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Author Topic: Concern regarding reforestation program  (Read 2238 times)

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Online Old Greenhorn

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2021, 08:56:37 AM »
As temperatures rise and drought intensifies, fires grow larger and burn more severely. What happens to the landscape next is unknown.  It's about Arizona and the millions of homeless and deceased animals who have lost their Trees of Life and their Forests of Life.  That's todays headline.   I realize most people on this forum are selling equipment to turn trees into something else. but with the thousands of members who log on.  couldn't the moderators lead a team of volunteers to help accelerate the reforesting. Not for plantations.  But for life.  Arizona and California, could really use the help. It's heart breaking and deviating here.  Hello Ontario?!  And please indict the people who  have decimated the monarch butterfly habitats!
When I read your post last night I did not have the energy and was not in the right frame of mind to respond. however today is a new day. ;D
Not knowing anything about you that would indicate your perspective, experience, involvement, level of knowledge, or anything else that could help direct a meaningful response, I went and looked at your profile information. All I could glean  from that is that you have been registered here for about 10 months, made only 2 posts, spent just 4 hours total in that 10 months reading other posts here, and are not quite able to make up your mind where you live. I also note that you do not engage in meaningful conversation regarding your posts, which is considered rude in the forum world. (Some might label you as a troll, but I am not ready to go that far yet. That depends on your next step.)
So all I am left with is that little bit of knowledge and your post. You have already gotten some thoughtful replies from other members here which are worth putting in some time to understand.
First, let me correct an assumption you wrote:" I realize most people on this forum are selling equipment to turn trees into something else."
Whereas we do not (that I know of) have a definitive demographic study of our membership, I think by just reading where the many many thousands of posts and discussions here focus will clearly indicate equipment sales is not what MOST of us do. Most of us are working to make a living and learning new things or getting help getting through our jobs from other like minded people with a vast array of experience to draw from. This forum was originally founded for sawyers, producers of lumber and has grown from there.
The overall tone of your note indicates you think 'we' are the problem and 'we' should organize and 'do something'. I don't think you have done much meaningful reading here at all if you have not seen the extensive posts and threads on habitat restoration, field regeneration, maintaining and restoring healthy tree growth, TSI work and forest health improvements, and reclaiming poorly managed lands for better habitat (for ALL species) while at the same time following a well designed plan to serve the needs of the landowner, wildlife, and the health of the natural lands in our care. In short I think, as Swampdonkey alluded to, you are just throwing out a bunch of assumptions and challenging folks to "mend their ways and do something."
Turnabout is fair play so I would like to ask you what YOU have been doing to make a difference with this problem? Tell us what you do, how you do it, where you do it, and what results you have seen. If you want to 'make a difference' it has to start with you. There are no excuses, you have to 'walk the walk' before you can 'talk the talk'. An old folk singer I had known for decades used to have a saying I stole from him when I was a teenager and have used in my daily life ever since. He said "Think globally, act locally". The man was an environmental activist of the highest caliber who gave his entire life to supporting and working with his hands toward the movements who held so dear. (His name was Pete Seeger.) I knew Pete well enough to know he would listen to what you have said and his first question would be "So what are YOU doing about it?"
I'd like to ask you the same question.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
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Offline Tacotodd

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2021, 06:42:18 PM »
BRAVO Tom, Bravo!
Trying harder everyday.

Online Old Greenhorn

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2021, 09:20:36 AM »
I could have sworn there was another reply here I read early this morning or last night and came back to read again and reply. Now it appears to be gone. Am I imagining things? Maybe I should check my meds, oh wait, I don't take any meds. ;D 
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Offline btulloh

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2021, 09:23:59 AM »
Its gone now. Only the NSA could have made it disappear like that. 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2021, 09:51:24 AM »
This is a forum full of eco-activists, we all are really.  Hang around and youll see that most of us prefer the woods and the natural world far more than the mass produced particle board and pavement mess that wall street and washington lobbying have led us into.


Where this crowd differs from the eco-warrior is we are people who value innocent human life above plant and animal life.  "We" collectively have actually gone into the woods for generations...modified and observed it for changes toward its betterment. I take my 8yr old for walks in our experiments woods all the time.  


The forestry profession has realized that humans, plants and animals can all reap abundance if forests are managed for continual vigorous regrowth of the best suited species mix for a given site. We work with nature rather than against it to maximize growth rates and reap bountiful harvests.  

If forests stay in this rotation there is always suitable habitat available for the critters, from fresh regen to mature closed canopy.  Species dont have to migrate very far in search of replacement habitat when harvest operations occur, if large forests are kept in productive rotation.

