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Useful sawmill mods

Started by Bibbyman, July 25, 2004, 08:27:09 AM

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Bibbyman

We'll today I implemented what I hope is a final solution to the contact strip corrosion and contactor button wear and adjustment problem.  I just took them off!

As we have the Remote Station,  we have a cable track that carries the control cables from the station to the sawhead.  But the hydraulic pumps still require the contact strip and contactor to get power from the battery. 

We've change out more than a few contact buttons since we've got the mill and clean the strip and button quite a few times.  This change, though pretty drastic, should eliminate those maintenance problems.

I made a number of mistakes while making this mod just so you wouldn't have to. Ain't I a nice guy?



Here are the parts I started with - 100' of 1/0 welding cable, 4 tin plated aluminum lugs, and two 5/8" grommets.



The first mistake was getting way too much wire.  Rather than take the time measuring what I needed,  we had an extra control cable that went from the Remote Station to the sawhead.  I measure it at 54 feet.  I deducted 4' for the extra length the cable ran to the Remote station and to the sensor behind the head.  As I needed to double the cable,  I ordered 100 feet of 1/0 cable.



Here is what the inside of solenoid box looks like as it comes from the factory.  Every time I have to work in here I mutter a few words I wouldn't say in front of my granddaughters and loose some blood.

If you get to studying the cable on the mill,  and if it's like ours,  you'll find it has a single #1 cable running from the solenoid box to the contact button.  So why did I replace it with two 1/0 cables?  I was told to...  It has to do with losses over a distance.  Apparently the losses are much greater when dealing with lower voltage. Anyway,  the #1 cable is rated at 250 amps where the 1/0 is rated at 300 amp – then times two would be 600 amps.



I found it easier to push the cable into the bottom of the cable track with my right hand.....



While pulling and guiding the other end with my left.



The second mistake was getting the wrong cable lugs.  All the electrical supply place had was tin plated aluminum.  I got the smallest they had that would fit a 1/0 cable.  When they were stacked on the stud, there wasn't enough room for the nut to go on.  Also, there wasn't going to be enough clearance between the lug and the box cover plate.  I had to make a run back to town to get some more lugs.  The other electrical supply place I tried didn't have any lugs that would work in stock.  I ended up going to a well stocked auto parts store and getting crimp style tin plated copper lugs intended for battery cable.  Then it was back to the electrical supply place to rent their crimping tool.  (They didn't loan out the crimping tool at the auto supply place but they would have crimped them on the cables for me – if I brought the cables in.)



At this stage I could see there was no way I was going to be able to bring the cables into the box and get them on the solenoid terminal.  I solved this problem by moving the solenoid over to the left about an inch.  I just drilled one new mounting hole in the bottom.  It's only fastened on one side but as I don't expect the mill will ever have to past a 50mph crash test,  I'm not too worried.

The forth mistake wasn't as bad.  I got a 5/8 grommet I didn't need.  The 1/0 cable would slide through the hole that was already there as you will note in the picture above.  I just needed another hole.  I win one!



That comes to mistake number five – I only need to drill one hole so I bought a Buffalo brand large hole saw kit for $5. and change.  It was junk.  Maybe it would work on wood but not on metal. 



I ended up drilling an array of holes and then going back and drilling them out larger until I could break out the middle. 



I then used a stone on the electric drill to grind down the sharp edges.  I worked and most of the ugly is covered by the grommet.



Removing the old contact strip was easy. Just take out about a half dozen small screws and detach the terminals from the solenoids and work the cables out.  I lucked out again as the 1/0 cable could be forced through the grommets the old cables came out of.  (But wouldn't if the terminals were already crimped on.)



Here is the cable left over.  Looks like about 30'  What?  You never seen a red-neck cut cable before?



The only problem in the hydraulic box was that the bigger terminals rode up on a casting on the solenoid.  To get around this I used a heavy bronze washer to elevate the area around the stud.



Here is a clearer picture of the bronze washer on the stud.  I had to file a flat on the washer to get it to clear the protruding ridge on the solenoid.

I could not fit the cables into the covered duct part of the cable tray track.  I ran it along side of it and affixed a cable tie at each support.  After looking at what I'd done,  I think I'll take that part up again and re-run it through a section of plastic conduit pipe.  Again, our mill is stationary so there is no concern about it snagging as it's pulled down the road.  But someone could get carried away with a shovel cleaning out fallout from under the mill.   I piece of 1x 2 rectangular tubing would work nicely too and could easily be fastened to the other cable duct.

