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Author Topic: Second guessing woodmizer order  (Read 3326 times)

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Offline Busysawyer

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Second guessing woodmizer order
« on: April 26, 2018, 09:47:03 PM »
I want to start by saying that woodmizer has been a great company to deal with so far. Originally we intended to buy a timber king 2200 or 2500 but when I found out they were at least four months out on delivery I didn't want to wait that long. I am really excited about getting our lt70 super wide head which now has a delivery set for May 23. I'm worried that a 46hp diesel is too small for a wide head 70 with hydraulic bed functions. Do any of you think this mill will be underpowered? Also a little disappointed that I recently found out that the mill is limited to 6ft extension. I called the other day to order an extension and was told 6ft is the max. I was under the impression from the website that I could get a bigger extension. It shows log capacity of 36" x 44.2'. To me it looks like misrepresentation of the product but maybe I'm reading wrong.  Another small disappointment  is when the mill was ordered I was told end of April first week of May for delivery and they are a couple weeks behind. No big deal , was just excited to be getting the mill soon and will have to tough it out for a couple more weeks. I am posting a screenshot from the build a lt70 off of woodmizer website and was wondering how you guys interpret the log capacity?

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Offline Jeff

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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2018, 09:58:19 PM »
And why might I ask are you not picking up the phone and asking Wood-Mizer?
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Offline Busysawyer

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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2018, 10:05:00 PM »
And why might I ask are you not picking up the phone and asking Wood-Mizer?
Im confused i guess. Asking woodmizer what? I've already asked them every possible question I could think of. I'm curious as if I'm the only consumer that is misunderstanding the capacity advertisements or if the guys here think a 46 hp is underpowered on this mill.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2018, 10:06:20 PM »
That isn't what I found.

LT70 Super Hydraulic Portable Sawmill

Our fastest portable sawmill with deluxe engine-powered hydraulic log handling and head controls, pedestal control station, advanced board return, debarker, diesel power, 36 log diameter, 202 log length, and production up to 1050 bf/hr.



 
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Offline Busysawyer

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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2018, 10:17:45 PM »
That isn't what I found.

LT70 Super Hydraulic Portable Sawmill

Our fastest portable sawmill with deluxe engine-powered hydraulic log handling and head controls, pedestal control station, advanced board return, debarker, diesel power, 36 log diameter, 202 log length, and production up to 1050 bf/hr.


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Click build and price. I assumed the 20'2" was without extensions and when you go to build and price the first screen is showing the 44 so I improperly assumed that you could put an extension on to get that. It was explained to me why they cannot extend this mill like the others and it makes sense. I was just a little disappointed when I went to purchase an extension that I couldn't get what I wanted.  Another clue I should have picked up on is later in the build and price menus it shows options available. Transfer deck, incline conveyor etc. And lists a 6ft extension as an option. Me being ignorant and new to mills just saw that 44.2 number and assumed you could run big extensions like most woodmizer mills. It's not a deal breaker for me by any means , just naturally disappointed to find out I can't get what I thought I could. 
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Offline gmmills

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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2018, 10:26:17 PM »
    Compared to my LT 70 DCS with a 55HP  Yanmar engine the 46 HP engine on the new LT70 Super Hydraulic is quite a step down in performance. I am due to upgrade to a new mill next year. Hoping WM will upgrade to a higher HP engine in the near future. Been hearing rumors, not yet confirmed, that there may be a new tier 4 compliant 55 HP engine offered some time this year. Hopefully Marty Parsons may be able to shed some light on the subject.

   The limitation of bed extension length is due to the fact the hyd lines are routed through a cat track chain. Would have to run longer hyd lines and additional sections of cat track to accommodate a longer bed extension
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2018, 10:27:45 PM »
Beaver,

   Definitely call WM. As to the extensions when I go to the site I see they advertise 6', 12' & 24' extensions for everything from the LT28 to the LT70. Why do you think you can only get a 6' extension? How long a log do you expect to cut and do you have the support equipment to handle extremely long logs, beams and boards? From previous posts I thought you were pretty well set up.

   As to the engine size what size and species logs do you expect to cut? I'd bet money you will find you have plenty of power for what you will be cutting. 

   I think you are underestimating WM level of patience when dealing with their customers. Go ahead and ask away.
Howard Green
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Offline SawyerTed

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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2018, 10:33:26 PM »
The 46 hp diesel should have no problem operating the the hydraulics.  Woodmizer doesn't have a reputation for under powering and over selling.  I started looking at the LT15 and my dealer was candid about my expectations and whether the LT15 would meet them.  It wasn't a sells tactic, it was honesty about the realistic capacity of the machine.  

The website says 6', 12' or 24' bed extensions are available, have you asked about that? 

