Garn

[hedgerow]

So back in July walked into the Garn barn to load it with wood and fire it up and a warm moist feeling hits me in the face. Turn the light on and the Garn my wood boiler is leaking water again. I run it year around to heat my domestic water. So after draining it cleaning it I find its got a lot of issues and its coming out and probably not going to be fixed. So the question to all is do any of you have a inside boiler you like. Not wanting any OWB boilers. I understand several of you folks have them and like them. They won't work for my set up. Guess I better buy some propane. Petty sure I am not going to get something installed by winter. I sure wouldn't ever buy another Garn. 

[GRANITEstateMP]

I have a couple customers with inside type furnaces, I'll have to ask.  I think one is some kind of homemade forced hot air deal, which I'd call a woodstove but he insists its a furnace!  I think the other is a TARM with a giant thermal heat tank.

[thecfarm]

Sorry to hear of your trouble.

[hedgerow]

I have a couple customers with inside type furnaces, I'll have to ask.  I think one is some kind of homemade forced hot air deal, which I'd call a woodstove but he insists its a furnace!  I think the other is a TARM with a giant thermal heat tank.

I need a boiler, a inside type. A wood furnace won't work as I have floor heat in my shop and heat exchangers in my furnaces in my house. I think back in the day Tarm made a good boiler seems to be a fair amount of them back east. I think Tarm is some what gone and now its Froling. The Garn was set up with two thousand gallons of storage and I have another two thousand gallons of storage that I will keep and use with a new boiler if we go that way. The new EPA regulations have put some boiler company's out. Got some calls in trying to get some prices on indoor boilers. Looking a Switzer, Econburn, Polar, Vedolux and Froling. I wish I could find something used that had had some life in it. Most of the used is like mine and there shot. When your 60 some years old its hard to spend 20 to 30 K on a new system. 

[GRANITEstateMP]

When we were building our house in 08-09 we looked at the Tarm system pretty hard. There was a dealer out of the Hanover NH area that had a couple set up. Seemed like a great system, albeit one you'd want installed by someone who knows there P's and Q's!  In the end, our loan called for a heat source that wasn't dependant on wood. The duel fuel.Tarn wasn't really "great" at oil or wood, so that was out.  We couldn't swing a duel system, so the Tarm was kinda out.  We could have swung the extra $ for the unit, holding tank and extra setup costs, just not those PLUS a propane or oil system.  I do see them come up for sale every once in a while, used

[Old Greenhorn]

Well I haven't paid the dues to have much of a leg in this thread, but I sense a similar frustration to what I had when looking for a properly sized woodstove for my shop. @Spike60 recommended a company call Thermo Control near Cobleskill, NY. I never heard of them, it's a family company, all work in house. I liked their designs and simplicity as well as good clean welding work. Simple, functional, easy to maintain. I told them I was not buying anything I could not inspect myself and they put in an order to build up the model I wanted and I could come look at it. If I liked it they would load it up, and if I didn't, they could sell it to the next guy that called. It was a popular model and they moved them quickly. I went up, they gave me a tour, let me climb inside a bigger one and look at their work, answered all my questions, and I plunked down the cast and they loaded me up. Yes, 2 seasons and I am quite pleased with the stove.
 But when I originally called I was going to buy an indoor furnace (hot air) and after a bunch of questions, the owner suggested I was overbuying, because I was using it as a stove and "maybe" adding hot air circulation later. He suggested I buy it as just a woodstove and save $700. and if I wanted the hot air features later I could buy them and add them on. The stove had all the fitting integrated already. I could also configure it as a hot water unit, those fittings are already there also. Everything was configurable down the road, I liked that a lot. (Plus, they offered a cash discount  )
 They make various sizes from what I bought up to commercial sized boilers for shop sized buildings, and yes, they heat their shop with several of them.
 The caveat is that I do not believe they have approval for residential use, BUT you would need to call them and make sure I have that right, or it hasn't changed. In talking with the owner it was clear that they too are having issues with the EPA requirements squeezing them out. All I can say is they make good stuff, were great to deal with, and I am well pleased with their stove in my shop.
 Here is a LINK to their simple website, but I would call them and talk if you have an interest. Their website is not exactly cutting edge, that's not where they find their business.
 It's getting harder and harder to find equipment like this and I empathize with anyone in the search.

