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thinning trees & replanting

Started by troys, October 06, 2010, 10:53:42 PM

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troys

I have 5000 black cherry, 2500 red oak, 1000 white oak & 500 black walnut that were planted in 2000, 2001 & 2002.  The trees were planted 8'x6', 8'x8', 10'x8' and 12'x12' in central Michigan.  It is now time to cull the poor quality trees, my question is.  When I cut down the unwanted trees what can I spray on the stump to kill it and not harm the tree growing next to it.  I also have some spots that need to be replanted, how long after I kill the stump do I need to waite to replant a new seedling in its place.

Ed

I would remove the tree completely instead of cutting & spraying.

Ed

customsawyer

You can spray or brush on Round up or the generic version and it will not move through the soil to the other trees. Go to a farm supply type of store for the chemical with 41% active ingre. or more. The stuff you get at the box stores is watered down to much.
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tjdub

I would not even worry about killing the ones you cut.  I don't think anything but the black walnut will have a chance at coming back from the stump in competition with other scrub brush.  The goal was to get the quality trees up above the competition, and somethings going to have grown back up by 2020 anyway.

That said, after they log a piece of state forest here, the forester contracts a company to come through plot and cut down every undesirable tree variety and paint the stump with Tordon.  This doesn't seem to hurt the surrounding trees, but then it doesn't seem to cut down on the undesirable populations much either :)

Clark

I would question the reason to totally get rid of them in the first place.  Sure you want to reduce the amount of resources those trees with undesirable form are taking from the money makers but it seems like hardwoods tend to do best with a little competition that forces them up and growing straight.

Personally I think I would cut some of the really poor form trees but not treat the stumps.  If they have enough root mass below them and that species sprouts well you could get some sprouts that result in decent form.  Maybe the surrounding trees are too big but I would think the oak would sprout back and grow well.

tjdub - What part of MN is that in?

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

tjdub


SwampDonkey

On a little small tract like that it may be desirable to be rid of the culls by spraying the stumps. But on a larger scale we don't practice herbicide application in hardwood thinning. Left tight enough with the initial thinning (6-7 feet) the resprouts are inconsequential and help the pruning process of the crop trees. Even in a stand of pole wood that was not thinned early enough you get some trees expressing dominance and over time they kill out the runts. Of course with nature you have no control over what species you want to win out and the quality of the stems isn't always the best of the crop. Of course all bets are off when a herd of moose hold up there over winter. I've seen places they will turn your little tree tops to a manure pile. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

John Mc

Quote from: customsawyer on October 08, 2010, 11:38:35 AM
You can spray or brush on Round up or the generic version and it will not move through the soil to the other trees. Go to a farm supply type of store for the chemical with 41% active ingre. or more. The stuff you get at the box stores is watered down to much.

Around here, the box stores carry the 41% and the 50% concentration in gallon jugs, as do the farm supply stores. It's the hardware stores where the concentration is typically around 2% in their "ready to use" containers. The "concentrate" the hardware stores around sell is typically only 18% that doesn't work well for cut stump on buckthorn... I assume it would also be marginal for other hardwoods.

All that said, I don't know that I'd bother with treating the cherry and oak stumps. They're not likely to sprout vigorously enough to be an adverse factor for 8-10 year old saplings, and as others have pointed out, they may actually be of help... you want the remaining trees to grow up, not out (unless you are growing these for something other than timber value).

If you are replanting, Black Walnut tends to "poison" the ground that it grows on for other trees. If the Walnut has been there a while, you may have trouble getting other things to grow in that spot ... I'm not sure how long it takes for that to fade. Another Black Walnut might do OK?? I've also heard that American Elm will grow there -- though you need to get one of the varieties that is resistant to Dutch Elm disease. Also, I'm not sure what you would do with American Elm once it's grown, other than use it as a shade tree (the market for wooded hubs for wagon wheels made from the stumps of American Elm seems to have dried up a bit lately...).

If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

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