What would you guys recommend? Occasional cutting and heating. You see them at flea markets, but I'd be scared they were junk.
I've got a small set that I bought from my local welding supply shop 10 years ago.Came with a cart,small Victor torch ,tanks are no more than 2 feet tall.I use it mostly for heating and bending.
Does what I need to do.
Victor, I thought they were the only one made., Just kidding,but I would own nothing else, I have several sets, most picked up very reasonable at garage sales or other sales. Several each of the jr and journeyman heads, you will see tips and such 50 to one used over any other brand, for that reason alone it is the only torch head I would consider.
Here are my thoughts:
1. Buy a Victor.
2. The larger your budget, the happier you will be with the outcome
3. The bigger the tank, the cheaper it is to use the torch.
I've got two medium sized oxygen acetylene torch sets and one with large sized tanks .Also a couple of acetylene B bottle turbo torches which do okay for heating ,soldering but not hot enough for brazing or welding .You get a collection like this from holding your hand up too long at auctions .
We have a LP at the farm, I wouldn't be scared of one but in highschool all we had was acetylene and I do prefer that. A torch is (about :)) the last thing I need to add to my shop for now but even at auctions they sell ridiculously high around here anyway :-\.
I use Victor with a LP tip. I don't use it much any more. I moved on to plasma. Then I moved on again to 6" cut off wheels for a side grinder. That's about all I use anymore. Fast clean and cheap if you buy 100 wheels off E-bay. I use over 100 wheels a year. I'll never go back to using a torch unless it's really needed. If I need heat I use a carbon arc or induction heat.
I will admit that the plasma cutter and grinder cuttoff wheels gets a lot of duty, but they still can't take the place of a torch, when they are needed.
The only difference in an lp torch and accetylene is the tip, which is pretty cheap if you want to run off of propane, and it will handle a lot of the chores.
LP does not get quite as hot as Acetylene but for a home shop you will never know the difference except that it much more economical. The Ox portion of the setup would be the same.
I was wondering about that, as we live in the land of propane here. 20lb tanks this year were about 8 bucks
Jeff, I have a set of Victor 100's for Oxy-acytelene (bought new back in 1982), and a set of WH200 Smith's (Miller) for oxy-propane. Both sets include cutting torches and rosebuds, and the Victor set includes 4 different brazing tips.
If I could only have one set, it would be the Victor oxy-acytelene set. It is much more versatile than oxy-propane (even if acytelene costs more). My main use for the oxy-propane is heating thick metal; that's where propane really shines due to it's lower cost.
Something along the lines of a Victor Performer set may be ideal for you. It's about $280.00 online. You can buy used sets, but it costs about $50 bucks to rebuild a regulator so you may end up spending what you paid for the used set plus another hundred bucks if regulator rebuilds are required.
The small HVAC sized sets are portable and nice for soldering and silver brazing, but not as ideal for cutting due to the limited tank capacity.
You might keep your eyes open for a used set with large owner bottles.
Victor is the way to go.
The scrap yards up here use propane because its cheaper and they have no problems once you learn where the hottest part of the propane flame is.
It is not at the tip of the blue cone like acetylene but further out about another inch. A very good friend of mine (a second generation Finn) professional welder/fabricator got me onto using propane after he learnt from the scrappers while doing welding repairs to the heavy equipment at the scrapyard.
He uses propane for about 95 % of his torch work including track cutting, although he likes using
acetylene for brazing. He also uses plasma and thin cutting discs to facilitate his work
and keep the costs down (one man operation). Up here acetylene is very pricey and you lease the tanks from the supplier.
My thoughts
Al
Hmm, I'm going to have to try propane. I like the acetylene but it does get a bit expensive. I picked up a new Victor set a few years ago. My acetylene regular has gone out so I need to rebuild it. I borrowed my friend's set. WOW, nice 2-stage regulator.