When privately owned forests are mismanaged, they stop producing a cash crop and economics usually cause them to be subdivided into residential space and sold.  That is permanent habitat loss.


rather than saying "dont touch,  mother nature or gaia knows best" like other forest enthusiats believe, we modify forests ahead of her schedule.   Mother natures management plan is precisely what youre seeing;  pests weakening trees and then huge, catostrophic fires clearing them out to make way for replacement with different species better suited to the site.  

Mankind struggles with foreign pests today thanks in part to free-trade, but we have a very easy time preventing the fuel conditions that lead to horrible fires, if politics dont prevent these prudent management activities from being carried out properly.  


Flora and fauna and birds and bees and rabbits and deer love the sound of a chainsaw.  Thats the sound of a vigorous new edge habitat on the way.  from rabbits to cervids to ruminants, the data shows critters concentrate grazing preference to the regen of burned sites rather than unburned if given free choice. 



 It is 50 years of starry eyed earth firsters chaining themselves to equipment and lobbying  government to block forest operations that shoulder an awful lot of blame for the mess theyre in out west.  We here dont waste food and dont waste trees.  If loggers and forestors werent locked out by eco warriors, standing dead timber would have been harvested and utilized by humanity long before it could contribute to wildfire.  Small controlled fires would have been conducted all along, denying the wildfires their birthrights.  


Eco-warriors have been blaming loggers for everything forever and still arent taking credit for what they prevented us from preventing.. so its a real sore spot around here, the pot calling the kettle black.  There are a number of professional wildland firefighters on this site that can tell you precisely how politics has caused them to be laying down their lives to save the public from a mess the public insists upon out of their ignorance.


Indictments for those who ruined a butterfly habitat?  Avenge the butterflies first and the dead men women and children after?  That prioritization doesnt really jive on this forum.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2021, 10:24:39 AM »
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Jeff

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2021, 10:50:34 AM »
The guy is an (fill in the blank) he just ordered the admins to remove a post that offended him. Yea, Ill get right on that. He aint banned yet, but his attitude and  the unknown agenda he is carrying is about to get him beotch slapped. I got no time for (fill in the blank)

As for monarchs, I took this picture and some video this last week. Seems my parts of Michigan is doing okay.



 

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Offline Jeff

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2021, 10:54:28 AM »
I could have sworn there was another reply here I read early this morning or last night and came back to read again and reply. Now it appears to be gone. Am I imagining things? Maybe I should check my meds, oh wait, I don't take any meds. ;D
It was removed because of all the political content. Ill not waste my time with (fill in the blank)s
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Online Old Greenhorn

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2021, 11:13:00 AM »
Yeah, I pretty much figured that, but expected to see the removal noted as it is with moved threads. He was pretty good at making claims of intense work on international levels that came at extreme personal sacrifice of unknown forms. Lots of mystery with that fella that left his comments with a very dubious taste in my brain. 
 OH golly I would love to know who wrote the post that offended him! :D ;D We should give that person a prize. My money is on Mike, simply because of his eloquent verbosity. :)
 OK, lets move on, shall we? ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
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OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Online HemlockKing

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2021, 11:25:33 AM »
The guy is an (fill in the blank) he just ordered the admins to remove a post that offended him. Yea, Ill get right on that. He aint banned yet, but his attitude and  the unknown agenda he is carrying is about to get him beotch slapped. I got no time for (fill in the blank)

As for monarchs, I took this picture and some video this last week. Seems my parts of Michigan is doing okay.


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Sort of related I find it funny how you have these eco nuts that come on the radio going on about letting your lawn grow to weeds and wild flower or the bees will die??? Okay lol . Do they not know Nova Scotia is mostly uninhabited woods? The bees are fine.  They have plenty of habitat. And I like bees too but I just dont buy it or understand their reasoning. 
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Online Old Greenhorn

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2021, 11:33:09 AM »
That reasoning is designed to be effective on the uneducated or the overeducated with no actual knowledge. Unfortunately, too often it works really well. I have a logger/arborist buddy who just LOVES when he is on a job and a nosey neighbor comes over to try and 'educate him' or just complain. He uses basic facts and knowledge to overwhelm them without mercy and asks them a lot of questions about how much of their 'arguments' they had actually thought through. Either they walk away with new knowledge, or they walk away in disgust. Either way, they walk away. ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
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OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2021, 12:07:11 PM »
Ecowarriors are humans too.   Id rather convert them to timber fellers than offend them. 
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Offline Big_eddy

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2021, 12:15:10 PM »
Back on topic.
A 1.7 acre reforestation with 1400 trees and a mix of 6-8 species seems very appropriate to me. I expect the conservation authority has done their homework and evaluated the site to ensure they are not planting on sanddunes or the shield. The species seem appropriate to me. (I note there are no ash on the list ::))

The landowner needs to recognize that the planting is only the first step in the process. The first 5 years are critical. Grass and weed control. Remove self seeded invasives and other pests (prickly ash, grape vine, dog strangling vine). Deer or rodent protection if needed. 