[hedgerow]

Thanks Old Greenhorn for the link. I had ran across them but didn't find much information about them. Not for sure if I could get by installing one of them as it would heat my shop also. There is another boiler maker in Dundee NY. Gary Switzer builds wood boilers with built in storage. I do have a call in to him. I almost bought one from him when I bought the Garn in 2009. I don't think his is EPA certified either.

[NE Woodburner]

I installed a Tarm unit in the late 80's when I built my house. Ran it for about 20 years problem free then started having chimney issues (3 flue chimney spalling bricks badly and cracking where exposed to the elements). It took me a few years to save up to have my chimney rebuilt and in the meantime I realized I didn't want to burn the Tarm any longer due to the hassle of brining wood in my basement and all the room it took away from my basement woodworking shop. The Tarm was a great unit and I burned hardly any fuel oil when I was burning the Tarm. I've been running a woodstove on my first floor ever since shutting the Tarm down. 

I want to go with an OWB to keep the wood and mess outside, but the EPA rules and the crazy state I live in severely limit the approved units that can be purchased. I checked out Switzer and liked their product, but they are not EPA compliant as of a couple of years ago when I checked. I think you would be OK installing one as a farm or business, but not residential.

It's getting nuts around here with the new rules. New homes have to be all electric and meet the stretch energy codes. I don't understand or agree with a lot of the direction we are headed...

[beenthere]

It's getting nuts around here with the new rules. New homes have to be all electric and meet the stretch energy codes.

What state is "around here" located?  Maine? Vermont? New Hampshire? MA?  Don't see a location in your profile. thanks

[Hilltop366]

I talked to a guy a few years ago that had a Froling with added storage and said it worked very well and used almost 1/2 the wood his old New Yorker boiler did. I'm not sure how much storage he had but he did say that in the winter he would make a fire every 3 days and summer 5 or 6 days.

I have always thought that some H/W solar panels would work well with a system like that for spring, summer and fall, with the right size P/V panel and a DC circulator pump it would regulate itself..... more sun = more voltage to the circulator = more water pumping.

[hedgerow]

So I have looked around at boilers and I guess the short list is Econoburn, Switzer, Froling, wood gun and some left over NOS Tarm units. Pretty much most of them other than the NOS Tarm units are going to be 20 to 25 grand by the time I get it here and do all the install work myself. Out of those any you like or really dislike. Could go with the Tarm and save some money buy how long will parts be there. Or is it time to just call burning wood done and switch back totally to propane. A wood stove in the house is not a option. House wouldn't work with a stove and the insurance company won't go for it. Being mid sixty's and the health not the greatest the pay back is not going to happen. I do have several years of wood ready to go.  

[moosehunter]

I live 30 minutes from Switzer. I have spoken with him a few times and am very impressed with his system and his knowledge. 
I bought a used unit a few years ago and dropped it off at his shop for inspection. He cut it open, welded it back shut and said it is good to go. I have stumbled on many Switzer owners over the years, a few have said they had to repair leaks, every one of those admitted to not keeping track of the PH of the water. Whatever unit you get, check the PH a couple of times a year and keep it in a safe zone. 

[hedgerow]

I live 30 minutes from Switzer. I have spoken with him a few times and am very impressed with his system and his knowledge.
I bought a used unit a few years ago and dropped it off at his shop for inspection. He cut it open, welded it back shut and said it is good to go. I have stumbled on many Switzer owners over the years, a few have said they had to repair leaks, every one of those admitted to not keeping track of the PH of the water. Whatever unit you get, check the PH a couple of times a year and keep it in a safe zone.

Thanks for the reply. I always sent water samples in twice a year on the Garn. I was very careful with the water. Lots of problems with the factory welds. It needs cut a part and rebuilt now. It would just cost too much to repair. I like Gary's boilers and wish I would have bought one in 2005 when I bought the Garn. I may end up buying one from him but shipping would be costly and I don't think I want to make the trip out there to pick it up. 

[hedgerow]

Well a quick up date on my Garn issues. For now I have put the buying another boiler on hold until next spring. Was working on a couple deals on two boilers and they didn't work out. Been busy with harvest. Called the propane folks and got my current tank filled and pre bought another 1,000 gallons that should get me to spring. See how the propane thing goes and may or not look at getting a wood boiler next spring or summer. Didn't find any factory ones that I could get right now to much to my likings. Seems like most have had there issues and all are open systems. I liked the Switzer boilers they are a closed system but he is months out on building one.