Woodmizer has great customer service, aftermarket support and great quality.  It will be worth the wait.
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Offline Busysawyer

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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2018, 10:37:46 PM »
   Compared to my LT 70 DCS with a 55HP  Yanmar engine the 46 HP engine on the new LT70 Super Hydraulic is quite a step down in performance. I am due to upgrade to a new mill next year. Hoping WM will upgrade to a higher HP engine in the near future. Been hearing rumors, not yet confirmed, that there may be a new tier 4 compliant 55 HP engine offered some time this year. Hopefully Marty Parsons may be able to shed some light on the subject.

   The limitation of bed extension length is due to the fact the hyd lines are routed through a cat track chain. Would have to run longer hyd lines and additional sections of cat track to accommodate a longer bed extension

That is what they told me regarding extensions. I was also told that they will be going back to the 55hp sometime later this year.  The salesman didn't want me to get upset when I see a 55hp available in 6 months.


Beaver,

   Definitely call WM. As to the extensions when I go to the site I see they advertise 6', 12' & 24' extensions for everything from the LT28 to the LT70. Why do you think you can only get a 6' extension? How long a log do you expect to cut and do you have the support equipment to handle extremely long logs, beams and boards? From previous posts I thought you were pretty well set up.

   As to the engine size what size and species logs do you expect to cut? I'd bet money you will find you have plenty of power for what you will be cutting.

   I think you are underestimating WM level of patience when dealing with their customers. Go ahead and ask away.


I'm not sure if I would ever need the extension but after discussing it with my dad off and on for a couple weeks we decided to go for it. It days in the brochure that pricing on the extensions was for with a new mill purchase and we thought we would save money ordering it now as opposed to later. Most of what we will be milling is red oak, walnut, white oak and cherry. The first year or so I'd imagine we will be milling our own trees and most of them will be over 36in diameter. The lt70 that was at the mill I visited was running a 61hp turbo caterpillar I believe and that thing was fast.  

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Offline Southside

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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2018, 10:45:21 PM »
It is my understanding that they are testing several different engines and have yet to decide on what one will be used moving ahead.  A couple of weeks back I was told 120 days before anything would be announced.  
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Offline Busysawyer

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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2018, 10:50:04 PM »
The 46 hp diesel should have no problem operating the the hydraulics.  Woodmizer doesn't have a reputation for under powering and over selling.  I started looking at the LT15 and my dealer was candid about my expectations and whether the LT15 would meet them.  It wasn't a sells tactic, it was honesty about the realistic capacity of the machine.  

The website says 6', 12' or 24' bed extensions are available, have you asked about that?

Woodmizer has great customer service, aftermarket support and great quality.  It will be worth the wait.
Yes I have asked about why it shows 44.2' and why they show the extensions available in different lengths. As gmmills stated they can't run an extension on the cat track or hydraulics.  If you look at the design it makes sense why large extensions won't work. I'm not too concerned with the extension I guess.  I was mainly posting this to see if I was the only one misunderstanding the lt70 capacities and what guys thought of the 46hp. I'm sure the mill will cut just fine with the 46 just wondering how much of a difference people thought it would make. Woodmizer told me that it is not a noticeable difference in cutting speed.  They said they have timed the 46hp and 55hp and they are really close. 
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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2018, 10:52:32 PM »
It is my understanding that they are testing several different engines and have yet to decide on what one will be used moving ahead.  A couple of weeks back I was told 120 days before anything would be announced.  
I was told that they had a 55hp tier 4 approved but it would take the manufacture of the engine 120 days to start getting them to wm.  I see the 120 days is consistent with what I was told. 
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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2018, 11:18:28 PM »
4x4 has the 55hp tier 3 motor on his Super 70 Wide and he has mentioned that he would not want any less, that is all I know about the comparison.  Personally I am waiting to see what they do before I pull the trigger.  I am not convinced that having a tier 4 engine in a sawmill production area is a good idea, so for me it's not just the HP I want to see, it's the whole re-gen issue that I have serious reservations about.  

I have contemplated seeing if WM would sell me a 70 without an engine and I will power it, guess we will know in a couple of months.  
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Offline DPatton

