railroad railway is a wildlife magnet. 

I've seen tall grass barriers advertised on Outdoor Channel, it's called Barricade.  Mostly so people on the road (road hunters) can't see out into your property.

[Southside]

Here is the latest shed from my tire popping buck. 



 

Brow tine



 

[jb616]

I have had mixed results with switchgrass, mostly bad. I think it needs almost total sunlight and it takes a long time to germinate. Makes sure you spray a couple times for weeds, disc it and roll after seeding.

[Walnut Beast]

Nice pictures Southside! Hopefully that doesn't happen again or very often.

[Ron Scott]

Wow! A real tire stopper.

[KEC]

I knew a guy who owned ~85 acres that was his hunting property. He lamented that he never is able to take any big ones, but he had taken 7 yearling bucks that year. I told him that he needed to let some grow up. Many people with relatively small properties want to kill way too many deer than that acreage can produce on a sustained basis without spoiling it for adjoining landowners.

[Magicman]

It takes self discipline to manage deer. 

If you don't shoot him, he might make it to maturity. 
If you shoot him, he didn't make it.

[doc henderson]

Went hunting on a property where the landowner wants more does gone.  On other properties, Dallas has four bucks ready to harvest, but he leaves the does to propagate the herd.  He may wait 5 years to harvest a buck.  He has dropped leases where the owner leases to outfitters nearby.  It is Odd to sit in a blind at dusk and hear 5 shots from directions all around you.  too much pressure.



 

 

 

 

 

Sammy the shop cat, inspected the blind and found a few holes.  there is the straw that is used for roadside erosion control.  saw 8 does last PM, no shot.  they are kinda skittish at the end of the rifle season.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Some good points here but you should name this Trophy Deer Management. You have to determine if you want big deer or a lot of deer because there is a difference. I think most farmers would be very happy with trophy deer management where hunters harvest large number of does and small bucks.

    I understand the dilemma DNR has with quantity vs quality. They can probably please more people with liberal limits allowing people to shoot small bucks and lots of does. Yes, this annoys the trophy hunters but the small deer shooters pay for their licenses as well as the trophy hunters and the money does go to wildlife management and preservation. One compromise I see here in WV is Trophy Management Areas where only large bucks are legal there (defined as antlers 14" outside to outside - basically outside the ears).

   We also have one 4 county region where only archery hunting is allowed and a one buck and one antlerless limit. Crossbows are not even allowed there except with a medical excuse from a doctor. They kill some very big bucks there.

    I am not a  trophy hunter. My only reason to be interested in a big buck is that there is more meat on one. The flavor on the does and young bucks is actually better IMHO. I respect those hunters who hold out for a big buck - as long as they use all the meat - and hope they respect my right to shoot a smaller deer to eat.

   It does not bother me to see farmers get damage permits and shoot deer in their fields at night. That (farming) is their living.  I would prefer they salvage the meat but understand if they can't/don't.

    This topic reminds me of the Pulp wood or mature hardwood forest dilemma. We may prefer hardwoods but also would like to/must realize an income in our lifetime to be able to own/keep the property.

[doc henderson]

here it is for sport and or for food.  I am in the middle although I do not suffer from malnutrition, I appreciate eating what I kill.  the local meat shops that do wild game, will allow you to drop it off and donate the meat to charity.  Dallas has a whole fridge freezer for wild game sticks, jerky and summer sausage.  and yes, farmers can get tags for their property if crops are being destroyed.  I have at least one friend from my hometown who tried to avoid hitting a deer on the HI way, hit a center divider and rolled his SUV, and died.  I am sure insurance companies want the mass of deer controlled as around here it is a huge cost to repair damage to vehicles.  I get two tags each year and can get up to 4.  many years lately, I may not even get to hunt.  I have been out 3 time this year, seen 2 dozen deer and not brought one home yet.  Learned a lot from Dallas.  He has great respect for the sport, and the hunt, and the animals.