For the next 5-10 years at least, there will need to be active weed control for the seedlings (mulch or mechanical preferred over chemical ) annually, and there will be some loss. It is going to look very "sparse" at 4-6 feet between plants. But once the saplings are established, there is going to be competition between the survivors, which will drive them all to reach upwards. At 15-20 years, you should start to see canopy closure with trees in the 20-30' range. Depending on the objectives of the owner, thinning may be advised. 

At 20-25 years, the original trees should start to self seed into openings and surrounding land. Come back then and we can help you with ways to help them along. :) At that time, you might even consider planting shade tolerant trees (sugar maple, hemlock) under the canopy.

Offline Jeff

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2021, 12:25:17 PM »

 OH golly I would love to know who wrote the post that offended him! :D ;D We should give that person a prize.
Take a bow, it was your's he reported with a demand to remove. :D
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Online Old Greenhorn

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2021, 12:42:25 PM »
 :D 8) That's really rich. So he was offended by my attempt to engage him in meaningful discussion? oh well, not my problem, is it? ;D
I am more interested to read about these 1400 trees going in the ground and how it turns out. That is something worth talking about.

[edit to add:] Sorry Jeff I didn't mean to cause you any grief. I re-read my post and don't really see anything offensive in there. I thought I asked him fair questions. Guess he felt pushed too far.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
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OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Offline Nebraska

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2021, 04:36:16 PM »
Tom some people  can't take being engaged critically.  Funny thing I have "Monarch" safe areas in my tree fields where I leave Milkweed plants just in case  a caterpillar needs a snack..   The Milkweed  that grows in my hay patches,  well  it doesn't get to finish.... I wonder sometimes  as others have mentioned...  just how many of those folks use toilet paper..  

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2021, 04:53:44 PM »
Same here, even though they can infest my pastures I leave milk weed around the edges or spots I can't mechanically control, ya know since we use zero chemicals at all on the farm side of our environmental destruction business. 
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Offline John Mc

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2021, 09:07:59 PM »
Sort of related I find it funny how you have these eco nuts that come on the radio going on about letting your lawn grow to weeds and wild flower or the bees will die??? Okay lol . Do they not know Nova Scotia is mostly uninhabited woods? The bees are fine.  They have plenty of habitat. And I like bees too but I just dont buy it or understand their reasoning.
Actually, it's a problem here in VT and other places. There has been a significant die off bees. It's referred to as "Colony Collapse Disorder". Some of the bee keepers in our area have noticed the problem. It's not necessarily habitat loss that causes it, but improving pollinator habitat is one way of supporting bees so that surviving colonies are healthier and can help make up for the losses.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Online Southside

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2021, 12:05:57 AM »
There is a whole lot more to colony collapse than the media has reported on. A lot has to do with the USDA insurance payment and the commodity use of bees in Almond plantations and such.  Basically it pays more to abuse your hive and let it die than to actually take care of it for the big guys. 

We have a small quantity of hives and it doesn't scare me at all. 
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Online HemlockKing

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Re: Concern regarding reforestation program
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2021, 07:34:37 AM »
Sort of related I find it funny how you have these eco nuts that come on the radio going on about letting your lawn grow to weeds and wild flower or the bees will die??? Okay lol . Do they not know Nova Scotia is mostly uninhabited woods? The bees are fine.  They have plenty of habitat. And I like bees too but I just dont buy it or understand their reasoning.
Actually, it's a problem here in VT and other places. There has been a significant die off bees. It's referred to as "Colony Collapse Disorder". Some of the bee keepers in our area have noticed the problem. It's not necessarily habitat loss that causes it, but improving pollinator habitat is one way of supporting bees so that surviving colonies are healthier and can help make up for the losses.
What difference will it make if my small patch of lawn had a few wild flowers on it though? I think something like 94% of NS is unoccupied woodland? If they cant fare well there then how will a few people inside a town or city not mowing their lawn really help? To be honest though, I see a lot of bees around my area. 
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