Jeff, I have several sets, a set for each shop, and have gone to Oxy/Propane for cutting and heating due to cost of acetylene, I keep a full tank of acetylene around for brazing or gas welding as propane does not work for me. I have a cheap ($99.00)harbor freight cutting/welding set that I use for light (up to 3/8") work and medium Smith set and large Victor and Harris sets for heavy, with propane tips for all, the tips were reasonable online. I have been using the Harbor freight set (victor clone?) for about 10 years of Hobby farm use with good results.
I did a lot of brazing with Propane. What kind of problems was everyone having with it?
Does anyone else have a problem with squirrels chewing holes in the acetylene side of their hoses.
It happens to me once every couple of years. Very annoying. They even chewed holes in the propane torch hose I use to start my grill.
Jon
the small tanks you can buy. the larger are lease only
I have a big 50 year old Goss industrial oxy propane cutting torch set my dad had. It looks like something kbeitz would find in his junkyard. Using a barbecue tank saves some money and it is almost as hot. for heating small items in the shop I mostly use a small disposable tank bernzomatic mapp gas plumbing torch. Once I got my plasma cutter the torch sees very little use and the plasma costs basically nothing to run with no hazzardous gasses to store. :)
I have a set of Radnor an inhouse brand of Airgas. Might have been made by victor I do not know but the tips are interchangeable with victor. They have worked just fine for the kinds of things you are doing for over 25 yrs. I have had problems, popping- flame out, the last few years using it and figured it was the equipment. Turns out it is the long term storage of acetylene.
I would strongly recommend you read up about long term storage of acetylene tanks. Scary stuff! I have 2 tanks here mostly full and I'm not sure I really want them around anymore. I really cannot use them the popping and flame out make them useless as a practical matter.
Edit: I cannot find the links to what I read a few years ago about the acetone and acetylene separating in storage. What ever search term I used then brought up plenty of warnings about long term storage now I can find nothing.
I switched to propane and use it more like you are looking to do and I do very little actual welding. Haven't gas welded in yrs. as a matter of fact. It takes a different tip for propane cutting but that is what I use. Far cheaper as others have mentioned.
My 2 cents.
I always thought the barrel was different for propane and now you guys are telling me it's just the tip?
Quote from: LeeB on March 20, 2018, 09:01:46 AM
I always thought the barrel was different for propane and now you guys are telling me it's just the tip?
With my set, yes it is just the tip. They are very different.
Hmm, may have to try it. I probably do more heating than cutting anyway.
Quote from: snowstorm on March 20, 2018, 07:03:42 AM
the small tanks you can buy. the larger are lease only
Different out here. My 110 acetylene and 245 oxy are MINE!
I'm switching back to propane for cutting and heating. Propane works well for heating, cutting gives a bit more ragged cut, brazing works fine, but you can forget gas welding. I thought it was just me, but talking with a few experts, they said for some reason welding with propane just doesn't work. I got a plasma cutter for christmas, so the acetylene tank is going away...too expensive for no more than I use it, besides, plasma is nicer..
A Google search will answer most questions: converting from acetylene to propane.
Generally speaking you cannot use the #1 and #2 tips and a "T" grade hose instead of an "R" or "RM" grade hose is recommended.
OK, so I have hoses that are propane rated. I have tips from 1 to 7 or 8. MM, are you saying a #3 (which is what I normally have on) is good for propane? What about the cutting head - will it work with propane?
?? Don't know. My information came from that Google search. :P
My set has 2 different regulators also. One for propane and another if you use acetylene. Not sure it is required or something my dad added.
If you plan on welding up parts or fixing old equipment plasma is the way to go. With gouging consumables it is very easy to remove a bad weld or rivet without damaging surrounding material or remove welds from parts that you welded in the wrong place.
My purposes would be mostly for heating stuff that won't come apart, like the job I have coming up on MR. Truck. King pins. Cutting would be secondary. Gas welding, probably next to never. I have a mig/gas for that. I have a portaband and cutting wheels for side grinder that handle most cutting chores in the barn.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 20, 2018, 10:46:49 AM
OK, so I have hoses that are propane rated. I have tips from 1 to 7 or 8. MM, are you saying a #3 (which is what I normally have on) is good for propane? What about the cutting head - will it work with propane?