[Tom K]

Howard brought up the topic that I have been wanting to bringing up. Deer management means different things to different people. Managing herd size is different then managing for a rack size.

I only shoot does because my management goal is reducing herd size. I have also gotten damage control permits to harvest out of season ( OH requires does only & the meat be eaten or donated.)

Most guys around me are only rack hunters, so we have an over population of does and small bucks.

[Walnut Beast]

Doc does your friend Dallas do anything for trophy management. It looks like he pretty much hunts and leases on other peoples land ?

[SawyerTed]

We have 50 plus deer per square mile in our county, according to the NC Wildlife Commission. 

Here's a link to the map.  I live in a red county.

https://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0/Hunting/Documents/Deer/2020_Deer_Density_Maps.pdf

Quantity is not our problem countywide.  Quality is a concern.   

Our approach on our little section is antlered bucks until we tag out.   Then doe season begins for us.   It's loosely enforced among the three of us who hunt here. 

If we kill 4 does, we can get a bonus tag for 2 more does.

As far as farmers killing deer feeding in their crops, what bothered me was the method.  Deer were gut shot on purpose so they would leave the field and die elsewhere.  I had many die on my farm.   

[SawyerTed]

And weapon of choice was 17 HMR. 

[Walnut Beast]

Ted I totally understand your frustration! I would and do feel the same way. Sounds like you do a great job managing and you guys are having some great success with the great bucks you have taken.

Some of them nasty farmers giving the good farmers that respect wildlife a bad name!! Their is always a few bad apples out there!!

[WV Sawmiller]

Ted,

   I hate to hear about the farmers in your area gut shooting deer. I wish we could come up with a system such as is used in Africa, especially southern Africa, with game farms where the game farmers bring in teams of shooters and butchers. They come in at night with vehicles with lights and extra alternators to increase the power to the lights. The shooters use small diameter rifles such as .223 and make head shots so as not to damage the meat. Shooters shooting anywhere else get fired promptly. A team of butchers quickly skin and gut the animals and hang them in cooler units then the butchers process the meat which is sold in all local markets. You can buy Springbok, Kudu,  Oryx, etc. about as cheap as you can beef. The native animals thrived in the brushland that would not profitably support cattle or row crops.

    If the farmers could harvest and sell the meat from the deer damaging their crops they would have incentive to make careful, ethical shots and promptly process the meat.

   I know - This would open up all kinds of other problems encouraging illegal market hunting which we stopped back in the 1900's IIRC by prohibiting the sale of game animals and fish. Legally harvested game in Europe is typically allowed to be sold. Moose (Elk) was readily available for sale in Norway.

[SawyerTed]

I suppose it's much like when I  was a kid with my pellet rifle, the farmer who we rented our house from paid me 50 cents per squirrel for each one killed coming out of the corn crib and 75 cents for each one going in. 

There were more 75 cent squirrels than 50 cent ones.  :D  Always!   :D

The sweet potato farmer is a great guy.  He's the one to call if you need something, anything, if he can he will do whatever you need.   Need a bigger tractor he's the one, need someone to make some round ales, call he will be there, need a first responder - he's there. 

I just don't care for his method of deer control.  I understand he was trying to make a living. 

All I can say is I'm glad he's raising corn and doing grading and seeding work now.

[doc henderson]

He knows a lot of landowners and trades work for the lease.  He runs it like it is his own land and keep s the lease as long as he is able.  He finds the best landowners, so they do not overextend the area.  so, he feels like the deer are under his management.  He may follow a buck from birth to 6 years, if someone else does not take them out.  He has tons of game camera pics and will look to see who is coming in and at about what time.  He does not hunt in morning so as to not educate the deer.  many of the sheds are from working fields and or walking to find them.  He also does ice fishing, goose and duck hunting, as well as trapping.  He is a maniac.  grew up in North Dakota.