If you're considering making this mod,  here are a couple of other things I learned.  A well stocked welding supply store carries the welding cable and the lugs and will crimp the lugs on the cable for you.  The price I was quoted was $2.19/ft.  I got my cable from Graybar.  It cost $1.59/ft. They didn't have it in stock but had it the next day and would cut it to length. (Your electrical supply place may have it in stock.)  Other electrical supply places didn't have it in stock and would only sale 500' rolls.

The auto parts store had cable and lugs and would make up any length but the cable wasn't welding wire.  It had a stiffer plastic insulation.

My suggestion is,  figure out exactly what lengths you need and shop at your welding supply place and let them make them up for you.

What took me all day and cost about $200 should have only taken a coupe of hours and cost under $150. 



Here are the parts left over after the operation.  The patient survived!  8)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Stump Jumper

LEFT OVER WELDING cable makes nice jumper cables  ;)
Jeff
May God Bless.
WM LT 40 SuperHDD42 HP Kubota walk & ride, WM Edger, JD Skidsteer 250, Farmi winch, Bri-Mar Dump Box Trailer, Black Powder

jpgreen

Looks good Bibby.

You can take it one step further by sealing the contacts.  A proven poorman's anti-corrosion marine technique would be to spray the joint (exposed copper wire) lightly with your favorite lube such as WD-40.  Wipe of the excess.  Wrap with PVC black electrical tape, then coat the PVC tape with PVC pipe glue such as multi purpose gray that's used on all types of ABS and PVC.

A few coats drying somewhat between each will give it a professional seal... smiley_beertoast

Any contact on a trailer, truck etc., will greatly benefit from this proceedure.  Wire it once, and be done with it.  It's even impervious to salt water launchings...  ;D
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Bibbyman

Good tip JP.

I was just finishing up when a neighbor came by to pick up some white oak for a truck deck.  He works as a mechanic for a company that does power line cleaning.

He was commenting that the battery cables on the equipment kept breaking at the connection due to the extreme vibration of the chipper machines, etc.  He said he's fixed that problem by repairing the connections like this - slip a section of heat shrink tube up the cord and then solder the connector on the cable. Then slip the heat shrink tube back down over the connection and shrinks it in place.

I don't expect our stationary mill setup to see much salt water and all the factory connections are just crimped and all these connections are under cover so I think I'll be OK in this application. (I'm getting pretty old so I don't go the trouble of fixing anything to last a long time.)  I did leave at least a foot of extra cable length so I could repair the ends if need be.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Minnesota_boy

I just finished crimping ends on some cable similar to that yesterday, but I didn't have a cable crimper handy, so I used an old cross-peen hammer to make the crimp.  3 light swings and the cable was crimped tight.  ;D
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

woodbowl

Quote from: Bibbyman on January 20, 2006, 03:14:14 AM
Good tip JP.

........ cables on the equipment kept breaking at the connection due to the extreme vibration of the chipper machines.........



I've had that problem on my alternator several times and was a booger to find. The continued low batt output  was not solved with a new batt. and the alt was still putting out 13.5V. The wire comming out of the alt. had vibrated itself into and had only a few strands inside the insulation that was still connected. I taped as many wires together, and as close to the alt, It works for now. I should probably bump up to a larger size wire.

Quote from: Bibbyman on January 20, 2006, 03:14:14 AM

(I'm getting pretty old so I don't go the trouble of fixing anything to last a long time.)


Bibby, I'm not getting old ............. I just don't want to do it!   ;D
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Bibbyman

I thought I'd taken a picture yesterday of the "after" mod on the solenoid box but I hadn't.  I did today.



Here is the "as built" by Wood-Mizer.



Here is the "as modified" by Bibbyman!


I've also decided I'm going to get a section of 1x2 tubing and mount it beside the cable track return duct to run the two cables in.  The cables are just too droopy being wire tied to the cable track mounting brackets.

I sawed up 9 hickory logs today and I've very pleased with the change.  No more "hunting" for the end of the contact strip to use the hydraulic functions.  No more wishing there was another foot to the contact strip for shorter logs.  I almost feel the hydraulic functions are crisper and smoother.  You know sometimes when the contact strip and or contactor is starting to get crud on it how the hydraulic motor won't kick in?  Well,  that won't happen now.