No a propane tip is built different, it will look nothing like the act one.
It's important to size the cutting tips and general outfit for the type of job being done to get fast and clean cuts. Yes, a 6 inch steel capable cutting torch will cut thin stuff, but it will burn a lot of gas and leave a nasty ragged edge on thinner stock. I cut mostly farm stock, 1 inch inch and less, generally, and bought a torch sized for that with the appropriate sized preheaters and main jet. It will cut 3/8 plate very clean, and it will cut a 3/4 inch nut off a bolt without leaving a slag pile. I can operate it at very low relative pressures compared to a thicker capacity torch, and save a ton of money.
I lease my bottles from the local Farm Store. That way I don't have to pay for bottle repairs and certifications, if needed.
Not all systems have flash back suppressors in them, which is an important safety item that can be installed on the hoses, at the regulators.
Sounds like MAPP gas might be a solution for heating. Use your other toys for cutting.
I have a large set of oxy/acetylene bottles that I bought 30 years ago. They came with Craftsman regulators and Victor torches that were old when I bought them. Still work well, but I had to put an "O" ring in the cutting torch. Primary duty these days is brazing cast iron and heating to bend stuff.
If I could learn to braze with my TIG I would sell them to get rid of the expense of refills. I could heat with my carbon arc torch on the stick machine.....old antique trick.
Quote from: YellowHammer on March 20, 2018, 02:04:23 PM
I lease my bottles from the local Farm Store. That way I don't have to pay for bottle repairs and certifications, if needed.
Besides my oxy/acetylene bottles I have 125cf TIG and MIG bottles. All owned by me. They always swap the bottles out instead of refilling. Never heard of having to pay for repairs or certifications. Maybe my gas price is higher to make up the difference.
I own all my bottles. They need inspected every 5 or ten years. My LP tips have tracks grooved into them not holes like acetylene
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/LP_tips.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1521573023)
Every lp tip I have ever seen has been built like that.
I own the two smaller sets of bottles .The larger set were my dads .I don't think I'll have any problem getting them filled because all three sets are AirGas .Most times they don't even check the lease dates on the large bottles just mark them cash sales .From what they told me a few years back the reason acetylene is so costly is due to the fact there are only a few huge companies in the entire world who make and control it .
Well if you don't want to pony up the bucks for acetylene, you can always get you a carbide generator. I do not even remember what I ever did with the one I had, and only know of one currently in use.
Quote from: Larry on March 20, 2018, 02:11:22 PM
Sounds like MAPP gas might be a solution for heating. Use your other toys for cutting.
I have a large set of oxy/acetylene bottles that I bought 30 years ago. They came with Craftsman regulators and Victor torches that were old when I bought them. Still work well, but I had to put an "O" ring in the cutting torch. Primary duty these days is brazing cast iron and heating to bend stuff.
If I could learn to braze with my TIG I would sell them to get rid of the expense of refills. I could heat with my carbon arc torch on the stick machine.....old antique trick.
Quote from: YellowHammer on March 20, 2018, 02:04:23 PM
I lease my bottles from the local Farm Store. That way I don't have to pay for bottle repairs and certifications, if needed.
Besides my oxy/acetylene bottles I have 125cf TIG and MIG bottles. All owned by me. They always swap the bottles out instead of refilling. Never heard of having to pay for repairs or certifications. Maybe my gas price is higher to make up the difference.
i have 2 sets also one for the shop with big bottles and two 2ft tanks if i need to put them on the 4 wheeler or side by side to fix something in the woods and i use map gas in the big tank a little more money but hotter and a cleaner burn not much slag compared to lp or acetylene you can buy them at TSC that's what i did for my mig because i was always running out after the gAS PLACE CLOSED FOR THE DAY and wanted to get the job done i think for the 2ft tanks and every thing to start cutting is only350- 450$ at TSC sorry for the capital letters wasn't going to erase and start over ;D
Quote from: Jeff on March 20, 2018, 01:13:39 PM
My purposes would be mostly for heating stuff that won't come apart, like the job I have coming up on MR. Truck. King pins. Cutting would be secondary. Gas welding, probably next to never. I have a mig/gas for that. I have a portaband and cutting wheels for side grinder that handle most cutting chores in the barn.