[Walnut Beast]

Very cool to hear Doc!

Remember guys just because you don't have any pictures on your cameras doesn't mean the one you're  keeping track of  or haven't seen isn't out there. Talking to a friend of mine tonight that only takes 180 inch + deer has 56 cell cameras out on 17 different farm's between him and another guy and you could count on one hand the pictures of big ones they have had lately. But they have seen them and know they are around. The big guys can become elusive.

[SwampDonkey]

Best thing I can do right now is open up the woods some with thinning to get new growth. Areas that aren't thinned have nothing for a deer to eat, like parkland. Actually, it was thinned, but time passes and canopy closes in again and little stuff withers and dies. Not many deer here, might get 3 or 4 tromping these old farms. Never was many here in this area. Other areas in other watersheds, used to have deer in groups of 50 or more, deer trails around lakes and rivers. The best wintering ground up here is predominately softwoods with openings and young maple, aspen and birch coming in the holes, plus old man's beard moss on windfalls. Biggest trouble is there is a lot of bears and coyotes around. :D The place is all tramped up with bear tracks this fall. Don't leave nothing out there for very long that you'd like to keep. :D

[Walnut Beast]

Made and freshened up a few mineral licks and put a few nutritional blocks out. The feeders and water tanks are getting hit hard but plenty of up and comers have been staying around. Here are a few from a few different locations.

 

 

 

 

[SwampDonkey]

The bears around here would love you. :D

[Ron Scott]

Well fed!

[Peter Drouin]

Im feeding now too with snow on the ground.


 


Old pixs, My feeder is not as nice as yours But works.

[Walnut Beast]

Looks pretty good to me Peter! Topping off the feeders and two water tanks yesterday. 170 gallons added to the one and 70 in another. Changed over to a special 17% protein deer pellets that are fairly unique with vasodilators, and many other benefits then switch to the 22% spring and summer blend along with some various food plots. This little guy in the picture treated me like another animal around the feeder and wanted to be buddies. 

 

[Old Greenhorn]

You know, Viagra is a vasodilator also. Wondering what the goal is there? :D ;D

[gspren]

 Earlier this month I went on a deer management hunt in Delaware with Patriot Hunts, I'll try to give the details. First off this was my first experience with Patriot Hunts a group that takes Veterans, LEOs, Firemen, Etc that are older or handicaped on outdoor adventures, they were great. We met at the property owners at 4:45 on the morning of the hunt for a talk from the prop owner and his son. This was an antlerless only hunt and he said try not to shoot little spikes or button bucks. Property is managed for quality bucks and they allow Patriot Hunts to bring in some hunters each year to thin the does, there were 8 of us older veterans. We were asked if we could climb a ladder to get in the stands otherwise they had spots for ground level hunting, I can still climb a ladder but slowly. They also mentioned that we would be hunting over food plots that were best in late afternoon so don't get discouraged in the AM. First thing in the morning I saw 2 small bucks, a bit later 3 does came out but all looked small so I didn't shoot. At a bit after 10:00 they picked us up and we went to another property with a hunting club that made us lunch and a long break for story telling then back to the stands by 2:00 for the afternoon hunt. Around 3:15 three does came into my food plot and after a few minutes I got a clear shot at the biggest one. They only had to go 20' to hit the edge where there was 8' tall grass of some sort so I didn't see her go down and the owner said stay in your blind after you shoot so I did. While waiting on the owners son and a guy from PH to show up I saw 2 more bucks and 6 more does but one deer was all I wanted and thats sort of what the owner prefered. When the guys showed up after dark I told them where she was standing and they quickly found the blood and took off faster than I can walk on uneven ground so I went back to the SxS buggy and waited while they tracked and drug my deer out. Mine and the other deer were taken back to the hunting club where we had lunch and their guys hung them up and gutted them and mine was put on the rack on the back of my SUV, I never touched her until strapping her down  8) I'll add more details if anyone wants.