Also,  when using the dragback,  I can saw through the last cut,  release the clamp and lower it,  the lower the head and drag back what ever is left on the mill – including the last board.  I've fund that even a big stack on the mill will slide easily on the stainless steel bad rails.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

VA-Sawyer

Now you know why I have the front battery on my mill. It has really spoiled me having hydraulic power any time I want, no matter where the head is.  It is really handy when I have a second person that knows how to run the hydraulics working with me. They can flip the cant while I gig back for the next cut, or loosen the clamp so I can flip it down as I walk by on the return.  It's kinda nice when I get about 1/2 way through the cut and realize I need to put the clamp down or lower the backstops a little more. Last fall, I blew that 225A fuse (forget just how it happened ) and had to do things the old fashioned way. Boy, was that frustrating, having to wait on the head to return to front so I would have hydraulics to do something. I didn't realize how much I took advantage of the front battery till I didn't have it for a while.  I now carry 2 spare fuses in my parts kit.  :)
VA-Sawyer

Woodwalker

Billeyman,  I would be interested in knowing what amps that motor is pulling. Do you have a clamp around amp meter and if you get a chance, amp it under load?
Thanks
Just cause your head's pointed, don't mean you are sharp.

Bibbyman

Quote from: Woodwalker on January 21, 2006, 01:04:44 AM
Billeyman,  I would be interested in knowing what amps that motor is pulling. Do you have a clamp around amp meter and if you get a chance, amp it under load?
Thanks

I think it's a bunch or maybe a little more.  Or as Brooke would say "Boonch" and for even more than a "Boonch" it be "Boonches and boonches".  :D

I don't have that kind of meter.  I should get one.  Then have someone show me how to use it.

Sparks can probably tell you what they normally pull. 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Woodwalker

Just curious to the amp draw. All my experience is with high voltage, never put an amp meter on a 12V motor.
Just cause your head's pointed, don't mean you are sharp.

VA-Sawyer

Woodwalker,
The Monarch Hydraulics ( makers of the Hydraulic pump on my Woodmizer ) have a load vs. current graph on their website for my pump. It maxes out at 200 amps @ 2000 psi. I have a 225 Amp fuse on my foward battery and it hasn't blown due to any load I've been able to put on the pump. I was suprised how linear the graph appeared. Right at 10 psi per amp throughout the pressure range.
Bibbymans' hydraulic system is heavier duty than mine. I don't know if they have a bigger pump or use two pumps like mine. Either way, his should pull about twice the current to get twice the performance.
VA-Sawyer

Bibbyman

Quote from: VA-Sawyer on January 21, 2006, 02:46:19 PM
Woodwalker,

Bibbymans' hydraulic system is heavier duty than mine. I don't know if they have a bigger pump or use two pumps like mine. Either way, his should pull about twice the current to get twice the performance.
VA-Sawyer

It's got two pumps.  I've always figured they were the same as on the Standard HD - just two of them. 

Besides being something like twice as fast, if one goes out,  you can keep going on the other.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

woodbowl

Quote from: Bibbyman on January 21, 2006, 04:54:53 PM
It's got two pumps.  I've always figured they were the same as on the Standard HD - just two of them. 

Besides being something like twice as fast, if one goes out,  you can keep going on the other.

  Hmmmmmmmm ........... Now I'm starting to think again.  Bibby, is that two pumps and one starter motor or two pumps and two starter motors? If it's twice as fast, it would seem that the same cylinders could be used on every model.  ???
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Bibbyman

Quote from: woodbowl on January 21, 2006, 07:17:15 PM
  Hmmmmmmmm ........... Now I'm starting to think again.  Bibby, is that two pumps and one starter motor or two pumps and two starter motors? If it's twice as fast, it would seem that the same cylinders could be used on every model.  ???

I don't know nothing about no starter motors.  A pump units = 1 motor + 1 pump + one tank all built into one unit. 

It looks like something that could be found under a PU frame to raise a dump bed.   Or behind a snow plow blade to raise and lower it.

I don't have a picture handy but I bet someone does.

I think the cylinders valves,etc. are the same on the standard vs. Super model.  I've never noticed any difference.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

woodbowl

Quote from: Bibbyman on January 21, 2006, 08:06:03 PM


It looks like something that could be found under a PU frame to raise a dump bed.   Or behind a snow plow blade to raise and lower it.

I don't have a picture handy but I bet someone does.





