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Hudson Oscar 28 Wheel Alignment

Started by rick42wood, May 18, 2020, 09:51:07 PM

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rick42wood

I just watched a Ut video by Cooks, it said that the bandsaw worked better if the wheels were tilted forward a bit.  The demo mill had 19" wheels and they were tilted 1/16" forward at the top.  Then I watched another Ut that said that the wheels should be towed in a little.  None of this makes sense to me.  Is it common practice?  I have been fighting with my Oscar for days trying to get it to cut properly.  I'm cutting pine and blade is diving and rising like crazy, even with a new blade.  I'm wondering if I am loosing set due to the blade tracking too far back on the wheel.  Any ideas??
Old guy, Still learning

Old Greenhorn

Welcome to the forum! Is an Oscar 28 the same as a 328? I have a 328 and there is no way to 'tilt' the wheels. I just spent a good part of my weekend aligning my wheels because there were no adjustment screws on the idler wheel. SO I took the time to tap out the holes and install the screws, which made it much easier. Cuts great now.
 I can't see how tilting the wheels is going to do anything but make it worse, actually. 
 Start with the basics. What blade profile are you using? This is the most common culprit?
 I left a post on the HM126 thread this morning that has a troubleshooting list to get you going. Some of the guys here that build sawmills will likely joining in with better details, but I just have a hunch you are maybe following the wrong track, pardon the pun. With the many dozens of cutting issues I have followed here, not once has tilting or toeing the band wheels come up as a solution. Tell us a bit more about where you are and how long you have had the mill and perhaps some better ideas will be offered up. There is a vast amount of knowledge available to you here. Have you done some searches here about your issue? That might help.
 Best of luck.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

rick42wood

i'm not sure if it is equivalent to a 328. I have had it for about 8 years.  It is a starter mill for sure.  I recently up-graded it to a 10Hp electric start from the original 8Hp.  It's a pain because if you have to change the drive belt you have to take the pillow block on one side off, so there goes the alignment.There are no adjustment screws for alignment, you have to just loosen the pillow block bolts and tap it to move the wheel.  I have never been satisfied with the quality of cut.  If I align everything and use a new blade it cuts OK for a while then I start having issues.  When the blades I have are used up I'm going to try something different and I am looking into setters and sharpeners.  I am in BC, Canada
Old guy, Still learning

KenMac

Quote from: rick42wood on May 18, 2020, 09:51:07 PM
I just watched a Ut video by Cooks, it said that the bandsaw worked better if the wheels were tilted forward a bit.  The demo mill had 19" wheels and they were tilted 1/16" forward at the top.  Then I watched another Ut that said that the wheels should be towed in a little.  None of this makes sense to me.  Is it common practice?  I have been fighting with my Oscar for days trying to get it to cut properly.  I'm cutting pine and blade is diving and rising like crazy, even with a new blade.  I'm wondering if I am loosing set due to the blade tracking too far back on the wheel.  Any ideas??
The rest of the story from Cook's is that the guide rollers put the blade parallel to the bed of the mill and lower the blade about a quarter inch, so the blade is not tilted as it enters the cut. I don't understand the tilted wheels either, but they say they found that out through years of experience on their mills. It may or may not apply to every mill. Good luck figuring out your solution.
Cook's AC3667t, Cat Claw sharpener, Dual tooth setter, and Band Roller, Kubota B26 TLB, Takeuchi TB260C

redbeard

Just went through a realignment on our Hudson 60.
What works best is too track your blade so back of blade runs a 1/8" over back of band wheels.
The adjustment is moving the pillow block bearings left to right.
It's a bit tedious but once you get it tracked right you won't have too mess with it til you change your band wheel belts.
"Note" (tighten those bolts super tight when you get it tracked right.)
Blade tension can move them.
On the 60 you have too take bolts out of outboard pillow block berrings and let wheels tilt forward so you can slide new belts on.
If your guides are the shoe type sandwich blocks it's important too get those barley touching a fully tensioned blade evenly top and bottom.
The berrings that is for the back of blade
Should be just far enough away too keep the set in teeth from rubbing in the blocks. You don't want back of blade spinning the berrings it's just too keep it from going too far back.
If it is your blade is dull or your pushing blade too fast.
Don't let your blocks wear so much that it wears the heads off the mounting screws.
Replace as soon as they wear close.
It's a expendable part just like the belts on wheels.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

rick42wood

Sorry, I'm a bit thick.  If you move the wheels in or out and align them with each other isn't the blade still going to track in the same place?  Or are you saying you just move one wheel?  If so, is it still parallel with the other wheel but not in direct alignment?  I have bearing type blade guides not blocks and I think they are in the right place, only touching slightly when the blade is cutting.  Mine is the same problem, when you have to change the drive belt you have to unbolt the pillow blocks and there goes the alignment.  PITA
Thanks everyone for the responses.
Old guy, Still learning