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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2018, 12:35:44 AM »
So my question to you is if you are looking at a Lt 70 and willing to spend that type of money why arent you comparing it to a TimberKing 2500? The 2500 offers a 59 hp Kubota with longer bed extensions capabilities. Sounds like your wait time turned out to be similar between the two mills. Just saying sounds like someone promised you something they arent exactly delivering on..... 
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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2018, 08:55:03 AM »
So my question to you is if you are looking at a Lt 70 and willing to spend that type of money why arent you comparing it to a TimberKing 2500? The 2500 offers a 59 hp Kubota with longer bed extensions capabilities. Sounds like your wait time turned out to be similar between the two mills. Just saying sounds like someone promised you something they arent exactly delivering on.....
That is what we were comparing to.  The 2500 actually cost more than the lt70 wide by the time you add debarker and board drag back. Also woodmizer is less than half the wait to get the mill once ordered. 2 months  vs 4 months.  I feel bad for Bob the TK sales guy, it's got to be hard to sell a mill when you can't deliver for over 4 months. I don't understand how anyone can run a business with that lead time. Seems to me the TK is a popular, well built mill. Why aren't they matching production to demand. Seems like hiring a few more guys and expanding operations is in order. Or running another shift. There are a couple things I like about the woodmizer that the tk doesn't offer like factory laser and the big one for me is no remote operating station with joystick controls. I have operated both lever hydraulic machinery and joystick and once I ran joystick I would  have a hard time pulling a bunch of levers all day.  I can tell you that if tk had comparable delivery times to woodmizer I would be waiting for delivery of a tk 2500 right now.  I think they are both great mills . 
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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2018, 08:59:27 AM »
I don't know that I am reading about any promises made or broken but I am reading about some assumptions that were made.  

All manufacturers are under the same EPA guidelines.  The only ones that have mills with Tier3 engines available are those that the frames were serial numbered during previous years.  When those are sold the playing field will again be level regarding engines. 
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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2018, 09:19:18 AM »
I don't know that I am reading about any promises made or broken but I am reading about some assumptions that were made.  

All manufacturers are under the same EPA guidelines.  The only ones that have mills with Tier3 engines available are those that the frames were serial numbered during previous years.  When those are sold the playing field will again be level regarding engines.
I don't feel any promises were broken. I wasn't promised anything.  As far as delivery i was told about 6 weeks, could be a little less could be a little more. I did make some assumptions that lead to a small amount of disappointment.  Granted those assumptions were based on misleading information on woodmizer website. Judging from what is posted here I'm not the only one to make those assumptions based on woodmizer advertisement of the mill. It seems that woodmizer should have correct information on their flagship mill. I think that information should be corrected and the 36" x 44.2' should be changed to show the actual capacity the mill is capable of with the only available extension. As far as I'm concerned it should read something like 36" x 26'2" or whatever the true capabilities are. If you look at the lt50 it shows available up to 45' would it be wrong to assume a lt50 could be extended to 45'?
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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2018, 09:39:39 AM »
True in a sense, but I see the "build a mill" as a gee whiz late night lounge chair thing to get a general idea what is available, but even then the 6' extension is the only one listed as an actual option.   A conversation with a salesperson clarifies and defines that options are presently adaptable on the current models being manufactured.  Yes, I have seen a 20' extension on an older LT70.
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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2018, 09:56:08 AM »
True in a sense, but I see the "build a mill" as a gee whiz late night lounge chair thing to get a general idea what is available, but even then the 6' extension is the only one listed as an actual option.   A conversation with a salesperson clarifies and defines that options are presently adaptable on the current models being manufactured.  Yes, I have seen a 20' extension on an older LT70.
I agree 100%. The build and price is just to get a feel for what's available.  I made the mistake of not being thorough with my questions to my sales person. I had researched for months, taken pages of notes and made a list if questions.  I thought I was covering all bases. I'm not upset with Woodmizer in the least. They have been great to deal with.  I have called them At least 20 times with questions about the mill, edger, cant hooks, blade choices, mill covers etc. Very happy with the service provided
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Offline Will_Johnson

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Re: Second guessing woodmizer order
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2018, 10:19:50 AM »
I don't understand how anyone can run a business with that lead time. Seems to me the TK is a popular, well built mill. Why aren't they matching production to demand. Seems like hiring a few more guys and expanding operations is in order. Or running another shift.
We're fortunate to have strong demand for our mills, and we're grateful for folks who are willing to wait. We feel a TimberKing mill is well worth it!

While we'd love to increase production, we're unwilling to do that if it will in any way impinge on our quality. And while it sounds easy enough to "hire a few more guys," that's not what's required. What's required is that we hire a few more quality guys, get them the training and experience they need to put out a product worthy of our name.

If ever we have to make a choice between losing a sale or rushing a machine out the door we will, with regret, let the sale go. With all due respect, that's how you run a business that stays in business for the long haul.

On engines, this is the last year that companies can put Tier 3 "Flex" engines on machines. We're beginning to make the transition to Tier 4, but we have a few Tier 3 engines still available, including the 59HP on the 2500 mill. Worth noting that while a 2500 with debarker and drag-back does end up costing a bit more than the LT70, it comes with the larger engine, dual log turners, dual log clamps and standard 37" width of cut and 24' cut length. So, to be fair, it's not quite an apples to apple comparison.


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