I've got one.  ;D  This is the unit on my mill that I bought from Northern hydraulics. Well .......... it's kinda' hard to see but it is under the valve banks and to the right. It is one motor, one pump and one tank.  .........   I'm trying to understand the two pump system. Does it sound like it is two of these units, side by side and feeding one common line?
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Bibbyman

Quote from: woodbowl on January 21, 2006, 08:39:17 PM


I've got one.  ;D  This is the unit on my mill that I bought from Northern hydraulics. Well .......... it's kinda' hard to see but it is under the valve banks and to the right. It is one motor, one pump and one tank.  .........   I'm trying to understand the two pump system. Does it sound like it is two of these units, side by side and feeding one common line?

Yea, just side by side like a team of horses.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

woodbowl

Quote from: Bibbyman on January 21, 2006, 08:57:02 PM

Yea, just side by side like a team of horses.


Hmmmmm ................. I've only got 47 questions to ask now. Since twice the fluid is traveling to the cylinders, I wonder if THOSE lines are larger or if the regular size will still work.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Bibbyman

A quick update on the removal of the contact strip project.

I've sawn several days with it converted and feel that the hydraulics works better. It didn't add any power or speed but there is no more hunting for the end of the strip or no more jerky motion you get if there is not a good contact.

Mary got to saw with it yesterday and today and she's pleased.  We got to were we can cut through the last cut and then loosen the clamp, drop the head a little bit and use the dragback to pull the last boards off'n the mill. Even a big stack slides easy on the SST rails.

I'd like to thank Sparks and acknowledge he was the brains behind this conversion.  I didn't let this be known right up front because I wasn't sure he'd want everyone to know that he assisted in this project.

I think you'll find that Wood-Mizer will be helpful to the owners of their mills in providing information even beyond normal service and maintenance.  I wouldn't expect them to be responsible for the outcome of such a project that alters the mill or how it operates.

Thanks again Sparks.    smiley_clapping
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

sparks

\"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.\" Abraham Lincoln

D._Frederick

Bibby,

An interesting change, I think that I would have bought a battery and a charger and set it under the tongue of your WM.  Since your mill is all electric, you would have NO problem getting 120 volt ac to the charger.

Bibbyman

Quote from: D._Frederick on January 26, 2006, 12:17:01 PM
Bibby,

An interesting change, I think that I would have bought a battery and a charger and set it under the tongue of your WM.  Since your mill is all electric, you would have NO problem getting 120 volt ac to the charger.

I think that's what ElectricAl does.  Maybe he can comment on how his is set up.

You'd still need the battery on the head to run all the head motors. 

As our mill has two hydraulic pump motors that pull quite a few amps,  it'd drain a battery pretty fast - maybe faster than a regular trickle charge chager would keep up with.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

ElectricAl

We use to use two Interstate Battery Deep Cycle batteries and a charger. We ruined those new batteries in less than 6 months. I called the tech line in Texas and they said to try the Workaholic. So, we ordered 2.  They lasted 8-9 months before the lead plates rotted out. The charger was on a timer to keep from boiling the water. Once a month we had to add distilled water and check with a hydrometer.

We saw a lot of big Oak logs and really work the pump and batteries hard.
After 5 sets of batteries we decided to switch to an AC powerpack.

We removed the factory pump and tank. Then added a 3 HP 220v pump and tank. Hoses go from the pump to the WM manifold and valves. The WM valves trigger a bypass solenoid on the pump to pressurize the the manifold. We let the pump run on bypass while we saw so we don't have to wait for the pump to get going every time a lever is pulled.

The pump is from Monark, the same supplier for the factory WM 12v DC pumps. Our AC pump flows more oil at higher pressures than the 12v DC pump.  The motor, pump, and tank assembly cost $1000 delivered, and another $100 for hoses. 12v DC power is supplied to the valve bank from a 120vAC to 12vDC converter from Radio Shack. The converter turns on when the pump is started.

The conversion took one big full day :-\





Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

customsawyer

Just a quick note to the folks that have the lubemizer on there mill I have had trouble when the top nozzel gets plug and you try to get it out to clean it and it runs into the blade guide roller. You can take a hand file and take about 8-10 strokes across the top and it will then go in and out very easily.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Dana

 If you have a Woodmizer LT-30 with a manual log turner and forgot or lost the handle you will appreciate this one. My 7 year old son Noah, came up with it. :) :) Drill a hole in the shafts where the winch handles go to accept a roll pin of the same size as your toeboard cranks. Install roll pins and you will never be without a means to use the log turner.
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

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