Jeff, because heating tips (aka rosebud's) use a lot of fuel, an oxy-propane setup would be your most economical choice for heating in terms of gas consumption.
However, you will probably find 100 used oxy-acetylene sets for every single oxy-propane setup. So it comes down to budget and time.
There is a complete, used oxy-acetylene set near you for $400.00, including tanks, regulators and torches. cutting torch - tools - by owner - sale (https://nmi.craigslist.org/tls/d/cutting-torch/6535386646.html) You may have to add a rosebud for around $100.00 new, although if you're careful you can use a cutting torch to heat in lieu of a rosebud. A few hundred bucks and you're in business, tanks and everything. You might be able to negotiate them down a bit, and it appears to have the larger capacity two stage regulators.
If you use it once a month for ten minutes at a whack, you might spend 20 bucks extra per year on acetylene versus propane.
Just something to think about.
I'm dumping acetylene this year. $280 per year for 3 tank leases (torch plus argon), and about $150 to exchange an acetylene. Anybody doing any amount of torch work around here is using oxy/propane. A 20 lb cylinder would last for years. My local scrapyard uses 22 tall ox bottles per 100 pound cylinder for cutting. There is a trick to lighting propane, basically you hold the tip against something until you have the ox dialed in, and you need a propane tip for cutting.
Propane sounds like it would work fine and is less expensive. I use the cutting torch instead of a rose bud, I have both, for heating stuck parts.
We always hit king pins (not the pin but the side of the knuckle) with a sledge, one sharp rap and they were loose.
Usually unless you get some eager beaver at the welding supply they don't even bother to look up the inspection fee on the bottles .I think in over 40 years of owning them I might have paid the charge once .
In addition to that AirGas which was AirCo has moved location at least 4 times in 40 years and their records are so mixed up they don't know who has paid nor who has not .To add to that they have absorbed or bought out just about every smaller company such as Avon and add that to the mix they don't know if they are afoot or astride .
Inspection is tough in my area...
I trade my Airgas O2 and Acetylene bottles in @ Car Quest. No one asks for paper work on the tanks or looks at certification dates. They were my Grandpa's bottles. He used to have a card in his wallet for ownership. I have no idea what became of it. They're my tanks ;D :)
I'd look for a set of used Victor torches with bottles at auction. I like acetylene. A plasma cutter is on my short list ;) ;D
Yesterday I swapped out my MIG tank at Airgas. Backed up to the loading dock and had a guy waiting to unload the empty. He had me loaded with a new one before I got inside to pay. :)
For the last few years Airgas has been charging an Hazmat fee. Yesterday it was $5 on the gas and $4 on some aluminum TIG wire I picked up. I don't quite understand the fee on argon/co2 and wire. Nother way to extort $$$$'s. >:( >:( Some of the farm places haven't picked up on this method of extortion yet.
It does pay to shop, I have other tanks from Welsco and Linweld or whatever they call themselves this week.
I rent my tanks from Maine Oxy, When their empty I just go and swap them out.
I use Acetylene,
Switched to Oxy-Propane at least 25 years ago, for cost savings and ease of tank refill. Figured if I needed acetylene I could use my brothers. Well in da 25 years since da switch, I never had ta hit up my brother. ;D
Propane will do everything acetylene will do, just takes a little longer preheat.
what does everyone use for a torch cart? A propane tank won't fit in mine in place of the acetylene bottle...
My usage of torches is about like chainsaws .It could be almost constant for a period of time but might be months of non use at certain times .As such the increase of cost for acetylene isn't a big issue .
The subject of the little tiny acetylene sets you carry around in a tote would be great for somebody engaged in the air conditioning business .The simple fact is you can't silver solder with a B bottle turbo torch .You can however use soft solder like "stay bright 8" on certain systems .It worked for me on a freon 22 system compressor change I had not done in over 40 years .--still got-er-done . ;D BTW a roll of that silver bearing solder is 45-50 bucks .