Old Greenhorn

I don't think you are 'thick' this is more complex than what meets the eye. I did quite a bit of millwright work in a previous life, and this is much more complicated than it seems, but once you have a picture in your head, it is quite simple. You have to understand the geometric relationships and that is not so simple as it might seem at first. Lets back up a bit. 
 On your mill are is there a bolt in front of each pillow block that can 'push' the block? If there is no bolt, can you see a welded nut to accept a bolt (probably 3/8-16)? Answer that question first, it is important. With no fine control of the bearing block location you are tilting at windmills.
 Having the faces of the band pulleys parallel and even are important, BUT you also have to have them working together to track the blade properly. This is very similar (actually exactly the same) as getting the belt to track correctly on a belt sander. Those sanders have a screw adjustment to align one pulley and as you adjust it with the machine running you can move the belt back and forth, right? Same thing with a sawmill blade.
 I just went through this process on my Oscar 328 last week. The two adjusting screws on the idler pulley were missing (I don't know why) so I took the time to clean out the welded nuts and put screws in. (the ones on the drive side have always been there so when I change the belt I set it back against those screws and it has always been good to go. I reset the blocks and got it close with he string across the pulley method. The blade tracked in the center of the drive pulley but was tracking too far back on the idler. I did this by pulling the pulley with a lightly tensioned blade over by hand in the normal direction of cut. I had the pillow block bolts snug, but not tight. I used one adjusting screw to make changes and I found that as little of on 8th of a turn would make a difference in where the blade tracked on the idler. An 8th of a turn translates into about .008" of movement of the pillow block and it made a difference. That is not much. Trying to do that by hand loosening and moving is impossible. The string only gets you close to a starting point. You need the control the screws provide.
 If you could post some photos of the pillow block arrangement on your mill that could be a big help. If you post yours, I will go out and take photos of mine in case that would help. Stick with it and you will get it.
Tom
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

rick42wood

Thanks for the info.  I went back out to-day, re-aligned the wheels with a string, realigned the clutch pulley with the drive wheel, sadly, there are no adjusting bolts or nuts on either wheels pulley blocks.  So its tighten, whack, check, loosen, whack, check.  I got everything lined up, put a new blade on.  It tracks so that the back edge of the blade is dead even with the back edge of the wheels.  I assume that's where it should be?  I didn't try cutting anything, I'll leave that for tomorrow so I can sleep to-night.
Old guy, Still learning

Old Greenhorn

Well that could not have been fun! I gave up on that method after a 1/2 hour chasing my tail and put the bolts in.  I just can't believe they aren't there. You could of course weld a few nuts in there for the next time. Sounds like you are in good shape now. The band should be on the drive wheels such that the teeth do not ride on the wheel but at just ahead of it.
 Go make some lumber!
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Woodpecker52

I run mine by lining up the back of blade with the back of the idle  wheel by feel, and on the drive wheel by the back of blade on  front of middle V slot. Teeth are in front about 1/4 inch.  Then adjust rollers where is back of blade is about 1/8 off back of rollers.  I never had a wavy cut yet.
Woodmizer LT-15, Ross Pony #1 planner, Ford 2600 tractor, Stihl chainsaws, Kubota rtv900 Kubota L3830F tractor

never finished

 Make sure that your belt powering the pulley is tight. If not the cut will be wavy. My blade rides a little farther back than what the rest were saying but not enough to mess with the set. Oscar 36 no adjusting bolts. 

never finished

 I forgot to say I line mine up with a string.

Hilltop366

Generally it is the same as a woodworking bandsaw, once the drive wheel is aligned with the engine pulley then the idle wheel is set coplanar with the drive wheel, then you should only have to move the idle side a bit to fine tune the tracking.

If you can set up a adjusting bolt that pushes against the band blade tension you can fine tune the tracking by either tightening the bolt and pushing the bearing or loosening the bolt and let the blade tension pull it back the other way. 

It is my understanding that Cooks recommend the bandwheels slightly tilted forward to apply a bit of downward pressure to the front side of the blade on the roller guides to help it resist drifting upwards. Same idea as downward pressure on the roller guides only on the horizontal. 

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