salvaged barn timbers

[flp]

Hi everyone,

I'm building an open air post and beam pavilion, 12x16 with a gable roof and a 10' or 12' shed roof extension off one side. I was browsing craigslist the other day and saw an ad for old barn timbers, I hadn't thought of recycling old wood but I really like the idea and now I'm seriously considering using salvaged oak timbers, but have no experience. I would appreciate any advice folks have in this area. I went and looked at one batch that was stickered outside in the snow, the wood looked ok, some was punky but most was ok, and was quoted $15/foot. This seems really expensive, especially since it was outside in the weather. Although he offered to deliver them, which is about 30 miles. The seller also offered to mill them down on all sides, but I'm not sure if I want to do that or not.

What should I look for in old barn timbers?

[shinnlinger]

flp,

If you want old hand hewn timbers you will pay 15-20 bucks a foot.  OLd timbers are premium for sure despite the rot.  Usually they inject epoxy in the questionable areas but it can be dicey. 

If you want a timbers for a post and beam timberframe I would suggest going up to the sawmill section and find a guy from here to mill them up.   They will cost you alot less than those old babies and you won't have to worry about rot


What part of the country are you in?

Dave

[beenthere]

flp  welcome to the forum

Check out some of the previous threads in this forum, and one of members (Rooster) may have some good words for you to follow.

[Brad_bb]

Welcome.  I've bought reclaim.  Even with a little twist or bow you can still timberframe them with proper layout technique, especially it being an open structure. The straighter, the easier the layout though.  For outdoor, I'd prefer white oak as it will be the most native rot resistant at reasonable cost.  You first need to know how to calculate Board Feet.  It's pretty easy.  I prefer to calculate volume in cubic inches and divide by 144  (a board foot is 12 in X 12 in X 1in=144 cu inches).  You should keep the cost to 1.80/BF or less.  If you scrounge, you can find what you need likely.  You also need to find the proper overall sizes you need too, be it 6X6 or whatever.  With square rule layout method, you can have timbers of varying cross sectional dimensions and still have them work together properly.  FYI, the lowest I ever paid for reclaim was .26/BF for white pine 8x8 and 8x10, not delivered.  I found a great deal on hardwood 10X10 for .90/BF delivered.  These were great deals, but 1.80-2.00 is still good.  When you see 3.50 or 5.00, well that's out of my price range.  I've seen it, but I don't know who's paying it for sawn reclaim.

[ballen]

Brad,
How much would you adjust your numbers for old hand hewn in good shape?

[Brad_bb]

That's a different animal entirely.  People usually know that it is much more valuable in the market place for aesthetics.  Probably 3.50 and up.  I may have a couple hewn sticks in my house frame, but I would make them myself.  It's real work, but I think could be a rewarding experience.  I wouldn't want to try to do a whole frame that way though. 

[flp]

Thanks guys for the replies. I just looked up older posts on reclaim and found some good advice too, guess I didn't look back far enough before. The stuff I looked at was hand hewn white oak, 15$/ft. I need 120 linear feet, which ends up at $1,800! Clearly way too much, when I can get new stuff for 1/3rd the price. I'm planning on building post and beam, with metal brackets and lag bolts. Do you guys think it's disgraceful to use metal fasteners on old traditional timbers? Just wondering, it looks like I will probably just get timbers from a local mill because of the price difference, I don't really have the time to scrounge for the perfect deal on reclaimed material.

Also, the guy selling the oak timbers had milled yellow poplar timbers that looked to be in good shape. Is it wise to use poplar in an open air pavilion where they will be exposed to driven rain? I'm raising the posts from the concrete foundation with post standoff bases, but still...

[beenthere]

...........
Also, the guy selling the oak timbers had milled yellow poplar timbers that looked to be in good shape. Is it wise to use poplar in an open air pavilion where they will be exposed to driven rain? I'm raising the posts from the concrete foundation with post standoff bases, but still...

Any wood in the open exposed to rain will have a shorter life span. Yellow poplar shorter than white oak.

How long do you want it to last?

[Rooster]

Hey there,

Welcome to the forum!

I have been reading all the posts on this thread and I think I might have another option.

If you were to buy some used utility poles (treated Southern yellow pine), and then have them milled into beams, you could use them for your open air pavilion without worrying about the effects of rain/ moisture.  They can be purchased for a reasonable price.  The poles mill nicely, and can be easily bolted together.  And by using used poles, it is similar to using reclaimed timbers, but with important advantages.

You can locate used poles by using searchtempest.com   which is a website that searches multiple craigslist communities close to your location.

Here is a link to a hidden fastening system that will help eliminate the need for connecting plates.

http://www.tfguild.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=3718&Number=23516#Post23516

Let me know if you have any questions...and good luck with  your project.

Rooster

[Brad_bb]

Post and beam is not sacrilegious, but another style.  I would personally not prefer it for an outside structure as you are more exposed to the elements and of course the steel would rust faster.  I'd prefer actual timberframe for this type of project.  It's often a misconception that Post and Beam is faster or cheaper or requires less skill or time, but we often beg to differ here.  The cost and time of making the brackets is often left out of the equation.  And if you want to do it well, measurements must not be left haphazard, but must be as precise as you would in a timber frame.  A beginner can do it themselves with a little  help with layout and learning the basic skills. 

Rooster, how much metal is in those utility poles?  Staples and what not. Maybe you only mill from a certain height up?  Otherwise have to scan well for metal.   I know in Indiana they have a lot of Hickory telephone poles too. 

[pineywoods]

Rooster, I'd stay away from utility poles unless they can be used as-is without sawing. They eat saw blades for lunch and the sawdust is highly toxic. I let myself get talked into sawing some, never again. Besides that, it really isn't as good a deal as it seems. The treatment only goes a few inches into the pole. Lumber from the inner part will rot just like untreated lumber.

[Rooster]

Well guys,

I don't want to scare FLP from using treated poles.  It makes sense that different types of poles are found throughout the country.  And I am guessing that FLP is from somewhere in Kentucky, where he should be able to get SYP treated poles. 

I live in Southern WI, and my sawyer is Stumpy from this forum.  He cuts a lot of power poles, uses a metal detector, and disposes of the dust and slabs.  He has cut 8x8x16ft sill beams for me out of the treated SYP poles, and they have been treated the entire length, through to the pith.  The SYP makes a quality product, and I have used them for outdoor exposed lean-to porches.  I agree that you need to take precautions with the dust (don't rub your nose or eyes), but with some simple personal protection, you can make some beautiful structures.  And in regards to the poles being hard on blades, I guess I would let Stumpy address that issue.

I tell people that the world will come to an end before these poles will rot!  Haha!  In fact, Stumpy found a pole that was recently removed and replaced with a new pole.  The tag was still nailed to the bottom of the pole. When the tag was removed from the cut end, which was in the ground, you could see the outline from the area that was covered. There was less than 1/4in of rot.  This doesn't seem like much until you concider that the pole was put into the ground in 1928. ;)

Rooster

[shinnlinger]

FP,

IMO an outdoor pavilion is the ideal starter timber frame.  Skip the steel which get expensive real quick and If your joints are a little sloppy who cares on something like that?  Read what you can or even better take a workshop and have at it. 

Dave