Much else that would require a greater amount of heat you don't have enough volume in the tiny tanks to do much .
Craigslist.
1. 10 minutes from the house.
2. New the guy! Older fellow retired from his own bodyshop.
3. Owner tanks.
4. Victor torches, tanks inspected and filled this pat fall.
5. Tanks still full.
6. Great visit with Floyd.
7. Torches demonstrated, work great.
8. More visiting with Floyd who is restoring a V.W. "Thing"
9. $450
10. 10 minutes back home.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/20180329_144146.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1522349787)
Your gonna wonder how you ever got along without em!
You can all guess where I got mine...
I have tanks that size, $70.00 acx $30.00 oxygen exchange
Well, if the gas is worth $100 that brings the price of the torches and cart and tank to $350.
That would be at least $140 and $40 to fill plus $180/year for tank leases here.
That size tanks are normally owned tanks ,at least in these parts .No lease payments and they are around 100 bucks to fill them .Next size up are leased tanks --at least in this locality .
I might add I have two sets of that size in the picture and one set of the larger .I haven't filled the big ones in years so I have no idea what it would cost .
The smaller tanks will last a long time under normal conditions if you don't forget to shut off the bottle valves after you are done using them .I haven't on several occasions and there you are the gas leaks out .Never trust the torch to completely shut off the gas .A word to the wise no more no less .
Congrats on the torch setup. I was taught to always shut the tanks off and bleed the hoses.
Yup. Me too.
Smith torches with "lifetime" embossed into the handle are truly lifetime warranty no matter if you got them new or used. I have sent 2 in for a rebuild, only cost shipping.
Beware, not all say lifetime on them. Be sure they do.
These are victor.
just info for other members, not directed specifically at you jeff.
Good score Jeff!
A little heat is magic! I've struggled all week trying to get a through frame leaf spring bushing and shackle off. The first thing ever that bluecreeper could not help me with. 5 minutes of heat this morning and the impact finally reeled the long nut out of the frame and off the shackle. YEA!
I've got a set of Smith torches that belonged to my Grandpa Whittaker. I while back I needed a tip and found out they were obsolete and no longer available from Smith. I called Smith and told them what I had and they were going to replace them until I told them Grandpa had passed away. The warranty is only lifetime to the original purchaser. Even when I told them it was Grandma who actually purchased them and at that time she was still alive. I've since found a place to buy those tips but haven't because they're $85.00. I need to buy one just to have it. My Smith gauges are now equipped with a Victor torch handle.
Quote from: Jeff on March 30, 2018, 11:00:33 AMA little heat is magic!
And I was not even there. Musta been a strong Southerly air flow.
did you get a rose bud with them i will never forget the time i blew my rose bud up didn't have the pressure set right wow what a bang that was a good buy the gages are 200 a piece around here i just paid 90 for a gage for my mig after a temper tantrum with a wrench
After they get so old it can sometimes becomes a challenge to find parts .Not to worry there's always flea bay .I'd say my old set of Airco torches are at least 70 years old ..I needed some larger welding tips .No problem,size 9-10 and 11, 20 bucks .Size 00 10 bucks .The double 00 was what I used to gas weld two tin cans together to show some big mouth in California I could do it 8)There's a trick to every thing .No pressure showing on the gauges .Only a slight sound of the gas,tie wire for a filler .My dear old departed dad showed me that when I was about 15 years old .He could burn a rusty nut off a bolt and never hit the threads and could still do it at 80 years old .
I worked at a diesel shop for a bit and salt water exposed npt plugs were the worst. Best torch trick i learned, that most people do wrong, is heat the bolt head direct until just shy of lava orange then quit. Soon as the color fades, hit it with the impact. This is the moment when the very expanded bolt has just given its heat to the metal surrounding it which makes the hole expand and bolt shrink for just a few seconds before they all equalize. It amazed me what could be removed with a torch.
I later worked at a junkyard and burned a whole lotta oxy/propane.
Don't stop there, quench the bolt with a hose. It'll be finger loose.